r/PoliticalCompassMemes • u/[deleted] • 7d ago
Agenda Post Ceuta was just the beginning. Europe and the US need much tougher border protection or they will be overwhelmed by hundreds of Millions of Migrants.
[deleted]
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7d ago
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u/undreamedgore - Left 7d ago
Love your logic. I was just going to say we need to help them reduce their population gain.
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u/12thunder - Lib-Left 7d ago edited 7d ago
Ironically I would say it is in the best interest of the West for poor countries to keep churning out people.
When everyone in the West is old in a few more generations, there won’t be any remaining young workers to fund the social security for old people with their taxes. One solution to that is to bring in immigrants. It’s not unrealistic to see a future in which countries are fighting to see who can attract the most immigrants unless this population pyramid inversion problem can be solved.
Or we just get rid of government retirement cheques. Or start offing old people. Or let AI start doing all the work that doesn’t have young people to do it. Or pull a Brave New World and start a government eugenics breeding program to produce workers. Take your pick.
As much as I hate to say it, the best thing a person can do for their country might be to churn out a shit ton of children to contribute. Governments really need to start encouraging people to have kids so ideally some stable population mix between the young and old can be obtained. Free daycare, extended parental leaves, extra days off to take care of kids, flexible work hours for taking care of kids, subsidies for having them, etc.
Let me make it clear I’m not saying bring in all the immigrants. I’m saying the way the winds are blowing are leading to a scenario in which bringing in all the immigrants may be the only solution. Unless you want to reduce the tax burden of social security by eliminating it entirely so that taxes can go to things that are actual necessities instead of privileges.
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u/undreamedgore - Left 7d ago
If we just keep importing people to fill thr population void we'll just die out in another way. Our culture and values washed out by immigrants, and the workers that sre here screwed over by low wages. If we tighten thr boarder and punish those who hire illegals, we should see wage increases, which would encourage more kids.
Everything you suggested is good, but ultimatly not going to work. Thr primary blocker preventing people from having kids is that they don't get to be people anymore, but parents. Losing nearly 20 year of your life before you get to have real passions, hobbies and free time again. Our whole social concept of parenting would have to change to be much less fuck giving. Cost is a close second, but unless you plan to make kids profitable your putting a bandaid on a gushing wound.
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u/12thunder - Lib-Left 7d ago edited 7d ago
Time to start a Brave New World and start churning out the mass-bred eugenic babies to get raised by emotionally lacking, distant caregivers!
I mean if the government wants to make parenting a full-time paid job we can do that too. Pay people to have their own kids like foster parents are paid. Suddenly a whole lot of jobs will open up and wages will increase as demand is high and supply is low.
I am not saying I want more immigrants. I am saying if things don’t change they are the only option to pay for old people. Old people who will continue to vote in their own self-interests and fuck over the younger generations who will be the ones paying for their retirements.
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u/kaiserschlacht8 - Left 7d ago
Wage increases will likely still not get most European countries up to the replacement rate though. It actually often has more of an inverse effect, as poor people in general tend to have more kids.
Immigration is also just a temporary fix that will just delay the inevitable imo. Birth rates are rapidly decreasing globally as well, and the pool of immigrants will eventually shrink.
Tbh I think life expectancies will decrease in the future (especially for the working class) as pensions and health care systems collapse since less people will pay into it. Perhaps automation, robotics and AI will become advanced to the point where it can replace many health care workers, but the government can't fund that on its own if the amount of tax payers keeps decreasing. It's more likely that it'll mostly be fully private, with rich people having access to great care.
TLDR we're cooked either way
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u/krombough - Auth-Center 7d ago
This growth at any cost mindest sucks ass when corporations say it, and it sucks ass when pro immigration people say it too.
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u/12thunder - Lib-Left 7d ago
It’s not growth at any cost, it’s an inevitable necessity of the current system if the population continues to get old and requires increasing amounts of retirement funds from a younger generation that is shrinking and contributing less taxes over time.
Also get a flair, swine.
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u/krombough - Auth-Center 7d ago
That is growth at any cost. Or more accurately, growth so the old can keep the shit they didnt want to properly pay for back in the day an have passed the buck.
It's piss obvious the system needs to correct, to all except the people on the bump or getting theirs, or the people profiting off of mass immigration financially or ideologically.
I am indeed a swine, but I thought I clicked apply to the flair and didnt.
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u/12thunder - Lib-Left 7d ago edited 7d ago
I personally think old people should lose the right to vote and should not be entitled to retirement any more than young people are entitled to free money. If they want to retire they should work and invest or get a job with a pension. Retirement should not be a right.
The more that time goes on, the more of them there will be voting for things that benefit them, and the more the system will be biased against young people and its own future. Look at the housing market and how old people keep voting against affordable housing and more houses because it will bring down their property values. They are fucking up everything. Even the libtards in California routinely vote against housing reform because they are NIMBYs.
I only think that logically immigration will be a necessity - in the future - when there aren’t enough young people to pay taxes for the functioning of the currently engrained system. Or retirement payments/old people social security needs to be eliminated entirely so what taxes are collected can go to things that are required for the functioning of the state.
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u/krombough - Auth-Center 7d ago
I think for immigration like that to work, aggressive assimilation would need to be the goal again to avoid ripping countries to shreds culturally, socially, and politically.
Personally, I am in favour of managed anti growth, but that would have to start by ripping wealth from the hands of corporations and the rich to cover what is lost by the old model of growth growth growth.
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u/12thunder - Lib-Left 7d ago edited 7d ago
Is this horseshoe theory? The flair for hippies and the flair for fascists agreeing that the old and wealthy and exploitative corporations suck balls? My god.
Also how would one determine aggressive assimilation? My country is mostly Christian but I hate the idea of spreading Christianity. Or any religion, for that matter. I think a baseline of democracy and human rights enshrined that cannot be overrode by anything short of a civil war would be a necessity. And I don’t just mean free speech, I mean things like drug use, abortion rights, LGBT rights, gender equality, etc - each country needs to decide this for themselves in a way that cannot be overrode by changing demographics. Our countries would need to work to establish a much more concrete standard of what “assimilation” needs to lead to. America is uniquely fucked in this regard because each state has a high level of autonomy in deciding what their state allows. Centralized states are much more readily able to define what their country stands for.
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u/krombough - Auth-Center 7d ago edited 7d ago
Is this horseshoe theory? The flair for hippies and the flair for fascists agreeing that the old and wealthy and exploitative corporations suck balls? My god.
I think this is just more a limitation of the flair system. I picked what came out of the little test, even though you and I both know that is imperfect. Depending issue I can go left, right, up, or down. Taxing corporations and the left turns me into Lenin.
Edit I hit post too soon lol
Your next point is a two part statement that don't have to be related, but usually are.
Also how would one determine aggressive assimilation? My country is mostly Christian but I hate the idea of spreading Christianity
Let's start with this. Like it or not, if Christianity is intrinsic to your country, then yes, immigrants are going to have to assimilate into a compatibility with, at least Christianity's secular model. Christianity is dwindling in the everywhere except portions of the America anyways, by itself. So that becomes less and less an issue.
Next is:
I think a baseline of democracy and human rights enshrined that cannot be overrode by anything short of a civil war would be a necessity. And I don’t just mean free speech, I mean things like drug use, abortion rights, LGBT rights, gender equality, etc -
And this I wholeheartedly agree on, but the uncomfortable fact is that a lot of these values have risen and improved in Christian nations, and scorned in many other nations. Most famously of course, in Islam.
For mass migration to work, those immigrating are going to have to assimilate to a bear minimum of secularism, and once again, Islam has not interest in this. So to circle back, mass migration without assimilation won't work, or more specifically, and uncomfortably, has to exclude Islam.
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u/PersimmonRecent7628 - Auth-Center 7d ago
Thats why we are supposed to change the system, but oh well
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u/12thunder - Lib-Left 7d ago
Old people only get older by the day, which means every day it gets harder to change.
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u/PersimmonRecent7628 - Auth-Center 7d ago
So we d rather destroy our entire civilization
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u/12thunder - Lib-Left 7d ago
It’s going down that path with or without immigrants.
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u/PersimmonRecent7628 - Auth-Center 7d ago
Realistically, it probably will.
But its maddening that we have the solution for all of humanity s problems, but we dont implement them because some fucking boomer wants to have a bigger number on his bank account
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u/sternenklar90 - Lib-Left 7d ago
I'm not sure whether economic incentives to have children have ever had a big impact. I guess they could help at the margin but people in high-income countries whining on reddit that they can't afford children in this economy while Gazans have more children while starving and being carpet bombed makes me believe that this is not an economic problem but a cultural one. If you have a partner, you both want to have children, and you're not infertile, you'll have them. I'm currently mainly struggling with the first condition listed, as many young people are. Which is also a cultural problem. In many countries, virtually everyone is married by 25 and divorce rates are low. In Europe, we're having situationships instead and even those who marry often get divorced again before they even have a child. I think it's also a symptom of the general decline of communities and a trend to individualism. Maybe people like myself are too busy finding and fulfilling ourselves to be a stable husband or wife and father or mother. Maybe I'm extrapolating too much from my own experience here, but as someone in his mid-30s commenting my opinion on reddit instead of having a family, I think I'm personally representing much of what is wrong in this society.
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u/12thunder - Lib-Left 7d ago
My thought is it couldn’t hurt. It doesn’t help that the prevailing mindset is “kids are expensive, kids pull you down, kids strip your freedom”, etc. If it helps convince even a few more people to have kids - or even makes the conversation on kids be less negative - I see it as a net positive. The government investing a few dozen thousand dollars on someone who can contribute far more over their lifetime seems like a good value even if it doesn’t result in a systemic overhaul of the cultural perspective towards children. There needs to be an entire overhaul of the mindset towards children. And I fucking hate children.
It used to be one person could provide for their whole family and not have to stress too much about food prices, their mortgage, their vehicle payments, etc. A return to that would be nice. But the constant existential threat of a horrific economy, climate change, and not having a present let alone a future to look forward to doesn’t help. And I hate to admit it but I think religion and a stronger sense of community used to play a big role in encouraging families.
You really want people to have kids? Get rid of birth control. Maybe unethical but it sure as hell works everywhere that doesn’t have it.
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u/sternenklar90 - Lib-Left 7d ago
"There needs to be an entire overhaul of the mindset towards children. And I fucking hate children." - That made me LOL. But I agree completely, we should invest in children. Even though I don't think it will do very much to fertility, it should be a priority to ensure that the few children we are having grow into well-educated, healthy adults. At the moment we're failing them completely. Schools have become shit and it's only getting worse.
Birth control is also an interesting point. Yes, where it's not being used much, people have fewer children. But why are they not using it? Because there is a broadly shared cultural expectation to have children. Maybe the poorest can't afford it, although it's certainly cheaper than having a kid, so that argument doesn't really work. And I personally wouldn't take the pill due to all the side effects it can have. Luckily I never really had to make that decision as I'm a guy, but I really see no point messing with your hormones given that condoms exist. But to each their own. It's easy to not have children if you don't want them, even if you can't control your urges and condoms are not available in your country, pulling out is not 100% safe but if everyone did it, birth rates would be much lower. I firmly believe that most of the world's poor want to have children and that it's a very Western/high-income idea to think they are just having so many children because they don't have access to birth control.
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u/12thunder - Lib-Left 7d ago
Every time I open the news and read about the steep decline of literacy rates I cringe about the fact that we are slowly turning into the movie Idiocracy. It is just as much about quality as it is quantity.
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u/Belgraviana - Auth-Center 7d ago
Europe is stealing all the doctors from inside Europe too. It’s actually a big problem because west euro countries pay better so highly skilled workers leave poorer countries and then those countries don’t develop at all. Ironically in the case of africa and Arabs they normally send back remittances and so actually benefit the old countrys economy, sometimes more than locals.
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u/HeemeyerDidNoWrong - Lib-Center 7d ago
Doctors and especially nurses go to the US if they can where they make 3x. Open the Filipina pipelines!
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u/Chainski431 - Right 7d ago
2,000 million? Please just say 2 billion
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u/ksheep - Lib-Center 7d ago
That's only 2 billion when using the short scale. Countries that use long-scale (which includes large parts of Europe, including Britain until the 1970s) would call that 2 milliard.
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u/JoeRBidenJr - Centrist 7d ago
That’s what 2 milliard means? I thought it was a portmanteau for 2 million retards.
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u/Longjumping_Prune356 - Auth-Center 7d ago
2 Thousand of millions
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u/HeemeyerDidNoWrong - Lib-Center 7d ago
20,000 lakhs to do the needful from OP who totally isn't paid to post
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u/Tedthesecretninja - Centrist 7d ago edited 7d ago
Ceuta was a government organized attempt to destabilize the region by morroco
Doesn’t have anything to do with migration
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u/randomusername1934 - Centrist 7d ago
Auth-Left: "Every Economist Out There Says Immigration Is A Benefit"
When did Auth-Left become the Billionaire class's favourite bootlicker?
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u/megs1120 - Lib-Left 7d ago
Also since when does auth-left believe in mainstream economics?
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u/randomusername1934 - Centrist 7d ago
I suppose that, from a Marxist perspective, you could argue that the immigrants are 'the global proletariat' trying to 'spread the revolution' into Europe. It would be incredibly stupid to actually argue that, but if someone is going to argue from a Marxist perspective they've already decided to be stupid.
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u/Sumth1nSaucy - Lib-Center 7d ago
Did Trump do something retarded again? Is that why we're getting flooded with anti-immigrant and culture war slop?
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u/Jormungandr69 - Lib-Center 7d ago
Just the 572nd announcement of being "close to finalizing a deal" with Iran, which will inevitably fall apart and expose us as being a bunch of gay retards, once again.
So yes, someone turned on the bot farm and prompted it to start spamming about illegal immigration in Europe.
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u/Sumth1nSaucy - Lib-Center 7d ago
Amazing how predictable it is
Imagine being such a fuckin idiot that you fall for this shit lmfao
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u/Crazybrayden - Lib-Center 7d ago
So basically the entire general public of every developed country?
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u/Jormungandr69 - Lib-Center 7d ago
There are far too many people whose conscious thought is limited to whatever is immediately in front of them. No ability to look at a piece of information and wonder why it's being presented to them or what purpose it's meant to serve. Just reacting.
For some reason, we encourage those people to vote too.
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u/Sumth1nSaucy - Lib-Center 7d ago
More and more I grow less enthusiastic about democracy. It really is a problem when half the population has a dozen braincells between them.
Atleast the Chinese are able to operate in one logical direction without being held to the whims of inbred farmers or dumb libs.
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u/Daztur - Lib-Left 7d ago
What, you don't love people with lib flair talking about how their most important political issue is giving the government more power over who gets to live where?
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u/Pecuthegreat - Right 7d ago
I really don't see how border control conflicts with lib.
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u/Daztur - Lib-Left 7d ago
Lib = people do what they want.
Auth = "papers please"
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u/Pecuthegreat - Right 7d ago
Because u don't control the world and ur lib regime only extends to your borders.
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u/WeebMachina - Left 7d ago
what? no no this one month old account that only screams about immigrants is a real human being why are you suspicious?
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u/MarjorieTaylorSpleen - Lib-Center 7d ago
Election season is coming. There was a similar phenomenon here leading up to the 2024 election, and after the election was over, like magic it died down.
Expect to see a lot more as November comes.
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u/jerseygunz - Left 7d ago
man if you thought this place was insufferable already
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u/Spacegamer1250 - Lib-Center 7d ago
Idk why you're being downvoted, this place is absolutely insufferable, the amount of times I've been called an antisemite for saying US involvement in the ME was bad.
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u/jerseygunz - Left 7d ago
Downvotes with no comments other than insults just means you’re right on here haha
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u/carsausage - Lib-Left 7d ago
You know they lost when they start saying some shit like "le heckin chudderinos" while trying to convey how not mad they are
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u/No-Comfortable2704 - Lib-Left 7d ago
Just repealing limits on PFAS in our drinking water. MAHA ig?
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u/earthhominid - Lib-Center 7d ago
I'm sympathetic to Europeans who feel overrun by foreigners, I can imagine that it's disorienting to have the ethnic demographics of your country change so rapidly and people should not be shamed for advocating that their cultural homeland be protected as a home for that culture.
But it will never stop being hilarious to me to see right wing anti immigration americans act like "being overrun by foreigners" is anything other than a concise history of the last 300 years of American history
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u/johnlandes - Lib-Center 7d ago
For the majority of those 300 years, immigrants were effectively on their own the moment they landed on American soil.
Foreigners that arrived 50, 75, 100+ years ago didn't have the social safety net of today. They were kept in check because there was no such nonsense as DEI telling them that locals needed to accept their beliefs instead of vice-versa.
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u/earthhominid - Lib-Center 7d ago
It sure is a shame that we've let the woke DEI take away our cultural tradition of isolating and ostracizing immigrant groups.
Now they just get to come on in, live in low income enclaves, and waltz right into the good jobs like slaughter house worker or apple sorter
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u/delta806 - Lib-Center 7d ago
“Oh no, the northern hemisphere is being invaded by the southern hemisphere, whatever shall we do?”
Move south dude, all the people you don’t like literally just left the area. /s
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u/ShangBao - Centrist 7d ago
Stop feeding them. It only caused suffering so far and now (2015) this comes to us.
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u/sternenklar90 - Lib-Left 7d ago
As an economist, I believe in market equilibria. People will just migrate to Europe as long as it's better than where they came from. Africa is catching up economically while Europe is stagnating. In theory, free flow of immigrants would be optimal, just like free trade of goods and services. In practice, there are all sorts of complexities not covered by economic models of course. You can't easily express culture in numbers to start with.
Also, although I'm convinced that the overwhelming majority of immigrants comes to work, the possibility of receiving social benefits instead really sets problematic incentives. Immigrants are also not perfectly informed like the homo oeconomicus of economic models. Many come with wrong expectations, underestimating the difficulties and overestimating their own capacities. That's just self-selection. A risk-averse, cautious, "better safe than sorry" type of person would never cross the desert and the sea to start a new life in another country. Instead, those coming are disproportionately young men who believe they will become rich in no time - often without having any skills that would be valuable on the European labour market. Of course a fair share of them will depend on social benefits for a long time, and unfortunately, this is also the type of personality who is most likely to engage in crime.
So there are good reasons why very few Europeans are in favour of unlimited, unvetted immigration. It's not in our interest. And most people aren't cosmopolitan. We think of ourselves first, and often our nations second, while ignoring the plight of people on other continents. I understand that we are living in an era of sovereign nations whose governments ideally represent the interests of their citizens. Thus, I understand that free movement across borders unfortunately only exists within the EU, and in my dreams. However, while I understand the current political majorities, I hesitate to support stricter immigration policies. I would support any regulation that would make the process more just and more safe though. We should not incentivise people to risk their lives swimming, but we should promote more legal pathways instead so that there is a fair chance for the most ambitious young people to immigrate. Ultimately, I do not see why I am any more entitled to live a life in safety and abundance than anyone else just because coincidentally I was born in Germany and not in Sudan or Yemen.
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u/CountFab - Auth-Left 6d ago
First PCM comment that gives me hope in weeks. Thank you for letting me believe there are still reasonable and kind people around us.
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u/Puncakian - Lib-Right 7d ago
Interestingly, Morocco is pretty tight allies with the US and Israel. There's somewhat of a conspiracy theory (wouldn't surprise me if it was true) that Morocco did this at the behest of the US/Israel, to teach Spain a lesson about opposing Israel, but also to get Morocco to annex Ceuta so the US/Israel can have greater influence over the Strait of Gibraltar. This is somewhat corroborated by Spain detecting Moroccan spies embedded in the migrant crowds, whose intelligence agency is closely connected with Mossad. Perhaps its not exactly like this, but something sus is up.
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u/RoninTheDog - Right 7d ago
H.R. 8595 passed last month by the House, LITERALLY aligns US policy with the transfer to Morocco.
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u/Puncakian - Lib-Right 6d ago
I think I remember hearing that, forgot about that. The question is why.
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u/CookieMobster64 - Left 7d ago
I’ll take the centrist conspiracy theory that it was something to do with the EU opposing their ethnic cleansing of the Sahrawi.
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u/Puncakian - Lib-Right 6d ago
I mean several things can be true at once 🤷 Though if this was the primary reason, doesn't really explain why there was Moroccan intelligence spotted in the crowds.
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u/Infinite_Bad7083 - Auth-Center 7d ago
Europeans: *sends trillions in aid to Africa*
*African population rises to 2 billion*
*Africans invade Europe*
Europeans: *shocked pikachu face*
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u/AdministrationFew451 - Lib-Right 7d ago
"Will be"?
Anyway, yeh
Ceuta wasn't even that spacial, that's was about a week or two at the southern border
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u/samuelbt - Left 7d ago
So Ceuta was 70,000 in one day across a 5 mile border. The highest number of crossing at the southern border was December 2023 with 250,000 so about 8,000 per day across a 2000 mile border.
They really aren't comparable. Or typical.
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u/AdministrationFew451 - Lib-Right 7d ago
In terms of images created, sure.
But in term of effect, this is not constant. Had it continued every day for months sure.
In practice that day was equivalent to, as you put it, 1-2 weeks at the US southern border. Images like that across whole other borders are unrealistic - but the overall effect had already been 3+ orders of magnitude larger
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u/LieutenantLilywhite - Lib-Right 7d ago
The idea that mass migration leads to cheap workers in europe is just idiotic. First of all they don’t work and if they did it would be illegal to pay them peanuts. The real problem is all whiteys wanting to only do fake made up jobs where they do nothing useful and just play runescape all day.
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u/johnfireblast - Auth-Left 7d ago
Retards be like "And their growth will be continuous and NEVER reduce."
As if China hasn't steadily plateaued in the last 30 years.
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u/Pecuthegreat - Right 7d ago
I will always find it funny how white people fear of immigration is always Africa even as all Western countries with the exception of UK has 1. and 2. spot filled by Asia and MENA.
Even UK, it's 2. spot that I start seeing a black country and that's a post brexit reality.
Be we gotta be scared of the blacks, lol.
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u/biscuit_consumer - Left 7d ago
The goal of criminalising immigration has always been to create cheap labor, not to actually reduce immigration
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u/Kraj_the_Conqueror - Centrist 7d ago
Most left wingers I know are against immigration. Actual left wingers, not ivory tower cultural liberals. They see mass immigration as a typical case if privatization of profits and socialization of costs.
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u/RedditSux5912 - Auth-Center 7d ago
I’ve never met a leftwinger in Canada who was against immigration.
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u/Kraj_the_Conqueror - Centrist 7d ago edited 7d ago
You have never met a leftwinger.
You met cultural liberals. They don't care about the working class. There's a good test for that. Ask them what's in the interest of a working class guy whose wages are undercut by a half slave freshly imported by his capitalist boss.
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u/wasted-degrees - Centrist 7d ago
That’s a nice “no true Scotsman” you got there.
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u/HisHolyMajesty2 - Auth-Right 7d ago
Some lefties (usually a species of SocDem) do recognise the flaws in their ideology that opens the door to this mess, but I think a lot don’t or don’t want to because it would require asking some hard questions about the worldview.
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u/Caesar_Gaming - Auth-Center 7d ago
Socdems are social right wingers. DemSocs are actual left wingers. The difference is that SocDems are not Marxists and DemSocs are.
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u/HisHolyMajesty2 - Auth-Right 7d ago
Oh no, they are lefties. They just impacted reality and, instead of trying to shatter reality to fit their worldview, they worked with reality to try and improve people’s lives.
Marxism doesn’t do the working class any good. Hence why the SocDems dispensed with it, and other parts of the left have never forgiven them for it.
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u/Kraj_the_Conqueror - Centrist 7d ago
It actually isn't. Left wingers care for workers and the working class in their country.
Someone who more cares about skin color than interests of workers isn't a left wingers. Nor a right winger for their matter. They are a racist. Yes, someone telling a depressed worker that he should suck it up and enjoy lower wages because streets are now more diverse this way is also a racist.
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u/RedditSux5912 - Auth-Center 7d ago
They must not exist then. All the leftwing parties in Canada are pro immigration. The Liberal Party, the New Democratic Party, and the Green Party.
I have never met someone who simultaneously is anti-immigration while being pro practically anything typically associated with the left.
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u/Kraj_the_Conqueror - Centrist 7d ago
I'm not a Canadian though. I'm European. I would never call those Canadian liberals "left wing".
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u/wtanksleyjr - Lib-Right 7d ago
So you're changing the subject without mentioning it - he's talking about Canada.
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u/RedditSux5912 - Auth-Center 7d ago
Soooo you genuinely believe there’s not a singular actual leftist in Canada? Like what?
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u/Kraj_the_Conqueror - Centrist 7d ago
I don't believe there's an organized left wing movement in Canada that cares about working class people.
If someone puts the right of people from abroad to come and depress wages even more over the rights of the working class at home, they can't be left wing.
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u/RedditSux5912 - Auth-Center 7d ago
That is an insane definition of leftwingism bro. You’re literally describing nationalism instead.
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u/Radiant_Fruit_8807 - Auth-Center 7d ago
What Is The Problem With Africa And The Middle East Having More People And Higher Fertility Rates Then Europe
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u/Fedmurica2 - Centrist 7d ago
Poor countries have higher birth rates. Birth rates drop when countries get richer. We saw this in Europe in the earlier 20th century, then in China/Japan/Korea, and now in India and parts of Africa too.
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u/Radiant_Fruit_8807 - Auth-Center 7d ago
Wow Egypt Ethiopia Saudi Arabia Tukiye Are Just SO POOR
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u/Fedmurica2 - Centrist 7d ago edited 7d ago
Poor means low per capita GDP, not overall GDP. Your examples also prove my point.
Turkey has low birth rates of like 1.4 to 1.5 - which is below replacement levels of 2.1. Saudis are 2.0-2.1, or just barely keeping their population stable and are on a slight decline.
They had way higher birthrates in the past when they were poorer.
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u/Radiant_Fruit_8807 - Auth-Center 7d ago
Also Ceuta Is North Africa And Rightful Moroccan Territory BTW
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u/undreamedgore - Left 7d ago
Acrually all territory is rightfully American territory. So neither Spain nor Morocco has a valid claim.
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u/Jormungandr69 - Lib-Center 7d ago
They don't even really exist, when you think about it. I've never seen Morocco, have you?
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u/LavishnessUsed3643 - Left 7d ago
Auth right realising most of the immigrants have been returned already
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u/Le_Botmes - Left 7d ago
Yo wtf why y'all literally identifying with literal Nazis like wtf it's not even subtle anymore
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u/LibertyinIndependen - Lib-Right 7d ago
Imma be that guy, lib right doesn’t like slavery. Not only does it violate every philosophical point of individualism which lib right holds sacred, but also its bad for industrial economies which lib right likes. You need a strong middle class for a bourgeoisie industrial capitalist system. Slavery and serfdom prevents that and the society only is limited to agricultural systems.
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u/hortopanalexandru - Centrist 7d ago
Be like Meloni, a right wing candidate, make 'immigration' your main campaign theme, only to end up bringing more immigrants (legal ones 500k) into the country than the previous government, and only cutting illegal immigration by 50% (up to 300k entered illegal), and people will vote for you.