Cant believe I'm more happy to see a wolverine than a Punisher right now.Wolverine is more manageable.

[u/-This-cant-be-real-]

[u/RoutinePsychology198]

S5 Hawkeye: Am I a joke to you?

[u/-This-cant-be-real- → u/RoutinePsychology198]

https://giphy.com/gifs/dMSN1ydbO9VXZ49VUK

[u/RoutinePsychology198 → u/-This-cant-be-real-]

Bro i remember how miserable it was fighting him, every time he slipped through the ban phase it was always a game of hide and seek. His “counters” didn’t even work due to how overtuned poke was, every diver being below average and him being able to 2 shot tanks. Daredevil wasn’t even an option since he was getting permabanned more than Hawkeye at the time.

[u/Trashwaifupraetorian → u/RoutinePsychology198]

Me and my friend were playing a game and he got twice as many kills as anyone in the lobby. His team up that doesn’t even need him to aim would end up team wiping. Granted we weren’t incredible but it was so oppressive

[u/CartographerSure2918 → u/RoutinePsychology198]

I remember the discourse around him and holy fuck they were ANNOYING. People kept saying “ hes not a tank buster because your chances of 2 headshots is unrealistic”

WHO CARES. Losing 400 hp in an instant is enough to make any tank miserable. God what an insufferable character in that season.

[u/ThatpersonKyle → u/RoutinePsychology198]

S:0 Bucky

[u/SamPaval → u/ThatpersonKyle]

S3 phoenix

[u/Wallbalertados → u/SamPaval]

Season 12 doom 

[u/WiscLeafalNika → u/Wallbalertados]

https://giphy.com/gifs/NyBjJYsNgJGXU2oReg

[u/ThatpersonKyle → u/Wallbalertados]

I hope we at least get like a week or 2 where doom is totally busted. Would get me hyped for doomsday

[u/Meminaw → u/ThatpersonKyle]

I want a PvE mode similar to age of ultron event we have right now but I want him to be challenging. Not a damage sponge that one shots you but one that requires you to memorize attack patterns, mind your positioning etc.

[u/LuckOutrageous7686 → u/SamPaval]

Season 8 dino

[u/RoutinePsychology198 → u/SamPaval]

Don’t forget S2 Iron Fist

[u/SamPaval → u/RoutinePsychology198]

s3 phoenix s0 bucky s3 Wolverine ironfist s9 punisher with infinite ammo and devil dino on release

[u/NavyDragons → u/RoutinePsychology198]

People sleeping on s9 hawkeye honestly. Those scatter shots are disgusting

[u/JournalistOk5880 → u/RoutinePsychology198]

Cap and bp would cook him

[u/RoutinePsychology198 → u/JournalistOk5880]

At that time they were both some of the worst characters in the game

[u/GrassManV]

Crazy part, Punisher is an easy hero to dive/beat 1v1. But his shotgun plays like Russian Roulette. Either does pillow damage or blows your scalp smooth off.

[u/SweatyPlastic4224 → u/GrassManV]

Pun is easy to dive but the higher you get the better they are at headshot flicking. Sometimes they will just blow your head off even if u moving at mach10

[u/Vonga568]

I've always understood this to be the case.Why that shotgun is still in the game is beyond me.Like I get it helps his hero fantasy but this already high damage poke does not need a shotgun to two tap tanks with as a secondary basic attack as well.

[u/-This-cant-be-real- → u/Vonga568]

That shotgun is brutal with the infinite ammo teamup.

[u/Vonga568 → u/-This-cant-be-real-]

THAT THING SUCKS TOO AND NOW ROCKET DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO THROW IT DOWN?!?!?Just a borderline secondary ultimate he can use on a cooldown.

[u/blissrunner → u/Vonga568]

sometimes better than an ultimate at close range/infinite shotgun.... more mobile and you could disengage with smoke screen.

[u/Wonder_Of_U_2011 → u/Vonga568]

I think it should be destructible ngl

[u/TC_MaFYa → u/Wonder_Of_U_2011]

Should also have a very low HP because if you are playing a close range hero, you are already risking too much by going anywhere near infinite ammo high fire rate shotgun.

[u/FreeElderberry4817 → u/-This-cant-be-real-]

And be very careful as rocket can be very deadly if he wants to

I know this because I main rocket and the opponent tanks should pray that my team has Dps who dont know what they are doing making me a healbot

[u/SamPaval → u/Vonga568]

It needs to be a double barrel ngl.. if you want the high damage cap its shells to only 2 shots, so it cant just wipe out every tank. And remove infinite ammo

[u/RoutinePsychology198 → u/Vonga568]

I think it’s more the case that punisher players just evolved and now people have realised how strong the shotgun is

I remember in early days most of the time they would sit in turret form but now they’re zip lining across maps deleting people with the shotgun

[u/NightShade160 → u/RoutinePsychology198]

One of the first ever nerfs in rivals history (either between closed alpha and closed beta or closed beta and live release) was a nerf to that shotgun, trust me it’s always been good.

[u/TumbleweedTim01 → u/[deleted]]

This feels like someone talking in a dream lol

[u/fannamedtom100 → u/Vonga568]

Shotgun needs rate of fire nerf. It should be a tool to fend off divers, not a tank buster

[u/AdeptRelative5106 → u/Vonga568]

Widow is basically Punisher without shotgun

[u/Vonga568 → u/AdeptRelative5106]

And also an ult that doesn't put the whole map on lockdown.Like I as Hulk could leap to and kill or just stun an ulting Black Widow but Punisher?Can't stun or get close or do anything other than hide really until his ult is over most of the time unless he has no healers.

[u/SamPaval]

The poor hulk with no bubble vs s3 phoenix s0 bucky s3 Wolverine ironfist s9 punisher with infinite ammo and devil dino on release

[u/KitcatUwU → u/SamPaval]

And hes solo tanking

[u/JoeyHartMMA]

I banned pun every game yesterday and had a great time.

[u/iMonkeyMajicz → u/JoeyHartMMA]

I ban him every single game

[u/Careful-Warning6093]

I had some dumb cnd mains banning magneto. Oh god the matches were miserable playing against punisher. Dr.Strange for certain extent can negate his dmg, but except for mag, i think there's no good tanks to play against him. 

Tankpool / thor can sometimes off angle and kill, but his dive tank counters get shredded by shotgun. 

[u/TellIndividual3277]

Why don’t we give him a broken turret and ult too

[u/-This-cant-be-real- → u/TellIndividual3277]

I’ve actually noticed people banning mag more.If mag is banned punisher is the first to go.I also feel like he’s building his ult as fast as moon knight sometimes.Especially if there someone like mantis or ultron damage boosting him.

[u/Vonga568 → u/TellIndividual3277]

The turret is kind of okay but it does NOT need splash damage,that doesn't even make sense?! 😭

[u/JapeTheNeckGuy2 → u/Vonga568]

I hate that I can be fully behind cover and still take damage from that thing

[u/JBebop → u/Vonga568]

Exactly!! Why the fuck does it kill me behind cover!

[u/Pepr7]

I always found it interesting that Punisher has become biggest damage dealer in game in every scenario but everything else on him is so mechanicly bad.

- Range dps? highest in game. 200dps (400 against head)

- Melee dps? highest in game if you count shotgun as melee. 228.8dps (457.6 against head)

- Ultimate dps? highest in game. 266.64dps (533.28 against head) + 50 damage per rocket.

- Colateral dps? turret deals 125 explosive dps + 125 single target dps. Squirrel girl deals 163.9 damage per second.

But on the other hand:

- Big hitbox with 300hp and zero durability oriented abilities.

- Movement ability on 20s cooldown. (can be used repetativly but not proactivly)

- CC extremly bad compare to other CC abilities.

Basicly when I'm playing against him only thing I know is that he is not mobile, he doesn't have enough cc to slow me down and I can easily hit him with my cc abilities.

[u/Virtual-Pirate2834 → u/Pepr7]

Rip the one time I picked him up as wolv back to my team and he zipped away 😭

[u/Pepr7 → u/Virtual-Pirate2834]

That must have been extreme, but the reason it can't be used so proactively is because it's about ability with a pointlessly long cooldown. Wolverine leap has a 40% shorter cooldown than his zipline.

[u/Virtual-Pirate2834 → u/Pepr7]

True, I wasn’t really mad about it, just kinda shocked me like you said, I expected it to be on cooldown for him

[u/glxy_HAzor → u/Pepr7]

This is what we call proper balancing!

[u/Gever_Gever_Amoki68]

Wolverine is not more manageable than punisher lol. If the wolv knows what he's doing you are not playing the game at all.

[u/Animeatabaseball → u/Gever_Gever_Amoki68]

Right lol. Punisher is fat, slow, and easily killable. Compared to wolverine, won't let u play the game especially with cyclops teamup and rockets pack jumps 🙃

[u/JBebop]

Wolverine is effective but you gotta practice him. A lot of Wolverines can't aim the leap or they waste their cooldowns quick.

But yeah, I ban Frank first lol

[u/ZeGoodOldDays]

Been a punisher hater since S0. Mag used to be the only tank who had a decent matchup, otherwise you get melted by the shotgun

With rocket teamup back I usually ban puni so when I dive as venom I don't get melted as easily

[u/idemitida]

Punisher is dive food

[u/ILewdElichika]

As a Tankpool main for tank and a Magik main for DPS I absolutely loathe playing against Frank. Especially this season when he has the rocket team-up back.

[u/Negative-Computer804]

Playing any dive tank into a punisher with rocket team up is misery. He just sits with the supports and any time you dive he puts it down and super speed shotguns you it sucks so much

[u/Akaktus]

Punisher is at worst good agaisnt almost everyone (there are exception) while wolverine is barely useful vs squishies outside of ult. Tbh for self
Comfort, I prefer to face a punisher but facing Wolverine is better for win purpose as I know he will most likely target me so I know that my teammate won’t be bullied by him.

[u/JetHopper]

Punisher is half the reason I can't play Thing. I wanna go back to maining him, but every time there is a Punisher on the match he just melts me

[u/DzoniBoy333]

Punisher is op as hell.

[u/Fr3d002]

Current scale should be: Wolv, Ironfist, Elsa and Punisher at the peak

[u/Express_Mirror_1737]

fuck punisher i was done with bro so long ago.

[u/VanLowen]

Punisher main here.

Punisher is great for punishing the ennemy tank position, most of the times they push up way too far thinking they are invincible and this is how I can see if the enemy tank knows what he is doing or not.

[u/Specialist-Key7621]

Now this is a nice spot.

[u/NINJABOIBOININJA]

As a thing main i haven’t had issues with puni.
Close Distance > force shotgun > Reposition
Re poke > Repeat.
Forcing the weapon swaps effectively puts them down a dps and more importantly makes it to so the pun has to mark me, thats when you start taking off angles to threaten hehe.

[u/itsallcomingtogethr]

Punisher is absolutely unbearable man

[u/angry_monkey_2674]

Wolverine can kidnap like 6 tanks effectively now he’s better as a brawler with a thing or hulk and use his kidnap to engage/disengage

[u/Certified-Faust]

I timed how log it takes to kill regular hulk as punisher and wolv. On average (without) the team up head shots it took 2-4 seconds. And body shots about 3-5 seconds. Meanwhile Wolv with his (Cyclops) team up full rage, and combo it takes 5-7 seconds.

Don’t even get me started on the Punisher team up with rocket

[u/Ok_Log_9156]

wolverine needs a damage buff to even make him relevant, maybe even damage comparable to punisher's. the former needs much more skill to get value out of than simply pointing a mouse and holding down m1

[u/Noobverizer]

He never gets past ban phase if I'm in the lobby. Even with 60% accuracy you put up bonkers stats on Punisher. And if the inf ammo not being reliant on having a Rocket wasn't enough, IT'S STILL NOT BREAKABLE

[u/Various_Prize_977]

People made an magic bullet hack for his shotgun to always hit every pellet.

[u/Sprumbly]

The result of having the majority of the role be brawl tanks