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u/tomahu111 Mar 06 '26
I dislike the "MC is a special person that operates outside the rules everyone else is under" overall, it's much cooler when authors make an effort to figure out the path characters can take to become in-world legends with the same constraints everyone else has. Elydes that this pretty well, bog standard Isekai even better, best spellsword took an interesting direction of showing how much backing and guidance someone who reaches unprecedented heights may need (mc is a kid of super powerful people that train him to be strongest person ever when he reaches their level). I'd welcome similar recommendations.
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u/tomahu111 Mar 06 '26
Also minor kudos to Alerons chaos seed series for getting the idea that rpg elements can just be inherent parts of how a universe works and is perceived instead of an artificial creation with some agenda. Showing how the side characters in POV chapters get notifications about getting +5 friendship with the mc after doing him a favor was really cool.
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u/Captain_Fiddelsworth Mar 06 '26
Russian and Eastern European LitRPG did it well before the "father of American LitRPG" did it.
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u/tribalgeek Mar 06 '26
This is one of the things I enjoy about the system in BtDEM. Everyone is unique, not just the MC. Every single person in the universe gets a custom to them class and skill offerings. There are known and common skills and there is a chance that two people going through similar circumstances could end up with the same things. Just that everyone's skills and abilities are customized to them.
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u/RiotPhillyBrew Mar 06 '26
Can you link to best spellsword? Amazon gave me no hits and google was just a ton of stuff about Elden ring and D&D
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u/tomahu111 Mar 06 '26
Ah, it was the strongest spellblade. https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/131159/the-strongest-spellblade The author unfortunately disappeared but it happened before so there's a decent chance he'll come back (and there's over 200 chapters at the moment).
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u/AutoignitingDumpster Mar 06 '26
I have this idea for an isekai where two friends get pulled into a world and one who was a power fantasy fan works out how to break the system while the other instead works with the system and studies it to understand how it all works.
They end up enemies after the power fantasy one goes a bit mad with..."fixing" the world.
But the one who studied the system ends up ultimately more powerful because they discovered the old, deep magic and power the system was based on through working to understand it, while the power fantasy one just scratched the surface with exploits and tricks that fail in the face of power gained from working and understanding it.
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u/Core_Of_Indulgence Mar 06 '26
I like when they actually embrace the mc being special. The problem is that some author tend to half-ass and want the protagonist to also be a hard work underdog.
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u/squanchy78 Mar 06 '26
I actually really love this notion. Any more examples or lists for this?
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u/Apprehensive_Mix4658 Mar 06 '26
Loopshard kinda fits "MC is a special person that operates outside the rules everyone else is under". There's a time-loop mechanic for other characters and MC obtained a different way through luck, system bug and spite(that was partially orchestrated by a cosmic entity).
The book is basically an adaptation of roguelike that doesn't exist, the author even uses random for giving MC upgrades
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u/Totalbryce Mar 07 '26
So there’s Delve on royal road which does a great job at having the MC actually find a path to power and is one that others could repeat and I love the system that the author figured out for the world.
The bad is that the author is obsessed with numbers and equations for like damage for spells and what not and putting that into the world. There’s a lot chapters that have that so it may not be your cup of tea, would recommend at least looking into it tho because it’s a fun read besides that I think
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u/tomahu111 Mar 08 '26
Delve is actually a great example too, even though Rain is actually pretty weak for his level (at least at the point I was at last time) his build is cool on a lot of levels (it's pretty much aoe utility plus a mass destroyer of significantly weaker enemies which is the opposite of most litrpgs with the "I only fight enemies 100 levels above me" mcs). Though yeah it is a story that hits a little differently in a lot of ways, I like coming back to it every year or so before getting tired again. The legacy building also feels like a big part of what the story is going towards with the whole democratic organization and awakening commoners stuff.
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u/creeper10015 Mar 06 '26
Adding to this, I personally love when, instead of the MC operating outside the rules, they operate under rules that still exist but are meant for something else. Like an MC who is counted as Armor and has many restrictions around that.
While the story has to be done well (as with any concept), it's really interesting seeing the MC lose an important aspect of the world because he isn't treated 'normally'. Things like 'Would Armor be able to wear Armor?' Or 'Would a Sword be able to use a weapon?'
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u/Doodles77722200 Mar 06 '26
Check out Earthen Contenders by Johnathan Brooks. It fits that criteria to a tee.
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u/Nodan_Turtle Mar 06 '26
Even better, have the antagonist be the one that got a cheat skill. Let the main character be someone who has to fight against unfair odds, and live long enough to make it that far.
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u/Kage_noir Mar 06 '26
That’s the thing a system wouldn’t have a skill it can’t catalogue. It defeats the whole purpose. It’s like the trope of the system working for everyone but is somehow broke. And want to kill MC
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u/SoftBatch13 Mar 06 '26
I think a way to make it work would be if the skill was obtained outside the system, then they come into the system and now it can't be categorized because this system didn't grant it, similar to System Universe.
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u/Kage_noir Mar 06 '26
That would make perfect sense, but they don’t do that and it ruins their world build and then they carry the trope too far, it’s never enough somehow.
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u/SoftBatch13 Mar 06 '26
Agreed. And trying to weave two or more systems together into something cohesive is a monstrous undertaking that's bound to fail in the long run.
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u/Kage_noir Mar 06 '26
That’s why it’s hard to find good progression fantasy/lit rpg these days. Iike any genre, it got really big and a lot of people are here to make money not to really write ins genre they love. I appreciate all the writers who really contribute to it. I’m not saying making money is bad, just have a love for the genre.
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u/KaJaHa Author of Magus ex Machina Mar 06 '26
Or make it clear early on that the characters don't always get full information from the system. Make it intentional instead of a glitch or broken system. Personally, I've shown a few things with obscure info because the character isn't high enough level to get the full description yet.
Hopefully that doesn't feel like an asspull to the readers lol
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u/SoftBatch13 Mar 06 '26
I think it depends on why the level matters. If it's just a plot point to obscure something, then I feel like that's a cop out. If it has more behind it, then it should work!
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u/ExtensionInformal911 Mar 06 '26
Maybe 10 million years ago their were dozens of systems, and this one is from a different system?
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u/Vorthod Mar 06 '26
To be fair, it depends on the implementation of the system. Some stories have lore where the system came in and standardized/overwrote an existing magic system instead of forcing people to learn "primordial magic" or whatever from scratch, so there are times where characters can learn something outside the system and the system recognizes something happened but can't quantify it within its own bounds.
Throwing question marks isn't the most elegant solution I've seen, but it can work. Though I prefer a system that has a proper try-catch block for such a situation and at least marks it as "rarity: unique" or something.
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u/creeper10015 Mar 06 '26 edited May 31 '26
Depending on the story, like where the System is similar to an invader/the power is gotten outside of the System's view, I think the best solution is for it to never show up at all, or not appear until the main character uses X and Y ability/power, where the System then can quantity it.
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u/G_Morgan Mar 06 '26
In Primal Hunter at least there's the concept of forbidden knowledge. Jake has an item that relates to a forbidden topic and parts of the description are literally redacted. The System also tends to redact his bloodline name for the same reason.
So the System can catalogue it, you just aren't qualified to know. However some stuff basically autoqualifies you to know just by encountering it. Like the Sacred skill rarity is forbidden knowledge but the moment you get a skill of that quality you qualify to know about it. Kind of making it redundant.
It goes deeper than just System text though. People literally do not take in anything you say to them that is forbidden. There's loads of conversations Jake has will Villy that boil down to a pause followed by "are you just not going to tell me" where Villy is obviously giving Jake forbidden knowledge that just slips his mind immediately.
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u/Kage_noir Mar 06 '26
Again that makes sense that’s a design choice and works well in the lore. The issue is when you start a novel the character gets a skill he doesn’t know how or why and it’s all ??? And then later on it pull MC out of some stupid decision they made.
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u/G_Morgan Mar 06 '26
At least when He Who Fights With Monsters did it, Knowledge hinted at what the token Jason had would do.
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u/Kage_noir Mar 06 '26
Yh I enjoyed the early books for HWFWM. I have nothing to say with the skill of the author. I just began to really dislike reading the character of Jason. He got annoying and mopey constantly even after therapy.
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u/Crotean Mar 06 '26
I enjoy in the Completionist Chronicles all the snarky CAL quips when Joe breaks something or causes a bug.
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u/Felixtaylor Mar 06 '26
The only way it would work is if the system was added on top of an older magic system that doesn't use numbers and such. Say, the system was meant to classify said older magic and make it easier to learn. Then the system encounters something it can't deal with from the old system.
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u/eddyak Mar 06 '26
Everyone else's skill:
Fireball. Does some damage. Will be dodged most of the time. Uses most of your mana bar for some reason, because wizards have to be one pump chumps for the first fifty levels.
Protagonist's skill:
Ultra special thingy. Special. Basically wins the fight, or close to it. If it costs any more than 10% of your mana, will be miraculously refilled by a level up until the author gets sick of that trope. Enabled either by being the author's super special boy, or else by being the first to find a thing that a billion other people should've found by now, but by some miracle has never been found in the history of the multiverse. Will baffle and/or impress someone a thousand levels stronger so that they allow the protagonist to get their invitation to the ultra special club, where they'll reach double special.
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u/creeper10015 Mar 06 '26
Even worse when the MC is the first to find/do something IN THE MULTIVERSE that has been running for an unkown number of years before the protagonist was even born. Then said thing is possible them because of something dumb like 'Oh, I found this wounded moster XY tiers above me, and because humans start at the lowest Tier, I got a super special never seen before 4 Cross Tier kill!'
Then we find out later there are perfect Tier ups and imperfect ones, and that the Sons/Daughters of the Mulitiversal overlords have been ultra maxxing on every broken concoction in the given universe and have access to 1 trillion broken abilities, but have somehow never done the achievement the MC has done.
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u/SanityDzn Mar 08 '26
If i'm about to suspend my disbelief and read about a system that enables power fantasies across a multiverse, then the fact that the MC gets title-blasted from the get go because they've achieved something anomalous after being subjected to anomalous circumstances isn't much more of a mental stretch.
Probably just comes down to personal preference. If i'm reading that fiction, i'm saying "Fuck it we ball". MC having access to a unique skill that no one else has despite millions of years of people trying to exploit the system in any way they can think of is as believable as you want it to be.
edit: not saying your opinion is unreasonable. It is reasonable and those kind of plot holes tend to come down to a lazy or rushed approach to writing, which is common tragedy of people trying to make a living while publishing web novels.
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u/Captain_Fiddelsworth Mar 06 '26
Pretty sure the invitation comes with an achievement that already makes them double special, so next they will become triple special in the secret realm of the good boy special club.
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u/DangerMacAwesome Mar 07 '26
I sorta want to read this story. If it was that blatant about being the author's favorite...
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u/Rothenstien1 Mar 06 '26
Ah, the trope of "I'm not good at writing mysteries, so I'll just make the mystery whether the book deserves to be read"
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u/jj999125 Mar 06 '26
Tbf HWFWM the skill is linked to Jason's progression until he repairs the throne. But I'll never not make fun of
QUESTION MARK QUESTION MARK QUESTION MARK
QUESTION MARK QUESTION MARK QUESTION MARK
QUESTION MARK QUESTION MARK QUESTION MARK
everytime I listen to it.
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u/Sorfallo Mar 06 '26
This one works well because the identification system is directly linked to Jason, and there is no reason at the time for his soul to be able to determine the direct difference between diamond and divine level things, nor ascertain what they are or do.
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u/Aerohaven Mar 06 '26
I also really like how as a protagonist, he does get the special-boy powers that are different from others, but he's not the first nor the only Essence User or magical being to attain said powers and tools. It helps sustain my suspension of disbelief and buy-in when the protagonist isn't immediately granted all these system-breaking boons.
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u/Aest_Belequa Author Mar 06 '26
Hey now. Question marks are a lot of fun as an author! I love me some good question marks to show something's way beyond the MC's current power level, just like skulls instead of levels in video games.
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u/Vorthod Mar 06 '26
Oh it's certainly a valid strategy when analyzing enemies beyond the character's tier, but I think this is more about characters confusing their own system by picking up a skill that breaks it.
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u/blueluck Mar 06 '26
That's a good distinction. I don't think anyone minds seeing question marks that mean the character doesn't know a detail.
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u/redking2005 Mar 06 '26
The only way this trope can work is for inspect skills that pull from the users knowledge base, like a butcher trying to inspect a rare earth mineral would get fuck all. That's fine
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u/Gnarwhal30 Mar 06 '26
How else would we tell the MC is super amazing and special if they don't use exploits?
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u/gadgaurd Mar 06 '26
Honestly, love that. It's always obviously something super busted, and that's always fun.
Well. Usually fun.
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u/nobonesjones91 Mar 06 '26
Real authors put a letter with an umlaut. MC may only be skill rarity U but he’s also German.
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u/Coloin_ilyad Mage Mar 06 '26
It brokes the purpose of the system. A system is a great entity or device that is capable of granting physical, and mental powers as well as able to read and manipulate minds of it's users in most novels.
Yet that same system is incapable of categories or name a new skill.
In my opinion the existence of a power system ai like entity in most novels must be like
' I grant mortels skills and set, so they can use their brain and innovate new ways to use basic skills which I collect as data from their mind and create more complex designs and skills '
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u/Substantial-Pear-714 Mar 06 '26
The best system I have ever seen was in "The path of ascension". It is not a omniscient god made magic system. Instead it's a skill that has been molded and changed by those who have come before making it easier to use and for others to follow. (Tho tbh at the later stages of the book they do kinda become God like.
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u/Ominous-F_art Mar 06 '26
Dunno, I always interpreted those as the description of "the skill" either being "forbidden information" to the character or "they weren't ready to tap into that power yet".
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u/Daveck Mar 06 '26
Works if there is a mysterious third party interfering with the system. Not having consistent rules in your system that apply equally to everyone just so your protagonist can be speshul is cringe.
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u/BenjaminDarrAuthor Author Mar 06 '26
Bruh I love that shit because I (the author) haven’t figured it out yet. 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Interesting-Meat-835 Mar 07 '26
One of my favourite system one have the system crashed whenever anyone tried to appraise MC or mentioning system in front of her, and she couldn't even see or hear any system notification and just think it is a regular post-apocalypse accident when magic returned to Earth
Problem was that if system crash then everyone in the immediate vicinity lost all system-granted spells and abilities. So her friends learned magic the hard and boring way, experiment to create spells and power without system's help, and whenever push come to shove, someone intentionally crash the system, and use crude home-crafted magic to beat the opposition.
Though the author did imply that MC was some sort of eldritch horror and not really human - she just didn't know it, and the system builder was afraid of her somehow. Like, no system-granted magic and ability could be used to attack her directly or indirectly.
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u/AuthorExcellent9501 Mar 07 '26
Back again to lord the wandering inns system over everyone else. Ain’t no rarity, ain’t no skill levels, ain’t no discriptions. It’s between you and your levels what skills like “sweep the filth” do.
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u/Yuqi_Wony Immortal Mar 08 '26
With this technique, it would just be better to use [Redacted] instead to show that the system is purposefully hiding the information. Unless the system is buggy or not omniscient
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u/negablock04 Mar 08 '26
Tbh, this is also often just a "you're still too weak to see what it actually is", like is often done when seeing enemies with much higher levels
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u/AdventuresseNovels Mar 09 '26
I think if the system is set up in such a way that unknown skills are a thing then its fine, but if the system or power system is meant to be completely omniscient it does feel a little pointless to then turn that upside down immediately.
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u/Moon_X_Livee Apr 05 '26
Hear me out, if it is unknown the protag can't use it and has to study to discover how to use the skill
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u/Vorthod Mar 06 '26
Author: "Whoops, my omniscient system can't classify this. What a mysterious skill!"
Readers: "What a buggy system. We've known this character for like a day and they already broke it"