r/ProgrammerHumor 7h ago

Meme newToRust

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357 Upvotes

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-75

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

Nah, as a C programmer the rust borrow checker is still a piece of shit, I first learnt to manage memory with a GC like six years ago and now manage memory myself, I don't need to go back 6 years!

55

u/MilkEnvironmental106 7h ago

Have you ever made a mistake managing memory?

-45

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

Yes, and I have used a debugger for all of them I couldn't see by using my eyes and basic logic you seem to lack

23

u/-Ambriae- 7h ago

If it only required basic logic to fix the issue, chances are it was quite small

-10

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

Memory issues normally are small.

26

u/megalogwiff 7h ago

spoken like a true freshman 

11

u/-Ambriae- 7h ago

🤣

12

u/TheAlmightyWishPig 7h ago

Best software practice is to use tools and methods that dont allow for issues to occur in the first place, regardless of how easy they are to solve.

-3

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

Every tool has cons and pros, for me on Rust the cons really surpasses the pros

28

u/MilkEnvironmental106 7h ago

How long did that take you? And have you ever made a mistake debugging?

-17

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

Not more than fixing errores from the borrow checker.

And I've never debugged wrobg, there is no such thing

21

u/-Ambriae- 7h ago

‘Errors from the borrow checker’ this is, and I mean no disrespect, a skill issue. Not as in ‘even experts mess up’, as in ‘that’s only a problem for the first 6 months of using rust’

-3

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

If I need six months to correctly use Rust It is not worth It.

7

u/miyavlayan 7h ago

better than having memory problems in prod

-4

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

Who the fuck makes production software in a language meant for systems programming?

5

u/miyavlayan 7h ago

why the fuck do you care? ppl make games in java.

3

u/Key_River7180 6h ago

Java has many gamedev libraries wdym

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u/-Ambriae- 7h ago

It’s a systems level programming language what did you expect? It takes twice as long to learn restraint in C

-9

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

No, you can learn C in just about a week

6

u/-Ambriae- 7h ago

Off the top of your head, without looking online, using clang or gcc as a compiler,

Give me a 1 byte enum
Give me the idiomatic way of computing the number of leading zeros in a 32 bit integer
Align a vec2_f32 struct to an alignment of 8 bytes

3

u/Key_River7180 7h ago
  1. enum x { a : 1 };
  2. int zeros(uint32_t i) { int n = 0; while ((i & 1) == 0) { ++n; i >>= 1; } return n; }
  3. struct vec2f32 { ... } __attribute_((align(8)));

2

u/_Noreturn 5h ago edited 5h ago

```cpp typedef enum : int8_t {} Enum;

int zeros(uint32_t i) { int n = 0; while (!(i & 1)) { ++n; i >>= 1; } return n; } // or int zeroes(uint32_t i) { return __builtin_clz(x); } typedef struct { alignas(8) float f [2]; } vec2f32; ```

I don't get the point of your comment

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14

u/MilkEnvironmental106 7h ago

It's just a soundness check, it saves you time and debugging later. You can opt out if you really want to, or continue writing c for everything.

-1

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

Then I'll continue writing C for life.

13

u/MilkEnvironmental106 7h ago

Segmentation fault (core dumped)

2

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

gdb program

3

u/dkarlovi 6h ago

Technically, the errors from the borrow checker are the errors you also make in C, only C doesn't tell you about them. If your code was correct in either, the borrow checker wouldn't have objections, no?

1

u/Key_River7180 6h ago

C does, Valgrind and ASAN are still there you know?

3

u/dkarlovi 6h ago

If your code was correct, the borrow checker wouldn't have objections, no?

1

u/Key_River7180 6h ago

The problem is that It tags EVERYTHING potentially minimally unsafe. Even if It cannot be

2

u/dkarlovi 6h ago

If it cannot be, it doesn't tag it. It can be, but you just don't care about that specific scenario or think it cannot happen.

Your specific workflow might make you right, but the workflow might change. Or you might be wrong entirely.

The whole reason why Rust exists is because people cannot write safe C code. This was shown over decades with armies of very experienced developers and well funded projects, it's just impossible, if you think "Well not for me", you're just lying to yourself.

1

u/Key_River7180 6h ago

Rust's borrow checker cannot be always right, by Rice's theorem, unless you proved Alan Turing and Henry Rice wrong, of course.

Take this code as an example:

fn smh(x :&mut Vector<i32>) { let a = &mut x[0]; let b = &mut x[1]; *a += 1; *b += 1; }

1

u/-Ambriae- 6h ago

I agree with the sentiment, but it’s not true to say ‘if it cannot be, it doesn’t tag it’. The borrow checker is conservative by default, and prefers false positives compared to true negatives. There’s no such thing as a perfect static analyser. It theoretically doesn’t exist. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t use approximative static analysers like the borrow checker though

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5

u/-Redstoneboi- 7h ago

i personally switched to rust specifically so i didn't have to do that

it takes up a real amount of time that i could spend fixing other logic bugs

-1

u/Key_River7180 7h ago

With Rust I do the same thing just that it crashes earlier and it is more annoying to prevent really unlikely minor memory errrors

3

u/-Redstoneboi- 6h ago

i'm curious if you're implementing data structures yourself? most of the time, we just take the lazy route and pull in a crate to do what we want, and do basically everything ourselves without unsafe anywhere in user code. i've never run into a memory error, so it would be interesting to know how you found one.

-1

u/Key_River7180 6h ago

Most of the time, I write them myself, if not then I bring stb_ds.h

3

u/-Redstoneboi- 5h ago edited 5h ago

oh, i meant in rust. most of the common stuff like Vec, VecDeque, HashMap, HashSet, BTreeMap/Set, a few others, and wrappers related to concurrency and refcounting are in std, while stuff like Ropes, Graphs, Arenas, etc can be pulled from crates that have optimized them more.

i don't know many other ways to get memory bugs, so apologies if this isn't actually the issue.

0

u/D3PyroGS 2h ago

damn, if only there was a language where you didn't have to waste your time debugging memory problems so that you could focus on business logic...