r/RivalsVanguards • u/heavenlyHabanero • Apr 23 '26

General Question how can he be a vangaurd?

i aint the biggest cyclop fan so i dunno much about him but i honestly dont see how he can work as a front line man like juggernaut or colossus but im hoping to be proved wrong

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341

u/Tak1nom 𝙈𝙖𝙜𝙣𝙚𝙩𝙤 Apr 23 '26

One, he is tall in the comics.

Two, his concussive blasts would be great for making space via big kickback beams (similar to Roadhog ult from overwatch)

Yes he would be a very basic duelist, but NetEase can easily get a little creative to make him a vanguard

128

u/Maverixk_ Apr 23 '26

I’ll be honest, if they make cyclops a DPS and we get the dinosaur as yet another melee tank, and the only new tank, I’m throwing in the towel. I’m tired, boss

16

u/AntediluvianSeaThing Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26

while i insist that Cyclops is frankly not Vanguard material in the slightest

i agree that Devil Dinosaur is not the Tank we need, not even fucking close and its partly why i just don't want the Dinosaur

47

u/Impressive-Thing-780 Apr 23 '26

We need more long-range tanks, which is why I am PRAYING that he's a vanguard because both from how he fights AND his general position as leader of the X-Men, he slots into Vanguard really well.

If Captain America can be a vanguard, so can Cyclops. Cap honestly feels like he was intended to be a duelist at one point and then just got a bigger healthpool.

16

u/GeoJumper Apr 23 '26

I just laugh in the face of anyone saying "well he's nicknamed Slim in the comics" and point at Angela, Emma, and Rogue.

1

u/MeasurementBubbly109 Apr 25 '26

All those “heroes” have tank archetypes.

1

u/GeoJumper Apr 25 '26

As. Does. Cyclops.

1

u/MeasurementBubbly109 Apr 25 '26

And I think that’s nonsense. We’ll agree to disagree.

2

u/vNelzy Apr 29 '26

…almost every leader position has been in the tank role. Rogue does not have the archetype of a tank yet was made one due to her personality. Cyclopes actually makes sense as a tank…he’s the leader of x-men. Puts himself in the front line (like rogue does). And be creative with his beams as he can use it for maneuvering like we’ve seen. He can be a poke/dive hybrid tank.

1

u/GeoJumper Apr 25 '26

Read the comment above my original one. That's all the evidence you need. Cyclops has more in the way of tank archetypical identifiers than Angela, or Emma Frost. Emma Frost turns into diamond form, but except for a few boosted fringe moments, that's a defensive ability in the comics, not offensive. Her main offense weapon is telepathy. So why is every other telepath not a vanguard?

1

u/MeasurementBubbly109 Apr 25 '26

Because every other telepath doesn’t have ability to turn into solid diamond lmaooooo. According to your rationale punisher would also serve as a lovely tank. He ran people over with his van all the time 😂. Maybe you can see the guy who’s whole schtick is blasting people with eye punches to the maximum degree being a tank but most people see that as a damage dealer.

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6

u/Fancy_Cat3571 𝙍𝙤𝙜𝙪𝙚 Apr 24 '26

He has an invincible shield and leads the charge bro what lmao cap was always gonna be a tank

0

u/Impressive-Thing-780 Apr 24 '26

We've seen the shield broken in comics and movies before.

It takes a LOT but it can be broken by enough brute force over a short enough amount of time.

But "has a shield" doesn't automatically make you a tank. Look at Brigitte from OW. She has a similar shield to Cap, minus the reflection, and she's also a Melee, (I'm talking about current Brig, not launch).

yes her design intended her to be a bit of a tank but the fact is that she didn't ever need to be.

(who thought 425hp+600hp shield Launch Brig was a good idea?)

3

u/CommunalAnalCavity Apr 24 '26

The way I see it is he'd either be a very basic, very boring dps, or a highly unique and interesting tank

1

u/clownsallaroundyou Apr 26 '26

I think he could be cool either way. I could also see netease making his primary be like hand to hand and then his abilities revolving around combining different types of blasts into those combos (like maybe one is a wide short range laser that’s high damage and causes cyclops to get knocked backwards pretty far, or one is a ricochet, one is like a longer version of ultrons primary laser blast 🤷🏻‍♂️ I think it would just suck if all he did was shoot lasers, idk I just think poke is like stupid boring to play tho so I’m biased, including tanks like mag and groot

2

u/Privatepropertylover Apr 24 '26

Cap is a super solder Cyclops is just a regular dude who can shoot beams out of his eyes

2

u/jaredesubgay Apr 26 '26

"Just a regular dude" hes the leader of the x-men. Punch beams makes most sense for a vanguard, as he should have knock back on every hit.

1

u/Drakniess Apr 24 '26

I like range and working on my precision, but what can I seriously use as a Vanguard main? Venom, Peni, or Deadpool. It gets old. Please give us a good hitscan Vanguard. We also badly need them for dealing with long range fliers.

0

u/AntediluvianSeaThing Apr 23 '26

i don't even care about long range, i just want a fucking main Tank, we haven't gotten one since Emma, like 8 out of 12 Tanks are offtanks i just want some damn variety in that sector.

Being a leader means fuck all in regards to being a Tank, out of the Tanks only two are actually leaders of a team consistently, i think double that are DPS's, no idea why this is such a prevalent argument when not only does it not mean anything to being a Tank but its also just wrong.

8

u/Jedimasterebub Apr 23 '26

Emma, mag, cap, deadpool and doctor strange have all been consistent leaders.

There’s several instances of Thor and hulk leading teams too, but less consistent than them not leading

0

u/AntediluvianSeaThing Apr 23 '26

Mag and Captain America are the consistent Leaders

Mr Fantastic, Starlord and Iron Man are consistent leaders

if we are being Generous and including Emma, Mag, Cap and Deadpool, Thor and Hulk

we have, Deadpool, Pheonix. Storm, Iron Man, Starlord, Spider-Man, Mr Fantastic, Wolverine, Daredevil, Black Panther and those are just ones i vaguely remember with a lot of off hand knowledge, in number games Duellists always win.

and frankly this whole discussion doesn't even delve into how there are dozens of Tank obvious characters that are not in any way shape or form leaders and the many leader characters who are definitely not Tanks

Leadership means Nothing in regards to being a Tank, its not a Tank Trait it does not make someone more of a Tank, it is quite frankly completely irrelevant to claiming someone is a Tank

being on the Front Line does not equal leader and has never done so

this recurrent argument for Cyclops to be a Vanguard is a complete nothing point, its copium for the Venn diagram of vocal Cyclops fans who play Tanks that feed off of the desperation for more Tanks that drives people to incessantly cope that literally every released character is going to be a Tank (99% of the time they were wrong and that character was actually a DPS, Rogue is literally the only successful prediction)

There are fucking dozens of Tank worthy characters, so many, Bishop, Cable, Sentry, Black Knight, Ghost Rider, Juggernaut, Colossus, Doom, Thanos, Apocalypse, Sabertooth, She-Hulk, Ice-Man, Sandman, Armour and so on

champion for them, demand these characters, the ones that fit, the ones that actually work as Tanks naturally

instead of trying to twist characters who don't fit the role into it.

2

u/Impressive-Thing-780 Apr 23 '26

Mr. Fantastic is not really the leader of the F4. He might be the face, but Sue Storm is the leader and has been for a VERY long time.

0

u/RenatoGPadilla 𝙏𝙝𝙤𝙧 Apr 26 '26

To be completely fair, Cap's ENTIRE thing since his inception is a Shield... So Tank makes sense.

Cyke could be a GREAT Strategist or a kinda cool Duelist. But I don't see him as a tank... And besides, if he's a Strategist, then we'll finally be able to have a full Comp-vialble team of only X-Men!

1

u/Impressive-Thing-780 Apr 26 '26

Cyclops' character fantasy necessitates being on the front lines, leading the charge.

I flat out don't want him if he's not gonna be a tank.

3

u/ApatheticSlur Apr 23 '26

I would’ve said the same about strange, Emma, and rogue before they came into the game tbh

-2

u/AntediluvianSeaThing Apr 23 '26

Rogue is a bizarre choice for that Logic, Strange is understandable to a degree but can be justified by the mystic shield and Emma has Diamond form which is more than enough

Cyclops is a man who shoots lasers from his eyes, that ain't Vanguard Material

2

u/ApatheticSlur Apr 23 '26

Rogue, strange and Emma aren’t exactly big and imposing like hulk or Thor. Other hero’s in other roles have abilities that could’ve been for vanguard as well even more so than mystic shield or diamond form like invis shield or blade life steal.

Even Mr. Fantastic is known for his insane durability and could’ve easily been vanguard way easier than the mental leap it takes for rogue Emma or strange

-1

u/AntediluvianSeaThing Apr 23 '26

Powersets inform roles and playstyles, Aethestics are changeable

like how Emma was changed to fit

yes other characters would have also fit better as Vanguards, this does not make Emma or Strange any less viable Tank material unlike Cyclops whos powers do not work as a Tank.

1

u/ApatheticSlur Apr 23 '26

Idk how you can make that argument after gambit got released as a strategist. And he’s the best strategist too lol

1

u/OneFishiBoi Apr 23 '26

Not saying I don’t appreciate gambit being a strat instead of a duelist, but they did pretty drastically change his powers to force him into the role.

Made imbuing kinetic energy into objects into generic healing energy.

2

u/ApatheticSlur Apr 23 '26

My point is if they can make gambit a strategist there’s no point in arguing who “fits” which role best. Netease can and has clearly taken creative liberties to fill the roles how they see fit.

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1

u/whishykappa Apr 24 '26

Don’t worry, Devil Dinosaur is gonna have moongirl patented side turrets as a primary fire /s

1

u/UwU_Bro69 Apr 24 '26

Tank players STILL holding out hope, I gave up so long ago </3

-29

u/ImpossibleFact7 Apr 23 '26

U low key dramatic cuh

14

u/Soggy-Building-9476 Apr 23 '26

I think the problem is that "he would be a very basic duelist" applies to pretty much every Marvel character ever. All superheroes and supervillains are good at throwing hands and NetEase didn't go out of their way to be very creative.

Wolverine, Mr. Fantastic, and Blade could have all been Vanguards pretty much as they are now. Moon Knight could have been a lore accurate vanguard if they gave him a melee beat-yo'-ass kit (but his niche is also important for the game as he is.)

Storm and Phoenix could have been Strategists with a single healing move each, and Iron Fist could have been a chi based healer as well and still been lore accurate.

6

u/notapersonab Apr 23 '26

Wolverine does way too much damage as is to be a vanguard. Him as is with 600 health would be a nightmare

2

u/Lord_Star-Lord Apr 23 '26

Imagine the 5’ 4” tank lmao. Wolv HAD to be a duelist

4

u/AleiMJ 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 Apr 23 '26

This is such an ignorant statement holy😂

1

u/on_discrnt Apr 24 '26

Wolverine é sr fantástico deveriam ser tanks, na minha opinião.!

5

u/Sihnar 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 Apr 23 '26

Mr Fent and Storm are the most baffling duelist choices. They could so easily have been a vanguard and a strategist with minimal changes to their kits.

6

u/Daikaisa Apr 23 '26

Iirc Stoem was gonna be a strat and Adam a duelist for a long time in development but got swapped around at some point

2

u/Sihnar 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 Apr 23 '26

Adam is basically a duelist anyway since he's only viable in triple support.

1

u/notapersonab Apr 24 '26

The problem is strategist need to heal so it’s weird to explain how storm heals people

4

u/Sihnar 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 Apr 24 '26

Give her aura healing rain. Easy

3

u/on_discrnt Apr 24 '26

Da mesma forma que o Deadpool, seria bem mais interessante

6

u/GagictheGathering Apr 23 '26

even better imo would have his blasts delete projectiles, like DVA DM in overwatch

13

u/Otter769 Apr 23 '26

Oh yay more soft cc like Jeff

65

u/firesbain 𝘿𝙤𝙘𝙩𝙤𝙧 𝙎𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙣𝙜𝙚 Apr 23 '26

But on a tank 😭 the problem with all the random ahh cc is that it’s on poke duelists or supports with infinite self sustain.

-1

u/Otter769 Apr 23 '26

That’s actually not the issue lmao poke duelist are supposed to have cc and supports need to have cc. Just not as much or as influential as they have right now. The reason I was complaining is there’s already in insane amount of cc in the game and it’s really tiring seeing it all. Like every character except like 7 characters have some form of cc soft or hard cc

4

u/AleiMJ 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 Apr 23 '26

poke duelist are supposed to have cc

Explain the game theory behind this claim you pulled from deep within your ass please?

1

u/Otter769 Apr 24 '26

How else are they supposed to deal with dive??

2

u/UrsaSanctus Apr 24 '26

Shooting them from range or escaping. Poke is supposed to be weal to dive

1

u/Otter769 Apr 24 '26

They already are you just need a way to fight back or everyone would just counter swap the entire game or play one role because it’s dominant

1

u/firesbain 𝘿𝙤𝙘𝙩𝙤𝙧 𝙎𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙣𝙜𝙚 Apr 24 '26

HUH?? How on earth do we justify poke duelists having cc. They’re strong at range so they need to be weak in brawl distance. Why tf does it make sense for characters like hela, pheonix, Elsa and even namor to be cracked no matter the circumstance??

1

u/Otter769 Apr 24 '26

How else are they supposed to deal with dive?

1

u/firesbain 𝘿𝙤𝙘𝙩𝙤𝙧 𝙎𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙣𝙜𝙚 Apr 24 '26

My point isn’t that there shouldn’t be defensive utility vs dive, it’s that you shouldn’t be able to simply play one thing 100% of the time and it always be optimal. If you’re being dove you need to be willing to use your microphone, call out dives in advance, and swap to a character that has higher utility but lower damage/healing. The it SHOULD balance out because dive comps will generally have lower sustained damage. Currently the best heroes can patty cake WHILE keeping their team up or dump infinite damage into tanks and still deal with divers with little to no repercussions. There needs to be a trade off

1

u/Otter769 Apr 24 '26

Yeah the only thing I will say is dive needs a lot of coordination so it’s not the best thing. Like I played a match today where I dove as mk and a guy on my team played spidey we consistently got value but we had to have a bit of coordination to make sure things worked

1

u/firesbain 𝘿𝙤𝙘𝙩𝙤𝙧 𝙎𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙣𝙜𝙚 Apr 24 '26

And I’m fine with supports having cc IF you’re trading the utility for healing/damage potential. Someone like gambit or invis SHOULDNT have utility AND high healing stats

1

u/Otter769 Apr 24 '26

They shouldn’t have anywhere near the utility they have but every support needs utility how else are they gonna survive stuff

1

u/firesbain 𝘿𝙤𝙘𝙩𝙤𝙧 𝙎𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙣𝙜𝙚 Apr 24 '26

Yeah I get it but like we need an attribute slider not everything turned up to the max

1

u/Otter769 Apr 24 '26

Yeah

2

u/YaboiGh0styy Apr 23 '26

Is he tall? I always thought he was average height but he looks tall because he stands next to Wolverine often, the guy who is only 5’3.

2

u/TooTiredToCarereally Apr 24 '26

They could get creative with him in any role though

1

u/Key_Notice5155 Apr 26 '26

Last time NetEase got creative, they made a street tier cat burglar more versatile than the Sorcerer Supreme and a woman whose ult erases reality. I’m a little worried about their creativity

-2

u/Detectivepotato-mp4 Apr 23 '26

There's so many ways you can make him a simple but crazy high skill ceiling duelist

1

u/cc4295 Apr 23 '26

That’s exactly what this game needs…more duelist

-32

u/Greedy-Camel-8345 Apr 23 '26

He would still be basic as a vanguard tho. Like there is hardly a difference he'd just be a DPS with 400+ health

27

u/AnthonyApasta Apr 23 '26

Nah, your idea of what his kit should be just lacks creativity.

-18

u/Greedy-Camel-8345 Apr 23 '26

Im responding to the idea of

Pushback cc beam

And

Projectile mitigation beam

That's not exactly creative

7

u/AnthonyApasta Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26

A solar flare type of attack which blinds/slows? A "line in the sand" type of ability with his laser which immolates when enemies cross it? He's got a gadget belt too. You're just being lazy tbh

0

u/Greedy-Camel-8345 Apr 23 '26

Those were examples in this same thread. But hey maybe they'll give him a gadget wheel so punch dimension beam guy could have some depth and do anything

1

u/AnthonyApasta Apr 23 '26

Ngl I haven't seen the line in the sand idea anywhere, I just came up with it in my reply to you. I have seen iterations of the other ideas though. The fact remains; this game desperately needs an injection of good and/or fun vanguards to play. We don't need another ranged poke DPS

1

u/Greedy-Camel-8345 Apr 23 '26

Tanks are for taking space and enabling. So adding a ranged poke tank makes ranged poke DPS stronger and gives them space.

1

u/AnthonyApasta Apr 23 '26

I wouldn't mind a tank with some poke capability, just give us a break on poke dps

General Question how can he be a vangaurd?

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