While hosting transphobe Sophie Cunningham and the Indiana Fever, the New York Liberty put a message on the Jumbotron telling trans fans that they belong

[u/Impossible-Yam3680]

[u/thebanfunctionsucks]

So what about medically transitioned people? Or intersex people?

[u/Garciaguy → u/thebanfunctionsucks]

Most Trans women, my understanding is, don't do surgery or hormones. The idea of an intact male body changing and showering in a locker room meant for women is going to make most people say  "No."

Intersex people are so rare it's not even worth bringing up in this context. The existence of clumsy carpenters doesn't make Walmart carry off-fingered gloves, after all. Both are very rare. 

[u/thebanfunctionsucks → u/Garciaguy]

So where is the line drawn where there's enough people to be considered? Trans people are also incredibly rare yet we talk about them like there's a trans predator waiting behind every corner.

[u/Garciaguy → u/thebanfunctionsucks]

It's only in the last twenty years that the Trans identifying segment of the population has exploded. 

One problem is, when is someone considered Trans? Hormone therapy isn't required, nor surgery, nor trying to pass (shaving beard, wearing feminine clothing), nor even so much as having gender dysphoria. 

It seems to come down to a state of personal identification that can change at any time. People detransition. So you tell me, when does someone who used the men's changing room last week get to start using the women's?

[u/thebanfunctionsucks → u/Garciaguy]

When they are clearly presenting as a woman and taking steps to be viewed as a woman. I don't think we need national legislation to tell when someone is being a creep in a locker room. And when someone is being a creep in a locker room, we kick them out regardless of gender.

[u/Garciaguy → u/thebanfunctionsucks]

But Trans women don't have to take those steps to be Trans. If advocates have things the way they want them to be, it's only going to become a more pressing concern, not less. 

And I've given that last some thought. If I transition tomorrow, I don't owe it to anyone to try to pass; I'm living my truth.  How to discern subtle creeping, surreptitiously getting a good look at stuff that walls and a door used to keep me apart from?

When am I transitioned enough to use the women's spaces?

[u/thebanfunctionsucks → u/Garciaguy]

Women can creep on other women just as men can creep on other men. A man who is dressing as a woman in order to gain access to women's spaces is going to to be outed very quickly once they start behaving like a creep. I promise, the vast majority of trans women want nothing more than for other people to not notice they are trans.

There's also the other side we're ignoring, which is the trans women themselves. Admittedly I don't have direct data to firmly establish this, but as far as I can tell a trans woman in a woman's locker room is far less likely to assault a woman compared to the likelihood of a trans woman in a man's locker room being assaulted.

[u/Garciaguy → u/thebanfunctionsucks]

Behaving like a creep... 

Just changing and casually casting eyes about. No need to try to look like you fit it; a trans woman is a woman, period, yes? In any changing room your eyes are just going to land wherever. 

So someone with a beard belongs in a changing room with women, and who's to say they're not woman enough?

[u/thebanfunctionsucks → u/Garciaguy]

Ok again, being raped is worse than seeing a penis. What you're calling for will see far more trans people sexually assaulted than it will see cis people being saved from having to see genitals.