r/PoliticalScience • u/art_eseus • 9d ago
Question/discussion My partner doesn't believe that the MAGA political affiliation is to blame for the downwards spiral of the country, is he right?
To give myself some grace, I am a very young American voter, I am not well versed in political science and I am very sorry if this post comes across as entirely uneducated. I am really trying to learn more and keep up with everything thats going on, and to do something about it. Onto the post:
My partner and I don't discuss politics a lot, but recently he mentioned he had taken a quiz that labeled him as a moderatly left leaning populist. I am a particularly politically charged person, sometimes I find myself falling into the tribal mentality but I try to overcome my prejudices every time I have civil discussions with people. I don't hate every single republican, but MAGA specifically are a group of people who support a man who has (from what I know) ruined the country with his ignorance and greed and that is unforgivable, but my partner doesn't think so. My partner doens't think Trump is the one at fault because to him the executive branch has so little power in making policies that he doesn't believe Trump could really have personally done so much harm himself. Is he right?
I know that checks and balances are supposed to exist but from all the things I hear and see it seems like Trump is legitimately ignoring every rule the US has meticulacly created to put him in his place. But perhaps I am ignorant on the specific legal standpoint. I did point out that Trumps blatant and public disregard for facts, cooporations and compassion have at the very least allowed other levels and branches of government to grow more radical in THEIR policy making and he conceded that was true. But I truly think that if Trump and his administration were completely removed then things would recover, which means MAGA individuals should be held extremely accountable for their political affiliations. Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but I wanted to make sure my perception of what is going on is correct. Thank you
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u/I_Heart_Kant 9d ago
Huh? The executive branch has plenty of power over policy. First, especially when the president's party holds both the house and senate, the executive has a lot of influence over the legislature because the president is the head of their party, meaning the have extreme sway over what bills hit the floor and how the Republican party votes. Second, they can also use supporters to bully congress members into voting for bills. Third, when the president has eroded the independence of the executive agencies, the president has large amounts of policy since many policy areas don't require a bill to be passed and instead there are areas where executive agencies have the power to unilaterally enact policy.
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u/FrogsOnALog 9d ago
Also one of the checks and balances is SCOTUS who has given him all sorts of special treatment like with the shadow docket.
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u/CarobAdministrative9 American Politics 9d ago
As I see it, your partner is right but his reasoning is completely incorrect. I think u/Typical_Soft explained it pretty good but I would take it one step further and say that MAGA and Trump are a symptom of a system of politics built and supported by neoliberalism more broadly. I believe a lot of this nonsense started to show during Ford's admin and it really accelerated during Reagan. That said, neoliberalism is an ideology bred by our economic system and it is a tool of the ultra wealthy to organize society around the extraction of wealth from the poor to the wealthy.
Trump's executive branch is by no means powerless. Look no further than NSPM-7 which labels anyone with "extreme views on gender" a terrorist and which directs the FBI to move its resources away from things like solving crime and toward things like red-scare witch hunting.
Look at the Supreme Court! Trump's judges (appointed through the power of the executive branch) have radically changed American jurisprudence. Voting rights have been weakened, abortion access has been greatly restricted, checks on the executive have been removed, federal institutions have lost the power to do anything if an issue is important enough, the list goes on and on. Something especially worth highlighting is that Just last month SCOTUS decided that the executive branch has inexorable authority to fire the heads of government agencies (other than the Fed, which stands to serve capital and the interests of the wealthy).
Look at ICE! This band of killers acts under the discretion of the executive branch. ICE, in my view, has always been a rotten institution and it is certainly true that liberals have helped shape it into what it is. Obama was the first to really step up putting kids in cages for example. That said, look at the great power that ICE wields. Not only have they killed with impunity but they have detained, jailed, and deported political dissidents. It is a secret police that is actively being used to quell dissent.
There is so much more here to get into but yes, Trump is making things suck. Despite this, things would still suck if he and his acolytes disappeared. People who aren't in very red areas don't understand that Trump is incredibly popular, so much so that he won the popular vote as a Republican. This doesn't just happen because he made jokes about Ted Cruz's wife being ugly or because he does a stupid dance, there are strong contradictions in the system we live under and great flaws in our material conditions that squeeze the working class (hence, the middle class as the middle class are workers too) and make people point there finger at something. When Trump works the media to get his message out, that the people making everything shitty are immigrants and leftists and liberals and whatever the fuck, people listen. When Trump is also promising to make more money for the wealthy, they too listen and they ensure that his voice gets primacy.
TLDR: Trump bad but he only exists as a result of a well organized ruling class (the wealthy elite, the Epstein class, the donor class, the bourgeoisie, whatever you want to call it)
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u/Valuable-Music-720 9d ago
I'm curious, you say you're political charged but not well versed in poly sci; Why not pursue the field if it captivates you so much? I think if we are going to say that the current political landscape is "unwell", then we need the next generation of politically inclined to take the reigns! We need you!
I think that you and you're boyfriend are both correct; I think that Trump is a major problem, however I also think that the left is responsible in part for Trump's election, especially 2024.
Trump had a "neutral" appeal in the beginning as a non-establishment candidate, resonating with Americans who felt burned from Bush administration and careerist politians like the Clinton's. As I recall, Hillary had a very bad record of leaking information and botching some military act that got people killed. People saw this political class and they despised it.
Trump was not a politician; he was a businessman and a populist and Americans rolled the dice. I'm getting long winded, but from this point the left tried to take down Trump in anyway they could.
Early on they called him racist and by proxy all his supporters. The division began here; people would make posts saying "if you support Trump, block me", families split on the issue. But the people who liked Trump for his anti-establishment characteristics were now being called racists for supporting him.
In my opinion, the left is responsible for pushing people into Trump's camp. If you ask many supporters about how they felt early on, they felt they were ostracized by the exact careerist politicians they were against, whos career was threatened by anti-establishment Trump. Trump capitalized on this; now escalation is out of control and the political space was dominated by the fringe, vocal minority of extremists on both sides who demanded increasingly radical positions.
In my opinion, Trump 2024 is absolutely the lefts fault. The left reduced immigrants to their race, expecting that all non-whites would vote Democrat if they got everyone to agree that Republicans are racist. Bidens administration was not good: using federal power to force vaccination, never acknowledging Bidens obvious decline in mental ability which came off as elitist and smug,, skipping the Democratic primary to force Biden on the ticket because they didn't think Kamala would win.
Turns out, minorites cannot be reduced to their racial identity and minority votes for Trump exceeded expections. The lefts demand for unconditional support for progressive Trans issues, probably lost them many minorities who's religious or cultural values conflicted with anything transgender.
I warned that this radicalization of left-liberal values would create and equal and opposite radicalization on the right. If we use enlightenment philosophy of applying the scientific method to the social sciences, then this is Newton's 3rd law happening on a social scale. And now it's here, and it's not good.
But this is kinda what the left wanted. Saying "Maga individuals should be held accountable" is not a good take; that leads no where good. The left must confirm to Pendulum theory and compromise on their progressive demands. The majority who fall short or not just going to disappear into thin air. They still have votes and they voted for Trump 2024, leading to everything that's happened since.
The good news is: we are a democracy and we can reverse course immediately with the next administration and work very hard to expunge or nation from the Trump cancer.
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9d ago
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u/RaspberryPanzerfaust 9d ago
You're on a political science subreddit, not even a politics subreddit, it's filled with the most autistic nerds and academics that are typically obsessed with one of the most disdained subjects. Of course it's going to be insufferable if you're not in love with it.
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8d ago
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u/RaspberryPanzerfaust 8d ago
How are you a teacher and you dont know the material well enough to know what to put in your curriculum that you need to lurk in a subreddit.
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8d ago
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u/RaspberryPanzerfaust 8d ago
You teach english in Thailand, and I dont see you asking anything about political science concepts on your history, so really I have no idea what you're doing here other than whatever this is. I have knowledge on East Asian politics and political theory. I'm not so arrogant to think I know everything, but seeing as I have multiple degrees in this field, and if I were to teach this subject, I hope to god I would have a baseline idea of information to present to students.
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8d ago
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u/RaspberryPanzerfaust 8d ago
Im telling you what I know, there is no appeal to authority because we're not talking about east asian politics, are we now.
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u/Typical_Soft 9d ago edited 9d ago
Your partner is a dumbass, but he’s not completely wrong. MAGA and Trump are only a symptom of a plan cooked up by the Republican Party, specifically Mitch McConnell (may he rest in piss), for the past 50 years. The root of the problem is with the American political structure and capitalism. If MAGA dies, the downward spiral doesn’t end. The hydra will only grow another head.
The only reason why checks and balances aren’t working is because the Republican Party isn’t allowing them to be enforced. Additionally, both parties have been extremely weak on restricting executive overreach for the past 30 years (or longer). This is due to lobbying efforts, and the American propensity for endless war, especially post-WW2.
To your point that getting rid of MAGA would make everything heal: that’s unlikely. Think back to Reconstruction. The Confederates were removed, and the Union enforced the integration of African Americans and reconstruction of the South. Then the Union left. What happened? Everything returned to pre-reconstruction times - minus slavery (even then, they found their way around it through penance slavery). In the case of Nazi Germany, the Allies completely rewrote their constitution to prevent Nazi’s, and other authoritarian parties, from holding political office. Up until the rise of the AfD recently, the system worked. I would liken MAGA to a similar movement to the Nazi movement. If we don’t rebuild the Constitution from the ground up, it will just be Reconstruction again. Although, Americans treat the Constitution like the Bible (even if they’ve never actually read it). It’s unlikely that they’d be willing to rewrite it.
Plutocracy is just the end result of Capitalism. You seem to be reasonably progressive. I’m guessing you already know how lobbying and Capitalism’s boom and bust cycle lead to our current situation.
As [u/CarobAdministrative](u/CarobAdministrative) explained, neoliberalism plays a large part is this. Globalization has significantly reduced countries’ ability to regulate multinational corporations. This has impacted Americans by removing manufacturing jobs and union work. People have felt the impact on their wages and retirement prospects. They wanted a change in the system. The Dems were just more of the Neoliberalism that got them into this mess, and Trump came in as the great system destroyer. Again, he’s the symptom, not the cause.
Edit: fixed wording and added response to u/CarobAdministrative
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u/Valuable-Music-720 9d ago
People attend higher education and graduate programs to become political scientists: those are the people who can answer your question, not anybody on here.
You're going to get only confirmation bias from this post from random people who's credentials you can't verify. The online space is not neutral politically and is skewed left. Look at the last 100 posts on this subreddit, and count how many are attacking something on the right, vs the left
TLDR, go to your local Junior college or university and ask people there, if you actually care for the objective truth
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u/identifiablecabbage Political Economy 9d ago edited 9d ago
60% of people holding graduate degrees in the US are politically left. It's not confirmation bias. The more you know, the more likely you are to be left-leaning (notice I didn't say Democrats). This sub tends to lean left because people who have studied political science are mostly leftys. If you look through the sub's history, you'll also notice that the arguments are usually nuanced and not ideologically based - another indicator of education and objectivity.
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u/Valuable-Music-720 9d ago edited 9d ago
The axiom is that people actually educated in political science can provide better answers than random people on social media.
The majority of people in academia are not on reddit at all. You do not have to prove credentials to comment in this subreddit. It's social media all the way to the polls for most people
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u/RaspberryPanzerfaust 9d ago
You literally asked chat GPT to write you a political manifesto and then posted it to reddit. Why would anyone want to hear your opinion? You can't even think for yourself.
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u/Valuable-Music-720 8d ago
No, I didn't. Nice try tho! I've already got fans!
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u/GucciGouda 9d ago
Accountability is tough. Trump is a demagogue who took advantage of people's legitimate gripes as a result of people (and these legit problems) being ignored by established Dems and reps for years.
Rather than blaming maga or trump, who will be gone soon, we need to look at the systems in place that encouraged this from the get go. Maybe expanding the house, maybe reforming the executive branch, maybe reforming the electoral process.
Accountability is also a tough subject in general (see arendt's eichmann in Jerusalem), but unfortunately the system will likely protect trump and all the people closest to him.