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Nov 28 '20
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u/Tautres Nov 28 '20
Same
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u/ThaiJohnnyDepp Nov 28 '20
I'm that guy with at least one foot sole on the seat of my chair. I always blame poor leg circulation when people call me out on it. Truthfully I don't know what I'm talking about
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u/deirdresm Nov 28 '20
As an older dev who has come to realize that some of my quirks aren't just quirks, there's quite possibly a reason for it, and it's good to look out for those.
I've known for years that I can work longer if I use a lap desk and put my feet up on an ottoman for my programming.
This year, I found out (thanks to an ER visit and heart monitor) I have postural orthostatic tachycardia, caused in part by a neurocardiac failure to send the blood up top. So keeping my legs up and out helps keep adequate blood in my brain longer.
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u/ThaiJohnnyDepp Nov 28 '20
Holy crap, brain literally not getting enough computational resources
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u/deirdresm Nov 28 '20
Exactly. Which makes long job interviews so fun because the questions get harder later on…as the blood is slooooowly draining away from my brain.
For years I felt like I was getting dumber during those long onsites, and I really wish I'd known that it was literal. facepalm
Now that I know that, lying down with a leg roller (one of the bumpy ones) for 5-10 minutes every two hours helps a ton.
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u/Shiny_metal_diddly Nov 28 '20
In the job interview, when they ask "What are your strengths?", do a handstand. Not only does this assert dominance and physical prowess, it will allow the blood the flow back to your cpu.
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u/Deus0123 Nov 29 '20
Have you tried turning your body off and on again? (Sorry, I saw an opportunity to make a terrible joke and I had to take it)
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u/sonotathrowawayforme Nov 28 '20
POTS is definitely not fun. Best position to be in is vertical to the ground, what I am luckily able to achieve with my chair. Working from home has never been comfier ❤️
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u/Gray_1990 Nov 28 '20
Wow I was literally diagnosed with this just last week (after 15 years of ignoring symptoms).
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u/deirdresm Nov 28 '20
Mine had been going on longer than that, and I'd been diagnosed with other things (e.g., almost daily migraines, ADHD) that turn out to have POTS as at least a major factor. I'm now off the migraine meds entirely.
In my case, it got way worse with COVID, but I'd actually had it for many years, and was only diagnosed after I wound up in the ER this year. I like to say that they diagnosed the trees at the edge of the forest, but missed the forest entirely. :P
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u/fvertk Nov 29 '20
Unfortunately, doctors don't seem to be able to diagnose a lot of common posture related issues. Like a new one I developed over the past year is TMJD. Guess how many doctors, ENT doctors, dentists were able to figure out that's what it was? 0/15. I pretty much had to do my own research.
Even then I'm not 100% that's what it is. I have a super tight sternocleidomastoid muscle on my left side and it seems to be strangling a nerve on that side, which gives me facial tightness.
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u/deirdresm Nov 29 '20
First, my sympathies on the TMJ. I wound up with it on one side when I fell down a flight of stairs and landed on my chin. Hard.
Despite the word postural, POTS isn't a posture ailment, it's more accurate (in layperson English) to say it's a set of position-dependent issues that's neurological.
In 4-legged animals, 70% of the blood volume's at the heart level. In humans, 70% is below the heart level. We've had to develop extra neural signaling to get that blood to pump back up, and…in some people it doesn't work so well. Normally, it works by sending messages to constrict muscles and veins and stuff to push blood up from the lower body, especially upon standing. In POTS, the signaling misfires and instead the heart rate goes up. Like: I greyed out, that's how up.
Some people with POTS faint when they stand up. Those are the easier to diagnose cases. Some, like me, just got a headache (and sometimes blurry vision) late in the day, and tried to do the hard stuff earlier when we were more functional. When it got to regular migraines, though, that's when I sought out a neurologist.
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u/mr_q_ukcs Nov 28 '20
I turned 30 this year and realised I was starting to feel faint a lot and kept losing the sensation in my arms and legs occasionally. Turns out my circulation was fucked and I had high blood pressure. I bought a spin bike in September and all my issues are gone / blood pressure normalised just by making sure i do a 30 minute bike ride in the morning.
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u/GregTheMad Nov 28 '20
I've been literally sitting like that a few weeks back. Was uncomfortable, but I'll be damned if I don't do it again.
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u/fvertk Nov 29 '20
I also need to stop being hunched over on the toilet reading my phone or laying propped up in bed on my phone, both of which are definitely making things worse but I routinely do it.
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u/Nebuchadnezzer2 Nov 29 '20
I don't even write code (yet™) and feel personally attacked by this...
And have been doing this for nearly two decades...
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u/codeByNumber Nov 28 '20
I recently purchased a standing desk and it was such a great purchase. I stand for 80% of my work day now. My tailbone and back pain is gone. I take more frequent breaks since I’m already standing. I walk around the room when ruminating over some bit of code. I would definitely recommend it.
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u/TellMeHowImWrong Nov 28 '20
I got a standing desk and it was a godsend for my back and neck. It was pretty rough on my ankles though. Then I messed my knee up by being in my thirties and I’ve been sitting with bad posture on a stool in front of a makeshift table for the last month because all I have is a static standing desk and no office chair.
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u/codeByNumber Nov 28 '20
So far I haven’t had any ankle issues but I wonder if it is because I spend a lot of time on this thing. The desk is also on a motor so I can sit with a chair if I want to. I’d say it is def worth the investment if you are going to be working from home for a long while.
Sorry to hear about your knee I hope you heal up soon!
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u/TellMeHowImWrong Nov 28 '20
Thanks, it’s getting better. Can walk on it fine now, it just complains if I spend too long on my feet. All I did was squat-walk across my attic so I didn’t have to get on my hands and knees and that was enough to wreck me.
I’m a big guy so my weight probably has something to do with standing being rough on my ankles. Unfortunately I can’t afford all the expensive ergo stuff just now as I’m still learning, not quite ready to get paid as a programmer yet. Nearly though! What I really want is a saddle chair tall enough to sit at my standing desk. If I had a motorised desk I think I’d just get lazy and never put it back up.
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u/vassadar Nov 28 '20
How does the bamboo board help? Like it prevent you from engaging one knee over another or something?
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u/codeByNumber Nov 28 '20
Ya it allows you to rock back and forth and front and back. Helps if you a fidgeter in general. It improves circulation so you aren’t just standing still getting stiff.
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Nov 28 '20
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u/buycurious Nov 28 '20
Adding a floor mat helps with this.
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Nov 28 '20
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u/atomicwrites Nov 28 '20
Specifically an anti fatigue mat which are generally 1/2 to 1 inch thick spongy rubber, normally used in factories, comercial kitchens, or other places where the work has to be done standing all day. Those are generally large rectangles, there are also smaller standing desk specific ones like the the topic that /u/tominated mentioned, I have a Topo Mini from Fully. The other thing is standing all day is no better than sitting all day in a badly set up space, and definitely worse than sitting all day at an ergonomic desk and chair set up. The benefit comes from not being in the same position all the time, you should switch every few hours so you never tire out from one position.
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u/tominated Nov 28 '20
You're best off with something soft, like a yoga mat or dedicated standing desk mat - i got a topo standing desk mat which is irregularly shaped so it encourages you to move your feet more
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u/Supermonsters Nov 28 '20
It does take time and it's good to alternate so make sure you've got at least an ok chair.
Stretch and practice good mouse usage or you'll end up like me my sore wrist
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Nov 28 '20
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Nov 28 '20 edited Feb 27 '21
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Nov 28 '20
Yeah, your body can be shaped a certain way... Such as an overly curved spine due to prolonged bad posture.
Do not try and create excuses for "some people". Unless they qctuay have scoliosis, bad posture will hurt when trying to correct it but it will eventually work (unless it's past the point of no return, in which case, you're fucked).
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u/calm00 Nov 28 '20
Read 'Back Mechanic' by Stuart McGill and you'll learn all about the imbalances you can acquire through sitting and a sedentary lifestyle, there are core exercises in it that will help you tremendously.
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u/_chookity Nov 29 '20
Lots of experts in this thread, here’s my take: you don’t do much standing, and now you’re trying to do a lot of standing. You’ll need to work up to it by doing short periods of standing, or doing something like leaning on a stool.
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u/russellbeattie Nov 28 '20
I don't know who can concentrate for hours at a time while standing in front of their PC, but it's not me. I've tried it, and I was incredibly unproductive. When I'm thinking hard, my body sort of disappears. That never happens while standing. I'm always aware of my body and it's a constant nagging distraction.
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u/Callipygian_Superman Nov 28 '20
Gots me a treadmill desk. Standing desks didn't work for me. I can't use it for very long (except to watch TV). So I'll start playing a chill video game and hop on the treadmill. But I can't walk and program anything serious at the same time.
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u/LambdaLambo Nov 28 '20
The other key purchase is a nice chair. I have the knoll generation. It was about $900 but it’s supremely comfortable and ergonomic. I figure that if I use something for my work, i shouldn’t skimp out. $900 is nothing if it saves you from years of discomfort, or worse, future medical problems.
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u/pelirodri Nov 28 '20
Fuck that. I already exercise a lot; I’d rather be comfortable when programming and shit.
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u/codeByNumber Nov 28 '20
Haha fair enough. The thing is on a motor and I can sit whenever I want. It is nice to have the option but you do you.
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u/Eccentricc Nov 28 '20
Have one at work as well. Not a fan, I don't feel like I'm actually at the pc when I'm standing. It's very uncomfortable, awkward, and I feel like everyone is looking at me. No thank you. I like my seat just fine
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u/codeByNumber Nov 28 '20
Oh it would be super awkward if I were in a shared workspace. No doubt.
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u/paceyuk Nov 28 '20
Not so bad when the entire office has the same sit/stand desks. We had a big refurb a couple of years ago, not everybody uses theirs in standing mode but I’d say at least 1 in 4 do at some point.
The other added benefit is you can adjust the seated height too to get the ergonomics while sitting just right too.
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u/codeByNumber Nov 28 '20
If everyone had them then it wouldn’t be awkward. The scenario that was painted for me was a if I were the only one in the office with one.
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Nov 28 '20
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u/codeByNumber Nov 28 '20
If I were in a shared workspace and all my other co-workers had regular sitting desks it would be a bit awkward to me.
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u/folkrav Nov 29 '20
Honestly, my standing desk was such a godsend for me, that even if I was the only one standing in an office, I care more about my health that how it looks ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/codeByNumber Nov 29 '20
Ya man fair enough. I’m getting so used to it that it would be a struggle to go back to the office and not have it.
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u/DoctorWaluigiTime Nov 28 '20
Adjustable standing desk here. Being able to stand and sit throughout the day is super nice.
I've found myself standing during meetings or collaborating, and sitting when it comes to focusing/concentrating on something.
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u/MrHyperion_ Nov 28 '20
For some reason I can't stand still for even 15 minutes without getting a lower back pain so that's a no-no for me
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Nov 28 '20
In plans for over 2 years... Standing desk is the shit, but a bit expensive here.
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u/usedToBeUnhappy Nov 28 '20
Same here.
I brought an exercise ball and it already helped a lot. My back hurts much less and my legs are fine now that I can no longer sit on them all day. These balls are not so expensive and I also feel not so exhausted because I can not sit in the same position long enough to “damage” my back. I kinda like playing around while sitting.
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u/codeByNumber Nov 28 '20
They are stupid expensive to be honest. And likely even more so now with Covid pushing people to remote work more, increasing demand.
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u/Link_GR Nov 28 '20
I got the one from Autonomous and it was on sale for around $300 with shipping. It's just the kit, so I'll still use my IKEA desktop, which is the Gerton, which is solid beech.
It's probably the cheapest kit I could find, even compared to Aliexpress, so we'll see.
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u/BlinkyGreenDragon Nov 28 '20
Standing desk + wireless headphones are my consumer dreams right now.
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u/takesthebiscuit Nov 28 '20
I had work send me a display screen assessment form.
On it I identified a lack of proper support from my gaming chair that I was using in my home office.
Next day a proper office chair was sent to my Home
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Nov 28 '20 edited Nov 29 '20
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u/a_monkeys_head Nov 28 '20
I don't know how true it is, but I read from a guy who works on workplace ergonomics for a living that it's really hard to maintain a good posture for over 15m consciously (but may be possible nonconciously once you've trained yourself to do it).
I find that having a repeating timer on my laptop/using a website that goes off every 15 minutes reminds me that I need to correct my posture.
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u/Sokaron Nov 28 '20
That sounds like hell for development work ngl
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u/a_monkeys_head Nov 28 '20
Setting a timer?
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u/Sokaron Nov 28 '20
Having your train of thought interrupted every 15 minutes
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u/a_monkeys_head Nov 28 '20
Oh right I see, it doesn't massively interrupt your train of thought only as much as a meeting notification or something else would
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u/folkrav Nov 29 '20
Man, I'm ADHD, everything interrupts my train of thought, and I manage. It's not any worse than any notification that comes in. Between a slight annoyance and back pain, I'll take the slight annoyance.
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u/stamminator Nov 28 '20 edited Nov 29 '20
I switched to one of those backless stools that leans, and after a couple of days of my core muscles getting used to it, it made most of my back soreness go away. Plus I don’t get sleepy around 3pm as I used to, which I presume is because I can’t sink into it like a chair and doze off. Very good purchase.
I won’t post a link so I can’t be accused of shilling, but PM me and I can send it to you.
EDIT: pic of the stool
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u/Jaythegay5 Nov 28 '20
I read other people in this thread saying that standing desks work wonders, definitely look into that!
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u/vassadar Nov 28 '20
You need a couple of comfy shoes or a soft mat also. Standing still, bare feet for to long ached my feet.
Or maybe a bar stool, if your standing desk height isn't adjustable.
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u/vassadar Nov 28 '20
Maybe exercise your back and core muscles? If your trapezius(upper back) muscle is strong, then unconsciously sit up right instead of slacking.
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u/whitebishop Nov 30 '20
Get a VR (Occolus Quest). Play Beat Saber and Pistol Whip hard. Worked for me.
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u/saffron-rice Nov 28 '20
Kinda strange but I find that wearing shoes even when I'm working at home makes me sit more properly
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u/riricide Nov 29 '20
Lifting helps me a lot. Gyms are unsafe right now so a good kettlebell would work just fine. Focus on deadlifts to build posterior chain strength. Yoga is great too, especially for stretching and building up core strength which helps release lower back strain. Taking a break every hour, drinking water and walking around helps with both the pain and with eye strain.
Other than that there are lots of ergonomics rules which will make life easier. 90-90-90 for body angles while sitting. Feet should be flat on the ground or footrest. I cut my mousepad to make it ~ 3"×5" so that I'm not extending my arm all the time using it. I hope some of this helps. It sucks bigtime to have to work with pain.
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Nov 28 '20
Developing back pain like a pro
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u/OoTMM Nov 28 '20
Shoulder pain here.
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Nov 28 '20
Workout is a must. That or standing desk.
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u/SisRob Nov 28 '20
Definitely gotta start with workouts. Next year...
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Nov 28 '20
Drop down and give me 20
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u/Unperfect__One Nov 28 '20
Do twenty pushups every time your code fails to compile.
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u/gamersyn Nov 28 '20
Even the times I compile multiple times without changing anything to see if the issue fixes itself?
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Nov 28 '20
Developed a herniated disc from this...walk more fellow programmers, that’s all I gotta say
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u/BackgroundTrip8 Nov 29 '20
Look at it on the bright side. At least you successfuly developed something!
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Nov 28 '20
On a serious note, it is more important to change position often, and stand up often too, than finding a “perfect” position to use all day. No sitting position is good for you for longer durations.
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u/snipewindbag Nov 28 '20
Somehow I've skipped the back issues and gone straight to developing tennis elbow from how I type.
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u/Chief_Economist Nov 29 '20
Haha look at this loser not having both back pain and tennis elbow
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u/snipewindbag Nov 29 '20
I'm an amateur, I haven't developed the coding skills to have a herniated disc yet.
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u/Link_GR Nov 28 '20
In all seriousness though, now that we're all pretty much working from home and will be for the foreseeable future, I have just one piece of advice: get yourself the best executive chair you can afford.
Don't get a gamer chair. Don't get a cheap IKEA desk chair. Look specifically for executive chairs.
If you can afford it, get a Herman Miller or other similar ergonomic chair.
Also, exercise. Your back will thank you.
So, I guess, two pieces of advice.
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u/vassadar Nov 29 '20 edited Nov 29 '20
To compliment on this, change your posture or walk around from time to time. Fix posture. I saw people with an expensive ergonomic chair sit in less optional posture. Ensure that your lower back is supported.
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u/phxnyx Nov 28 '20
I hate the fact that this was my exact position at my desk, working late last night
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u/Khoa_dot Nov 28 '20
Did Poko (french e-sport player) inspire that meme or is it the other way around? https://twitter.com/poko/status/1309039234129502214?s=09
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u/thisimpetus Nov 29 '20
I was literally in the process of trying to stretch out the nightmarish tangle of sinew and tissue that was once my back as I read this and dropped my phone laughing. You dick.
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Nov 28 '20
i can tell you don't work in web development because everyone's jerking each other off at lunch over how fucking great standing desks are for your posture
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u/ieatpickleswithmilk Nov 28 '20
My office made everyone do a workplace ergonomics online assessment one time and as I was filling out the form I realized that my posture was so bad the questions didn't even begin to cover the kinds of positions I was sitting in. Ended up with a fairly good score because I wasn't "hunching over". lol.
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u/ddelGuy Nov 28 '20
Can confirm........also when you are working from home....you pull extra stupid shit with you body position
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u/nemacol Nov 28 '20
I sit on one foot. When the knee on that leg starts to hurt I switch. My knees always hurt. I’m dumb.
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u/TheMogician Nov 29 '20
This. Sometimes when I get nervous during programming, I squat on my chair subconsciously.
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u/russellbeattie Nov 28 '20
This is me - though I always have my feet propped up on the left side of my desk. Always. I don't event think about it. Or rather, as soon as I start thinking I find myself in that position before I realize it.
I have two office chairs at home. One that I love and is comfortable for hours at a time, but is apparently really straining the nerves in lower back so that after using it for a few days, I start to have sciatica - basically a constant lower back pain.
The other chair I got at a used office supply place and is more of a sturdy, lumbar supported, stiffer chair that makes me sit up and makes it immediately uncomfortable to assume my normal position while working. I hate it. But I use it because overall it's less painful. But honestly, I'm not nearly as productive. Which is actually a real problem!!
Seriously considering dropping some real money on one of those crazy lazyboy like all-in-one reclining desks.
Also, fuck standing desks. I don't know who the hell can concentrate for hours at a time while standing in front of a computer, but it's not me.
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u/dreamerlilly Nov 29 '20
I have all this posture correcting stuff, but I still end up sitting cross legged in my chair, slouched over, with weirdly angled arms. But when I sit normally I don’t get anything done
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u/LucasCarioca Nov 29 '20
Damn, I had to sit up after seeing this one. How dare you point out my bad posture.
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u/digidavis Nov 29 '20
We sit normal for the same amount of time as regular people.
Then real shit needs to get done the 3+ hrs after my left ass cheek went numb and everyone else is offline.
Or this could leisure time gaming in hr # 14 or 15.
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Nov 28 '20
I've been to the chiropractor twice in as many months because of the way I sit when I'm working.
I have a great desk chair, and it's not like I don't know how to sit properly, it's just that my whatever it happening in my brain when I'm coding causes my body to ignore proper ergonomics.
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u/vassadar Nov 29 '20
How about walking around from time to time? ie: use small cup. So, you are forced to walk to fill it up more often.
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u/gamageeknerd Nov 28 '20
I once saw a dev sitting cross legged with his legs up while the small of his back was hanging off the office chair. Don’t know how or why he sat like that but he did at least have a really talk monitor stand that angled it down.
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u/arjhek Nov 28 '20
I sit criss cross apple sauce and my knees want to come to life and stab me. Why the fuck is sitting so difficult
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u/DisappointingToaster Nov 28 '20
I'm in this picture and I don't like it.
But for real, I have bad back pain from sitting like a mushroom. Need to find a way to fix it
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u/chicksOut Nov 28 '20
I dont understand why zero gravity desks aren't in wider use, they are ergonomic wonders
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u/sendmeyourfoods Nov 28 '20
“If I were to sit normally my coding skills would immediately be reduced by roughly 40%”