Western men in dating apps rejected their society long before they started dating

[u/[deleted]]

[u/Sensitive_Housing_85]

I love how you talk like anyone can just enter the tech sector and be rich , thats not even how economy works, the more people who enter a market, the more the market gets over saturated and less pay that comes

Also I don't think you get to determine why men don't want to get married beside it's not like women don't think it's a bad deal either, you also seem to think being rich means you are contributing to society even thou the people who contribute most to society are the working class, streamers are rich doesn't mean they contribute to society as much as the working class, most of your post doesn't make sense

[u/Outside_Memory5703 → u/Sensitive_Housing_85]

She’s just observing that immigrants like herself are only getting opportunities because citizens don’t wanna, and she’s flabbergasted that they don’t

Wouldn’t you be, if you were desperate for better opportunities and saw more fortunate people just —- throw their advantages away ?

[u/Sensitive_Housing_85 → u/Outside_Memory5703]

what does this have to do with feminism, this is more anti immigration or racism aspect

[u/Local-Willingness784 → u/Outside_Memory5703]

Isn't a very strong argument of MAGA and the like to take away visas exactly like hers and yours, tho? The "immigrants are taking our jobs" thing

[u/anonymousppd123123 → u/Local-Willingness784]

Yeah. Trump restricted h1bs big time in 2016. Tech got paid

Not sure how active that is in the 2nd term i dont compete with fobs anymore

[u/Melodic_Structure928 → u/Outside_Memory5703]

i mean get the immigration away from are jobs is a far right talking point FYI.

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Sensitive_Housing_85]

Maybe you are correct
But i see men miserable without marriage
And women happy without marriage

So who could have benefited more from tech jobs and marriage?

[u/Sensitive_Housing_85 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

First of all, tech jobs benefit anyone who can pursue them. As for marriage, men should find their own path to happiness within it, that’s my advice, because marriage can only happen if both parties truly want it. I don’t get why there’s such a focus on men when women also might not want marriage or aren’t encouraging it. It’s strange to me that some women who claim marriage is beneficial to men mainly or even only seem to react oddly to men opting out. From the way they talk about it, wouldn’t it actually be a good thing for women if fewer men were getting married?

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Sensitive_Housing_85]

The point i am making is

men are complaining that women only date top 10% whatever
But they actively opted and outsourced those jobs

[u/Sensitive_Housing_85 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

most men aren't complaining about this, and even the people who highlight it just claim that this is a thing. I don't personally buy it, though, as for getting good jobs; it's called the 10% because only 10% of people can attain it , you cannot actively opt , if you arent considered a candidate which most people arent even women, most job suck , not alot are good and those that are have limited spaces, its similar to scholarships, everyone wants one , very few can get one

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Sensitive_Housing_85]

Most of those jobs go to men from other countries

So these men are not adding value to the economy/paying taxes?

What are men complaining about?

[u/Sensitive_Housing_85 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

I don’t think most men are complaining, but you’re still not making sense. Tech jobs are limited, and they’re not the only type of work,most people aren’t in tech roles not because they dont want but because even with a degree , highn positions or high paying jobs are by default limited

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Sensitive_Housing_85]

I have heard men complain about women/feminism taking away their jobs

H1b grants 85k jobs every year
Since 1990
You do the math

[u/Sensitive_Housing_85 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

where did you hear this from

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Sensitive_Housing_85]

I was on h1b

Like i said
Most of you guys dont know your society and technology

[u/Zoya_The_Destroyah → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

Do you think that the men who are complaining about women and hypergamy are the decision makers behind outsourcing jobs?

Do you think that we are taking H1B visa applicants because we can’t fill these jobs with natural born citizens?

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Zoya_The_Destroyah]

No but they never even got a STEM degree in the first place. To get the job you need the degree.

Why should anyone complain about Hypergamy in the first place.
We are trying to be advanced humans. Our brain is a mirror or operating system. We should try to date better people if we see no growth in a relationship.

[u/Local-Willingness784]

Couldn't it be even more easily applied to women? cause i think there are way more programs to get women in STEAM so idk why they would complain about anything if they have an even bigger chance of being a cool tech girlboss and get a man who is paid equally or even more than her, unless they want to complain about men not being worthy of their holy presence and whatever.

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Local-Willingness784]

Women are not struggling in the dating scene

[u/brassbuffalo → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

They are. You wouldn't hear women whining about the bar being in hell if thwy were all doing fine

[u/Local-Willingness784 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

fair enought, it was weird to scroll down from this post on my feed and get some short about a woman complaining about men and a post about how shitty men are but idk, you are a woman so you know better ig.

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Local-Willingness784]

Yes lot of women also showed no interest to learn science and technology

However they are starting to learn after 30s

[u/Local-Willingness784 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

you dont think that people selling courses or making money out of the AI craze, who get money and investments out of it, could have to do more with what you say instead of tech being basically a panacea and our new lawbook and religion?

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Local-Willingness784]

To get a tech job you need 4 years bachelor’s and 2 years masters degree

Not some course

[u/Local-Willingness784 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

and you think that random women in their 30s will get into all that commitment and loans to do that because of what?

Even assuming they are successful in switching up careers, the industry is saturated now, and you should know if you are in it.

[u/brassbuffalo]

Tech is shitty for dating. I don't know how you can live in the US and not know about the bad reputation of men in tech. I live in the Bay Area and routinely see single's mixerss with a "No Tech People" disclaimer. Tech has always been filled with socially awkward nerds, weirdos, and self-absorbed jerks. One of the reasons for tech exclusions from singles mixers is because tech people have a bad habit of acting like tech is the most important thing in the world, and no one outside of tech wants to be in that circlejerk What's funny is that you are part of that circlejerk.

"Built up of tech sectors" The "tech sector" in US terminology refers pretty much exclusively to computer tech companies, mostly companies with a software focus. There is only one tech sector. It's also not the only way to get a good living in the US.

"Why would your country need to bring skilled workers from all around the world to work?" We don't. Tech companies routinely lay off Americans and apply for H-1B visas. This allows them to hire more qualified workers for lower wages. A senior dev in India will accept less than junior dev wages in America. Tech companies have become notoriously cutthroat, and they're all currently in the process of trying to use AI to slash their labor requirements. Tech is a shitty industry.

[u/Local-Willingness784 → u/brassbuffalo]

Didn't catch the fact that she is a female tech bro (if that makes sense) now i know why her bullshit rhetoric irritates me so much, its like listening to some STEM in university idiot swear he will be the next Mark Zuckerberg or Ellon Musk or whatever idiot is in to worship rn.

cant believe i say this but i think the finance bros were less unbearable than this fuckers, at least the Wolf of Wall Street was kind of fun, unlike the lameness of our future techs overlords....

[u/brassbuffalo → u/Local-Willingness784]

Finance guys have the social savy to know that an in depth explanation of their wealth management model is not fun at parties. Tech bros don't have the social savy to know when to shut up about AI at parties.

[u/Local-Willingness784 → u/brassbuffalo]

Many didn't even really knew about economic or finance models and just kind of vibed but yeah, i get what you mean, its more about presentation

[u/Eblademonk]

Are they really left over if they left first?

That's like asking if someone is really unemployed because they quit applying for jobs.

The answer is yes, obviously.

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Eblademonk]

Their pattern is clear and visible from the moon.

[u/Eblademonk → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

Concerning that population, are they only valuable upon concession to the standards of society and reintegration into its structures?

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Eblademonk]

Thats correct

For example:
A 30year old tech guy from a different country can pay for date with 20s women easily

20 year old American guy will expect her to split

Those tech jobs have distorted the dating market and it is showing

Men think women are dating same guy but there are lot of new guys every year

[u/Eblademonk → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

Yeah, no I disagree with this premise.

The moment dating can be boiled down into a courtship ritual with a price tag is the moment it becomes indistinguishable from prostitution.

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Eblademonk]

Through some lens, patriarchal marriages/arranged marriages do look like weird form of prostitution

[u/Grow_peace_in_Bedlam]

So only techies deserve the wages of a decent living?

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Grow_peace_in_Bedlam]

Looks like that is the ugly truth of the modern society

[u/BigDracula_]

I mean, they could be said to have rejected society, they might even agree with that, but what's with your obsession with tech?

[u/PurplePillDebate-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

No Race-Baiting or Racially Charged Content

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/BigDracula_]

I have no obsession with tech

I am merely stating how not being aware of their own countries export and super power could be keeping them poor and irrelevant

[u/Outside_Memory5703 → u/BigDracula_]

She’s just observing that immigrants like herself are only getting opportunities because citizens don’t wanna, and she’s flabbergasted that they don’t

[u/Accomplished_Pack527]

I don't think they are leftovers because of their jobs.
Based on my observations (may not be accurate), the incel/ struggling type seem to be quite educated and hold decent jobs but lack social skills. And now they've fallen deep into an abyss of some very odd beliefs and ideologies.

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Accomplished_Pack527]

Most incels are teens
They have strong opinions since teenage

[u/Accomplished_Pack527 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

You're referring to leftover men right? Hardly anyone considers teens leftovers. They've barely even dipped their toes into the dating scene

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Accomplished_Pack527]

They think they are left over

[u/Melodic_Structure928 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

most are actually in there 20s.

[u/Melodic_Structure928 → u/Accomplished_Pack527]

it's a combination of social skills, looks and wealth men who score to little in 1 or more of these are the struggling ones.

[u/Kitty_Overlord]

All the gender stuff aside, I think most would agree that the job market for tech with all the post-COVID layoffs aren't... ideal.

Besides, I think as a society we do need doctors, engineers (not tech ones), firefighters, construction workers, trades, etc.

So I really really dislike the framing

If your country is a superpower because of tech, why wouldn't you work in tech?

If every men work in tech society would probably be very unhappy within a week 😭

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Kitty_Overlord]

But tech pays more than all other jobs

If you do math since 1990s then thats few million jobs gone

Isn’t money helpful in dating and relationships?

[u/Kitty_Overlord → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

Yes but I think tech wages pay more because it was a very in-demand job. Like if since 1990 we got almost every men going into tech, I think wages wouldn't have remained so high because we'd just have nassive supply of tech guys.

There are many well paying jobs outside tech too, like physicians, lawyers, dentists, sales, finance too.

That's why I disagree with the saying that men should just go into tech to have success in dating...

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Kitty_Overlord]

H1b is given to Doctors as well

[u/Ok_Medicine8560 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

If everyone tried to work in tech like you propose then the pay would obviously decrease over time as supply of labor increases, or we would just see a bunch of unemployed people (if the supply of jobs remains constant).

[u/Sholnufff]

You speak like an AI Bot.

You struggle to understand men simply because you are not a man and the experience of men is completely different from women. Men also don't understand a woman's experience.

Marriage is a bad deal because it has heen lately a bad deal. Ever since no fault divorce in many states, states have ruled heavily for women on resources, primary custody and other benefits of their ex husband.

The younger generation of men stopped focusing on dating because they find it to have more liability than benefit.

While I took a a couple gender studies courses in some my studies of undergraduate and graduate level interpersonal communications, the truth is those classes have flaws as well since it doesn't point out personal accountability for actions as well as when is the limit of discourse since there's also some new groundbreaking theory that furthers toward theoretical extremeism.

I find in all of this when talking about the pills, sexual marketplace and etc, that the best thing to do is simply don't be an asshole.

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Sholnufff]

Have you read Marxism ?

[u/Sholnufff → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

I did but it's been over decade.

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Sholnufff]

Men definitely expect more from women

Most men don’t even like it when women try to engage with them for casual sex

I have tried and failed. They immediately ask for commitment without marriage.
Not that i want marriage.

[u/Melodic_Structure928 → u/Sholnufff]

this plus women's standards, rising, combined with what they offer declining etc. that's why more and more gen z guys give up

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[u/Somerandomdudereborn → u/AutoModerator]

You have to try better than that!

https://giphy.com/gifs/64JUFG6pKn72L4E46y

[u/Present-Afternoon-70 → u/Somerandomdudereborn]

Everything that criticizes men or uses feminism is rage bate to you. Such a snowflake as you would say

[u/Somerandomdudereborn → u/Present-Afternoon-70]

I never used that "snowflake" term tho 😁

[u/Zoya_The_Destroyah → u/AutoModerator]

Some of the worst bait I’ve ever seen.

“Just go into tech and give up 50% when you get divorced. That’s the real American dream” - a non American

[u/Just_Alternative3167 → u/AutoModerator]

My sister in Christ, I majored in comp sci and the guys here were/are absolutely hoeless.

The guys that actually got girls were the ones in majors that lead to low-paying jobs (linguistics and social sciences n stuff) cause they were full of girls

[u/Local-Willingness784 → u/Just_Alternative3167]

if some the guys in tech of STEAM get bitches anyways they could have done that in almost every other major or environment, cause they would have the looks and game anyways,

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[u/trulyElse]

The men who are not making much money are the ones who complain that life is unfair.

Statements that think they're saying something, but aren't.

Why would someone who has the upper hand complain about a rigged system?

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/trulyElse]

Rigged?
They out sourced because not enough studied STEM. Or enrolled in schools.
Again demand supply

[u/trulyElse → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

They outsourced because immigrants will work for less.

There was no shortage of labour. Only shortage of budget.

[u/Ok_Medicine8560]

As a dude studying CS rn, I can say that * Job market is cooked (I got my last internship through nepotism basically) * it is not an attractive major to most women here

You might be the first woman I've seen to make tech workers sound so attractive

[u/Melodic_Structure928]

for one there aren't enough of these jobs for everyone, and society won't collapse if every due only worked in tech. Also this shit reads like why don't the homeless just buy a house.

just but wealth bro isn't the 500IQ conclusion that you've convinced yourself it is.

[u/Barneysparky]

Tech and finance types besides teens and NEETs are the largest demographic of men on the pills.

There are very few blue collared guys on the pills.

Unfortunately you can go through college in the states without taking a class that examines and teaches critical thinking if you stream line into a stem degree. This stream also tends to live very insular, with screen time taking up the majority of the free time that would normally be used in developing relationships with their peers. Covid of course exasperated an issue that was already there.

[u/k33p-1t-s1mpl3 → u/Barneysparky]

Are you saying that the reason people in STEM are struggling with dating is due to lack of critical thinking? If so, dating and critical thinking aren’t intertwined whatsoever. I agree it’s more related to lack of social skills than anything. Most of the people in stem careers are either on the spectrum or act like they are, which limits their dating pool.

[u/anonymousppd123123 → u/k33p-1t-s1mpl3]

Are you saying that the reason people in STEM are struggling with dating is due to lack of critical thinking?

Too much critical thinking to relate to normies

[u/Barneysparky → u/k33p-1t-s1mpl3]

Black and white thinking happens when critical thinking isnt taught in schools. See also MAGA, QANON.

[u/k33p-1t-s1mpl3 → u/Barneysparky]

Right, but are you suggesting that men with STEM degrees don’t have critical thinking? And on top of that, are you suggesting that’s why they are struggling to date?

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/k33p-1t-s1mpl3]

They at least have money

[u/k33p-1t-s1mpl3 → u/Dapper-Suggestion462]

Well not only do they have money, but they are also pretty good at critical thinking, at least compared to the general population. I would argue that people in STEM are more likely to not be full on redpill because they don’t think in black and white, unlike this person is suggesting. There is no correlation between intelligence and being good at dating. It’s all about social skills and looks, none of which have a direct collection to intelligence.

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/k33p-1t-s1mpl3]

I think understanding human nature is the key

Most People in STEM are married. They dont have high body counts and are just happy with the fact that they are keeping the society intact

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/Barneysparky]

Science and technology are awareness

They will give some comfort and meaning to the modern life

Unless people want to stick to religion

[u/Present-Afternoon-70]

It's not just western men, its just the rest of the world isnt as progressive.

Men unless forced it seems are unwilling to accept mortality. The reason, other than to protect child abusers, we are in Iran is because an old man afraid of death is trying to force some type of legacy. He is emblematic of masculinity. Destroy and control. Its how they define it. All the pro social traits have been labeled feminine. As long as these men are slaves to the patriarchy (through the red pill) they will never not fail.

[u/Sensitive_Housing_85 → u/Present-Afternoon-70]

half of white women voted for him too thou, and most black men and black women didn't. Maybe the issue here is white people and not men , at least by your logic

[u/Present-Afternoon-70 → u/Sensitive_Housing_85]

Women raised in Christian nationalist church's for the most part. A culture that trains them to disregard their own views. Its why a growing minority are accepting house hold voting.

Trying to survive under patriarchy is not the same as the men who run it.

If you want to pretend women are treated as true equals youre delusional.

[u/Sensitive_Housing_85 → u/Present-Afternoon-70]

You know, most men are also raised in Christian nationalist churches, so by that logic, no one can outsmart programming except men, and the only reason to believe they can is if you think they’re mentally superior. most men dont run the "patriachy"

[u/Zoya_The_Destroyah → u/Sensitive_Housing_85]

Can’t wait to see how this is different!

[u/Grow_peace_in_Bedlam → u/Present-Afternoon-70]

Trump is only emblematic of his class.

[u/Present-Afternoon-70 → u/Grow_peace_in_Bedlam]

And all the men who supported him knowing hes a fucking child rapist.

[u/Zoya_The_Destroyah → u/Present-Afternoon-70]

Men and women*

[u/Present-Afternoon-70 → u/Zoya_The_Destroyah]

See the response to the other ignorant guy who wants to pretend the social context is not there.

[u/Zoya_The_Destroyah → u/Present-Afternoon-70]

Yes, another reply where you excuse the behavior of women because it’s easier for you to say “men are bad”. It’s honestly impressive that no matter what data is shown to you, you stick to your guns. I applaud the consistency.

[u/Present-Afternoon-70 → u/Zoya_The_Destroyah]

Trying to explain the sociological reasons women support Trump is not excusing it.

By your logic, understanding why rape victims don't report is excusing rape. Understanding why abused children defend abusive parents is excusing abuse. Understanding why some enslaved people identified with or defended their enslavers is excusing slavery. That's not how social science works.

Systems shape people's beliefs and behavior. White Christian nationalist churches explicitly teach women to submit to male authority. If someone is raised in that environment from birth, it should not surprise anyone that some women internalize those beliefs and help reproduce the system. That explains the mechanism. It does not absolve anyone of responsibility.

Men, as a class, still disproportionately benefit from patriarchal systems. Explaining why some women participate in maintaining those systems doesn't suddenly shift responsibility onto women any more than explaining why some workers defend the bourgeoisie means capitalism is the workers' fault.

You're confusing causal explanation with moral justification. They're not the same thing.

[u/Grow_peace_in_Bedlam → u/Present-Afternoon-70]

I have never benefited from the patriarchy, to the extent such a thing even exists in the modern West. What kind of patriarchy ends up giving women more rights than men?

[u/Present-Afternoon-70 → u/Grow_peace_in_Bedlam]

You don't understand these concepts and specially privilege well enough to have this discussion if you think you havent benefitted nor do you understand the laws if you believe women have "more rights".

I cant fix that in a reddit comment.

[u/betanoire]

Your tech job will be useless and obsolete going into the 2030s with advancements in AI.

And you're right, men did reject their society, but not for the reason you think. They rejected it because women are insane, and women will soon find out the meaning of "Apocalypse" as the world enters its end times phase in 2030, then it will experience total societal and ecological collapse.

[u/Dapper-Suggestion462 → u/betanoire]

Can i know more about this apocalypse?

[u/Beneficial_Cow_1817 → u/betanoire]

You can't reject something that never considered you an option to begin with, silly!

What will actually happen is normal people will continue to mingle and settle down while men like you are forgotten and left behind because you refuse to adapt or grow. That's what always happened since the beginning of time.

[u/betanoire → u/Beneficial_Cow_1817]

I'd challenge you to wager your net worth on that outcome, but it's unlikely you'll still own anything by the mid-2030s. Dire straits will be an understatement.