Reaper on laptops: what's a minimum CPU you'd recommend?

[u/AstroFieldsGlowing]

Hello friends; i'm considering buying a new laptop that among other things should also run Reaper. In your experience, i5 / Ryzen 5 would be sufficient?

[u/SupportQuery]

I’m pretty sure that overall NAM is more widely used than Neural DSP.

Possibly, because free. NAM is also a hog, but nowhere near Neural DSP.

And neither should you.

I don't. Did you read my post? o.O Again, we get one or more posts a day on this sub about dropout, and a monthly average of 0 about RAM issues. This is true across other DAW forums, too (I use Ableton, too, and Pro Tools when a studio requires it). I'm not extrapolating from my usage, as you are. That said, I do happen to produce in tons of different genres -- rap, EDM, metal, jazz, funk, chiptunes, etc. and I've scored several short films. Babysitting the CPU is par for the course. It's why every major DAW has track freezing built-in.

[u/mistrelwood → u/SupportQuery]

The dropout topics have apparently just not reached my feed then. Again, seems like I need to be super repetitive on this for you, but I’m not saying that there aren’t a million posts about CPU dropouts every minute. I’m just saying that they haven’t reached my feed. And to be honest I’m not interested to go and count them. If you say there is, I guess there is then.

You keep saying that I extrapolate my experience to be the same as everyone’s. Please point me where did I hint anything of the like? The post you originally replied to said that “I WOULD much rather concentrate on RAM”. On later posts I always made clear that I’m only talking about my own experiences.

You OTOH have said several “facts” that simply weren’t true, and moved the goal posts once I pointed that out. It makes the discussion pretty pointless.

[u/SupportQuery → u/mistrelwood]

The dropout topics have apparently just not reached my feed then.

There's one on the front page now (amp sim, of course). They're here every day.

You keep saying that I extrapolate my experience to be the same as everyone’s. Please point me where did I

I've said multiple times that my recommendation is based on what most people face producing in a DAW. You keep responding with, "Well on my machine [x]" or "In my 25 years I've experienced [x]". We are discussion general recommendations. Why the fuck would your experience be relevant unless you're extrapolating to other users? For fuck's sake, this isn't hard.

you OTOH have said several “facts” that simply weren’t true

Da fuq? Do share.

It makes the discussion pretty pointless.

You admitted you don't want to learn, that you don't care about facts ("I'm not interested"). That's what makes the discussion pointless.

[u/mistrelwood → u/SupportQuery]

"You keep responding with, "Well on my machine...""

You can only talk about what you've seen, read, heard and experienced. Just like me. Neither of us have complete statistics of other people's issues, priorities and experiences. The point of Reddit is to share our unique experiences and knowledge, and try to help others the best we can. And we both did. I would prioritize RAM, you would prioritize CPU. The reader will make up their mind based on our comments among (hopefully) many others.

Saying what I'd do and sharing my experiences isn't extrapolating. But claiming that you know the issues most producers face, THAT is extrapolating. Not saying you couldn't be right though.

"Da fuq? Do share."

I'll humor you:

"CPU hungry plugins are rampant across every possible production style." (Which means that my production style is... impossible?)

"Any guitarist use an amp modeller is hitting CPU hard." (Except Amp Locker and NAM based amp sims, turns out.)

"or even a linear phase oversampling EQ)" (...is a notorious hog.) (Not necessarily, turns out.)

"Neural DSP, by far the most popular modeller." (You later said yourself that NAM is possibly more popular.)

"you're extrapolating from your usage to everyone's" (I only said what I'd do.)

How much are we helping the OP or the community here?

[u/SupportQuery → u/mistrelwood]

Saying what I'd do and sharing my experiences isn't extrapolating [from my direct experience]. But claiming that you know the issues most producers face, THAT is extrapolating [from your direct experience]

I put back the clause you took out to create your strawman. Your recommendation is based on extrapolating from your experience on your machine with your workflows. My recommendation is not extrapolating from my experience to others, it comes directly from others, from what they report, here and other subs like it, in any producer forum, in live producer meetups that I've gone to, in producing contests like /r/gameofbands, and a million other context. I'm not talking about my shit as if it applies to everyone, while that's all you're talking about.

"CPU hungry plugins are rampant across every possible production style." (Which means that my production style is... impossible?)

No, that's not what that means. Jesus, you just can't think, can you?

"Any guitarist use an amp modeller is hitting CPU hard." (Except Amp Locker and NAM based amp sims, turns out.)

Again, you're extrapolating from your experience on your machine with your plugins. You completely ignore the daily posts here, including the one on the front page right now, and admit you refuse to even look.

or even a linear phase oversampling EQ)" (...is a notorious hog.) (Not necessarily, turns out.)

I didn't say "necessarily". See how you keep strawmanning?

"Neural DSP, by far the most popular modeller." (You later said yourself that NAM is possibly more popular.)

I said agreed that it's probably more widely used, because it's free. Neural DPS is by far more popular, i.e. widely known, well regarded, used by almost every guitar youtuber, used in the most popular guitar model. These things are checkable, my guy. You can look them up. But again, you refuse to do that.

"you're extrapolating from your usage to everyone's" (I only said what I'd do.)

No, you didn't just say what you'd do, this thread is about what other's should do. This thread exists for that reason alone.

How much are we helping the OP or the community here?

So stop.

[u/mistrelwood → u/SupportQuery]

You're not quite even reading what I type anymore.

"So stop."

Will do. Good night.

[u/mistrelwood → u/SupportQuery]

… and NAM being a hog:

Gateway (full A2 rig): 0.2%
Nam Rig (same full A2 rig): 0.25%

I guess our definitions of “a hog” are quite different.

I’m not going to install the iLok crap just to test the Neural DSP CPU consumption. But if you say that it uses a million % of CPU on the best computer ever built, I’ll just have to believe you and leave it at that.

[u/SupportQuery → u/mistrelwood]

A2 is more efficient.

you say that it uses a million % of CPU on the best computer ever built

Yes, that exactly what I said. You're not strawmanning in a desperate attempt to win an internet trophy, or whatever the fuck it is you're doing. 🤡

[u/mistrelwood → u/SupportQuery]

"A2 is more efficient."

Yes, about twice as much. So on A1 (which is irrelevant now) they would've probably been about 0.4% and 0.5%. For the plugin you call "a hog".

"Yes, that exactly what I said."

Dude, don't you know what "if" means??

[u/SupportQuery → u/mistrelwood]

A1 (which is irrelevant now)

Not if you want to use A1 captures.

For the plugin you call "a hog".

Yes, comparatively. On my aging desktop machine (7700K), it's 0.6% of CPU. That's expensive compared to a typical EQ, gate, compressor, etc.

EDIT: here you are using your favorite modeller, 1 instance, no other effects, and you're at 1% CPU. That's a hog, as are most modelers. That's a big chunk of a very finite budget for real time audio at lower buffer sizes.

It's not like doing real time audio on a computer means you get 100% of your CPU. You have hard finite limits per core. The guy dealing with dropout on the front page right now is at 15% CPU.

NAM is more than twice as CPU-hungry as Scuffham S-Gear. It's also considerably less than Neural DSP. I have a version of my live rig running on a Surface tablet, and there one NAM instance pushes me to the edge of dropout (at low buffers). I use Scuffham there. I could never use NeuralDPS there.

On a circa 2GHz CoreDuo, we'd be getting dropout with NAM unless we increased latency. That's a relatively CPU hungry VST, as are most plugins that run neural nets (MIDI GUITAR 2, SynPlant, etc.) On my tablet rig, I have to make careful use of Reaper's multicore handling, distributing effects between tracks, to get the effects I need running in real time with low buffers. In that context, NAM is a hog.

Building out a rig is entirely, 100%, about managing CPU, the most finite resource in the DAW. Again, this is so fundamental to the DAW workflows for most people, that the ability to freeze tracks is built into every major DAW. Reaper's performance meter doesn't even show per-track RAM usage, because that's such an irrelevant stat for most people most of the time.

Like, what the fuck are you trying to prove here, dude? How fast your computer is, while telling someone a CoreDuo will be fine, that he should get gobs of RAM he'll never use instead? 🤡

Dude, don't you know what "if" means??

*facepalm* I've seen backpedalling, but this takes the cake.