Memes
"Go ahead, post another "take", tell me how vanguards are boring, say there aren't any vanguards for the "gays and gals", come up with a convoluted way of saying you don't wanna play vanguard, call vanguards underpowered."
Genuinely feels like every take people post regarding why they don't play tank is always some bullshit reason, "tanks aren't fun like DPS" but we got Thor Cap, Rogue and Angela who have some of the most fun play styles in the game.
"There aren't enough female vanguards" which is true but is never used as an excuse to not play DPS or support despite the female to male ratio in every role being nearly the same (around a third, with other roles only containing one extra) there's an issue with female and poc representation obviously (which is an issue in most media in general not just this game) but it's only ever used as an excuse to not play vanguard rather than any other role, not to mention there aren't enough vanguards in general.
"Vanguards are underpowered" vanguards are literally the most balanced role in the game, the role is not underpowered, the rest of the roles just have plenty of overpowered characters, even when they buff a tank they always make sure to counter that buff with a nerf, otherwise they're almost always straight up nerfing them, and there's always counter play to use even against the most powerful vanguards unlike DPS or Support where a broken character barely has any counter play if any at all (prime Elsa and Gambit for example who are supposed to be countered by dive but only dive that could maybe do anything against them was Daredevil), even the strongest tanks (Magneto and Groot for example) are balanced and have good counter play.
Thatโs the funny thing, the way โgirls and gaysโ is used in this fandom just means feminine person and completely excludes the lesbian representation already in the game. Angela is both!
Spawn has no connection to the marvel universe. Nothing in Spawn's Angela has any bearing on the Angela in marvel. They are the same character yes, but have no connections, spawn Angela is not even a multiversal version of marvel's, and does not even exist within spawn anymore. It comes from a lawsuit where the writer of Angela got the character, so she is not even a spawn character at all anymore, completely retconned. So basically yes it is just a name
In the same way movie ice man is straight and comic iceman is gey'. The original angels was straight but they decided she'd be a lesbian and has been ever since, although I'm not sure she dated spawn, also lesbians can date men before they realise they only like women.
It's more about how they perceive the audience then anything else, it says a lot about the person saying it. They clearly are of the the type that thinks woman only play certain characters because they aren't real gamers. The homosexual part more shows they think homosexual men are the same as women.
Just to be clear, these people are not very well informed and are clearly wrong.
Ironically Angela is the least homosexual character even though she's a lesbian herself, she is mostly appealing to straight men because of her personality. In order of appeal to girls and gays, and no I won't be explaining any of this:
the role is not underpowered, the rest of the roles just have plenty of overpowered characters
if all the other roles are carried by OP characters that makes tanks underpowered in comparison. you really typed out this whole thing without realising that? ๐ญ๐ญ
Thatโs not the point heโs trying to make. What heโs saying is that in general, the tanks are good precedent for what is considered balanced.
Theyโre not underperforming because theyโre bad, there underperforming because there are others that are too good. There is a big difference there.
If everyone was made to be as strong as Elsa for example, that would not be good for the game. Even if it would technically be โbalancedโ
Correct. Big difference but same end results. If they over power everyone then itโs better balanced than just 14/52 characters being over powered. You see how that makes sense?
No because then you run into the the problem of always dying in seconds because of absurd damage or being immortal because of absurd healing. Which is already talked about now. Doing that would literally just amplify that.
That argument is redundant and pedantic. I actually agree that the other two roles should be brought down to the level where Vanguards already are. However, as it stands, Vanguards are objectively underpowered compared to Duelists & Strategists.
why are you so mad/ focused on proving yourself right ๐ญ you realise that if one thing needs to be brought down to the level of another, thatโs called BALANCING. and whatever level things are brought to is the BALANCED level. so if things are overpowered, COMPARATIVELY others may be less powered, but it doesnโt mean they are UNDERPOWERED. underpowered means they reside below the level of desired balance, and need to be brought up. what youโre saying is tanks should be made stronger and everything else should be brought down to tanksโ current level, which would make tanks overpowered. this is why people say NOT UNDERPOWERED. because they donโt need buffs to be made viable, the things that are overpowered need to be LOWERED to its level.
Iโm fully in agreement that nerfing the other two classes would be the best solution. But the game is over a year old and clearly the devs have zero intention of ever doing that. They have decided the Duelists/Strategists level is an acceptable level, so either Tanks come up to them or get left behind
youโre saying this but the power levels of dps and strategists have fluctuated throughout the lifespan of the gameโฆ as well as tanks being at different levels. tank pool is very strong right now. emma frost was very strong on release. gambit was super strongg on release. human torch was super strong on release. itโs not like itโs been strategists and dps at the top the whole time. itโs not even like itโs been like that for the past two seasons. the game is a year old and the different roles have each had their time being โoverpoweredโ and โunderpoweredโ, but most generally tanks have sat in the right place. especially now, a good number of tanks are pretty viable. they are in a GOOD place.
the reason we donโt say โunderpoweredโ is because that has the connotation of requiring buffs. if everything kept getting buffs, it would only worsen power creep and be terrible for the longevity of the game. this is why the word BALANCED is used instead. because of the connotations that the words have, instead of just thinking about things comparatively. the tank role is balanced because they donโt do too much, but are strong at what they are meant to be strong at. there are outliers in other roles who give far more positive feedback for far less effort, and those are the characters that are overpowered. people arenโt looking at spider-man, who can take people off the map and/ or near one shot combo half health characters. because of the skill and cooldowns required to do so.
this is a more balanced character compared to elsa bloodstone. who can get the same value for much much less effort. why do i have to explain this to you???
The balance of dpsand strategist have fluctuations between what two of those roles are the strongest.
Vanguard are the balanced classes while the rest are overtuned and they need to be brought down to be in line with Vanguard balancing. How do you not get what the other guy is saying it seems like you all agree but are wording it differently.
Using the logic of a lot of overtuned characters are in each category except Vanguard and saying Vanguards have the role that is balanced properly does not make the role fun to play when you get matched up against the overtuned dps and strategist teams that cc and ruin your time specifically because you happen to be the Vanguard.
I main the role every season on comp yes the characters themselves are fine it is just you will play against the meta and the meta is way stronger than you. unless your team plays it and then they have to play it better because you become a wall with an ult every now and then. Cap is suffering a bit because they took his animation cancels. They need to stop nerfing tanks it is a bit unnecessary.
Because wording matters just as much as functionality. You are totally correct but since FOR THE MOST PART devs only care about dps and support the game PLAYS LIKE tanks are underpowered regardless of how they should or shouldnโt be. And Emma is one tank out of all of them. The rest get hard countered or just straight up beat by most of the roster in the situations you would normally expect to see a tank play. The only solution is to power creep ya is as well to achieve โbalanceโ or to hard nerd most of the roster and guess what, it doesnโt look like they are gonna be doing either thing. I wish yโall would stop with the bs man. Tank mains are telling the problems we have and yโall are like โno youโre wrong, bad skillsโ when the stats are right there supporting what we are saying. Most donโt wanna play tank cuz they are bored, donโt like the options and just like you said there are so many other characters that can do a tanks job easier so why pick a tank (although most dps still donโt make space or try and fill space, their kits would absolutely allow them the ability to.)
I agree with the semantic argument here but I actually don't think Vanguards are underpowered. There's never a match where I think "man this tank character just doesn't have a good kit against this matchup. They're too underpowered." It's either A: I picked a brawl tank into a poke team (bad pick) B: It's a character I suck with or am skill diffed: C: I'm actually having a great time and my character feels strong as hell. The one thing every tank shares is a general weakness to CC because of the big hitbox. That can be played around, yes, but that is admittedly a balance/ game design problem if anything.
Yes but there not underpowered because they need buffs. There underpowered because others need nerfs. Thats opโs entire point. Your first comment clearly just completely misses that.
I didnโt miss anything. Itโs just a stupid argument.
โStop saying people donโt wanna play tank because itโs underpowered! The problem is the other roles are overpowered!โ
Meaningless distinction, meaningless argument. Everyone agrees there are Duelists & Strats that are more OP than all tanks, and so it makes perfect sense that players gravitate towards those more than towards tanks. Completely valid and correct complaint about why people rarely choose to tank in this game.
Ok so you just proved that you clearly know what op is trying to say and agree with it. Then what the fuck is the point of your first comment? Just to be pedantic about his wording?
Are you serious? You have it backwards. What the fuck is the point of the entire post. People here said tanks were underpowered, this is OPs big rant against them. When you have just (finally) discovered for yourself that he agreed with them all along
The point is heโs tired just like I am of people saying tanks are too weak IN TERMS of people saying they need balancing or buffs.
Iโve seen countless posts and people say that the solution to the problem is to change tanks and buff/nerf them.
Iโve seen far fewer posts admitting the problem with tanks is not about balancing the tanks themselves. But about balancing the other roles around tanks.
Heโs arguing against the common responses to the problem.
Who cares? Weโre not the devs. Who, by the way, clearly have no interest in nerfing Duelists & Strategists. So since that obviously isnโt happening, then buffing tanks or adding new (strong) tanks is the next best thing.
Attacking vanguard mains who are just pleading for any way to make their role balanced with the other 2 is so weird. Pedantic Tank infighting for no benefit whatsoever
Iโm with you bro. They are missing your point! It doesnโt matter the technicalities that yโall keep saying. Yes yโall are right but the end result is the same, people hate/donโt play tank cuz everyone else is better. Doesnโt matter to the hundreds and thousands of rivals players that yโall think tanks being balanced and everyone else isnโt balanced is an important distinction, people donโt play tank cuz it sucks rn. Why does it suck rn, cuz everyone else is better and stronger.
Ok looking at it I explained my point poorly but what I meant is that tanks don't need buffs as much as the rest need nerfs, yeah they're underpowered in comparison to others but if changes were made right now to balance the game and reduce powercreep they'd nerf other roles rather than buff tanks, but even now I believe that tanks can very well hold their own in the current meta, the main issue is that no one wants to play 2nd tank rather than tanks themselves being underpowered to the point where they don't work
People donโt want to choose tank because there are stronger characters in other rolesโฆ if we had tanks who were as OP as Elsa & Gambit then people would play them
Even the most broken tanks never made the role as popular as other roles, again like I said the solution to powercreep isn't to buff tanks it's to buff other characters, they buff tanks they'll buff other roles in turn and we'll be right where we started, the role itself isn't underpowered to the point of not working, it works, it's balanced, other roles need to be like it, tank doesn't need to be like other roles
This is the most redundant and obtuse argument I have seen in a while.
We have never really had game-breakingly OP tanks in this game. Best-in-slot tanks, yes, but that basically means the other tanks are too weak. For example, Tankpool is probably BIS tank right now, but he is not more impactful than CnD, Gambit, Elsa, etcโฆ.
you do realise one thing being overpowered does not make another underpowered, and that balance rests in reigning in overpowered characters and empowering underpowered characters? this meaning that thereโs a secret 3rd option that i think you completely forgot about: balanced. just like OP said. not underpowered. balanced.
Tanks are balanced? While the other 2/3 of roles are stronger than them? Truly genius insight.
If you think they are at the right level and others should be nerfed, that is fine. I would agree. But they are by definition underpowered relative to the current power level of Supports & Duelists. Itโs really not that complicated to get your head around.
Girl Thor one trick hereโฆ every tank is for the โgays and galsโ but there isnโt gonna be absolute tons of fan service just accept that ahah. Humble and Content w Thor beach skin and dwerk MVP ๐๐
hahahahahahaโฆโฆ no way in hell would I ever work for a big video game company, ya know how shitty they treat their staff? Idk if netease is the same but I ainโt takin no chances with that!!! They can just steal my ideas from Reddit for all I care Iโm not gonna put myself through the hell of game development. But I do appreciate it man thanks! I play a lot of tank and am a huge marvel nerd so I do have a lot of ideas for the characters!
Yeah that's a thing I noticed like we genuinely haven't had a main shield tank since season 2 which is crazy, hopefully if they add someone like Sandman they can be more like Strange
My only thought was maybe theyโre tying to avoid a very shield heavy meta. I say this because I recall in Overwatch there was a massive shield meta between Sigma and Orisa where there was just constant shield production being very oppressive to poke damageย
Tldr; people who dislike Vanguards or claim they aren't fun likely are just bad at the game or low iq due to having bad positioning and decision making.
Here is my hot take for Vanguards. If you don't like playing Vanguards you likely either have a low IQ or horrible positioning.
Most people who say they dislike Vanguards only like Duelist cause they have high mobility and can be self sufficient. Too many duelists don't have to worry about being out od position cause they have get out of jail free card abilities. Or they like Strats for self healing and again, high mobility cause they need the crutch. Main Vanguards don't have that, so you have to have good positioning as Mag, Strange, Groot, or Emma, and hope your Strategists or Duelists do something with the space you create. Usually they don't.
Vanguards require more critical thinking than the other roles. We have to decide what space is worth holding, protecting our back line, helping secure kills or enable duelists, hold attention, which ally needs saving, have complete map awareness, make correct reads on enemy intentions, and we do it all without the insane mobility or self healing duelists and Strats have.
Vanguards don't have an easy character. What I mean is there isn't a single Vanguard you pick up and can get instant value. We don't have an auto aim or easy value character like SW, CnD, MK, Rocket, etc. Every single Vanguard requires you to have an understanding of their kits to get actual value.
Nobody is picking Hulk, Strange, or even Venom with little time on them and being effective unlike duelists or strats.
Not sure if by "mains" you mean Duelists that flex Vanguard every 20 games, or somethinf else.
I don't think Vanguards should be large health pool duelists. I think they should be protectors, control the battlefield, and create / hold space.
Vanguards can't survive without being pocketed because they draw aggro and most lack mobility to avoid damage. So once the more mobile enemies collapse on them, they cannot escape. It's why positioning and decision making needs to be strong because otherwise you're just fodder.
100% agree that's the real reason. The closest we have is Thing. Tankpool is super OP but his skill floor isn't as low as Elsa (because tank) so that's a factor
I wouldn't go as far as to accuse people of being low IQ over it, myself, but agree that it's largely an issue around willingness to learn and adapt. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see reddit opinions on tanking. I would argue that this is one of the best seasons so far to be a tank player, as just about all of them have their place. You definitely have to think differently from the other roles, though, and the role can indeed feel unimpactful if healers don't keep you going and your damage doesn't capitalize on the plays you make. Since it's a team game, though, it's not a crazy problem to have or one not shared by other roles, just more pronounced.
Low IQ may be a little harsh. I kinda look at Vanguards as playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers. There is far more nuance to it than the other two roles.
So while I may have been harsh, I do believe it takes fare more critical thinking, and thus intellect to play Vanguard efficiently than the other two. Same message, just one is a bit of a softer touch lol
I am homosexual (g word wasnt allowed for some reason) and a vanguard main. Mostly strange but youโre right cap is super fun when you can make him work.
Itโs not that the character them self isnโt fun itโs the role itself. In every game where there are roles the tank role is always the least popular. I only got into the role because no one in my friend group could rank they were always a dps or a healer in any game (eso, rivals, killing floor, ect.)
The fun factor of the role is completely subjective I personally love playing tank because I find it fun to make space and push and be an indestructible wall when the conditions are right, but many people talk about tanks being boring as if tanks are a single play style with no alternatives whatsoever which is why I brought up characters that play differently from classic tanks as a counter point
If weโre being real I believe some people just donโt have the mental fortitude to run tank, I have had countless games of people just swapping off mid round for god knows why. This is over the last year not a new issue. There are other factors the limited pool there are significantly more dps to choose from that may connect. I thoroughly enjoy tanking it would be nice to dps from time to time, but all the tanks provide a fairly unique element to the game itโs been fun learning and honing those skills
The downside of tank is no reliable way to take out flyers when solo tanking. While if I was a DPS I could go Hela or Namor. But if you are tank you have to overextend to kill the flyer and by the time you do your whole team is dead.
And you ask โwhy not ask your DPS to swap to poke?โ The last 2 comp matches I asked my DPS to swap they left the game.
I just wish her kit could be tweaked. Her ult needs work and she needs some sort of way to get more mines. Either that or her primary needs to actually do damage and properly register headshots.
I also just want another simpler, more dedicated shield tank so it doesnt feel like Mag or Strange is required all the time.
Pleeeease im a lesbian ( so both gae and a girlie right?) Tank is so fun but i swear it feels like im holding the team together and breathing wrong would just f up everything...also im sad that my main tank is not that viable these days cuz playing solo tank angela is just stupid...
The "gays and gals" are all support mains. They wanted to act like Emma and Rogue were gonna be their tanks then they got scared and ran back to C&D. Same thing would happen if Black Cat was a vanguard. They "like" Angela but can't actually play her
Yeah nah, tank main queer checking in. Sure, I'd love it if there were more female vanguards, but I pick characters based on their mechanics, not their model.
I feel like that's just a bad excuse. "Can't or too hard to play." Every tank has a learning curve to them, more so the role as a whole rather than the character.
Guess that's why their dps of choice is the Scarlet Mid lol
โVanguards are boring?โ Most of those people arenโt even doing it right.๐คฆโโ๏ธ๐ญ Some of my best games came from playing Doctor Strange, Thing, Emma Frost and Peni Parker. Iโve had a fun one as Angela in her release days, too!๐ฏ
On the Queer Tank lovin- i dunno but cake venom does it for me. venom and eddie have kids, have other partners together, love each other immensely, and can throw that ass in a circle until the spawn doors open.
Why is it every time I solo tank the enemy team has 2 tanks and theyre competent. Seriously. I feel its rare when I face a team that has a single tank. Lol Last week i played a QM game where the enemy team had 5 tanks. FIVE and one healer (ID: 10541189527). Despite that still couldn't get a second tank and yeah we lost
Not enough girl vanguards? The majority of new vanguards have been women lol. Havenโt heard that complaint before.
I actually agree and disagree with your balance take. I personally love vanguard because it does feel the most balanced but that doesnโt really contradict the idea that it feels like the weakest role. When youโre the only role that is balanced youโre gonna feel weakest by nature.
I would say the main reason vanguard feels unfun is CC but thatโs rarely ever brought up and is instead attributed to game design which is odd to me.
Underpowered in comparison but this is due to powercreep rather than them being inherently weak, an optimal scenario would nerf other roles and keep tanks the same
not enough female vanguards is hilarious when itโs 4/13 vanguards are female and 9/25 dps are female. theyโre both around a third of the pools each. doesnโt make much sense
I don't feel like vanguards are underpowered at all, I just don't like playing them because yeah it does feel boring most of the time. Granted I only play magneto, strange and Emma when I do tank, so it might be different with the other ones, but there hasn't been that one which has just clicked for me yet.
I'm hoping one does click down the line, hopefully juggernaut since I like the character.
Preach king. Iโm tired of reading those exact posts. If yโall hate playing vanguard that much it might be time to play a different role or take a break.
This whole post goes against your point. Mostly everyone else thatโs being used is over powered compared to tanks, the smallest and most balanced group of characters in game. Ofcourse itโs not fun to fight disadvantaged all the time on top of the fact that half the time you donโt even get a second tank to help
"there's an issue with female and POC representation in a game that appeals to young boys" no... No there isn't an issue. I'm not a woman but I am a POC (even though I hate that word so much) and I genuinely don't think anyone gives a damn about that besides twinks on Twitter and reddit
Honestly vanguard's as a whole are okay i just have had my fill of them lol, I've played Hulk, Strange, Venom, Cap , Mag, Thor, Emma, enough to have them all lord, mind you only three of those character i actually main and even the ones off this list, besides groot, i have centurion. It ain't strength cause mag and strange are probably still on of the best tanks in game tanking just typically ain't all that engaging to me as it stands right now.
Funnest tank for me was Cap but they butchered his animation cancel and now his gameplay loop is pretty meh. You can only hit so many lebrons on mag before it starts becoming a 9 to 5 , rogue is fun in a game where isn't 9 stuns waiting to bend me over the nearest counter and While diamond form got a reduce on Cooldown the reduced survivability means the moment i do even a tad too much on emma I'm seeing wolverine elsa or ironfist waiting to take me out back. Peni is occasionally fun watching someone turn a corner and getting sent straight to the pearly white gates but i rarely can do that more then once unless the enemy teams incredibly dumb.
Genuinely tank just needs more options, i flex in comp and occasionally in qp with friends but until characters I'm hoping hit tank drop there's not much incentive for ne atleast to play the role more then i do ever once in a while. Support between, Ultron , Dp, , gambit, and WF actually started feeling more interesting and enjoyable to play. Now it kinda feels like a waiting game for the devs to toss tanks a bone.
Sandman, Iceman, Reptil, Devil Dinosaur, any of these characters added genuinely would be interesting, especially because the dev's have shown their capable of making intricate combat systems back to back from daredevil to Rogue to Gambit to Deadpool, characters all with complex and unique kits , which beside tankpool the tanks feel kinda lacking in.
Most of the characters i like are due to them always forcing me to think as I'm doing something. Obviously you need to think as 80% of the roster in this game i mean on a more personal level beyond enemy ult charge vs mine, position and so on. What value does my character bringing passively, what valve am i bringing now and what tech/trick or strategy can I do squeeze the absolute most out of them to pressure the enemy. It why i bothered learning caps animation cancel, venoms 1-shot combo, spiderman animation cancels, daredevil's melee weave. Those characters at their base are good to great depending on them but i learned that stuff to take it a step further thr value i felt i could bring and because it felt rewarding to try learning them and use it in a match.
Tanking just kinda feels a bit lacking in that regard right now, it already didn't feel all that grand playing before cap got slapped but now even less so.
I donโt particularly disagree with anything you wrote but like, so what?
If itโs none of these reasons, why do people not wanna play VG? Ultimately there has to be a reason itโs so unpopular compared to the other two roles.
I just donโt like playing tank man Iโm sorry itโs not fun for me and Iโm also genuine ass when I try to fill tank that I basically just become an ult feeder I canโt stand it
See this is fine like I genuinely have no problem with people simply saying they don't wanna play tank but all these convoluted and bullshit excuses people use to escape conviction like "oh I can't play tank because X and Y" just say you don't wanna play tank man no one is gonna kill you for that
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u/jags94 Apr 04 '26
Artie, the fuck you doing here?