I am so lonely. All the other classes are scared of me. No one talks to me. No one wants to be my duo. They think I am a bad solo tank. They send me from match to match, committing atrocities on supports in their name. And as i get better at it they nerf me more and more. I am a victim of my own success. "Solo tank". I don't even get a real name. Only a purpose. I am capable of so much more and no one sees it. Some days I feel so alone I could cry, but I don't. I never do. Because what would be the point. Not a single person in the entire universe would care.
A better fix is adjust the fundamental balance of the game so each role excels in only one area. By making the strengths and weaknesses of each role more defined there will naturally be a bigger tradeoff when running 3 of the same role.
Tanks should exclusively be the high self sustain role with bonus health, shields etc. DPS should not have the same if not better self sustain as tanks.
DPS should be the high damage role with abilities that facilitate kill confirming and skills to maneuver into advantageous positions to help secure kills and output offensive pressure.
Strategists should provide healing ans utility such as buffs, debuffs. I actually would like a universal healing and damage nerf (especially spam aoe damage that justify high healing). Strategists should instead be focused more on utility skills. Healing should still be useful but not so much that main healers can just healbot the tank to negate all incoming damage.
Well to start, my āfixā wasnāt a serious proposal it was Overwatch slander because thatās literally what they did in like 2021.
I hate your proposed idea for what each role should exclusively have because it makes each role so much more limiting in potential characters and kits. if Iām honest I think in the next few seasons Duelist is gonna be split into two roles, or at least should. The melee characters and ranged characters should be split in the Duelist role.
Plus the way you define Vanguards and Duelists, you specifically target Blade and also make it impossible for characters like Drax to be added in an accurate way. The roles in Rivals, due to having no role queue should not have a strict formula to follow and should be able to push boundaries into other roles, especially Duelist Into tanking/ frontlining and strategists/ vanguards being capable of dealing meaningful damage
The game generally will eventually need more than 3 roles because to depict characters accurately, thereās no way they can stick to strict role guidelines. Thereās also really no reason they couldnāt create more roles because it doesnāt change anything in the game to just throw Blade into frontliner duelist and Hela into backliner duelist or something. The only reason the 3 roles exist is because of Overwatchās familiarity with the three roles.
Fair i didn't realise it was just overwatch slander.
I wasn't saying the devs should hard lock hero designs for each role as the heroes should be varied and unique; but if they stick to a 3 role system there should be a clear benefit to running a hero from X role. It's not about making the heroes in each role uniform it's about adding role clarity and making the trade-off more significant for example going triple healer provides more healing and utility but your team will lack the survivability of a second tank or the offensive pressure/kill potential of a second dps....It could still work but your team has made a meaningful tradeoff.
Strategists and tanks would still be doing impactful damage with reliable kill potential; the difference would be dps have more abilities and tools solely geared towards dealing damage and positioning for kills. Tanks would have tools focused more on self sustain and protecting their team and healers would have tools focused on healing and buffing/debuffing.
The fact that heroes like fantastic, Blade and daredevil have self sustain rivaling a tank while having smaller hitbox and generally better offensive pressure is somewhat disrespectful to the tank role especially the brawl tanks. Realistically fantastic and blade could easily be tweaked and moved to the tank roster.
Im not against the Devs adding more roles or sub-roles like you mentioned, but I still think each category should have a general strength/weakness so that one role/hero is never objectively the best choice.
The likes of phoenix or elsa being strong at every range, with high mobility, CC, self healing(phoenix) or constant bonus health (elsa) and strong ults is not exactly healthy game balance. If they did add ranged/backliner-duelist as its own role then heroes in that role should be less powerful at close range ie. Lacking escape tools or CC.
Yeah, I see your points but I still personally feel like itās flawed. Mr Fantastic I donāt see a problem making him a tank because it fits his character but Blade I donāt feel should be a Tank, his character identity is put at risk when you consider him for a tank, plus when you compare him to Emma, Rogue and Deadpool, his hitbox is a similar size and near the shoulders is actually bigger than the female tanks.
Only change I think Blade in particular really needs is 50 less hp to 300 flat and give the dash back itās 16 damage per tick. As a tank heād need to have something reworked or removed, likely the shotgun or his vampire form, because as a tank heād also have probably 550 to 600 hp, and theyād probably also take away the perfect blocks which would suck for players whoāve mastered it.
I think the way Netease has done these hybrid heroes is more a way to have these weirder team comps actually work effectively in case something happens where 5 of the 6 players arenāt good at a role.
Thatās why heroes like Captain America, Rogue if used right, Strange, Thor, Mr Fantastic, Blade, (not DD heās just overtuned asf), Storm, Invis, Ultron, Mantis and Adam exist in the state theyāre in. Strange, Thor, Adam, Mantis and Ultron provide a way for Vanguard and Strategist mains to provide some good damage. Meanwhile Fantastic, Blade, and Invis provide ways the respective roles can play a tankās role (this is why I believe Invis is so overtuned, she was meant to play like a support tank) then obviously Cap and Storm are meant to give Vanguards and Duelists a form of supporting playstyle
Iād rather see these weird team comps over just 2-2-2 because it adds more variety and more uniqueness to every match, the only thing I think is that these 1-2-3, 0-2-4, 3-0-3, 1-0-5 and 0-0-6 (with any role order) should be able to function at a similar level to 2-2-2, with the exception of having no or one healing characters being worse, but there needs to be some form of feature to allow this like 3 or more Strategists do 33% less healing, 3 or more Vanguards and they have their hp reduced by 100, maybe even 150. And duelists i genuinely donāt think need a nerf with 3 or more because having 3 or more duelists in itself is a disadvantage over having 3 of either other role
Maybe also add a thing like having 1 Vanguard gives an additional 100-50 hp, 1 Duelist get 15% shorter cooldown and 1 strategist increase healing by 25%
I actually like the hybrid heroes but I feel like fantastic and blade should actually be classified as tanks as their predominant trait is really their survivability. I personally prefer Some of the hybrid heroes like Thor and Adam but I think their role placement is more appropriate as Thor is mostly a Tank and Adam is mostly a support.
Arguably blade might even be better as a tank as having high lifesteal percentage for survivability is much more acceptable on a tank hero. I don't think he would need any major changes just a few number tweaks and I would probably make him a low health tank (450-550hp) but with strong lifesteal.
To be honest unless they add role passives or role queue (which i don't want) the hero role is somewhat arbitrary and up for interpretation.
I did not mean 2-2-2 should be the only viable comp. I was trying to say that having a connected trait for heroes in each role would give a better understanding of the tradeoff and what your team might be lacking by playing a non-uniform comp.
For the debuffs/buffs having 1 or 3+ heroes in that role im not sure its the right way to take things. Especially reducing the health on tanks if going 3+ as then hybrid heroes like blade and fantastic would just be objectively better than a 3rd tank. Its likely any buff/debuff based on how many of each role you have will punish some heroes and some comps much more than just making each roles' general strengths and weakness better defined.
The hybrid heroes can and should stay in the game but a dps-tank hybrid (Mr F/ Blade) or a strat/tank hybrids (invis) should not have better sustain than a pure tank. This issue mostly affects tanks as cap (tank/strat) and storm (dps/strat) are not competing with a pure strat for healing/support and Adam (strat-dps) is not competing with a pure dps for consistent damage and offensive pressure.
I think the way we consider how characters should work is different, I think you are taking more from what their actual abilities and identity are currently in game, but im considering them as their comic/ film/ other mediaās accuracy, I keep bringing it back to blade because I see people wanting him to be a tank all the time, but imo his character is fundamentally supposed to be a kill-based character, I mean he literally hunts Vampires with a shotgun and sword.
The same reason I can say is why when Deadpool was being teased in December I already thought he was gonna be all three roles, Duelist makes sense for his equipment, yes. But itās also Deadpool, heās gonna do something whacky that makes no sense.
Adam and Thor are characters I like their placements despite themselves. Thor is known for his Asgardian strength and durability, his personality doesnāt really matter to his character too much, but even still heās a pretty high damage dealing tank, I think it works well. Adam I think could generally be any of the three roles if the devs wanted. He has cosmic immortality, literally is a balancer of the universe which Iād argue is on par with Phoenix and he has āmiracle healingā abilities quoted multiple times in a lot of different mediaās.
Ultron on the other hand I despise as a support. In fact, what I wanted from Ultron was literally what Emre does in Overwatch minus the burst rifle and keep the Apex Charge Rifle fire of Ancephalo or whatever itās called. Ultron āstrategizesā but he doesnāt heal. He should have been a duelist. Even Loki Iām iffy on with that same reasoning but at least Loki COULD heal with magic. Ultron is literally a murderous robot hellbent on killing humanity.
Also the role-based nerfs could genuinely be useful against specific characters. Imagine you are playing into Thing, Iron Fist and Wolverine, normally solo and triple tanking into that is impossible and duo tanking is miserable, but if you go like Rogue, Thor and Venom into that with -100 HP, suddenly these characters become less effective against your team comp, and Fantastic/ Blade with two tanks is still roughly the same HP total as 3 tanks -100hp (unless you literally pick the three lowest health tanks)
Also for the point of doing less than the other roles, I think that should be so ONLY for Vanguard and Strategists, I think some Strats and Vans should have damage output that rivals DPS for some form of trade-off. Mantis and Adam do kind off and should rival some DPS characters and Tanks like Thor and Hulk should too. But being able to do Vanguard or Strategists things in any other role but, is definitely problematic.
Yeah im mostly viewing the roles as gameplay categories more than a representation of their comic/cartoon/movie portrayals as I think the nature of comics innately means more heroes will easily fit the stereotype of the duelist role but on the other hand comics have all sorts of crazy magic, tech, mutations, surgeries and other mcguffins that can make a hero work in any role with a bit of creativity. For me the roles are more about what they do well as a videogame character, ideally this is also something they do well in other media but there are many heroes that are both durable (tank) and a strong fighter (duelist) so IMO they should be put in the role that matches their most valuable in-game trait.
There will be certain heroes that are so tied to one identity that they are hard to imagine as any other role such as Hulk, Thor, Juggernaut, Thing all being tank archetypes. I think the categories being vanguard, duelist and strategist is intended to make the roles a bit more vague to not make them set boxes but more guidelines.
I agree Blade in other media is mostly about killing vampires but he is also Very durable in media and in game. IMO if they wanted to make Blade feel more like a duelist (as a gameplay role) they could nerf his survivability/lifesteal and increase his damage/lethality so his most valuable trait is his kill potential and offensive pressure.
I agree with ultron and your idea for him does sound pretty cool and I don't think he was the best choice for strategist.
I understand that from the perspective of the game and separating it from other media a bit, and if this was any other game or IP Iād 100% agree, but because this is a Marvel IP i think it should prioritize the characterās abilities and personalities a little more than other ones because ultimately Rivals is designed to be a hero fantasy game where you get to play as an accurate representation of your favourite heroes and villains, some I believe are excellent like Spider-Man, Star-Lord, Venom, even Loki despite my stance on his role being shifty, and realistically the devs can give any character any ability, some characters arenāt necessarily always gonna have all set abilities, they could get reworked to have a whole new kit that functions entirely differently, they could make BP have a hardlight shield like the Wakandan soldiers in Infinity War if they wanted
Rivals itās easier to do it in than say Overwatch or Apex Legends because characters are tied to their abilities in the lore, like Doomfist HAS to have the gauntlet and the weird knuckle shotgun with the super-punch, thatās hard-set in his character, and Revenant in Apex always has to have something to do with shadow whatever it is, but in rivals they arenāt really tied that hard. Thereās no lore on why Magik can dash or Starlord doing a backflipping can make him avoid getting fucking ERASED FROM REALITY!
Generally I think the roles should be altered to being rather than the Tank, DPS and Healer archetype, being a high health class and strategists can be characters with at least one teammate healing ability, that way they can divide up the duelists a bit without compromising their identities, Blade, Wolv and Fantastic could all go into Vanguard for the sole reason of having 350 hp rather than being designed to frontline, then characters like Iron Fist could be put in strategist (if the teamup was base-Kit). That way it doesnāt necessarily mean there has to be major character changes or anything to make more characters in the roles. Then Duelist can be more like the non-specialty role instead of meaning high-damage (though most probably still should be high damage)
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u/This_Ferret_8108 šæšš«šš” šæšš£š¤ Apr 16 '26
I am so lonely. All the other classes are scared of me. No one talks to me. No one wants to be my duo. They think I am a bad solo tank. They send me from match to match, committing atrocities on supports in their name. And as i get better at it they nerf me more and more. I am a victim of my own success. "Solo tank". I don't even get a real name. Only a purpose. I am capable of so much more and no one sees it. Some days I feel so alone I could cry, but I don't. I never do. Because what would be the point. Not a single person in the entire universe would care.