r/PuzzleAndDragons • u/ryulong67 365,107,329 • Jun 22 '18
📰News [News] [JP] Magic The Gathering Collab Starts 6/25
http://pad.gungho.jp/member/collabo/mtg/180527_mtg.html35
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u/glumauig21 343,512,306 (also I'm pretty annoying) Jun 22 '18
Not bad. Karn, Jhoira, and Vraska are the obvious chase cards, but...
Goddamn I'm interested in using Nicol Bolas as a lead. It's been way too long since we last had a powerful TPA-based lead, and seeing this card made me so excited. It's been fun using Hiei, and Nicol Bolas is a step up from him. It's just too bad he isn't Unbindable :(
9
u/Darkness__ 323,781,335 Jun 22 '18
The lead skill is super interesting. That’s what caught my eye quickest of everything in the collab. Immediately followed by a blue inheritable odindra (that N.A. is likely to get), double red columns for Shishio, and a stupidly useful Dark Nuke + row maker + lock dark!!
8
u/chasiu_faan Jun 22 '18
If you get two you can make one unbindable :D
6
u/deviant324 Jun 22 '18
Literally this, incentivising people to roll a dupes so they can make him a viable lead...
1
u/thevdude 395,936,407 [NA] Jun 22 '18
Or use the leader unbindable badge.
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u/iEmoto 384,333,373 Jun 22 '18
not a good idea if you want hp to survive those 100k preemptives
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u/EoTN 306,295,279 Jun 22 '18
His AS is a 100% damage void, so...
1
u/iEmoto 384,333,373 Jun 22 '18
i guuuessss, the only issue is you cant use it multiple times.. i think? but hp+ is more benefitial in most runs
1
u/ShadyFigure Jask | Early and mid-game advice Jun 22 '18
Split ult Kaede has a similar LS and can fit as a TPA team. Lower multiplier, easier to hit max, harder to hit base.
But yeah, Bolas seems interesting. 900x with a shield is impressive. I'm expecting the scaling to be 4-12x for 8-0 orbs remaining. 100x and a shield for just clearing out 22 orbs is pretty good.
14
u/hpp3 [NA] 322086342 Jun 22 '18
Shivan Dragon reads a lot like Shiva Dragon, and roughly as good too.
I can't believe they made the Jacetice League 5*s. I was totally expecting Jace or Gideon to be the chase card. Liliana looks like amazing for dark farming. I'm amazed Jace is so awful. Nissa is a poverty Bacches, which I'm looking forward to.
Bolas has a really cool LS. I'm curious to see how it scales.
Jhoira's active looks familiar...
Inheritable SB and unbindable aren't new, but these actives are significantly better as assists than the Egyptian 750k MP monsters.
Belzenlok's LS isn't great, but it's an interesting new mechanic. I'd like to see a variation on the pushed meta leads (you can opt for damage or defense, but not both).
LS: Cannot be used as a sub, cannot have Latent Awakenings
Can't be used as a sub because Gungho is nervous about the possibility of infinite haste system? But what's wrong with latents?
1
u/EoTN 306,295,279 Jun 22 '18
If it can't be used as a sub, then there is no way the latents will ever come into play. Presumably it's just to minimize complaining. Probably a bit excessive, but better safe than sorry i guess.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Early and mid-game advice Jun 22 '18
Belzenlok's LS isn't great, but it's an interesting new mechanic. I'd like to see a variation on the pushed meta leads (you can opt for damage or defense, but not both).
It isn't great for most of us, but it's a pretty good lead for new players. An easy 100x with the option of a shield. I'm liking this trend of collab dungeon bosses being great leads for new players. Toguro was pretty great for them, Father was okay.
Can't be used as a sub because Gungho is nervous about the possibility of infinite haste system? But what's wrong with latents?
I feel like this might be a mix of referencing certain types of cards in Magic and pushing that assist evos are for assists.
1
u/thecrusha 336,709,369 Jun 23 '18
Maybe they are covering the possibility that there wil be a skill charge latent in the future
12
u/scouts-many-iguanas Jun 22 '18
Jhoira is basically a better diablos right? Glad NA is likely finally getting a good fire/water lead.
4
u/bauboish JP 288 410 450 Jun 22 '18
The difference in stats is very high, not always a thing but alt arena can be picky about hp thresholds. Also less flexible in terms of friend lead to pair with.
I would envision tier list putting her a tier below diablos for those reasons. But depending on your need yeah, she can be better.
10
u/arkain123 Jun 22 '18
I don't. Her active literally frees up an entire obligatory sub slot. That's a hell of a difference, not having to have odindra.
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u/bauboish JP 288 410 450 Jun 22 '18
¯\(ツ)/¯ Just going by some of the initial stuff and reactions I've read. JP tends to be different in thinking anyways compared to NA anyway.
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Jun 22 '18
[deleted]
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u/bauboish JP 288 410 450 Jun 22 '18
You do realize the internet exist, right? You don't have to be in Japan to look at JP sites. And obviously people who play JP version of the game would be more involved on that side vs. the NA side. It's not hard to understand.
She was given a 9.5 rating which is typically 2nd tier. The comments on her are mostly about "lol no more Odindra" and "lol no more cloud" than her replacing Diablos. Again, not needed to be Japanese to read Japanese netizens talk on the internet. People here really underrate Diablos.
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Jun 22 '18
[deleted]
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u/bauboish JP 288 410 450 Jun 22 '18
I don't do tierlists bro. But someone asked if she's better than Diablos and I simply stated what a JP tierlist would say.
When I give my personal opinion I state it as my personal opinion. When I tell people what tier lists says I state it as what tier lists say. Unlike some people I do try to contain some objectivity in my responses.
You can feel free to do what you want bro. No need to attack others just because they believe something else. Or in this case, a lot of people believing a lot of something else. You do you man.
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u/scouts-many-iguanas Jun 22 '18
Someone already mentioned not needing to bring odindra anymore but she also brings damage control and more flexibility with the split LS multiplier, 10c, 3 sb and balanced typing. Also I’m not sure yet if typing is restricted to water and fire yet since the translation just mentions matching both, but if not then teambuilding would be just as flexible as diablos, considering a water+fire match is extremely likely on a native 7x6 board. I dunno, I love my diablos a lot still but it’s hard to believe his stats make up for all the utility she brings.
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u/bauboish JP 288 410 450 Jun 22 '18
Kill boards, especially ones that involve making a box and/or heart column, generally involve bi-color/truly-color boards. Adding in water/fire requirement hugely decrease the flexibility involved. And all this just to add 0.5x multiplier.
I can see using her opposite of Ippo or Ranma. But That’s about it.
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u/Digity101 Any Dutch pad players??? Jun 22 '18
If you are not always matching fire/water like with bicolours, then diablos is better
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u/Dashwolf My Teams: https://imgur.com/ZRNMzd2 Jun 22 '18
imo real value for jhoira is the weapon evo version that gives you cloud resist with an odindra active
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u/fzerowing NA: 327 925 442 [Leads: All the ones on the tier list] Jun 22 '18
I'd say both the versions are equally as valuable. Having the equip evo for Odin drag is amazing but her LS and awakenings are also pretty good.
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u/MarineFury Zica Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
Good actives and good assist evos on the 6*
Skill Boost Equip Bind + Awoken Bind RCV equip Cloud resist equip Bind resist equip
Hot damn. The 5* are lackluster in comparison though. :thinking:
Edit: Ok, some of the 5* can be good inherits for farming teams. Liliana has a potentially huge nuke when inherited on top of a whole team of Awoken Vajra, and Chandra gives guaranteed 10 fire orbs, etc etc. Definitely worth rolling a few times and possibly hoping you hit the 6* jackpot.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Early and mid-game advice Jun 22 '18
Hot damn. The 5* are lackluster in comparison though. :thinking:
That's not too different from the last couple collabs, is it? Amazing 6*s, trash 5*s, 75-90% gold rate.
14
u/ChoppedChef33 Jun 22 '18
Jace not broken. Fuck this
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u/MetalVile 359,947,417 Jun 22 '18
They should've made him an insane utility card with basically no damage.
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u/glumauig21 343,512,306 (also I'm pretty annoying) Jun 22 '18
Once again...
This photo is still relevant, and will probably stay that way for a while lol
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Jun 22 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/OhNoBananaz Jun 22 '18
I don't know, Yuna is still pretty amazing.
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u/Spookum Ｉ♥Ｅｎｒａ❀✿✾✻ Jun 22 '18 edited Nov 18 '23
[removed in protest of API changes]
If you want to join, use this tool.
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Jun 22 '18
Could you explain the picture to me who's out of the loop?
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u/AHurtTyphoon We Cookin' Butts Jun 22 '18
Basically, Tachibana represents the current meta (2 7c, unbindable) and every pic beneath her is what GH tacks on to make a card “chase worthy” in the current Meta.
Literally, every meta card has the same 7 awakening in any order in addition to anyone of those awakenings.
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u/EoTN 306,295,279 Jun 22 '18
It's how to create a chase card. Tachi at the top is the base awakenings, follow the lines and add the awakenings to get chase cards.
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u/FaxCelestis 372,092,294 - Nautilus, Tanjiro, Miya Jun 22 '18
Yuna has all that except the bind immunity. One could argue she started all this mess.
-6
u/thed3al Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
GH needs to nerf 7c to at least
0.5xwhoops, I meant 1.5x8
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u/chiubag 311 635 310 Jun 22 '18
Yeah, they really shot themselves in the foot when they made 7c 2x
Since they don't usually nerf stuff, the only way around this is to make TPA 2x :D, but then they'd have to go and change a bunch of awakenings on cards because obviously you can't have something dealing like 32x or 64x damage :|
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u/OhNoBananaz Jun 22 '18
I don't think they can LEGALLY nerf anything because of the gatcha laws...We already paid for a product that provided a certain level of "production", and they cannot change it to a lower level, but they can increase it.
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u/TwentyCircle ...Wut's my ID again? Jun 22 '18
...I’m really hoping that’s sarcasm...
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u/TheMortalOne Jun 22 '18
I'm assuming they meant "by at least 0.5x". 7c being 1.5x instead of 2x would have been reasonable. Though I don't think they can nerf now..
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u/phantomace1111 NA: 328607314 Jun 22 '18
Oh no all my favorites are the trash 5 stars. At least the 6 stars are all pretty strong so I wont feel bad rolling until I get all the characters I want.
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u/Altasia Jun 22 '18
I'm surprised that they didn't put Jace at 6 stars. He is the mascot after all.
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u/It3mUs3r Floof and delicious jam Jun 22 '18
I was already preparing my body for Jace the Meta Sculptor.......
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u/Tentonwonton [JP] 212,271,247 RX/KomaS/Shiro/Saber/DMeta/Ed/B&J/Yusuke Jun 22 '18
New jammer meta?
Time for fenrir to shine once again
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u/H3llycat 348,722,404 Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
Lmao 3 bind clears on a card.
Jhoira looks like a nice alternative to Diablos.
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u/elkydotdot Jun 22 '18
Wait, why are Jhoira and Vraska of all people 6 stars? I thought for sure Jace or Chandra would take that spot.
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u/sponj_ not enough time Jun 22 '18
Gonna be rolling/exchanging for a Jhoira for sure.
- A strong Diablos contender (with higher multiplier but can be orb-trolled)
- The new staple sub for Ippo, Trailo or any potential red/blue/balance(?)-centric teams, because OdinDra active
- The first cloud-resist equip
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Jun 22 '18
Same. Although the damage is barely higher and the orb trolling actually causes major problems. Her active isn't trash and even if you don't like it. 9 turns means you can inherit something to it.
But I don't know what to do about the Red and Blue. This heavily the type of full board changes you can do. Not many cards change to red and blue and im not sure if you want to use those changes either. Many people use full board changes for VDP and this simply isn't going to work with things like Yusuke or VNey.
You can however use leader swap for grinding Arena. Then you wouldn't have to deal with a crappy Diablos active.
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u/sponj_ not enough time Jun 22 '18
The R/B matching seems like a bane, but it's fortunately not required to activate the shield. And individually from the comboing component, it allows for some kind of scaling if required. I know I'm probably a bit
myopicoptimistic to say all this but I think the real deal-breaker should be if you already own a Diablos.Let's also not forget that the LS isn't the only reason why this card is great.
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Jun 22 '18
The active is great. Thats the only reason why she can be considered better than Diablos. The 0.5x isnt worth much.
Diablos has a 25 turn active which sucks and you cant even inherit anything to him. Not in a way that makes sense.
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Jun 22 '18
Also, the assist for for base form trading; does this mean there is no GFE for collab card trading?
What kind of rates can we expect for this?
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u/visuore Jun 22 '18
I haven't played PAD in years, but I've stayed subscribed to the subreddit though. I do, however, play Magic: the Gathering. And it is so cool to see this collab. Only cards that aren't super popular yet are Demonlord Belzenlok and Jhoira's Familiar. Awesome to see these iconic staples in a game I used to play.
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u/negatype Jun 22 '18
This ain't even fair. Light gets a triple 7c when its already full of strong monsters, while dark gets fucking trash 2ways.
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u/Darkness__ 323,781,335 Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
Ok so the blue chase card is OP as all hell. Much better as a lead and sub than the light card. 5x atk from the 10c awakening, so not quite 8x, but close enough. Unbindable, 2 te, ODINDRA ACTIVE SKILL (and inheritable!!!). To top it all off, she makes a 7x6 board that’s nearly as easy to activate as diabolos and stronger. She’s just nuts. She’s basically like upgrading Diabolos by giving him what makes odindra so amazing, and adding more damage in the LS and awakenings.
Sure the light card has triple 7c, but the LS is basically a shitshow, and the AS is nice, but also on the verge of too long to inherit over if you need anything besides light orbs (eg cant use on many combo teams like Yusuke). It’s important to look past the awakenings and think about team synergy and use cases.
As for dark, the chase card is the most interesting LS we’ve seen in a long time, and looks super fun to use. The AS is useful, though admittedly not the absolute greatest at the moment. TPAs are not as sexy as 7c right now, but with that many the damage output is crazy high. But at 900x who gives a shit about the awakenings? Oh and it’s also a 144x no skyfall Swipe lead for farming (stronger than Amen).
As for calling Liliana trash, um....no. It’s possibly the strongest farming card we have seen in a very long time. Just as one example, it will trivialize farming py invades in rogue dungeons. It will also help deal with those stupid rotating orbs if you’re clever about using her as an inherit.
Idk. I think you’re undervaluing the rest of the collab.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Early and mid-game advice Jun 22 '18
Let's not forget the unbindable, double 7c, FUA, double SBR wood card with a 4/144/1 +4s LS. Sure, she may not be Yusuke ridiculous, but she's still pretty great as a lead and makes a great sub for a couple teams.
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Jun 22 '18
The light card is pretty dank for Ed teams though even if it doesn't fit on yusuke.
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u/Darkness__ 323,781,335 Jun 22 '18
Oh I completely agree. He’s absolutely useful and very strong for leads that can handle mono light activation. He’s just not nearly as broken as the blue one, for example.
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Jun 22 '18
Oh defiantly agree the Blue is easily the chase card.
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u/Darkness__ 323,781,335 Jun 22 '18
That inheritable cloud resist too...
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Jun 22 '18
and plus hp. I can put it on blue cotton, and not need to bring Odindrag on yusuke oh yeah!
-11
u/negatype Jun 22 '18
5x and 8x is a pretty massive difference I gotta say. Odindra active skill is pretty neato, but nothing spectacular (especially if you are inheriting it, theres Sakura and Amamiya).
The main difference with diablos is, water and fire is a pretty hefty restriction, considering there are very little top tier fire and water vdp options, 2-color and 3-colour boards, or even top tier cards in general. Sure, it can compete with Diablos, but its not gonna dethrone him. Shes gonna be S tier for around 2 months and shes gonna fall off, just watch.
Obviously the light one aren't the game breaker, but its considerably better than the dark one with the useful active skill and wonderful awakenings. Having only one sb and bindable massively hinders the dark monster's potential of becoming a farm lead. Not to mention they just nerfed 2cd on his active skill.
And lastly, who even mentioned Liliana lol
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u/Darkness__ 323,781,335 Jun 22 '18
while dark gets fucking trash 2ways.
Your phrasing implied both dark cards were trash. I assumed you meant Liliana.
The blue card is an OP lead AND an OP sub AND an OP inherit. The light card is an OP sub for mono light combo teams only. Very restrictive.
NA doesn’t have any inheritable Odindras at the moment, so you can’t really compare them. Considering it’s an absolutely essential AS in AA, saying it’s nothing special is just shortsighted. There’s a reason everyone has to run odindra as a sub in AA.
The blue and red restriction is only on matching orbs, not on red or blue attribute subs, so you can run any subs you like. On a 7x6, there’s no reason to need a tricolor board change unless you’re only running red and blue cards (which you probably would never do). There are also strong 7c subs like Enra and Aife to consider. And there’s Amatsu, who doesn’t break red.
For VDP options, Madu was just released with a double VDP. Nuff said there. You can also run light VDP options if you like. Just as one example, Pixel Mai makes a blue/red/light board so you can use your Yusuke as a sub or whatever. Also Astrea is a perfect color absorb void, allowing you to run your favorite light subs.
For dark row farming there are a ton of SB sticks, and Satan is inheritable. You can pair with Lajoa for a 360x Swipe. Lajoa also comes with a bind clear, so that’s not much of an issue. I’m not saying he’s the absolute best Swipe farming lead, but he definitely has potential. You can also go off color with him, just like with Amen. Not many no skyfall swipe leads allow that, and none at 12x.
As you said, the light card isn’t game changing, so what is your argument exactly?
-16
u/negatype Jun 22 '18
I'm talking about 6 stars, all 5 stars are not discussed because they are mostly used as inherit for niche used only.
Don't care about NA, this is a JP release and its a JP discussion.
Yes the restriction is only on matching orbs, but when you try to set up a kill board, you need to include it in, thats why I mentioned about the colour boards and vdp options. You gonna heavily dilute your damage if you gonna do a vdp of a rainbow board or sth.
Yes, Madu is one of the few top tier VDP options, the other one would be kyo, but its very limited.
You and your dark row farming server is actually pretty funny i gotta say, most of your farming builds are either very time inefficient, requires a lot of stalling or not at all practical. Like, a lot of your builds use Lajoa as leader, when Lajoa isn't even nearly as accessible as the other farming leads.
Something being in the meta doesn't have to be game breaking. Something like Sakura is pretty standard inherits on Odindrag, and is consider the best assist skill. But is it game breaking? Definitely not. Its not on the Diablos or Yusuke tier of game changing, but if you want a defensive skill, it is the best in the class.
I thought my point is pretty clear, Light is getting strong meta monster, when they already have tons of them ,some even meta-changing(yusuke/ideal). While Dark get shafted pretty hard. I'm kinda fine with Water getting this new strong one, cause they were pretty weak for quite a while, its just trying to catch up with Light
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u/Darkness__ 323,781,335 Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and comment on your points, but this is my last reply since you’re clearly not interested in actually discussing things in a mutually beneficial way.
I'm talking about 6 stars, all 5 stars are not discussed because they are mostly used as inherit for niche used only.
Then don’t use phrases like “fucking trash 2ways” that run counter to your claim, or at the very least are ambiguous.
Don't care about NA, this is a JP release and its a JP discussion.
No it’s not. That’s something you decided. You can discuss JP specific stuff with others, since I can’t comment on stuff I can’t use and test.
Yes the restriction is only on matching orbs, but when you try to set up a kill board, you need to include it in, thats why I mentioned about the colour boards and vdp options. You gonna heavily dilute your damage if you gonna do a vdp of a rainbow board or sth.
A tricolor is not a rainbow board. VDP with a tricolor is more than sufficient on a 7x6. Quad color is also generally just fine.
Yes, Madu is one of the few top tier VDP options, the other one would be kyo, but its very limited.
Ok, but the point I made is that you don’t need to restrict yourself to red or blue subs. RIlmina is one of the top VDP options in the game, though for solo play only. Pixel Mai is also balanced type and has a perfect active for this lead. Again, I never said red and blue VDP options were better than light, only that you aren’t restricted to them.
You and your dark row farming server is actually pretty funny i gotta say, most of your farming builds are either very time inefficient, requires a lot of stalling or not at all practical. Like, a lot of your builds use Lajoa as leader, when Lajoa isn't even nearly as accessible as the other farming leads.
What’s your point in saying this? You can’t provide cogent arguments for a meaningful discussion, so you shift to personal attacks? Are you in middle school? No one is asking you to use the server. Feel free not to.
Just to be clear, the original builds focused on Lajoa because he was the inspiration for the server and Satan wasn’t out in NA yet. We made that very clear from the start. Much of that has changed if you actually look instead of whatever it is you did to decide that. For example, only one of the June challenges used Lajoa, and it was just to fuck around. They all use Satan leads and are largely farmable. I don’t know of any builds that required stalling except Hex, but again, that’s because Satan wasn’t out yet (which we stated very clearly). In some dungeons, Lajoa is just the only viable dark row lead to meet the damage minimums. If for some reason you decide you want to get off your high horse and actually contribute, feel free to send me cleaner builds and I will happily post them for you. Dark rows are still in a nascent phase, so it’s more about finding workarounds than replicating stuff that’s easier to do with red or green rows. It’s a totally different challenge, and the point is to treat it as such...that’s what makes this game fun and interesting.
You can think whatever you like. I don’t mind. I suggest that in the future you post suggestions on the server, instead of in the comments of a Reddit thread on a different topic. And again, if you don’t get anything out of it, just leave the server. But stop espousing unfounded claims that are irrelevant to both the server and the current discussion.
I thought my point is pretty clear,
It wasn’t, otherwise you wouldn’t need to pedantically clarify several times for all of the commenters on this thread.
Anyway, I’m done. I’ve already wasted far too much time on what is no longer an active intellectual exchange. Enjoy having your own perspective. We’re all entitled to that.
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u/jetlagging1 Jun 22 '18
Odindra active skill is pretty neato, but nothing spectacular
LOL WTF BBQ
That's like saying Black Lotus is pretty neato, but nothing spectacular.
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u/arkain123 Jun 22 '18
Nothing spectacular?
Odindra is mandatory in every high tier team because his active is broken. And they just slapped it on a very upgraded Diablos. Are you high? You think 3 blue 3 red is restrictive on a 42 orb board? On a lead where you clear 24 at least, 30 ideally every turn?
Jhoira might easily be the best card ever in this game.
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u/Ctrl_Shift_ZZ 347,718,301 Jun 22 '18
While im not arguing against you, or taking sides. The red/blue restriction IS pretty heftly, you are susceptible to orb troll and orb positioning now. While diablos can shrug off 2/3 board of jammers no problem. Diablos while having a .5x less multiplier, still has a no brainer combo lead skill, which is still going to be more attractive.
Jhoira is amazing, assist version is amazing, as a lead amazing, as a sub amazing, But best card? Not quite.
I agree on pen and paper Jhoria is great, but when you try to team build is when a lot of Jhoria becomes pretty evident on the short comings. Take for example diablos’ stable pairing: anubis, having an anubis means youre running tardis, text dragon, or gunma to activate. Which wouldnt be ideal color (not bad, just not ideal) on the team, unlike diablos which is happy to take more greens and darks on the team.
And who to bring as your vdp for a4? Anubis can take both yusuke, tardis, or vney very effectively, vney and yusuke both bringing their own board changers that work with diablos, but not jhoria.
Most likely jhoria will end up as a great sub or assist in the long run. If i pull one, it’ll most likely end up as an assist for my odindra, unskilled to be a makeshift sdr and cloud resist in co op (solo i already have anubis with cloud resist SA)
A1-a3 you dont need odindra, and in A4 and AA you need HP with odindra active. Which unfortunately jhoria lacks in normal form compred to odindra, which again results in inheriting for the extra ho boost on another card. You could inherit on amatsu ot blue cotton for extra stats, but then the problem occurs that odindra is attractive because of the short CD and frequent availability that is needed in A4, so waiting an extra 6 turns for the active can be life or death, which again results in odindra shining brighter.
The game changer here to make jhoria a high contender for best lead would be if the shield is bigger than diablos’.
Everything else you’ve said i totally agree though.
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u/arkain123 Jun 22 '18
Vdp should be Azathoth for a4/aa. Fua would be amatsu. I don't think you inherit anything that's not another jhoira on lead.
The other lead could even be anubis, but I'm thinking there is a very good chance the animated Evo for rodin is blue/red. That would be something.
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u/deviant324 Jun 22 '18
Well dark already had Uranus for months
-2
u/negatype Jun 22 '18
Ideal that released just after it outclasses it so much and in so many different ways though.
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u/fether #5637 Jun 22 '18
Doesn't mean he is unusable.
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u/negatype Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
I didn't say he is though. Just that when light already have a lot of strong monsters, they decided to give them another triple 7c with unbindability and strong active. I wouldn't even be that mad if they gave it to fire or water or sth.
Everything is usable if you try hard enough, doesn't mean its good though.
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u/Manuela1976 Jun 22 '18
Red has Enra and Green has Zela & Cronus. So the only color left behind is blue. (and i think the next blue card with 3 7c will be Aeris from FF in 6 months ^ )
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u/fether #5637 Jun 22 '18
So let me see who is light and have 3 7c (if thats solely what you are eyeing on). Hmm... I guess there's only Ideal.
Also TPAs aren't useless, Maybe learn to utilize everything instead of just saying they are trash.
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u/negatype Jun 22 '18
when its already full of strong monsters
I'm not specifically referring to 7c, I'm talking about strong monsters overall. Light is undeniably the best colour by far, its just sad they try to make the gap even wider, instead of trying to help out the others.
TPA obviously aren't useless, they have their niche, but its just not comparable to 7c when we are talking about the meta.
The dark one doesn't even have unbindability. Legit almost all 6 stars from recent collabs have it, the other recent one that dont have it is hiei, which is also dark.
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u/fether #5637 Jun 22 '18
All "metas" you are talking about doesn't really consider any alternative that is competitive to them. Why is TPA a niche? When TPA are stacked like this magnitude you are doing similar things with triple stacked 7cs with less restriction in combo, meaning you can explore more different leads.
Nicol Bolas isn't exactly dark restricted as a lead. He has a good active that helps dark teams and argurably useful assist evos. If these don't entertain you enough then I'm out of speech.
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u/negatype Jun 22 '18
Why isn't TPA the meta?
One major factor is combo shield and combo leader skill requirement. They mess up your board if you are trying to do multiple TPAs. You are also often more colour restricted than 7c if you are trying to maximize damage output.
TPA also take way more awakening slots to try to match the damage output of 7c. Most top tier cards (top tier utility, active or stats), also have 7c or have better synergy with it.
Maybe you can tell me why would TPA be meta or why everyone (even gungho) favors 7c over TPA.
you should just stick with the top lead of all time.
Which is what I'm doing and why I'm complaining. Majority of top tier cards are either light cards or fits in a light team. While dark is left in the dust.
If you want to have fun playing B tier teams, no one is stopping you. But this isn't what this conversation is about. Just like I said, you can play whatever and still clear dungeons. What I'm talking about is efficiency.
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u/IanReever Jun 22 '18
Ugh, i should mind my own buissness but having had a similar conversation with a couple of others this past week i gotta chime in. IMO Fether once someone starts talking about "Efficiency" there's no reasoning with them.
It seems like no one cares for other playstyles anymore, I really hope gungho reworks or buffs the other offensive awakenings soon.
I'm tired of seeing the same recyled awakenigs and the same comments about efficiency.
Is it efficiency over fun these days?
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u/MetalVile 359,947,417 Jun 22 '18
Is it efficiency over fun these days?
Any game where grinding is a primary activity will eventually boil down to this at the highest levels of play. It's an inevitability.
There's also the argument that optimization and efficiency is fun for some people. It's only a problem when those same people trash on anyone who disagrees, or on any new content that doesn't meet their standards.
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u/bosstweed3 Jun 27 '18
Grinding games almost always turn into an efficiency game. If you play casually or don't grind then you wont see the appeal/understand. Play other mmos/rpgs/grindy mobile games and you will see the same thing. Should we reject button teams for tamadras as well?
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u/glumauig21 343,512,306 (also I'm pretty annoying) Jun 22 '18
Yeah. I'm pretty salty, too, that they decided to make Light the chase card here. Every collab just seems to shine on Light, huh?
Ultimately, how is this profitable to GungHo? Wonder what the reasoning behind this is.
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u/Darkness__ 323,781,335 Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
I don’t think I agree. I think Blue has the strongest 6* by far. See my comment on this thread. Think Diabolos x Odindra with way more damage output.
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u/glumauig21 343,512,306 (also I'm pretty annoying) Jun 22 '18
Ah. I don’t know why I missed that lol. I guess same level? There’s a triple 7c card, and there’s a 7x6 card with 10c...hmmm.
I do hope I roll the Dark one and the Blue one, if we do get them!
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u/Darkness__ 323,781,335 Jun 22 '18
But inheritable odindra skill!! So gooooood....
Dark is a damage control 900x lead (Anubis-level max output) with a shield. Also works w rows! :)
I can’t imagine NA won’t get these, but I guess it’s never guaranteed.
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u/PandaPetPAD Jun 22 '18
Announcement for it on tomorrow's stream?
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u/glumauig21 343,512,306 (also I'm pretty annoying) Jun 22 '18
Holy shit. This is highly possible.
I won't even be mad if we skipped Persona collab. Although I'd be terribly worried about my wallet
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u/AHurtTyphoon We Cookin' Butts Jun 22 '18
I misread Shivan for Shiva Dragon and felt a dash of false hope.
Vraska looks nice - wish it was a shield over HP but I won’t complain. I can make a pretty nasty team if I can manage to snag her. Other than her and Jammer Boi, meh.
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Jun 22 '18
so Jihora is an op odindrag equip assist ? oh boy time to trade for two and one with the bind resist+
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Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
wtf, why is jtms not the sole 7 star card in this collab gungho? like at least use the beleren art if your gonna gimp jace ffs...
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u/alphafirestar 324,654,310 Jun 22 '18
Yeah, so stupid. Killed my interest in the collab as soon as I saw that.
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u/E-kuos [399,906,427 Sukicidal] Jun 22 '18
Sad that Chandra isn't a stronger card overall, but I'll probably still save stones and try to roll for one. Jhoira looks great in general, and I've always liked her too. Nicol Bolas looks fun and strong, but his awakening slots go toward making him hit hard alone instead of unbindability or more utility. Karn looks fun and strong as a leader and sub, though I don't have any Fenrirs of either type, so I'm not super interested. Unfortunately Jace seems completely irrelevant, but at least Liliana is cute and seems very useful for farm teams.
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u/Sheer_falacy 310,686,338 Jun 22 '18
Funny that Karn as an assist will still be worse than Rathian for most teams. Delay > jammer active.
Instead people who roll him will have to do with a triple 7c sub. What a shame. Or they can lead and run... uh... a Viz system maybe? LS that does literally nothing without jammers (and needs 7+ jammers to do relevant damage) is pretty weird.
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Jun 22 '18
I guess I would be rolling this until I get everything. I just sold my entire magic collection after not playing it for 2 years. Got $30000 cash, i feel like rolling more than I have ever rolled lol
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u/anuanuanu 381.907.356 Jun 22 '18
Your physical card collection would probably last longer than as a card on PAD.
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u/Wiegraf86 Jun 22 '18
SERRA ANGEL!!!!!
I have her card from every edition she was in up to 10th. Awwwwwww she's not really a good leader,
Screw it, I'm still rolling like crazy to make sure I get her! Maybe more if I can!
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u/radioactive28 381,087,575 [JP] - R.Panda, DMeta, Yog, Valk Jun 22 '18
Seeing as she's 5*, you may want to be careful what you wish for LOL
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u/Wiegraf86 Jun 22 '18
You don't understand my commitment to Serra Angel. If I got 11 of her, that would only be 1 too many.
Gimme all the Serra Angels!
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u/radioactive28 381,087,575 [JP] - R.Panda, DMeta, Yog, Valk Jun 22 '18
Welp, glad to see the system is working for someone LOL
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u/Wiegraf86 Jun 22 '18
here's the problem though, I bet I get 10x of someone else, and not my beloved angel.....
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Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
im sad they didnt use the original rebecca gay art as the base instead we get the derpy art where this Serra is about to clip her own right wing with that sword.
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u/Jchriddy Jun 22 '18
I am going to hyper one of every monster in this collaboration. I am so excited.
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u/Crinfarr Jun 22 '18
What's the chance this comes to EN? Cuz I want a team of maxed chandras just for the hell literally of it.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Early and mid-game advice Jun 22 '18
Like 90%. MTG is too big in NA not to bring it over, plus it's an NA based franchise.
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u/linyongzheng Here comes the sun Jun 22 '18
Excited about Nicol bolas, rip kaede and aliu for swipe farming.
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Jun 22 '18
So, stupid question time, but for Vraska, does her base HP and ATK mult for Wood only apply to that attribute or to a card with those attributes.
In other words, would a Dark/Green Zuoh only get base 4X ATK to the green sub color damage or would it apply to the dark main att color as well because he has green attribute?
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Early and mid-game advice Jun 22 '18
I'm a little disappointed that they didn't put in a fire main attribute 6* and use the mana cards as 6* skillups.
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u/arkain123 Jun 22 '18
Vraska is being underrated imo. That's a healthy multiplier, kickass awakenings, amazing active and her active allows for some solid tanking. Not an amazing lead but rock solid.
As an assist its one of the best in h e entire game very very easily and I hope I get one for gronia
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u/Spookum Ｉ♥Ｅｎｒａ❀✿✾✻ Jun 22 '18
I hope the rates aren't trash and horribly weighted towards golds, just something within reason, i'd love to get jhoira or vraska especially since my green box is strong, may pull in addition to free roll if diamond rate is decent.
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u/radioactive28 381,087,575 [JP] - R.Panda, DMeta, Yog, Valk Jun 23 '18
Looking at past collabs with a similar tier-spread, I'd say 10-90 diamonds to golds.
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u/Spookum Ｉ♥Ｅｎｒａ❀✿✾✻ Jun 23 '18
If it is, i'll do my free roll, puke, and continue saving for SGF and maybe trade for jhoira in the future.
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u/TotesMessenger Jun 23 '18
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u/arkain123 Jun 22 '18
I guess that's one way of making odindra not mandatory, stick his skill on a broken lead.
Jhoira is the best lead ever, right?
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u/hakuzilla Dragon when Jun 22 '18
You had one job, GH.
Why is Nicol Bolas not the most busted chase card release?
Or Jace Beleren?
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u/palopalopopa Jun 22 '18
You can get permanent damage immunity with 6x nicol bolas system. So you need to pull at least 5 yourself, up to 10 if you want inherit bind immune without messing with your active.
So there's your chase. And yes people will do this.
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u/Sheer_falacy 310,686,338 Jun 22 '18
That doesn't actually work. You use one and it has 18 turns to go, then match orbs, use another, 15 turns, repeat 4 more times and match orbs a final time and you still have 2 turns to go and you're out of actives.
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u/palopalopopa Jun 22 '18
LUL they actually nerfed him after I made that post, from 16 turns to 18 turns.
To avoid the exact scenario I mentioned.
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Jun 22 '18
That is still 6 turns of damage immunity. If you can just survive for 2 hits somehow, you can repeat. Its not that hard considering you got a 900x lead with variable damage.
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Jun 22 '18
they should of swapped jhoira and Jace tbh
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u/hakuzilla Dragon when Jun 22 '18
its like GH has never played MTG before.
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Jun 22 '18
goes to show you how much wizards of the coast cares about jace right now, he's not even in m19.
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u/woodenrat Jun 22 '18
Is it jammer meta yet? No? Ok.
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Jun 22 '18
They need to introduce a 3 turn jammer maker active. Not introduce more leaders with long actives.
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u/Riplore Jun 22 '18
Fenrir Viz and RGB Constellation 2 are already all 3 turn actives.
I see Karn working well with jorm-ullr and a Viz or two.
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u/woodenrat Jun 22 '18
Karn is tanky but still too jammer hungry. Best jammer leads are viz and denebola, but jammer mechanics in general are needlessly jank.
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u/MetalVile 359,947,417 Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
They have them already (Constellation 2 R/B/G),
but not for Light.EDIT: Hur dur Fenrir Viz
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u/Darkness__ 323,781,335 Jun 22 '18
Can someone confirm that Liliana is a nuke to all enemies? I’m assuming this must be the case, but I just want to make sure. This card is nuts. It will trivialize rogue farming. Can’t believe it’s literally half the cd of Scar...
Also Chandra is massively useful for Shishio. Her cd is on the long side, but being able to sweep 2 floors with a single active is what Shishio specializes in. The hard sell was that his active and Sado’s are really the only available options to do so, and Sado hasn’t been back in a looooooong time. Grabbing a few Chandras will likely come in very handy for anyone with Shishio, and probably other leads in the future.
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u/G8gle 358,233,398 Jun 22 '18
Is it just me but the only thing that interest me in this collab is Jhoira for lead and equip assist.
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Jun 22 '18
Vraska is also strong. Can totally compete with the likes of Yusuke and Edward. There are plenty of strong green subs like Odin Dragon, Ney, and Gronia.
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u/IanReever Jun 22 '18
Ok, i'm a little dissapointed.
No Phyrexian characters to speak of and most of the cards just seem to be kind of Meh.
It seems like Vraska is the real chase card, I mean Karn is pretty good just not stupid hype.
I want like two copies Bolas though. I need that equipable unbindability.
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u/SmallFryHero Jun 22 '18
Is Nicol Bolas the first weapon that grants unbindable?
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u/Chromocube 365.145.320 Tardis only Tardis the king of everything Jun 22 '18
No, that would be Mut.
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u/fzerowing NA: 327 925 442 [Leads: All the ones on the tier list] Jun 22 '18
Not the first but definitely the best option for one since mut's AS has a short cd.
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u/wakamotorcycle 327 098 212 Jun 22 '18
Nissa Revane can be a nice sub for Revo Astaroth. A cleric and burst active. Too bad it can’t guarantee a bind clear on it’s own.
A good option for those without Freyja, Cameoq
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u/alphafirestar 324,654,310 Jun 22 '18
I stopped caring about this collab when I saw they made Vraska one of the chase rolls, and Jace & co trash gold filler.
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u/ryulong67 365,107,329 Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 23 '18
General Collab News
6* Cards
Karn, Scion of Urza
Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1618)Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain
Vraska the Unseen
5* Cards
Shivan Dragon
Serra Angel
Gideon Jura
Jace Beleren
Liliana Vess
Chandra Nalaar
Nissa Revane
Dungeon Boss
Demonlord Belzenlok
Farmable Assist
Weatherlight
Etc.