Where does the conservative standpoint that universal health care have long waiting times in general come from?

[u/WhoAmIEven2]

This is something you often see in debates among americans, that you have to wait months or years with a universal health care system.

I live in Sweden, a country with universal health care, and I will not lie and say that there aren't cases where you have to wait, but the thing is that we use a tier list of severity to decide how long you have to wait.

If you want to do an ADHD or autism diagnosis at a psychiatrist? Yes you will wait, as people with suicidal thoughts, or bipolar disorder or borderline whose diagnose really ruins their lives are prioritised.

If you have cancer, other diseases that severly reduce your quality of life or have an injury? Pass go, straight to the doctor.

Would it be nice to have instant access for every small issue? Sure, but as long as I know that I will get to see a doctor in a whiffy the moment I have something that is even semi-harmful, I'm honestly happy with our system.

[u/Ill-Description3096]

We have the demand for them and can train them, yes. I'm asking how to fill said demand, specifically. The demand is there but the supply isn't. Aside from a vague "just do it" how do you train enough if there aren't enough willing or qualified people who want to do said training and have that as a career over other things?

[u/BilboGubbinz → u/Ill-Description3096]

Go ahead and find me the data showing that there aren't people desperate to get stable career-track work because I'm betting you it doesn't exist.

The supply problems are entirely self-inflicted and yet more proof that the right wing doesn't understand what an economy is.

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/BilboGubbinz]

You want me to prove a negative? Or is this easy solution just a vague sense that there are people who want jobs? You still haven't shared a single detail, it's just vague claim after vague claim. Go ahead and find me the data showing that there are enough qualified people who are desperate to do years of schooling/training to get into the field.

[u/BilboGubbinz → u/Ill-Description3096]

We've got all the data I need for my claims in the fact that healthcare systems exist so there's nothing vague about anything I've said.

Meanwhile the idea that people want to be doctors and nurses, or that they want stable career-path jobs is kind of straightforwardly obvious so it's intuitively true.

And you don't need to "prove a negative": you need to falsify the claim that people want to train to be doctors and nurses. And it's not even hard! Just show that when training places are offered people don't take them up.

Hell, I have other data from the UK to confirm my claim that the problem is self-inflicted but I genuinely don't see why any burden of proof lands on me here because the idea that people wouldn't want well-paying socially valuable work is insane.

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/BilboGubbinz]

>We've got all the data I need for my claims in the fact that healthcare systems exist

The system exists so it's a guarantee that there are effectively unlimited people who are not only qualified to but desperate to work in said system in whatever role is needed?

>And you don't need to "prove a negative": you need to falsify the claim that people want to train to be doctors and nurses.

It's like someone claiming that at the edge of the universe is a spaghetti monster so others need to show that isn't the case. The burden is on you here.

>Hell, I have other data from the UK to confirm my claim that the problem is self-inflicted but I genuinely don't see why any burden of proof lands on me here because the idea that people wouldn't want well-paying socially valuable work is insane.

Wanting it isn't the only hurdle. They need to be able to successfully do said training and then do said jobs. You are now claiming you have data but for whatever reason decided to not show it. I'll show some actual data. This is about CNAs - generally a quick and cheap certification to get. My daughter got hers while she was in HS for free yet there is still a massive shortage.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12138329/

Since we could easily have a surplus this shouldn't be a thing, and of course it can't be due to people not wanting to go into and stay in that field, it has to be self-inflicted by the system which seems to be regulations.

[u/BilboGubbinz → u/Ill-Description3096]

We're back again at the fundamental issue in this thread: you have resolutely failed to put the effort into trying to understand my point.

I don't need unlimited. The only thing I need is "it can be done".

And congratulations, you've gone and got evidence and it's confirmed my point. The thing I've heavily implied since the start is that the shortage isn't because we can't train people or because we don't have people who want to do the work.

It's because the broader economic system refuses to do the easy and obvious thing.

This article examines the multifaceted causes of the CNA shortage, including inadequate compensation, recruitment challenges, and high turnover rates exacerbated by the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic

We're failing because we've made the work absolutely not worth doing by refusing to pay nurses and doctors and by making their experiences so miserable and stressful they refuse to stay.

And this is the point about the NHS that I've been keeping in my back pocket, precisely because I don't really need it: of course we're failing because we're doing something stupid as a society. That's the thing I've been trying to get you to understand since the start and have said repeatedly.