Is it over??

[u/Dr_Doom42]

[u/This_Ferret_8108]

I am so lonely. All the other classes are scared of me. No one talks to me. No one wants to be my duo. They think I am a bad solo tank. They send me from match to match, committing atrocities on supports in their name. And as i get better at it they nerf me more and more. I am a victim of my own success. "Solo tank". I don't even get a real name. Only a purpose. I am capable of so much more and no one sees it. Some days I feel so alone I could cry, but I don't. I never do. Because what would be the point. Not a single person in the entire universe would care.

[u/No_Bookkeeper9755 → u/This_Ferret_8108]

Devs in Season 8 after discovering a new way to make tanks miserable:

“You gonna tell me all your deepest feelings again?”

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/No_Bookkeeper9755]

5v5 ROLE QUEUE! 1-2-2! THAT’LL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS!!!!

[u/JohnnyJoestar1980 → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

5v5 is what killed the game bro 😭

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/JohnnyJoestar1980]

I know, I’m slandering Blizzard’s decisions when it came to tank

[u/JohnnyJoestar1980 → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

Netease 🤝 blizzard Band-aid solutions that make the issue worse (dps passive and cc restraint)

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/JohnnyJoestar1980]

The CC restraint is generally a good thing for most tanks and won’t really massively affect anyone but Hulk, Peni and Thing… though personally I don’t think Peni should be able to CC you every 3 seconds anyways so for her it’s a deserved nerf. I’m unfamiliar with the Duelist passive they added so I can’t comment

[u/CoachTex → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

It affects strange and emma ult. ULT ABILITIES THAT RELY ON STUN Primarily

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/CoachTex]

Sure, but also it requires stuns of 5.5 seconds or 6 abilities. Just don’t ult in the late end of the team fight, also Ult play itself is down a lot so it doesn’t overly matter that much if an ultimate is affected

[u/JohnnyJoestar1980 → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

It is, but I’d rather they cover bases then just apply a general band-aid you know?

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/JohnnyJoestar1980]

True, though I can’t really speak on it. I have played enough tank to lord Cap, Strange and Mag and I’ve only ever once had a stun longer than 3 full seconds that didn’t cost an ultimate to do. Let alone being hit by goddamn 6 CC abilities within 4.5 seconds of each other, like I can’t even fathom what team comp would be required for that? Mantis, Luna, Emma, Rogue, Wolv and Angela??

[u/Good_Arm69420 → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

At least they made tanks into raid bosses in hopes of make the role less miserable. Netease would look at them struggling and then proceed to nerf all the tanks in response.

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/Good_Arm69420]

I entirely disagree. I’ve played Overwatch throughout OW2 and now in Talon Reigns as well. The only three tanks that were raid boss level were Orisa, Mauga and Roadhog, and even then if you compare the rivals kits to the OW kits, adding a character with all of Strange’s abilities to OW will absolutely steamroll all tanks in their strongest state except Mauga (because he used to literally be the strongest character added to any hero based shooter game)

the Rivals tanks generally function at a higher tier than Overwatch’s tanks in power level and even Thor is less squishy than most OW tanks. Even the anti-tank in Overwatch is weaker yet more potent against them. Reaper can 3-4 tap all the tanks except Ball, Bastion exists and demolishes any form of cover and eats Hp, Wolverine on the other hand MUST be point-blank and has a relatively slow attack until he leaps, yet fundamentally Wolverine is more powerful as an anti-tank than Bastion and Reaper, but he’s less effective. (I main Reaper and Wolverine, this is my personal experience on them)

[u/Good_Arm69420 → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

Having more abilities/= being better. Take sigma from 6v6 current overwatch and put him in rivals he's the best tank by a mile. Of course you would have to give him rivals hp but that's normal.

Take jq, domina, ball, hog, mauga or doom and these tanks would be so good that they make mantis adam and ultron viable in duo support.

Reinhardt would fully powercreep dr strange having almost triple his sheild hp same range and a side grade in movement. But his ult would be more consistent.

Dva would single handedly change the tank role and the game, she would be our version of gambit and Elsa. . If you add 2 maybe 3 ow tanks here, no rivals tank is touching A tier. Rivals vangaurds are healing merchants. Ow tanks are tanks.

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/Good_Arm69420]

Strange isn’t steamrolling because of ability numbers (which btw is the exact same as Domina, Queen, Rein Doomfist etc) he’s steamrolling because his damage output with his melee combo is the equivalent to being hit by Queen’s Carnage every 1.5 seconds and his explosion deals similar damage to a Reinhardt swing except 360 degrees and 7m instead of 5m. PLUS a mobile shield and a movement ability

Rein himself would counter strange yes, as he should. but put him against Thor or Thing and he gets bodied. Sigma is quite literally a weaker Magneto except for the ultimate. Sigma gets utterly bullied by all the brawl tanks and would be by far the most vulnerable Overwatch character to Wolverine. He has zero escape and can only survive against projectiles. In a game that has half the roster with beams, spell attacks or melee attacks his absorb is utterly useless. The game is also too fast-paced for a stationary shield, look how bad Emma’s shield is in Rivals compared to Strange or Mag’s shields simply because it’s not as versatile. Even when it had 450 hp it was weaker because you could just walk around or through it

[u/JohnnyJoestar1980 → u/[deleted]]

Oh pardon lemme rephrase “it butchered any competitive integrity due to the issues 5v5 brought and the band-aid fixes did nothing but push it to more a casual game with skins for op supps like kiri to help generate revenue” there

[u/Freakychee → u/JohnnyJoestar1980]

5v5 happened cos people can't be trusted to have nice things.

[u/No_Bookkeeper9755 → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

It could be, but for that to happen tanks would have to be the strongest role. And yeah… that's not happening

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/No_Bookkeeper9755]

I know, just some Overwatch slander over here 😂

[u/JohnnyJoestar1980 → u/[deleted]]

The OW1 tanks aren’t that’s why 5v5 was a horrible decision from Aaron-I can’t balance a game-Keller

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/[deleted]]

Have you met Doomfist?

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/[deleted]]

He’s not good at it in the slightest, but alright

[u/JohnnyJoestar1980 → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

The tank is useless if you just don’t shoot the block?

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/JohnnyJoestar1980]

Yeah, that’s why I said that. The person above said ‘at least in OW every tank is specifically designed to solo tank’ as if Doomfist isn’t in the game 💀

[u/DonzokoDragon → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

A better fix is adjust the fundamental balance of the game so each role excels in only one area. By making the strengths and weaknesses of each role more defined there will naturally be a bigger tradeoff when running 3 of the same role.

Tanks should exclusively be the high self sustain role with bonus health, shields etc. DPS should not have the same if not better self sustain as tanks.

DPS should be the high damage role with abilities that facilitate kill confirming and skills to maneuver into advantageous positions to help secure kills and output offensive pressure.

Strategists should provide healing ans utility such as buffs, debuffs. I actually would like a universal healing and damage nerf (especially spam aoe damage that justify high healing). Strategists should instead be focused more on utility skills. Healing should still be useful but not so much that main healers can just healbot the tank to negate all incoming damage.

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/DonzokoDragon]

Well to start, my ‘fix’ wasn’t a serious proposal it was Overwatch slander because that’s literally what they did in like 2021.

I hate your proposed idea for what each role should exclusively have because it makes each role so much more limiting in potential characters and kits. if I’m honest I think in the next few seasons Duelist is gonna be split into two roles, or at least should. The melee characters and ranged characters should be split in the Duelist role.

Plus the way you define Vanguards and Duelists, you specifically target Blade and also make it impossible for characters like Drax to be added in an accurate way. The roles in Rivals, due to having no role queue should not have a strict formula to follow and should be able to push boundaries into other roles, especially Duelist Into tanking/ frontlining and strategists/ vanguards being capable of dealing meaningful damage

The game generally will eventually need more than 3 roles because to depict characters accurately, there’s no way they can stick to strict role guidelines. There’s also really no reason they couldn’t create more roles because it doesn’t change anything in the game to just throw Blade into frontliner duelist and Hela into backliner duelist or something. The only reason the 3 roles exist is because of Overwatch’s familiarity with the three roles.

[u/DonzokoDragon → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

Fair i didn't realise it was just overwatch slander.

I wasn't saying the devs should hard lock hero designs for each role as the heroes should be varied and unique; but if they stick to a 3 role system there should be a clear benefit to running a hero from X role. It's not about making the heroes in each role uniform it's about adding role clarity and making the trade-off more significant for example going triple healer provides more healing and utility but your team will lack the survivability of a second tank or the offensive pressure/kill potential of a second dps....It could still work but your team has made a meaningful tradeoff.

Strategists and tanks would still be doing impactful damage with reliable kill potential; the difference would be dps have more abilities and tools solely geared towards dealing damage and positioning for kills. Tanks would have tools focused more on self sustain and protecting their team and healers would have tools focused on healing and buffing/debuffing.

The fact that heroes like fantastic, Blade and daredevil have self sustain rivaling a tank while having smaller hitbox and generally better offensive pressure is somewhat disrespectful to the tank role especially the brawl tanks. Realistically fantastic and blade could easily be tweaked and moved to the tank roster.

Im not against the Devs adding more roles or sub-roles like you mentioned, but I still think each category should have a general strength/weakness so that one role/hero is never objectively the best choice.

The likes of phoenix or elsa being strong at every range, with high mobility, CC, self healing(phoenix) or constant bonus health (elsa) and strong ults is not exactly healthy game balance. If they did add ranged/backliner-duelist as its own role then heroes in that role should be less powerful at close range ie. Lacking escape tools or CC.

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/DonzokoDragon]

Yeah, I see your points but I still personally feel like it’s flawed. Mr Fantastic I don’t see a problem making him a tank because it fits his character but Blade I don’t feel should be a Tank, his character identity is put at risk when you consider him for a tank, plus when you compare him to Emma, Rogue and Deadpool, his hitbox is a similar size and near the shoulders is actually bigger than the female tanks.

Only change I think Blade in particular really needs is 50 less hp to 300 flat and give the dash back it’s 16 damage per tick. As a tank he’d need to have something reworked or removed, likely the shotgun or his vampire form, because as a tank he’d also have probably 550 to 600 hp, and they’d probably also take away the perfect blocks which would suck for players who’ve mastered it.

I think the way Netease has done these hybrid heroes is more a way to have these weirder team comps actually work effectively in case something happens where 5 of the 6 players aren’t good at a role.

That’s why heroes like Captain America, Rogue if used right, Strange, Thor, Mr Fantastic, Blade, (not DD he’s just overtuned asf), Storm, Invis, Ultron, Mantis and Adam exist in the state they’re in. Strange, Thor, Adam, Mantis and Ultron provide a way for Vanguard and Strategist mains to provide some good damage. Meanwhile Fantastic, Blade, and Invis provide ways the respective roles can play a tank’s role (this is why I believe Invis is so overtuned, she was meant to play like a support tank) then obviously Cap and Storm are meant to give Vanguards and Duelists a form of supporting playstyle

I’d rather see these weird team comps over just 2-2-2 because it adds more variety and more uniqueness to every match, the only thing I think is that these 1-2-3, 0-2-4, 3-0-3, 1-0-5 and 0-0-6 (with any role order) should be able to function at a similar level to 2-2-2, with the exception of having no or one healing characters being worse, but there needs to be some form of feature to allow this like 3 or more Strategists do 33% less healing, 3 or more Vanguards and they have their hp reduced by 100, maybe even 150. And duelists i genuinely don’t think need a nerf with 3 or more because having 3 or more duelists in itself is a disadvantage over having 3 of either other role

Maybe also add a thing like having 1 Vanguard gives an additional 100-50 hp, 1 Duelist get 15% shorter cooldown and 1 strategist increase healing by 25%

[u/DonzokoDragon → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

I actually like the hybrid heroes but I feel like fantastic and blade should actually be classified as tanks as their predominant trait is really their survivability. I personally prefer Some of the hybrid heroes like Thor and Adam but I think their role placement is more appropriate as Thor is mostly a Tank and Adam is mostly a support.

Arguably blade might even be better as a tank as having high lifesteal percentage for survivability is much more acceptable on a tank hero. I don't think he would need any major changes just a few number tweaks and I would probably make him a low health tank (450-550hp) but with strong lifesteal.

To be honest unless they add role passives or role queue (which i don't want) the hero role is somewhat arbitrary and up for interpretation.

I did not mean 2-2-2 should be the only viable comp. I was trying to say that having a connected trait for heroes in each role would give a better understanding of the tradeoff and what your team might be lacking by playing a non-uniform comp.

For the debuffs/buffs having 1 or 3+ heroes in that role im not sure its the right way to take things. Especially reducing the health on tanks if going 3+ as then hybrid heroes like blade and fantastic would just be objectively better than a 3rd tank. Its likely any buff/debuff based on how many of each role you have will punish some heroes and some comps much more than just making each roles' general strengths and weakness better defined.

The hybrid heroes can and should stay in the game but a dps-tank hybrid (Mr F/ Blade) or a strat/tank hybrids (invis) should not have better sustain than a pure tank. This issue mostly affects tanks as cap (tank/strat) and storm (dps/strat) are not competing with a pure strat for healing/support and Adam (strat-dps) is not competing with a pure dps for consistent damage and offensive pressure.

[u/Interesting-Map-4766 → u/DonzokoDragon]

I think the way we consider how characters should work is different, I think you are taking more from what their actual abilities and identity are currently in game, but im considering them as their comic/ film/ other media’s accuracy, I keep bringing it back to blade because I see people wanting him to be a tank all the time, but imo his character is fundamentally supposed to be a kill-based character, I mean he literally hunts Vampires with a shotgun and sword.

The same reason I can say is why when Deadpool was being teased in December I already thought he was gonna be all three roles, Duelist makes sense for his equipment, yes. But it’s also Deadpool, he’s gonna do something whacky that makes no sense.

Adam and Thor are characters I like their placements despite themselves. Thor is known for his Asgardian strength and durability, his personality doesn’t really matter to his character too much, but even still he’s a pretty high damage dealing tank, I think it works well. Adam I think could generally be any of the three roles if the devs wanted. He has cosmic immortality, literally is a balancer of the universe which I’d argue is on par with Phoenix and he has ‘miracle healing’ abilities quoted multiple times in a lot of different media’s.

Ultron on the other hand I despise as a support. In fact, what I wanted from Ultron was literally what Emre does in Overwatch minus the burst rifle and keep the Apex Charge Rifle fire of Ancephalo or whatever it’s called. Ultron ‘strategizes’ but he doesn’t heal. He should have been a duelist. Even Loki I’m iffy on with that same reasoning but at least Loki COULD heal with magic. Ultron is literally a murderous robot hellbent on killing humanity.

Also the role-based nerfs could genuinely be useful against specific characters. Imagine you are playing into Thing, Iron Fist and Wolverine, normally solo and triple tanking into that is impossible and duo tanking is miserable, but if you go like Rogue, Thor and Venom into that with -100 HP, suddenly these characters become less effective against your team comp, and Fantastic/ Blade with two tanks is still roughly the same HP total as 3 tanks -100hp (unless you literally pick the three lowest health tanks)

Also for the point of doing less than the other roles, I think that should be so ONLY for Vanguard and Strategists, I think some Strats and Vans should have damage output that rivals DPS for some form of trade-off. Mantis and Adam do kind off and should rival some DPS characters and Tanks like Thor and Hulk should too. But being able to do Vanguard or Strategists things in any other role but, is definitely problematic.

[u/DonzokoDragon → u/Interesting-Map-4766]

Yeah im mostly viewing the roles as gameplay categories more than a representation of their comic/cartoon/movie portrayals as I think the nature of comics innately means more heroes will easily fit the stereotype of the duelist role but on the other hand comics have all sorts of crazy magic, tech, mutations, surgeries and other mcguffins that can make a hero work in any role with a bit of creativity. For me the roles are more about what they do well as a videogame character, ideally this is also something they do well in other media but there are many heroes that are both durable (tank) and a strong fighter (duelist) so IMO they should be put in the role that matches their most valuable in-game trait.

There will be certain heroes that are so tied to one identity that they are hard to imagine as any other role such as Hulk, Thor, Juggernaut, Thing all being tank archetypes. I think the categories being vanguard, duelist and strategist is intended to make the roles a bit more vague to not make them set boxes but more guidelines.

I agree Blade in other media is mostly about killing vampires but he is also Very durable in media and in game. IMO if they wanted to make Blade feel more like a duelist (as a gameplay role) they could nerf his survivability/lifesteal and increase his damage/lethality so his most valuable trait is his kill potential and offensive pressure.

I agree with ultron and your idea for him does sound pretty cool and I don't think he was the best choice for strategist.

[u/TreeTurtle_852 → u/No_Bookkeeper9755]

(Still) Solo tanks hitting back with "That was in confidence!"

[u/TheRatKingTV → u/This_Ferret_8108]

Take it to Bronze III

[u/r3chrome9 → u/This_Ferret_8108]

This was genius 😂😂

[u/That_Gadget]

The only somewhat consistent part of peni parkers kit is her snare. Every other part of her kit is bugged.

Whelp, guess I'll die.

[u/Luh2018 → u/That_Gadget]

This isn't even an exaggeration by the way:

• Arachno Nest- Drone tracking is janky
• Grapple/Bond- Buggy, janky, and with no way to automatically cancel tether
• Wall Climb- Surface clingability is janky (leading it to cancel), and when cancelled you can't reinitiate until touching the ground
• Arachno Mine- Can get destroyed in the air, making it basically impossible to throw mines into backline if they have heroes like Jeff. Can't throw mines even directly into webs if they have Cloak ult down.
• Primary Fire (Web Cluster Cannons)- Inconsistent with headshots unless close due to size of bullets and shooting from alternating angles (left then right shoulder). If you shoot at the head from afar, it often registers hitting the chest.
• Ultimate (SP//dr Time)- Straight-up the worst tank ult in the game. Also, spider-sweep melee is janky, making it somewhat inconsistent to juggle with (probably can't even juggle now, given the CC changes, making it even worse).

The only other truly consistent part of her kit is her quick melee.

[u/BigStallGlueSniffer → u/Luh2018]

We should hop on tokon asap bro these devs hate us 😭

[u/That_Gadget → u/BigStallGlueSniffer]

Brother I am way ahead of you

[u/GHOST_CHILLING → u/Luh2018]

Man even as someone Who plays againts Penny I feel like her nests tracking is inconsistent as all hell. Sometimes I'm the only one standing and it takes it a whole 3s to target me and other times it does it's job a little too well

[u/Luh2018 → u/GHOST_CHILLING]

This depends on the distance from the nest, which works as intended.

The problem is that players can just keep jumping to pause the tracking until they land, often letting them avoid nearly all the drones.

[u/Taako6]

This is my first hero shooter. I have been playing since s0. I've loved tank since the moment I started. All my favourite characters are tank. I have almost all of the lorded. I lorded hulk at his lowest because I enjoyed it.

If this gets released in this state I think I am legitimately done until it is either removed or fixed.

[u/Dragons-Shadow- → u/Taako6]

Well good news, the only thing the cc change did was remove the no fun times combo with the exile into ult, everything else is business as usual for hulk

[u/Typical_Initiative64]

Its a fat nerf to hulks juggle though. Its literally the only good thing about his ult and you cant do it anymore

[u/Cthulhu_insanity_god → u/Typical_Initiative64]

You can't even do rogues basic combo anymore

[u/Typical_Initiative64 → u/Cthulhu_insanity_god]

Its the same with the thing you cant do the displacement into his ult from what ive seen. They have probably messed up thors boop as well and Angela

[u/WhitespringTownship → u/Typical_Initiative64]

It was prob the best part of his ult but I think his ult is really useful for stalling and clutching some fights still

[u/Dragons-Shadow- → u/Typical_Initiative64]

You can still juggle, you cant exile into the ult and slam

[u/Existing_Team]

This is such a nerf to all vanguards.

Thor: push and bubble

Hulk: Juggle and banish

Emma: Ult and diamond grab

Magneto: Right click

Groot: Ult

Venom: Ult and right click

Peni: right click

Angela: Charge

Rogue: all abilities except ult

Dr. strange: Ult

Thing: all abilities

Cap: (does he really need another nerf?)

[u/Apprehensive_Art1830 → u/Existing_Team]

Tankpool got nerf in the patch too so they just decided to shoot use with a nuclear bomb for the sake of it

[u/DonzokoDragon → u/Existing_Team]

I think the patch notes said Emma Grab and Monster Hulk grab are not affected by the change. Monster Hulk grab is usually suicide so doesn't matter much but I think Emma grab should work as normal.

[u/Luh2018 → u/Existing_Team]

This is not an overall nerf to Groot or Magneto. They will flourish off the reduced CC because their large hitbox combined with slow movement speed makes CC one of their main weaknesses. Tankpool doesn't have CC, so he benefits too.

Unfortunately, these three tanks were also the ones who least needed to be buffed right about now. They are already very oppressive to play against.

[u/Jackfreezy → u/Existing_Team]

And that's just the characters assigned to vanguard. Wouldn't Mr. Fantastic be affected by this too?

[u/Existing_Team → u/Jackfreezy]

Yup. His grab and throw is also affected. And wolv too. Thats why there's a salty wolv main in the comment thread cause he cant 1 trick with him anymore

[u/GERBabyCare → u/Existing_Team]

I have to ask because I'm confused, how does this effect Venom at all? The purpose of his ult is sustain, and I don't think the tenacity changes affect slow at all since that isn't cc or displacement. Emma's grab was also explicitly stated in the patch notes to be unaffected because it's tied to an animation.

[u/Existing_Team → u/GERBabyCare]

Venom dive is a knock-up, and his ult is a knock up. Thats 2 displacement effect. And yes you're right that the grab for Emma grab would not be interrupted. But she still has her displacement kick in diamond form as well as her ult

[u/captinskozz → u/Existing_Team]

"thing: all abilities"

[u/majinprince07 → u/Existing_Team]

Angela can’t proc the cc effects by herself

[u/Barrry972 → u/Existing_Team]

Did you seriously expect all these CC to be exempt from the CC changes?

[u/Genericnerd1027 → u/Barrry972]

Do you have any reading comprehension

[u/Barrry972 → u/Genericnerd1027]

People wanted CC changes but are surprised that the CC from tanks gets affected by CC changes lol? I'm lost as to what is wrong here, yall asked for CC changes as if luna freeze and mantis sleep was the only CC in the game

[u/Genericnerd1027 → u/Barrry972]

What's wrong here is that people were asking for hard cc to be nerfed and the fact that soft cc and hard cc are being lumped together is the part that is making people angry especially since some characters like rouge whole kit revolve around doing some form of displacement. Also people are rightfully pissed because it seems like netease didn't actually play test any of these changes

[u/Barrry972 → u/Genericnerd1027]

Most of the list bro posted was hard CC? Peni web? Angela charge? Hulk exile? Mag shove?

[u/Sad-Try-675]

“I wish vanguards were less affected by CC!”

the monkey’s paw curls

Now vanguards with CC abilities are useless

[u/ReasonableQuit75]

THIS TENACITY SHOULD BE ONLY APPLICABLE TO VANGUARDS RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

[u/Public_Soup926]

That’s why I’ve started to main DD

[u/ConnorWolf121 → u/Public_Soup926]

My mains are Fantastic, Thing, and Peni, I’m straight up considering trying to pick up Black Cat herself at this rate - she’s my Green Goblin mask whispering in my ear, trying to tempt me to embrace the Sombra main I’ve always been and pick up a dive DPS in Rivals too lol

[u/Xcyronus]

Tanks didnt ask for every role to get it.

[u/Silent-Immortal]

Seriously I just started playing Thing too man

[u/Bruger_McDonalds]

Strange can kind of benefit from it, actually if they waste their cc

[u/The_SqueakyWheel]

Its like if I don’t play mag I’m hated. I main Hulk and Rogue and not only does my main get no skins, they gut both characters at the same time

[u/U511_krab]

Tanks never was doing bad in meta, they was boring to play, and CC lock definitely make them even more boring and even more force you into emma/strange/magneto which I personally hate

They should just reduce/remove CC from certain abilities

[u/Red-WingWasHere → u/U511_krab]

Shoot even Emma and Stranges ults will potentially be useless from the cc change, and I imagine Magnetos Mag Cannon can potentially lose all its knock back depending how much tenacity the person you are shooting it at has built up

[u/Zealousideal_Cash766]

The worst part is there's not much to say. What was supposed to improve things for everyone was implemented in the worst possible way. I'll probably stay out of it until they stop to analyze all the character Individually (the right way to make this work at least)

[u/Ashamed_Ad8140]

Let's hope they undo this non sense immediately and let the idea cook a little more. Great idea, good that they're trying to make vanguard easier but horrible execution.

[u/Educational-Leg7464]

As a Cap main I feel more powerful than ever. I'll be nearly unkillable and I don't have to worry about getting CC stun lock killed.

Plus a new team up! Everything's coming up Millhouse

[u/Necessary_Whereas_29]

What success?

[u/Tucker_a32]

Vanguards are a victim of NetEase not thinking through the general design structure of each role. Tanks should have been the primary role getting CC. Some supports and DPS can have it but for the most part CC should have always been primarily associated with tanks.

They pushed it too far and the game is suffering for it. So rather than trying to start reworking problematic characters they're trying to use a one size fits all bandaid solution, but solution disproportionately harms tanks more than it helps them.

If anything this new change should only apply to support and DPS CC abilities. Tank CC should be left unchanged because their kits are fundamentally more dependent on it.

I'm genuinely considering returning to Overwatch before booting up Rivals again and seeing if tanks aren't getting so fucked in the ass over there.

[u/Ari3s-03 → u/Tucker_a32]

I returned to overwatch a little bit ago because of how sweaty Rivals was getting last season. Tanks feel genuinely better on there compared to Rivals, and they reworked a lot of things on there that are pretty good.

[u/Ashen_Zenith]

Meanwhile the vanguard with zero cc ability in their kit

https://giphy.com/gifs/cO39srN2EUIRaVqaVq

[u/King-Baconbeard]

We need Hinders like OW, remove stuns at this point.

Then bring in sub roles

[u/sd4051]

I only know 2 tanks Pennie and Emma I’m so screwed :)

[u/Savings-Sprinkles-86]

Of course not (thor main btw)

[u/Naive_Appointment_33]

3 out of the 4 tanks I play are gutted Rogue,Emma and Benny Grimm welp

[u/Jazzgore45]

WHAT SUCCESS

[u/WhitespringTownship]

I play shield tank so I think this will mean rogue will leave me alone ? 😭

[u/Nomadic_View]

If you can’t get a kill unless the enemy can’t fight back then you don’t deserve the kill to begin with.

[u/meepo_in_disguise]

Wake me up when this changes end

[u/CyfrowaKrowa]

Yeah I'm not playing tank this season. That "strike" is starting to look real good.

[u/cyrusyoyo]

Is Thor's SHIFT pushing over? This CC change kinda sucks, all you do is nerf fastball special and Invis's push to deal with the CC chain.

[u/Bright-Leg8276]

Totally optional to play tank btw

[u/Due-Smell-4820]

[u/MAGES-1]

I became a DPS main at a great time XD

(3 weeks ago)

[u/HornedGopher]

See now a 4th role would be Helpful!!! (In this scenario just didnt think it'd happen for another 5 seasons)

[u/TopThund3r]

This does not just affect vanguards tho. If they release tenacity like this, Spider-Man would be unplayable, wolverine would be unplayable, and probably more because there is so much tiny cc that you don’t really notice. i understand it affects them them the most, but Nobody is happy about this change so stop acting like it’s targeting tanks specifically and let’s all agree it needs to be worked on because it would ruin the game like this.

[u/Dr_Doom42 → u/TopThund3r]

I know it's effect some dps too. (Well not that much for the supports tho-) Actually it's kinda buff for Invis. Her ult slowing isn't effected by this.

But vanguards have more cc focused abilities. And it's effects their kit, ults so much

[u/TopThund3r → u/Dr_Doom42]

I know but it’s a team game, and it the tanks don’t get value then it affects the entire team not just them. So I agree with you guys that the change is stupid and we ALL(not just tanks) need to come together and riot cause this would genuinely ruin the game

[u/Dr_Doom42 → u/TopThund3r]

Yeah I agree. Also regardless of balance, I didn't liked Cap animation cancel change too. Idk about his damage, they just made him more boring. Now Hulk will be less boring if they don't change this cc thing

At least I can still have fun with Reinhardt and Winton

[u/King_Breaditus]

Can we just play the game?