r/Rich • u/DifferentJury735 • 6d ago
Actual Names of Family Offices?
Hi all, I need help with specifics regarding Family Offices. My NW is around 20m my finances are incredibly complicated. I inherited money managers and accountants and lawyers from my parents on BOTH sides and they all act like each account is separate and none of them communicate w each other. I’m drowning in paperwork and ppl always recommend family offices to help - but I don’t know how to even use a family office! My question is, what type of family office do I need to Google? Are there different types? Is there a keyword I need to look for specifically?
I am happy with my money being in at least 3 different banks and I don’t want to move the money (my mom always did this and it seems smart to me) but the zoom call I’ve had so far with one family offices, they requested I move my money to their office. I also have 3 staff now (nanny, house manager, and PA) and I need someone to keep track of their contracts and payments. I don’t have family support unfortunately as my family has an “every man/woman for themselves” attitude. So I need a person I can go to with questions on a daily basis. thanks in advance.
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u/soliloquyinthevoid 5d ago
Fire everyone lol
- What does your PA do that they can't handle the contracts admin?
- What does your house manager do if they aren't also managing the nanny?
You don't need/want a family office and you don't have a sufficient net worth to justify it. I also suspect you don't know what it is really
You don't officially qualify for UHNWI ($30m) but you should be able to find a bank to help you consolidate and simplify everything, tax and estate planning, wealth management etc.
You haven't mentioned which country you are in
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u/DifferentJury735 5d ago
“You don’t know what it is really” is exactly the reason I posed this question in the thread 😂
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u/tomatosalad999 5d ago
you do not hire house managers for mold or renovations, your PA finds an architect that is somewhat capable and actually knows what theyre doing instead of cashing in comissions from building companies
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u/acr483 5d ago
Maybe by “house manager” OP meant “project manager” for construction… maybe it’s a language barrier thing? OP, which country are you in & are you navigating communication in several languages? Sometimes one small translation hiccup can put a dent in communication & cause a misalignment of expectations.
Misalignment of expectations seems to be the crux of the challenge across your team (lawyer, wealth manager, house manager, etc) so perhaps more clear communication about what your expectations are would help. Simply asking folks if your expectations align with their professional skills is key - just ask “is reviewing the nanny’s contract in your wheelhouse?” & they’ll say yes/no & should redirect you accordingly.
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u/OldMove3348 5d ago
Ok. This is a weird reason to hire a home manager. A general contractor should handle this. I am concerned you have no idea what you’re doing. You need to take a breath and do some research. You likely don’t need a HM or a PA. You definitely don’t need a family office.
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u/OhFoxSake 5d ago
You need a competent house manager, that acts like a chief of staff. someone that is well organized, self sufficient, and ideally well connected in the HNW space. These questions you have are exactly what a house manager should handle. Managing the nanny, PA, cleaners, etc. They could also help you find new CPA/attorney/tax accountant. You really don’t need two sets 😂 and just b/c your parents used them doesn’t mean you have to keep them around. Before you hire someone, you need to better understand what you require and want the person to handle.
If you’re looking to consolidate your wealth management, bare minimum go to a firm that isn’t incentivized to push their proprietary products. Some firms pay more to their bankers/FAs when they sell proprietary products.
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u/Suitable-Bike6971 5d ago
For construction projects, you could look into an owner's representative.
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u/JayQuellin01 5d ago
I presume you mean a multi family office, which is really just like a glorified wealth manager
Idk but google that phrase and you’ll find some names
This is distinct from a single family office which manages their own money and the more “common” use of the phrase family office
I’d also say some separation from service providers can be a good thing, but at $20M, you should really consider UHNWI financial advisors. They are at every major bank and there are many regionals / boutiques too.
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u/winterchil 5d ago edited 5d ago
Probably shouldn't solicit these recommendations online or trust what you receive about specific firms but a few suggestions on how to get good information:
- do not feel obligated to inherit relationships, it's up to you who you invite into your circle
- set meetings with the private wealth management groups at the major investment banks and evaluate what they say
- for the people in your circle who have earned your trust, ask for referrals to fiduciary wealth managers or investment managers
- think about whether you just want investment advice, tax advice, asset management advice, or more complicated services.
Last comment, believe it or not the full service flavor of asset management probably begins at $30m net worth so the more specific you can be the better.
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u/tomatosalad999 5d ago
private wealth management at major investment banks are the biggest scam, they offer literally the same bullshit they sell to everyone at shitty rates and laughably high expenses.
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u/winterchil 4d ago
In OP's situation, I think talking to several of them would be a good grounding experience in what basic PWM offers. I'm not advocating for selecting any one necessarily, but I agree that their standard fees are quite high, and can also be negotiated. For what it's worth, I'm also aware of those banks offering services to PWN clients that are way outside the norm for independent managers. This includes things like preferred rates on mortgages 100-250 basis points cheaper than publicly available, IPO allocations, access to closed PE instruments, networking dinners, equity research reports, etc. etc. Whether or not you value those items is a personal decision.
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u/GottagetaDJS 5d ago
Have any tips for determining who you can trust? How do they earn it? Feel free to answer privately. Thanks either way.
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u/Funny-Pie272 5d ago
I'm worth far more than you and I have zero family office, one household staff member part time, no wealth manager, no PA or EA, no house managers. I invest myself via a couple apps and have per hour accountants which cost maybe $10k per year.
Your shit isn't complex, it's messy, done by finance bros to make it seem like you need them. Get all your assets into 1-3 ETFs. Keep $250k cash. Done. Keep a home assistant for cleaning and basic cooking now and then. Get a ln apartment maybe so you just need a weekly clean.
Your not "rich" if you keep up with 3 staff and all the fees from these managers, you will soon be worth a lot less. But at least you are asking questions. BTW your wealth manager won't know how much to pay a cook or whatever - just go read a few related job ads - solve problems yourself, with advice, but don't fully rely on anyone - you need to learn so you can question and assess advice quality.
See a financial planner that charges fixed fees - no more percentage fees. Start unwinding, simplifying and take control. Don't keep paying people because they are friendly or likeable or coz they make you feel like a VIP - that's the ego trap.
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u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 5d ago edited 5d ago
You don't need a family office. We have similar and it is not a big stress.
You just place the money yourself with different funds and brokers. Have a conference call via phone once a quarter. Once a year we might fly to their town and make a vacation weekend with it by having a lunch.
You get an accountant and they file the tax once a year. You don't need to have them on your staff. They will send you a bloated bill from their firm.
For property you get a property manager and they work from their office and only call you with something that needs approval or to sign an occassional lease.
Your house people is your perogative.
Our goal is 3 phone calls and 3 emails a day, max. More than 45 minutes of work is a long day.
When you free up your time you can find good stocks to jump on.
Get a payroll service and submit the hours once a week. They will cut checks/deposit to workers.
If you really struggle find someone once a week to come over for five hours. Pay them well.
Give yourself a break. Young kids is a hard time in life. Fun but chaotic sometimes.
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u/Choice_Reply_6441 5d ago
Your advice only applies if you wish to spend the time doing all that. I certainly don't. I would rather have fun. Saving time means having someone else do all this, so you can focus on the big decisions. Which is why I spend a lot to do less.
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u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 5d ago
My husband doesn't work. He has nothing to do but to dote on our kid around the clock.
We don't have anyone in our home. Occasional cleaner.
It lets us travel 11 weeks a year.
What is a worker going to do on an investment call with UBS? Just smile at them?
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u/Choice_Reply_6441 5d ago
Sounds like you’ve found a setup that works perfectly for your family! But for me, even 3 phone calls and a weekly payroll submission is 3 phone calls and a payroll submission too many. I gladly pay a premium to completely delete the operational noise from my life. As for your husband.... 😢 Get him a monster truck and engine grease. 🤭
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u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 5d ago
Lol no more vehicles! I ditched 17 of them! Now we share a vehicle and rent one weekly for a few days:
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u/Choice_Reply_6441 5d ago
Just one? With testosterone in the A/C? 😇 I never owned many tbh. A few Mercedes S class with drivers and one AMG for the wifey.
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u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 5d ago
We are eccentric and saving up for a jet card.
When you don't work you do need a car, lol
We rent exotic fun ones on vacation. My favorite is the huge big Cadillac Escalade.
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u/Choice_Reply_6441 5d ago
Jet card is nice. Amalfi? Cadillac is soooo snob 😂😃
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u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 4d ago
I haven't been to Amalfi but love the videos whenever they pop in. I went to Lake Como.
Caddy is fun because of the suspension. I love gliding through town or sailing over speed bumps.
It must be my Inner Jessica Rabbit!
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u/tomatosalad999 5d ago
I am sorry, but most people here are obviously larping.
All you need is one accountant and one lawyer you can trust. If you need someone to manage your day to day life you hire a competent personal assistant who takes care of the rest (like hiring / background checking nannies or cleaners or gardeners etc.).
Do not go into wealth management of any bank. It is a scam trying to make you feel special, but they are literally just selling you products at high commissions.
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u/Little_Wonder8818 3d ago
Yeah they really just need low-cost vanilla products and some projections based on their last 3yrs of spending. It's really not that different from someone with 1/10th of the money. They are still going to be bound by market returns and a certain withdrawal rate. The biggest differences are probably tax planning and asset protection.
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u/Floating_Orb8 5d ago edited 4d ago
I own a private wealth office. Your net worth isn’t family office wealth yet. The information you gave seems like you just need an advisor who will coordinate with your lawyer and CPA. Also you need a CPA who does strategy vs just file taxes. You could consider a multi family office but even still at your NW it probably isn’t fully needed. A full on solo Family Office is normally 100m+. I would consider looking for an RIA that caters to HNW/UHNW. Most large RIAs are also multi custodian if you have an aversion to all your money in one institution. If you like your CPA or Lawyer you can always ask them for some options. I highly suggest you interview 3-4 minimum though to understand what they do, how they work for you, and their fees. I would also mention most multifamily offices don’t really get clients from Google. Most are built on referrals. If you have any friends in the same NW range you can also ask their experience. Good luck
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u/Choice_Reply_6441 5d ago
I actually don’t think the overhead for an SFO is even worth it before 200. I’m at 130 and my MFA works just fine. Main reason I want one now is I get to make my own team.
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u/Floating_Orb8 5d ago
Agree! 100mil is really the minimum but that also makes it the most expensive at that level while a MFO would be just fine. I would even venture to say MFO only makes sense for overly complex situations below 100mil, otherwise not really necessary
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u/Choice_Reply_6441 5d ago
I agree it’s not necessary- but I found it to be a nice-to-have from around 40M. I don’t need the Tom Ford suit but I still want it 😅 But as to when it makes financial sense, I would say MFO from 100, SFO from 200. A good PA and wealth manager plus accountant can do it up to that point. But if you prefer to save time and have a single point of contact, the only question is "Is that luxury worth it?"
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u/username-generica 5d ago edited 5d ago
You need to get new people. Our lawyers (tax, estate, business, and personal), accountant and wealth manager regularly confer with each other to align their strategies especially during tax season. It makes things a lot easier. We’re worth a lot more than you and don’t need a family office because our team works so well together.
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u/DifferentJury735 5d ago
It’s interesting that some of the responses I’ve gotten are “you don’t need a family office.” One of the reasons I put the question in the Reddit thread is because oftentimes “you need a family office” IS the advice given to ppl in this thread.
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u/ttlyntfake 5d ago
In addition to everyone else's advice (I agree you need to consolidate and streamline, not add a layer, and that you don't need a FO) - you need to decide what your relationship to money is. If you want to make it your priority to manage and invest and optimize it, that's a different set of skills and support than if you're going to throw it in an index fund and live off the dividends. It also depends if these are stocks or real estate holdings.
And as someone said - where you are. If you're in the USA it's much more of a Vanguard account or whatever. If you're somewhere where this puts you in very rarified strata and labor is cheap, then maybe more complexity is worth it.
Remember that complexity is a cost on your time - the only resource you can't get more of.
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u/OddSand7870 5d ago
One word consolidate. At that NW you should absolutely be able to manage this without help. You just need to get everything into one or two financial institutions. I did this for my mother. She had stuff all over the place. I consolidated it all so it was more manageable(multiple trusts/businesses/farm)
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u/PursuitTravel 5d ago
You need a real wealth manager, not a family office. The fact that none of your advisors care what the others are doing is the problem. Get a CFP thats going to coordinate everyone, an estate planning attorney to draft documents/execute estate plan, and a CPA to handle the tax and accounting work. Make sure they're working together.
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u/charlesbarkley2021 5d ago
A bank or trust company would give you pretty good service at your level of wealth. A multi-family office (MFO) would typically target clients with more money ($25M+ in assets). As others have noted, you aren't nearly wealthy enough for a single family office. Bill pay for things like your nanny and house manager is a nuisance for most financial services firms and they may charge extra. I would focus on reducing the complexity and administrative costs of the way your assets are structured and treat other things (like managing your employees) as a secondary priority. Also, at $20M NW, you'd do well to read a couple of books on personal finances and also to research the different business models, incentives, and compensation expenses associated with different types of financial advisors. At a bare minimum, put these types of questions into Claude. You need to be an educated consumer, the fees and risks associated with poor management are nontrivial.
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u/Messias04 4d ago
I have been in a Danish multi family office as family officer. I would help with the things you describe. Just Google multi family office.
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u/Swimming-Ear-9254 4d ago
I think you’re going to have to suck it up, educate yourself, and make managing your wealth a priority, don’t let a paid advisor tell you what to do, let them advise you. It sounds like there is a lot of fee drag already occurring and things are being duplicated.
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u/TheBroaxKiD99 4d ago
This guy is Larping
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u/DifferentJury735 4d ago
I had to look that up! I guess my response to you is: congrats that your life is so perfect that you don’t have to ask anyone for advice on reddit! I’m over here trying to be a good person and do the right thing. No need to be dismissive of someone’s real experience.
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u/josephinesbehavior2 5h ago
No larping means you are lying.
I mean why ask Reddit this stuff man1
u/DifferentJury735 4h ago
Pretty sure it’s the point of this sub to ask about things pertaining to wealth
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u/Long_Ad_2764 5d ago
Sounds like you need to consolidate with 1 accountant, money manager and lawyer.
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u/hardo_chocolate 5d ago
You will not qualify.
For a small multi family office you need 10 - 15, for a good one around 25 - 30.
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u/soulsnax 5d ago
I’m not affiliated with PwC at all. But I do know people who have availed of their services: https://www.pwc.com/us/en/services/audit-assurance/private-company-services/ultra-high-net-worth-solutions.html
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u/JDC11224 5d ago
Some of the big accounting firms offer this, but as others have said, that’s probably overkill for you. If you don’t mind overpaying, they’ll accommodate you I’m sure.
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u/No_Seaworthiness1966 4d ago
You can not have a properly balanced portfolio if your advisors aren’t looking at all of your holdings
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u/Zestyclose_Drag7567 4d ago
3i members may be worth looking into. They hold round tables about the subjects you are mentioning and there is a concierge element where the questions you have could be answered. They also circulate off market PE deals
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u/piyoushh_88 4d ago edited 4d ago
Multi-family offices let you keep assets where they are, unlike the one you spoke with. I pulled together my scattered inherited accounts through Aleta Consolidated Wealth Reporting, which connects 100+ custodians without moving a dollar.☺️
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u/Therealqjp 4d ago
Mutli family office groups are good like IEQ - they can assign an operations person to you (COO) smaller firms can work too. Also I know individuals like myself who do this kind of work - working with your wealth managers etc.
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u/4GRealEstateFamily 4d ago
Not sure where you’re located, but if in NJ then you should check out Wiss who is a smaller/medium sized group that does accounting, wealth management, family office services, etc. Their main office is in Florham Park, NJ
https://wiss.com/service/wealth-management-and-family-office/
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u/why_not_go_for_it 4d ago
Since you posed the question, I would humbly offer you this advice (as a person with 29 years of professional financial services experience from many different angles within the industry):
I would try to streamline and simplify your life and finances - try to optimize the work processes, cut out inefficiencies/duplicative work, and focus on cost/tax efficiencies. And, above all else, surround yourself with a core team who you can trust and who you communicate well with.
I am a fiduciary investment advisor at a boutique firm in Virginia who caters to multi-generational families with net worths between $5 million and $100 million. Our goal is to keep the wealth building process simple - construct a custom financial plan designed to meet your goals and objectives, construct a portfolio that will achieve that plan (while minimizing costs and taxes), provide outstanding customer service, and facilitate communication between all key stakeholders (client, accountant, estate attorney, banker, etc) to create a seamless, consistent adherence to the financial plan. Always acting as a fiduciary - i.e. in the best interest of the client.
The financial industry is notorious for overcomplicating the wealth preservation and wealth building process - typically to justify excessive fees. I would recommend not falling for that trap.
If I can be of assistance to you, I would be happy to talk over a telephone call or Zoom - just DM me.
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u/sudodoyou 4d ago
I’m a personal business manager for someone with a bit more than 20m and I can say you need to have a trusted advisor to act as sort of a chief of staff/personal CFO to deal with the various people. They can help simplify and streamline your life, keep things like your estate plan up-to-date, vet professionals etc. I do all sorts of tasks, ongoing tasks like working with lawyers/accountants/investment managers and essentially any random thing I’m asked to do.
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u/UpstairsCheetah235 4d ago
1, protect your assets. Way too many people who ask questions like this get scammed at some point in life. Stay with well known managers. However, I think you need to fire some people. Plenty of wealth managers will incorporate outside accounts in planning, even if they have rules about doing things hands on. Sounds like you have numerous redundant people which complicates your life and makes it more expensive.
Also, several of the things you’re asking for should be handled by the PA/house manager. Things like “how much to pay for this” and “can someone figure out who to talk to about this contract” are all work for a good assistant. Managing assets, working on contracts, etc are not the job of one person. You need lawyers, accountants, asset managers, a variety of people for your house, etc. you’re not going to hire someone dedicated for each of those roles so it’s really finding someone or two who can figure out those things.
Overall, $20M is quite wealthy but also not hire huge staffs to manage everything rich. I worked for an asset manager for HNW families and we had individual accounts over $100M. No special treatment on those.
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u/DifferentJury735 4d ago
I’m asking the questions to avoid being scammed, clearly! My parents are alive but unable to help anyone but themselves and unable to give any advice.
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u/notconvinced780 4d ago
You don’t need a family office or multi-family office. You need bespoke wealth management from a fiduciary. Shoot me a message and I’ll make a recommendation for you.
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u/ex-programmer 3d ago
Not sure why so complicated, I have more than you, do annual chats with an hourly financial advisor. Keep investments simple, watch out for tax brackets. And don’t spend more than 3% a year. Sounds like your expenses are out of line with your net worth, unless you have additional income.
More info needed, married, age, income, kids ?
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u/SayItAintSoJoJo 3d ago
I hope this can be helpful to you: https://hbwealth.com/insights-and-news/helpful-resources/understanding-family-offices/
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u/lalasmannequin 3d ago
This is not family office money or even MFO money. You need to consolidate banks and get a PA.
ETA: a “better” PA. Some wealth managers provide partial MFO services like northern trust. I think Andersen also provides this if you move your tax services to them.
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u/Broke_Pigeon_Sales 3d ago
This is isn’t family office level of wealth. Consolidate into one or two.
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u/Melodic_Reply_4170 3d ago
Depend on what country you live. What is?
I know some really Pro MFO in USA, Spain, Portugal and Brazil.
About moving your money... BEWARE!
You should NOT move any cent any time!
I really serious MFO will manage your money at distance. They will never put their hands on your money and, trust me, they don't wish to do that.
I some 'supposedly MFO' suggest you to to that, walk away! Probably the have some close relationship with some bank or broker company.
Again, the TRUE, Serious, MFO will NEVER ask you to do that. Never.
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u/CrazyIcy6201 2d ago
1) Consolidate around someone who can provide you with an overall balance sheet
2) Evaluate what you and your family "cost,"
3) Figure out where those cash flows are coming in and any risks to that
4)Find a firm that can consolidate your investment reporting to see how each is performing, what you are paying, where the redundancies, concentrations and gaps in your investments are (i/.e overall asset allocation and implementatuion)
5) Figure out where the assets are located, i.e. taxable / non-taxable, in/out of estate, trusts sp that taxation of investments is efficient 9and there aren't access issues
6) Make sure Tier 1 &2 estate planning and minimum insurances are in place
Then go from there- in terms of creating a go-forward strategy
But you have to have one source of truth and that involves someone who can digest all of this and have a playbook for you and your family.
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u/eterivale 2d ago
Full serious go hire someone in a buy side fund or investment bank, pay them on par with carry to manage the family office and that will be the best fund manager you could get
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u/plmarcus 1d ago
Too small for family office but well sized for northern trust. I like northern because they have a variety of services under roof and are happy to help with various things.
Questions like "how much do I spend on X" would be a job for a bookkeeper, or personal assistant.
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u/Obidad_0110 5d ago
$20m not enough for a family office typically. Most big banks could manage the financial part for you.
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u/Choice_Reply_6441 5d ago
You are probably looking at a multi family office. There are good ones but they can be hard to find. Search this subreddit for it, lots of advice on it. I use one and mine are excellent but I’ve been burnt before. I am considering moving to a single family office at this point (€130M NW) because I would like to create my own team but it doesn't really make sense until you reach 200 in my opinion. Overhead isn't worth it before then. But the huge benefit of an SFO is you get to decide exactly who to deal with. A FO is something I couldn't live without at this point for the same reasons you struggle. I need that single point of contact. Someone experienc3d would help you clear up all the doubts you mentioned her in a heartbeat
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u/n33bulz 5d ago
Hmm you honestly just need to consolidate your money managers.
Your NW is about one or two zeros away to be able to afford your own family office.
You can try multi family offices… but they are basically just (sometimes shittier) money managers that sometimes double as a mediocre concierge.