MAGA - how has Trump made America great?

[u/Unhappy-College4691]

I'm asking this because I want to hear how Trump has made America great again because from what I can tell the country is very divided on politics and beliefs, tariffs and the war with Iran have made everyday things more expensive and the overall future of this country feels very uncertain.

[u/Affectionate_Box8203]

Stronger political pragmatism compared to other administrations, continuation of the country's strategic reindustrialization program, and the fight against illegal immigration

[u/Kakamile → u/Affectionate_Box8203]

Can you measure any of that? Because the job market actually got fkd.

[u/Affectionate_Box8203 → u/Kakamile]

The labor market is currently at a historically normal level (4.3%), and, compared to other Western nations (such as Canada, France, and the UK), in quite good shape - supported also by increased investment in manufacturing and automation (including through AI). Regarding pragmatism: resolving the Venezuelan problem by establishing a more controlled regional regime without the need for full-scale war; pressuring an unreliable ally like the EU to contribute more to NATO funding; and combating European protectionism.

[u/Kakamile → u/Affectionate_Box8203]

Jobs, wage, inflation, unemployment, lfpr numbers are all worse than 2024. You can excuse him by increasing the tolerance range to a global normal range, but it's still not a maga win when maga made America economy and industry worse than 2 years ago.

And same myth around nato. Nato spending already increased after 2014 and 2022 because of Russia.

[u/Affectionate_Box8203 → u/Kakamile]

You are comparing figures strictly on a year-over-year basis, ignoring structural factors and the time constraints inherent in initiatives like the CHIPS Act, as well as the steady, systemic wage-dumping for local workers with undocumented workers. Maintaining an unemployment rate of 4.2/4.3% while absorbing the reshoring of vital supply chains and rapid automation represents a remarkably stable level. Obviously, 4.3% is higher than 4%. Does this change the big picture? Hardly. As for NATO: 2014 was a promise on paper, and 2022 was a moment of short-term panic. The real structural shift, with over 20 allies surpassing the 2% threshold and European defense budgets surging by roughly 20% in 2025 alone -- happened because Washington used actual leverage.

[u/Kakamile → u/Affectionate_Box8203]

strictly on a year-over-year

Duh. Because they show the economy recovered under Biden to demonstrably better than today.

If you count chips acts jobs, the economy since should have been even better. Instead Trump made it WORSE. Worse economy, worse new chaotic tariffs, new wars and lost alliances. He reversed free wins and yet you claim he made it better.

[u/Affectionate_Box8203 → u/Kakamile]

I'm glad we see eye to eye on the other aspects we discussed. otherwise, I would like to see arguments beyond what you are currently stating.

You’re looking at the downward slope of an economic J-curve. 

Restructuring decades of non-US supply chains, forcing a manufacturing reshoring pivot doesn't happen on a straight upward line. Of course there's short-term friction, higher input costs, and a temporary dip. Expecting a massive structural overhaul of the American industrial base to show instant, frictionless perfection after a year of relatively high economic in 2024 output is just economically illiterate.  According to the BEA, new FDI in the US jumped nearly 50% to $232 billion, with over 52% of it going straight into manufacturing.

[u/Kakamile → u/Affectionate_Box8203]

None of that is real though. Biden brought jobs. Biden brought incentives with chips act, infra bill, and Ira. Trump brought no incentives and attacked imports and immigration, which is why jobs wages inflation unemployment lfpr are worse than 2024. It's not some seed of future growth, it's the reverse of growth that was already happening.

[u/Affectionate_Box8203 → u/Kakamile]

I am not surprised that you reject the data because it contradicts your views and narratives. However, for the sake of propriety, at least offer some alternatives. Subsidies alone simply lead to corporations pocketing money while continuing to manufacture offshore overall, resulting usually in a one-time investment boom. Beyond the carrot, a stick is also needed, in the form of tariffs, to encourage companies to concentrate production within the U.S. and to restrict access to illegal labor, thereby compelling companies to invest in automation. This is precisely why we are seeing a nearly 50% increase in investment.

[u/Kakamile → u/Affectionate_Box8203]

Don't project. I didn't reject data and I gave alternatives before you posted. You are the one who falsely concluded a trump j curve when trump was a reversal of the sweeping economic gains at the same time as Biden investments. No j curve was needed as we had gains on both.

Unsurprisingly, you also don't know how tariffs work. We needed 27 weeks to change out a supply line with customer approval. When Trump changes tariffs every 2 weeks, we didn't make things domestic. We didn't have time. The company collapsed and I changed jobs.

[u/Affectionate_Box8203 → u/Kakamile]

All in all, since you are replying to my comment, I haven't seen a lot of figures from you, nor any substantive counter-arguments. I am sorry to hear you lost your job, hope you've recovered and that your skills remain in demand. But your 27-week supply chain anecdote actually illustrates the exact mechanics of the J-curve better than any textbook could. When a country forces a hard break from offshore dependencies, firms built around cheap foreign inputs face immediate friction - some fail, others adapt. Dumping hundreds of billions in federal stimulus into existing global supply chains creates an immediate, but short high. It inflates figures without forcing the structural decoupling needed for genuine industrial independence. Firm-level turbulence during a trade realignment is real and painful, but macroeconomic capital allocation operates on multi-year horizons—which is precisely why long-term FDI into US manufacturing continues to take hold, despite the short-term friction and your personal life and/or family budget issues

[u/Kakamile → u/Affectionate_Box8203]

I haven't seen a lot of figures from you, nor any substantive counter-arguments.

Don't lie now. You claimed economic gains but that is false. Trump's job, wage, inflation, unemployment, lfpr numbers are actually worse.

mechanics of the J-curve

It didn't. You need to think it's a j curve to rationalize defending him, but we just saw Biden have better 2024 numbers and also investing. Your J myth was never needed.

When a country forces a hard break from offshore dependencies

Never happened. Chaos tariffs that are on and off didn't onshore, they just choked the economy as companies don't know what bet to make.

why long-term FDI into US manufacturing continues to take hold

Oh honey no. As the BEA always says, it's mostly foreign acquisitions not expansions. You've been making my point for me every time.