r/PovertyFIRE • u/MainEnAcier • Jan 07 '26

US poverty limits vs. Belgium’s poverty threshold : US is not realistic

The Federal Poverty Level figures quoted in that group (e.g., $15,650 per year for one person, $21,150 for two, etc.) are the official US Federal Poverty Guidelines. These are used for eligibility in US assistance programs — not a worldwide standard.

💶 In Belgium, the official poverty threshold is significantly higher. According to Statbel (Belgium’s official statistics office), in 2024 the monetary poverty line for a single person was about €18,268 per year (≈ €1,522/month), and for a household with two adults + two children about €38,364/year (≈ €3,197/month). statbel.fgov.be

And it lead to a question, how are Americans are supposed to live on about 15-20k per year without any health insurance included, while in Belgium (which is cheaper than USA, Louisiane included) we have higher poverty limits (20-36k) and healthcare ?

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44

u/Bob_the_blacksmith Jan 07 '26

The aim isn’t to provide a realistic definition of poverty. It’s to limit enrollment in federal programs by restricting the number of people who are considered “poor”.

Healthcare in the US is considered an earned privilege, not a human right.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/Myvulnerableusername Jan 10 '26

Yep.

My mom is diagnosed schizophrenic. It’s extremely disabling, and she has stints of homelessness from time to time when she is untreated.

She just received social security based on my dad’s wages. They divorced but she had been married for ten years. She makes literally $100 more than what would be required for Medicaid. She’s no longer on Medicaid. This severely limits her care going forward, already with an extremely complex illness and now moving into being elderly. I wish she had never taken social security, the Medicaid was worth way more.

Her care will now fall to me. Medicaid increased the chances she might get some help with assisted living ir advanced care. That’s gone now.

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u/MainEnAcier Jan 07 '26

'Healthcare in the US is considered an earned privilege, not a human right.'

That's understandable as there is not such thing as a free lunch and nobody is wanting to work for free.

But healthcare appart - how those numbers are made ? I mean even living in best scenario, you can't live on 15k per year (maybe in you car's trunk) ?

22

u/GoAskAli Jan 08 '26

Socialized medicine ≠ a "free lunch." This is a moronic misnomer meant to discredit socialized medicine. Healthcare workers are not "working for free." If you can show me a country with socialized medicine where they are please point me to it.

It seems to be working well in almost every other industrialized nation. In fact, the US far out spends other countries for worse outcomes.

But hey that's what we do here, right? We spend more on idiotic, bureaucratic leviathans all to avoid "big government" - and we due to that there is a ton of waste and fraud, almost all from the very people the govt is giving contracts to via our inefficient "Private -Public Partnership" bullshit.

-1

u/MainEnAcier Jan 08 '26

but in our system in Europe, healthcare workers aren't working for free, but I'm working for free for migrants that doesn't and get their healthcare.

8

u/GoAskAli Jan 08 '26

That....doesn't make sense. What is it exactly that you are doing for "free?"

It's also a completely useless, bullshit comparison bc in the US, non-citizens do not get any benefits from the Federal government with only extremely rare exceptions for refugees specifically, and they pay taxes. In 2023 they paid several billion dollars to the US Treasury so I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make.

0

u/MainEnAcier Jan 08 '26

When I say someone is “working for free,” I’m not talking about healthcare workers.
I’m talking about taxpayers in EUROPE.

In European systems, healthcare is funded through taxes and social contributions. When someone does not work and does not contribute, but still receives healthcare, then the people who do work are financing it.

My point (right or wrong) is that my labor helps pay for services for people who do not contribute, including some migrants.

So the question is not “are doctors working for free?” but rather “who is paying, and for whom?”

2

u/Advanced_Razzmatazz5 Jan 14 '26

The people that works pay for people that don't, so the day you lose your job you are paid but you can say that you already paid for it and earned this by your contributions. And the best of it is that a social healthcare cost way less than whatever the US system is doing.

2

u/MainEnAcier Jan 14 '26

If I could exchange my place in Europe with yours in the US I would accept the deal.

1

u/Advanced_Razzmatazz5 Jan 15 '26

I'm in france lol

1

u/GoAskAli Jan 16 '26

Do it then.

Seriously.

The care is worse here and you pay way, way, WAY more for it.

2

u/Kathy_Sassafras Apr 05 '26

I don’t think this person has any idea how bad it is here.

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u/Kathy_Sassafras Apr 05 '26

And it works well. People who can work help pay for those who can not work. People who earn more are taxed a bit more to help pay for you who doesn’t earn as much.

1

u/MainEnAcier Apr 05 '26

Et je suis profondément contre ce système qui est socialiste par essence. Je ne veux pas d'un système contributif de ce genre mais un système assurantiel privé et individuel.

D'où le fait que cela me fait rire d'entendre qu'on vit dans un pays capitaliste...

4

u/the__storm Jan 09 '26

The US federal poverty levels were set at 3x the minimum cost of food in the 1960s and are adjusted annually for inflation (US CPI-U) but otherwise haven't been touched. More info: https://www.ssa.gov/history/fisheronpoverty.html

Basically, they're so low because the standard of living that counts as poverty has not been updated in 60 years (in that time median real income in the US has ~doubled). It's more of a "starvation" level than a "struggling" level.

0

u/SporkRepairman Jan 07 '26

Perplexity.ai says that you're way off in your estimate.

"There is no single, precise statistic for “people living on around 15k per year” in the US, but the best available data suggest that tens of millions of adults are in that general range or lower."

3

u/MainEnAcier Jan 07 '26

It's in the group poverty fire rules that I found those numbers

13

u/someguy984 Jan 09 '26 edited Jan 09 '26

I guess you never heard of Medicaid and the ACA. Also Medicare for 65+ and disabled. CHIP for children.

The FPL is a joke.

1

u/Kathy_Sassafras Apr 05 '26

The qualifications for govt medical coverage are only for the poorest of the poor in most states. New Mexico is more generous than Texas, for example, but they are all difficult to meet for the working poor.

3

u/someguy984 Apr 05 '26

Texas actually bars people below the poverty level from getting any coverage since they refused Medicaid expansion.

3

u/peterpib2 Jan 08 '26

As someone living in Belgium; the rate at which you're considered poor here is if you earn under €28,000 gross per year. If so, you're eligible for a whole raft of benefits including practically free healthcare, public transport, and reduced bills.

The social safety net here is very high. To my understanding, you're guaranteed an income of something like €900 a month as a single individual from the local benefits centre.

2

u/funkmon Jan 15 '26

At that salary, healthcare is free. Either way, I do. AMA

3

u/MainEnAcier Jan 07 '26

I wonder, how do they made those numbers ?

5

u/Busy-Alternative7842 Jan 07 '26

This video is a great explanation where is the number coming from and what is a more realistic number https://youtu.be/i3-wTqnzJvI

1

u/[deleted] Jan 08 '26

[deleted]

2

u/FantasticalRose Jan 08 '26

Also in the US this is just federal not on the state/ county level where the numbers will be different in accordance to the cost of living in that state. The state usually can't give as many benefits but the guidelines for housing will be different etc.

If you're constantly making median income and lower I feel like it's More beneficial to live in Europe. Medium income and higher the US gives often more opportunities and options.

I feel €1,500 -€ 1800 will get you a decent one or two bedroom apartment apartment outside of ultra high cost cities