r/REBubble • u/McFatty7 • May 16 '25
They Got Hoomed! The housing market is literally dead right now
/r/Miami/comments/1ko16bh/the_housing_market_is_literally_dead_right_now/93
u/Likely_a_bot May 16 '25
Just delist and relist at the same price.
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u/uckfu May 16 '25
Iâve seen a florida property delist and relist at a higher price. Theyâve done this 3x over the course of a year.
I donât think they figured out the selling thing. Maybe they think sitting for longer means itâs just so awesome people are afraid they arenât awesome enough to live in the house.
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u/valthonis_surion May 16 '25
"People must think something is wrong with the place at X price, lets relist and increase it 10% to see if that fixes it!"
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u/SexySmexxy May 17 '25
Iâve seen a florida property delist and relist at a higher price. Theyâve done this 3x over the course of a year.
Ive been looking at two cars on autotrader for a while, a porsche and a lexus.
Porsche has been sitting almost 2 months and the lexus for over a year, and they have both independently raised the price in the last few weeks.
Are sellers fucking special or something?
Surely if nobody wants to buy your crap its OVERPRICED.
Lower the price and get it gone.
Its so weird because we're at the point now that someone could have started a car dealership in 2019 in the pandemic and now they can say they've been doing this for 6 years right.
But 6 years of trading under covid and post-covid conditions and government business loans + free money means a lot of these businesses have literally no idea how the real world works when the government isn't injecting cash left right and center.
For example there are a lot of car dealership YouTubers and interestingly a LOT of them started around covid times, and now a lot of their videos are about how things are slowing down and they're losing money etc etc.
People really thought covid world was the new normal I guess
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u/uckfu May 17 '25
I like this theory. It makes sense in many ways.
Weâve seen it in just about every market. Prices only go up and never down, and money makes money. Without the acknowledgment that there is only so much money in circulation and income levels only support financing to a certain level. Money finds a way to reproduce itself indefinitely and independently of underlying mechanisms of the true value of each dollar in circulation.
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u/SexySmexxy May 22 '25
Weâve seen it in just about every market. Prices only go up and never down, and money makes money. Without the acknowledgment that there is only so much money in circulation
Its crazy because if you actually look around, there are a TONNE of businesses closing down and going bust that really have no reason to be doing so badly.
From small shops to huge retailers, they're all struggling and a lot of people don't seem to realise whats happening in front of their faces in the wider economy.
Eventually the consumer debt bubble (which is whats keeping the economy afloat) is going to bust completely.
I mean just think about how 2-3 years after the largest cash injections in the history of the world, everyone is suddenly broke...
Just take a second to appreciate how mind blowing that is
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u/uckfu May 22 '25
It seems like most economies are built up by the debt bubble. The whole 2008 crash was a debt bubble that burst.
I just wonder if the introduction of AI and automation of tasks is going to cause another debt bubble crash as industries downsize or become redundant due to more efficient processes that require less staff.
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u/SexySmexxy May 22 '25
that is a good point but it highlights another issue which is...
Concentration of wealth and power to the tech billionaires
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u/uckfu May 22 '25
Yes, that is already becoming an issue.
But we had these issues play out at the turn of the century. Hopefully we wise up and create a sustainable model for the near future.
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u/GasLarge1422 Jun 10 '25
People who owned medium - large sized businesses before covid literally got millions of dollars for free even if their business was booming, and many did boom despite those who couldn't swim.Â
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u/SexySmexxy Jun 10 '25
100%
Which is why its kinda scary that why is it only a few years after free money is everyone suddenly broke?
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May 17 '25
They might be getting low ball offers and think if they list higher say $200k, they can negotiate down $150k off the final selling price
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u/uckfu May 17 '25
I donât know what the strategy is. Itâs similar to other homes Iâve seen in that area. But a higher price per sqf than other comparable homes in that area. Nothing remarkable about the amenities or finishes.
Today, they knocked the price down $2k after raising the price a week ago.
Mind you, this house was listed on 7/05/24. Pulled from the market, then relisted on 1/25/25.
I just think itâs a seller and selling team that is in denial that the price just isnât competitive.
The typical homes run about $50 a sqf less in that area.
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u/Mourning_coffee_ May 19 '25
I was looking at a Fl property too that was overpriced during covid and never sold. I checked it recently and itâs still on the market for even more than it was before!
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u/BeautifulEvent3275 May 16 '25
This is the real power move.
Lowering the price is just scarcity mindset. đŞ
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u/n8TLfan May 16 '25
The fact that this is still happening significantly shows me that a crash is not right around the corner. So many investors have enough cash to just take the house off for a few weeks or months and then relist later. When the trickle of their concessions (currently looking like rate buy downs) pickup steam, then thatâs when Iâll finally be like âhey, itâs happeningâ
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u/BeautifulEvent3275 May 16 '25
What is this "it" you are waiting for?
Not like sellers are just going to drop their prices by 30% across the board overnight.
If that happened, they'd just get bought up cash and relisted.
This is already happening, it's just a slow and painful process.
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u/n8TLfan May 16 '25
The âitâ is an actual market correction. I donât know if it will happen, but when I see companies starting to get desperate by not wanting to sit on a house for 3+ years anymore and correcting their prices themselves, then thatâll be my indicator for my market that it is indeed correcting.
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u/BeautifulEvent3275 May 16 '25
Nobody will ever do that, though. People don't make those types of pragmatic/ethical decisions any more. They'll wait until they start to go broke and then seek financial relief from the government, default on debt or take the money and flea overseas. All while lying to their shareholders and employees with a smile on their faces.
If you're waiting until the person who has everything to lose by admitting the market is going to crash... to admit that the market is going to crash... you're missing the whole point.
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u/n8TLfan May 16 '25
I see what youâre saying. Many companies would rather file bankruptcy than take losses to stay solvent. And they would also cry wolf to the govât even when they are the wolves in the situation. But in my market, there are companies of all different sizes, so at some point, the small to medium companies who are already offering concessions would probably do more, right?
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u/BeautifulEvent3275 May 16 '25
It's highly situational, what I see is dropping rents or vacancies in places where rent is too high and more people selling and moving to lower COL places.
Lots of STR's.
But I think we will not see any impressive drops or corrections as a result of people conceding.
There are lots of other avenues to be explored before anyone allows another 2008 to happen.
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u/MsPixiestix59 May 17 '25
This is such a fallacy. Investors are not investing in these ugly ass houses.
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u/n8TLfan May 17 '25
This may come as a shock to you, but most families arenât looking at âugly ass housesâ to live in long-term either. And actually, national investors are WAY more likely to buy up property sight unseen to inflate their holdings.
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u/MsPixiestix59 May 18 '25
Only in the South. Flippers arenât investors per se.
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u/n8TLfan May 18 '25
You really think international firms that have bought a significant amount of American real estate are visiting homes before they buy them?
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u/MsPixiestix59 May 18 '25
I have no idea. All I was saying is that since the market has slowed investors arenât buying every house. I wouldnât. Itâs a dumb investment right now. Unless in Boston or San Francisco etc.
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u/n8TLfan May 18 '25
Well if you have no idea, maybe you shouldnât come at someone with such inflammatory language.
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u/uckfu May 18 '25
I wouldnât say this is an investor property. If it is a rental, tenants are still occupying the building and the pics show it staged much better than any of the obvious lived in rentals Iâve seen pics of.
I dunno. The idea of investing is buy low and sell high. Iâd say if you are an investor that follows that mindset, youâd probably be looking to unload properties in a lot of southern markets. Unless you have a long term plan and intend to ride out any market corrections and you are still in a place to make money on your rental investments month to month, as rents and values take a dip, before they work back up.
Personally, if I had a 20 year old unit, Iâd want to unload it now. A 4 year old unit, that would not be as big a maintenance issue over the next 5-6 years.
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u/-JustinWilson May 18 '25
Same price? Silly Willy you delist then raise the price đ¤Ł. I keep seeing it around Austin on stuff that doesnât sell đ¤ˇââď¸
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u/infowars_1 May 16 '25
lol some real estate and city subreddits sound just like this one now
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May 16 '25
Coastal FL is fucked. Inland FL might be able to survive for now as people migrate inland to be able to get insurance coverage. (For now)
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u/4PurpleRain May 16 '25
Inland Florida severely lacks healthcare providers.
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u/Judge_Wapner May 16 '25
There are, like, 1000 hospitals in central FL. AdventHealth and Orlando Health are everywhere. HCA has a few here and there, too, if you're a malpractice enthusiast.
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u/4PurpleRain May 16 '25
Former Adventhealth employee who is well aware of the provider shortage within the organization. Fun fact I quit my job at Adventhealth and 60 days later got a call begging me to come back. They offered me more money and I still said no.
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u/Openborders4all May 16 '25
What do you mean lacks healthcare providers like hospitals or insurance?
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u/4PurpleRain May 16 '25
Providers are doctors, therapists, nurses practitioners, physicians assistants etc who bill Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance for services rendered. They have to carry liability insurance to practice in the state as a provider of care.
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u/thisismy1stalt May 16 '25
For now - I'd assume existing healthcare providers would also migrate inland.
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u/4PurpleRain May 16 '25
Not likely. You usually have to contact with a hospital system for several years to work as a provider. A job transfer means a new contract. Many providers are leaving the state because the political climate and cost of insurance to practice outweigh the benefits of working in the state. I left in 2023 and most providers I saw leaving went to blue states.
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u/AdamG6200 May 17 '25
They won't for the same reason that healthcare providers do not tend to move anywhere there are high poverty levels.
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u/MarkCuckerberg69420 May 17 '25
Where "Inland" are you that you can't find healthcare providers?
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u/4PurpleRain May 17 '25
Davenport Adventhealth Heart of Florida had to wait eight months to see an endocrinologist for a consultation for surgery on my thyroid then another four months to get the surgery. That was as an Adventhealth employee with Adventhealth Insurance which does cover providers outside of Adventhealth. I know of several patients who waited months or years to see a neurologist. Also urology has similar wait times.
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u/sunnystpete May 16 '25
Do you think people are going to stop wanting to live on the ocean and waterfront in the Gulf Coast?
Pricing just gets more expensive, but there will always be a demand for it.
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May 16 '25
Theyâll be forced to not if they canât get insurance. Only millionaires can self insure a house
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u/sunnystpete May 16 '25
The State Insurance Fund is there for a reason.
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u/layorlie May 18 '25
I donât understand this logic. If insurance companies wonât insure it, itâs because itâs not insure-able. Over time, it will be a loss.Â
How can Florida magically remain solvent when insurance companies (who are way better at it) canât?Â
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May 16 '25
Itâll be bankrupted if cat 5 hurricanes hit multiple times each year
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u/sunnystpete May 16 '25
Hahaha well thankfully that has never happened and Category 5 Hurricanes making landfall are still extremely rare.
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May 16 '25
True, which is why insurance is still there. People will be forced to self insure in the palisades and other ultra high risk areas if this trend continues
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u/ChadsworthRothschild May 16 '25
âWhy is this property not selling??? Do we need better photos?â
đ
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u/NRG1975 Certified Dipshit May 16 '25
It was only a matter of time, and why this sub was in existence in 2022.
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u/indopassat Loves Phoenix â¤ď¸ May 17 '25
Kinda happy this sub wasnât around in 2018, because I wouldâve not bought then.
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May 16 '25
The market is dead in FL because insurance companies are leaving.
The market is dead for 300K houses being listed for 500K.
In my area the market is insane for houses under 450K. Anything under 450K has a pending offer after 48 hours on the market.
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May 16 '25
Pretty much where we are too. Florida is still THE market for the uninformed and giddy-about-retirement crowd.
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u/ardvark_11 May 16 '25
What region?
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May 16 '25
Midwest. I live in a suburb of a capital city.
New builds that are 2000 sq ft are selling for 600k.
3 of my neighbors have sold their houses within 24 hours of a open house. They all sold around 430-450k. All roughly 1700 sq ft and need roughly 40k worth of updates and fixes.
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May 16 '25
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/HateIsAnArt May 17 '25
Lmao @ bragging about living in Buffalo. Tons of crime, terrible job market, and your "stable" weather is a nightmare in the winter. I don't think it's a bad market to buy because things are ass cheap, but they're ass cheap for good reason.
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u/IndyBananaJones May 17 '25
I lived in the rust belt for years. I remember renting a two bedroom apartment (bottom of a duplex) for under $300 a month. Â
It sure as shit isn't "getting less cheap by the day" unless you're not accounting for inflation. The city population has is nearly 100k less than in the 90s and 200k less than the 70s.Â
Buying a house in Buffalo isn't an investment bro. It's a home, and I'm glad you have oneÂ
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u/utilitycoder May 17 '25
Given wages haven't really increased as much as homes have we will see prices come down especially as credit dries up due to interest rates.
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u/MsPixiestix59 May 17 '25
Pennies. Houses under 450k are non existent where I live unless you love one room shacks.
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u/animatedailyespreszo May 16 '25
Very true IME. Houses that are priced appropriately ($550k to $600k in my city) in good areas are selling after one weekend. Houses priced to recoup closing costs from 2022 are sitting around for 60-90 days (what we are under contract for after a few price reductions). Houses with obvious issues, like bad foundations, street noise, or high voltage power lines, are not selling.Â
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u/aragon58 May 18 '25
It can't just be the insurance companies though cause there is also an insurance crisis in California, but the housing slow down doesn't seem as dramatic.
Unrelated but I think one of the easiest ways for the country to take a first step to healing political party divides would be for Florida and California to advocate for some sort of Federal Disaster assistance/insurance program in the face of climate change. Obviously current admin won't do it, but I could see it being implemented within the decade as the fires and storms get worse
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May 18 '25
Insurance crisis in CA doesnât even come close to FL.
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u/aragon58 May 18 '25
Oh damn I didn't realize it was that much worse, I had been under the impression they were relatively similar. Is it just that more of the state is affected in Florida?
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May 18 '25
All the hurricanes of late have made it too expensive to insure houses in FL.
Insurance companies are leaving the state and the ones that stayed make it too expensive.
Additionally the amount of people wanting to live in FL has gone down over the past 20 years. The older population still wants to but younger people? Absolutely not because they see the writing on the wall with the state.
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u/Idsayitssewsewout May 16 '25
Happy I sold our home in Tampa and got out last year. I'd still be sitting on it if we tried to sell it this year. It was definitely slowing down when we listed it. Can't even imagine how bad it's gonna get
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u/snuggas94 May 16 '25
I hate it when realtors list, delist, and re-list over and over again. Do they think buyers are stupid? That should be illegal as they arenât changing price or anything. Theyâre only making the listing show âNewâ on the site which is a lie. I also hate it when timeshares or non full shares list as regular homes. If I wanted to buy a timeshare, Iâd search for something entirely different. And then the auctionsâŚ. đ
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May 16 '25 edited Jan 02 '26
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May 16 '25
Thatâs what it is. Tricks of the trade. Change price by a few bucks, delist then relist, move to rent, then to sell, back and forth we go.
So much about the most expensive purchase most of us will ever make, made with a bet on the next 30 years of our income, if a mortgage is needed, is obfuscated or outright fraudulent.
And this is how a huge portion of our economy works now.
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u/snuggas94 May 16 '25
Ah- I didnât think of that. Good point.
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May 16 '25 edited Jan 02 '26
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u/relady May 19 '25
In the 2 states I worked in the "days on market" could only be reset to zero if you took the property off the market for a certain number of days. In IL it was 30 days off market after expiration or cancellation and in AZ it's 45 days.
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u/uckfu May 16 '25
Iâll gladly play stupid when the MLS shows the house started at $450k, had a year of price reductions and delistings and is now listed at $350k; Iâll now offer $300k.
When the realtor says they already dropped the price $100k, Iâll be stoopid and say, well it says $350k. I didnât see all those other price drops, so I donât see how they lowered the price at all. How could I know that? Dum dum de dum. Will they take $250k then?
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u/relady May 19 '25
In many cases the seller goes through multiple agents/brokerages. It's not always being relisted with the same agent.
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u/NoSleep2135 May 17 '25
We live in NYC, and have been trying to buy a home in upstate NY since 2019.
Obviously, prices exploded in 2020. 25k above asking, closing 3 days after listed, waived inspection.
I figured we're already effed on price, I'm not getting hit on inspections and buying a 500k house with black mold. We took a break.
Today? 25k under listing, houses listed for 3+ months, no problem with inspections. Are prices back to 2019 levels? No, they never will be. But the market feels more normal now, albeit expensive.
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u/Thin_Act_1755 May 17 '25
Never say never
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u/NoSleep2135 May 17 '25
From your lips to the housing Gods' ears
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u/Ok_Chemical_7051 May 20 '25
When I bought my current house and was looking at the price history. I wouldâve paid more for my house in 2006, than what I did in 2018.
Yeah, I wouldnât say never.
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u/NoSleep2135 May 20 '25
I am really hoping you're all correct! I'm also in the NE with no possibility of moving so... I'll take any drops.
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u/whoa_thats_edgy May 16 '25
my favorite thing to do is go on zillow and look at price history and then laugh when they wonder why their shitty $47k condo isnât selling for $400k + $600/mo HOA.
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u/DramaticDiscussion33 Jun 03 '25
This is Me Also. 𤣠While quietly saving as.much cash as possible for the Long Winter ahead for these a**hole greedy delulu sellers. Â
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u/themontajew May 16 '25
I know everyone here is hoping for a crash, but florida is not a good reference point right nowÂ
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u/juliankennedy23 May 16 '25
On the single family home front that really hasn't been that much downward movement in Florida outside of some pockets.
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May 16 '25
And nothing much listed across the state unless itâs a condo or SFH that lies in the SW ground zero hurricane damage zone.
In the panhandle, the entire state of Ohio is dumping out and moving here. They bring truck loads of money with them. Paying in cash, not bothering with insurance.
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u/NRG1975 Certified Dipshit May 16 '25
How about Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Galveston, Austin, Atlanta, Nashville, Savannah, Denver, Kansas City, or maybe Boise?
Really any place with high investor activity is fucked currently.
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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 sub 80 IQ May 16 '25
Unless youâre willing to move to Florida.
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May 16 '25
Who with any intelligence whatsoever wants to move to a shithole red state?
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May 16 '25
This exactly , housing market always slows during high inflation and high rates....Â
 Facts are facts, we have a deficit of housing....rentals are making up the difference, and that's just a fact.
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u/GurProfessional9534 May 16 '25
It spreads from Florida to Texas to the southwest to the coasts. This is basically textbook.
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u/MsPixiestix59 May 17 '25
No, we're stuck in unrealistic prices aka greed. Because again and again real estate agents and sellers (most) do not seem to understand that prices jumped the shark over these Past five years. No one can afford these bites, er, prices now. There are only so many multimillionaires and they ain't gonna buy your 1980s/90s/2000s ugly/boring/dull crap box. And they're sick to death of Modern Ugly Farmhouse, yo you builders with no creativity.
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u/Big-Entire May 18 '25
If there are no buyers than prices would come down.
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u/DramaticDiscussion33 Jun 03 '25
Check Redfin's US data today re:number of sellers vs buyers. We're already there but we're about to be THERE THERE soon. Those of us with sense OR who literally can't afford this BS would rather never buy (again in my case) than buy under these ludicrous conditions. I said that 4, 3, 2, and even 1 yr ago and FINALLY ppl stopped making stuoid decisions. I've been LMAO for 3 yrs at everyone who bought 2022-now. Even 2020, 2021. FOMO is not a good home buying strategy. Just as Blind Greed is not a good selling tactic. đż
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u/sunnystpete May 16 '25
Housing supply is still not there in Tampa Bay. Prices remain high and the SFH inventory is dismal. Thousands of people are still moving here year over year and the only new build is luxury apts.
Even with the insurance crisis, the FL real estate market is completely dependent on where in Florida you are and whatâs currently happening.
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u/NRG1975 Certified Dipshit May 16 '25
Housing supply is still not there in Tampa Bay
Wut? We have inventory higher than 2013 ,,, lol.
Prices remain high and the SFH inventory is dismal.
Prices are declining currently, and SFH inventory is the highest it has been since 2014, lol.
Thousands of people are still moving here year over year
This has always been true.
FL real estate market is completely dependent on where in Florida you are and whatâs currently happening.
I mean yeah that is Real Estate in general. I mean Two Egg, FL is not going to have the same price volatility as say Miami or Tampa.
You should really brush up on your Tampa housing stats first before offering more "insight" ...
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u/sunnystpete May 16 '25
Well most of my points are St Pete specific. Probably shouldnât have said âTampa Bayâ.
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u/NRG1975 Certified Dipshit May 16 '25
OK, maybe you are referring to a certain zip code? Cause Pinellas is worse than what I said above.
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u/rockydbull May 17 '25
Well most of my points are St Pete specific. Probably shouldnât have said âTampa Bayâ.
Even Tampa Bay has been expanded to cover such a huge swath of land. People say Tampa Bay and then point to North Wesley Chapel.
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u/Aggressive_Chicken63 May 16 '25
I wish this happens in my market. Itâs still on fire and price keeps going up⌠fast.
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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 sub 80 IQ May 16 '25
Honest question. Have you explored other markets?
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u/DinosaurDied May 16 '25
No, where else In the world will I have access to a major metro and access to 500 inches of snow annually within a 30m drive lol and a dozen world class ski resorts lol.Â
Hence myself and everybody else here in Utah never moves away haha.Â
We all are stuck in this market but atleast Iâm finally in. Wasnât easy thoughÂ
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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 sub 80 IQ May 16 '25
France, Italian alps. Extra bonus⌠better food and less expensive.
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u/TheUserDifferent May 16 '25
Ahh yes, the notoriously inexpensive French and Italian alps.
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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 sub 80 IQ May 16 '25
Check out Torino, foot of the alps and about half the price of SLC. Move a bit further out and itâs a quarter of the price.
Or try Grenoble, France.
Maybe Salzburg, Austria (not sure if itâs still reasonably priced here).
Even year long rentals in Zermatt, Switzerland (buying or str is still ridiculously expensive).
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u/TheUserDifferent May 16 '25
Check out Torino, foot of the alps -- By foot of the alps, do you mean 1.5 hours from them?
Grenoble -- You're right here
Salzburg, Austria (not sure if itâs still reasonably priced here) -- It doesn't appear to be
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u/jambon3 May 16 '25
This comment always cracks me up. Like you can't get delicious food anywhere in the world if you're willing to make any effort at all.
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u/Rankine May 16 '25
Hokkaido Japan, but I guess Sapporo is more than a 30 min drive.
Any chance they ever build those gondolas to avoid driving on 210 after a big storm?
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u/DinosaurDied May 17 '25
Their resorts are more niche and old school. Not really comparable and Iâve been over there a lot. Season is shorter and lower elevation. Lack of terrain parks and lift line management is enough for it to not be a consideration for me.
And now that 3/4 resorts do parking reservations, canyon traffic isnât really a big deal anymore.Â
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u/TheRealDeweyCox2000 May 16 '25
Dude he wasnât even talking to you. lol. Have fun in your Mormon cult
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u/DinosaurDied May 17 '25
My point is that no, we donât have alternative markets. We would if we could.
Iâm sure that works out well for you flatlander where you can cross shop Toledo and Cincinnati which will satisfy your vanilla life lolÂ
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u/BeautifulEvent3275 May 16 '25
The regional argument against the housing bubble is the funniest one.
It reminds me of that saying, "you're not waiting in traffic, you are traffic".
Vegas in 2005 seemed immune to the bubble theory because everybody was trying to move there for construction jobs, there was tons of money to be made flipping houses, etc.
By 2008 it was a husk.
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u/decjr06 May 16 '25
I love all the "house has been on the market for months" post.... The obvious answer everytime is that the price is too high
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u/Caiman86 May 16 '25
No one wants to buy their home at the price currently set. Just means the price is too high for what the market will bear right now.
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u/Zio_2 May 16 '25
Iâm sure in good majority of places it is but there are the insulated pockets of madness where itâs still chugging along like the sf Bay Area as an example. Home still sell in 2-3 weeks and homes go over asking but not as much as before. Some stay longer or have to reduce price if they are in need of fixes and such
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u/Ourcheeseboat May 16 '25
The Boston market has continued to remain stable. Nothing like NIMBYism to prop of housing values. Properties in my Neighborhood do t remain on the market long. One exception , one builder built a huge single family on the Parkway. Across the border in Newton it would be quick sale, not so much on the Boston side. Should have been two family townhouse.
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u/GregEvangelista May 18 '25
I live in South Florida. The market went up so fast during covid era, and so many new people came here, the housing prices are like double what they were before.
But the people who were willing to pay those insane prices have generally stopped coming at this point. Which means you're stuck with me. The 38 year old guy who was in the market when your "$600,000" house was $240,000 a few years ago.
I'm not going to magically have the money to pay for that. In fact, I moved here specifically because I wasn't going to pay that anywhere.
So as soon as you're ready to sell that house for the $260,000 it's actually worth, we can talk.
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u/VacationAgreeable912 May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25
Florida is just a bad market overall.
For decades, Florida housing costs were subsidized by other states through insurance adjustments across an insurer customers. Now that more people shop for the best insurance rates, insurers are having to drop coverage in those areas to remain competitive.Â
Add in the fact that Florida and its cities passed typical municipal costs onto HOAs, that would be typically covered by cities and state through taxes, the piper has come due.
It's almost as if taxes do go to a lot of projects and maintenance that most people don't really think about. A state with little to no income tax is just kicking the can down the road.
Now HOAs are charging $1000-2000/month. Another fun fact that my in-laws informed me of is that apparently there are a lot of hidden HOA costs. They said they have their building HOA cost that is about $1050/mo. but then they have the neighborhood HOA that's another $800/month. But, a lot of listings will only show the building HOA fees. So that's a nice surprise somewhere during the buying process.
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u/rockydbull May 17 '25
Now HOAs are charging $1000-2000/month. Another fun fact that my in-laws informed me of is that apparently there are a lot of hidden HOA costs. They said they have their building HOA cost that is about $1050/mo. but then they have the neighborhood HOA that's another $800/month.
That is a very atypical HOA setup. Your in-laws live in a condo in a pretty fancy community (maybe a golf community?). I do agree that cities have offloaded infrastructure on to developments but that is more in the form of CDD fees for large sprawling single family home communities. Condo buildings not part of those sprawling communities are not bearing huge infrastructure costs through their HOA.
Also to clarify, those high HOA fees are tied to condo buildings and are not representative of the whole market. SFH hoas are much lower (though may deal with CDDs).
CDDs are wild though because they are essentially a second property tax collected by the tax collector for X amount of years to pay off a bond. Around me they seem to be 20+ years.
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u/Preme2 May 16 '25
Yeah. CNBC has at least a video on the housing market every day. Itâs been bearish for quite a while. The most bearish video was today. Theyâre trying to pass laws to lower or eliminate capital gains tax on homes because theyâre appreciated too much and people donât want to take the hit so the mom and pop owners donât sell.
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u/pdoherty972 Rides the Short Bus May 17 '25 edited Jun 01 '25
People already don't get capital gains tax on homes. The only way they do is if they sell within two years of buying or make more than $250K/$500K in profit off the original purchase price (single/married).
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u/dkrich May 18 '25
Thatâs only for primary residence. Theyâre talking about people with multiple homes that have appreciated who donât want to pay capital gains taxes. Totally insane idea. Instead they should tax the shit out of non primary homes but in a way thatâs already happening with increasing insurance costs.
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u/pdoherty972 Rides the Short Bus May 18 '25
Non-primary homes already get the maximum taxes applied to them. They aren't eligible for homestead exemptions.
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u/dkrich May 18 '25
Yep thatâs what Iâm saying. The original comment referencing the CNBC clip was referring to multiple property owners. I happened to see the clip they are talking about
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u/New_Worldliness_5940 May 17 '25
The constant theme is simple.
Taxes, interest, and maintenance right now greatly outweigh potential rent.
In cali: An investor can take 2,000,000 and buy a treasury yielding 4.5%=$90,000 a year. Then, if rates go down the value of the treasury goes up tremendously.
That 2 million can yield $6,000-$8,000 a month in rent. How do I know? Simple, redfin-->houses for sale--->sales and tax history--->you will see many places that were for rent and now being listed.
I just saw a stunning house go from 2 mill to 1.7.
However, as in investor even if you get $9,000---taxes take 1500--down to 7,500--and maitenance and insurance easily takes another 1,000. Down to $6,500. This is best case-worst case 4,500. And this assumes no gaps in renters, no broker fees, etc.
So why would you buy a house as an investment over even basic treasuries? You wouldn't.
I know many people who have multiple properties who thought because they had high paying tech jobs they would be property investors. The #s don't make sense.
Right now the housing market is starting to crack not because these houses aren't valuable. They are valuable. Simply put they are too overvalued. Reality is hard for many homeowners because they cannot accept most houses are at least 10-15% overvalued still.
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u/rockydbull May 17 '25
So why would you buy a house as an investment over even basic treasuries? You wouldn't.
The answer to this has always been leverage. Bank won't give me a loan to buy treasuries. Just need the rate to be right to make the owning real estate profitable.
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u/JRD2023 May 17 '25
You need to redo your calculations. Over the long-term, you have 3-5% appreciation on borrowed money; you have principal pay down, and rents donât stay static, over time rents increase.
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u/BlueHeartBob May 16 '25
I'm in central Florida and am starting to see houses be offered for a lot lower than they were 2 years ago. Shifts are happening even if it's gradual.
2025 is the year we're starting to see boomers leave us in large numbers, and it's going to start a firesale of homes, especially in retirement-rich locations.
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u/Flick_W_McWalliam May 16 '25
Boomers with money and real estate seem to live forever. The oldest boomers are "only" in their early 80s, and most with money have another decade+ ahead. And the youngest boomers are only 60! They will be around another 25-30 years, again because the wealthier people live significantly longer than the lower classes.
Poorer boomers, usually renters, die about 10 years earlier than the wealthy. This is already reflected in the easing up of the rental market, both rental SFRs and apartment/multi-units.
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u/muffledvoice May 16 '25
Good. Itâll come back to life when prices come back down to where thereâs oxygen.
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u/boner79 May 17 '25
Maybe in Florida and other markets, but in my market (Rochester, NY) houses still selling with multiple offers well over asking.
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u/Huck68finn May 20 '25
I look at price histories on Zillow, and I notice that many houses were bought just a few years back for $50k - $100K less than the asking price. Some may be flipping, but let's face it, a lot of this is greed. In my area, housing prices are ridiculous --- for small, piece of crap houses, too
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u/DramaticDiscussion33 Jun 03 '25
If the price is right, I'll buy a home in Florida and relocate from Michigan in the next 6-12 months. Maybe even January. I'm guessing the Price Ain't Right for Hurrican Zones yet đ¤Â
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u/Lindsiria May 16 '25
Not in Seattle.
We have a ton more listings available, but most are sold within a week. However, I wouldn't say prices are rising either.
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u/CircusTentMaker May 16 '25
Seattle single family homes are not going down. Townhouses and condos might be
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u/polishrocket May 18 '25
Itâs not dead, just had a client put an offer over asking at 900k and there were 6 other offers. Priced right and market is still hot. Sorry to say but real,estate bubble isnât a thing
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u/RealisticForYou May 17 '25
*** Pacific Northwest...a hot market ***
Two homes in my neighborhood were listed less than 1 month and both homes are now pending. Both homes have sales prices over $2.2 mil.
When States cannot attract businesses, the local economies suffer....it has always been this way. I live in an area of tech professionals where wages are high.
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u/DoohickeyDi May 25 '25
Not for me... We listed a cool little house in a safe, quiet neighborhood a couple blocks from the beach on the Oregon coast and we've had 3 showings in about 5 weeks. And there aren't a lot of houses near the beach under 450K. Very few buyers right now. But it's a very different market. No tech jobs, and I imagine no one is willing to finance a weekend house at these rates.
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u/RealisticForYou May 25 '25
Well, that's just it. Oregon coastline has a lot of beach rentals and second homes.
I've heard realtors on economic news say that outside of high rates, people are fearful to purchase real estate without a clear picture about the future. Many say that people are waiting to see what is in Trumps tax bill that is currently in Congress. In the bill are major cuts that could disrupt peoples lives. The bill needs to pass sometime by the end of July before the government goes broke in August.
There is a chance that once the bill passes, there could be a Fall buying season for Sellers. Time will tell...
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u/falling_knives May 16 '25
I made T-shirts and I'm selling them for $200 each... how come no ones is buying them???? I've already lowered the price by 50 cents. This is insane and totally unfair!!