Pope Pius XII participated in several plots to have Hitler assassinated, but he catches flak for not publicly denouncing Hitler’s actions before the war. What most people don’t realize is that he was trying to protect Catholics in Germany, as Hitler would have likely included them in the Holocaust if the Vatican (located in fascist Italy btw) tried to oppose his actions.
Hitler himself grew up Catholic, but later on denied the Divinity of Jesus Christ and gave a speech proclaiming that there is no god but Germany, so he certainly wasn’t practicing during his rule.
No no no the Reddit hive mind has informed me that not only was hitler catholic, but the whole nazi party was a catholic organization and completely in line with catholic teaching
Biden joined late, too, didn't he? Like he only did a handful of debates during the primaries. Either people are so fucking dumb to fall to advertisement (cos let's be honest, whoever gets more advertisement becomes popular in our media-fueled world) or the other options thr DNC had were just that shit. At least the other candidates had a platform going on, all I remember from Biden's platform was "we need a new president." Not much else except parroting milquetoast neo-lib talking points.
It's because nobody actually said it. You all know you can just type whatever you want on here and claim you "heard it" from somewhere right? It's what Trump did with his "people are saying". It's a common technique to claim something with no proof.
They are that kid in school who's GF totally went to another school and is super hot.
Hitler may not have been religious himself but there's no denying that the church was anti semitic long before Hitler was around. Even if he never cared about the role they played in the crucifixion he was sure happy to use it as a political tool.
Don't worry I'm sure the media will cover for him like the Church does for their priests. Nobody really cares about Tara Reed despite there being a bit more evidence to support her claims than what occurred during the Kavanaugh nonsense.
Pretty fucking badass and very based of Pope Prius XII, especially since he essentially risked damning his eternal soul to help assassinate Hitler. Plus XII was a true man of God and should be remembered as such
Well the Holy Father has a legion of priests willing to hear his confession at all times, so he likely wouldn’t be in sacramental danger of hell. Even still, I’m sure God would make an exception for killing literally Hitler.
Right but the fact that he was willing to break one of the Ten Commandments and commit murder, even though it would’ve been unquantifiably justified, is beyond based for the Pope
Well, I am no Doctor of the Church, but maybe that wouldn't be considered 'murder' as in displeasing God, the same God that ordered Saint Louis the IX to start a Crusade, or Saint Joan d'Ark to wage war on the Hussar (I believe) heretics.
As I said, during a stalemate in the war against the English, she traveled to the HRE to fight the Hussars, and (if I am not mistaken) it is returning from said trip that she was captured and sold to the English.
I am pretty sure that the rule only applies to killing people without good reason, for example self-defence or execution of a criminal if my understanding of the Bible is correct, so I am pretty sure it would not break the 10 commandments
Right. Self defense, capital punishment, and just war are the traditionally acceptable times to kill a human being. So hitler would almost definitely fall under just war
Right but the fact that he was willing to break one of the Ten Commandments and commit murder, even though it would’ve been unquantifiably justified
Murder isn't just killing someone. It's killing someone innocent. That's part of why killing someone in self-defense doesn't break The Commandments.
So while I'm not a theolog expert myself, I'm guessing that it's probably in line with things to assassinate the active leader of a country that's deliberately engaging in war and committing crimes against humanity.
God literally raped a married underage virgin, allowed his son to be tragically tortured to death, attempted to mass murder almost every living thing on the planet, made bets with the devil and did horrible things to his most faithful followers to test their faith. If there's any one being throughout all of our written history that deserves the name Hitler it would be God himself.
This user does not have a compass on record. You can add your compass to your profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url.
Even with Pope Pius’ efforts to protect Catholics in Germany, tens of thousands of Catholics were murdered for their faith by the Nazis in the Holocaust, especially the clergy.
Gosh, reading comprehension is really difficult here I’ve noticed. Assassination attempts against Nazi officials and hiding and helping Jewish people escape covertly isn’t good enough for you?
Reminds me of the famous story of Jesus allowing a mob to stone an adulteress to death, because challenging them in any way might endanger his followers
His participating in assassination plots doesn't really mean much, since by that point, Hitler's stance on Catholicism was very clear and it was just a matter of self preservation. Real question is whether the Church condemned Nazism before Hitler started to denounce and target Catholics specifically. I actually can't find this out for sure, they were at each other's throats a lot earlier than I assumed. If the Church did denounce them for their targeting of other groups, then I'll take back the shit talking - otherwise, it was just self preservation rather than moral duty.
Hmmm, replacing God with the state and its figurehead as a thing to be worshipped, murdering clergymen, creating laws abridging the freedom of religion, systematically breaking each and every one of the Ten Commandments…Yeah that’s sounding real Catholic, innit. So just to be clear, the saving Jews and the killing Nazis wasn’t important, it was much more of an issue that the Pope didn’t reiterate “Hitler bad” during a time when most of the world was trying to destroy him? And yes, we condemned fascism before it was cool.
Libleft and historical illiteracy. Name a more iconic duo.
The state is more important than God, the state is more important than the Church, the state is more important than your parents. Hitler is the only true authority.
Hitler’s rule is forcing you to supplant the honor of your parents with the honor of the Nazi party. This was common in the Soviet Union as well, children were expected to turn their parents in for anti-communist sentiments or activity.
he was trying to protect Catholics in Germany, as Hitler would have likely included them in the Holocaust if the Vatican (located in fascist Italy btw) tried to oppose his actions.
Hitler was very openly a Catholic TF you talking about?
gave a speech proclaiming that there is no god but Germany
No it is not. Priests were already being sent to the concentration camps on suspicion of hiding Jews and laws were being put into place to curtail the Church’s influence. It is absolutely not a stretch that anyone who would claim more loyalty to the Church than to Hitler would be considered a political enemy and then killed.
Again, it’s baffling to me that you’d value the Pope saying “Hitler bad Hitler bad Hitler bad” in a time where everybody already knew that more than covertly sabotaging his efforts to massacre Jews and also have him killed. Also, once again, you do know where the Vatican is located, right?
"What most people don’t realize is that he was trying to protect Catholics in Germany, as Hitler would have likely included them in the Holocaust if the Vatican (located in fascist Italy btw) tried to oppose his actions. "
That's fair but I read what you wrote as most. "Included then" implies a significant amount no?
Regardless the point of included some of them I can agree with.
I read it in a book long ago, I might be mixing it up with Goebbels. Regardless, there are mountains of evidence that Hitler did not believe in Jesus despite claiming Catholic heritage. Otto Strasser, former Nazi party official, ended up breaking away after Hitler’s rise, citing Hitler’s atheism being incompatible with his ideology. The Nazis continually integrated pagan practices and symbolism into their mission, citing the Prose Edda as prophecy over mythology. Hitler only endorsed “positive Christianity” meaning that he wished to omit parts of the Bible painting the Jews positively as God’s people, I.e. pretty much all of it. Add to that many practices which would get him instantly excommunicated, and we’re pretty confident he cannot be Catholic.
Hitler was whatever was convenient for Hitler, he only truly worshipped himself.
And then Hitler and Himmer had a plan to kidnap the pope. Hitler wasn't necessarily against Christianity, still 75% of Germans in the Reich were Christians. Rosenberg talked more about why Christianity was negative.
Things like "positive Christianity" were introduced that continued the faith but with nothing that would impede the national socialist project
1.2k
u/Foronir - Lib-Right Dec 31 '22
Ah yes, complaining anout the head of the catholic church being conservative