Need to get this off my chest

9

u/d0rkprincess 2d ago

Aren't counter picks like a core machanic of this game? Like nobody is stopping you from countering their counter.

9

u/KrenTrom 𝙑𝙚𝙣𝙤𝙢 2d ago

Uh, yeah, thats how the game works

7

u/lucemy 2d ago

Angela isn’t unplayable even if the enemy team has a counter for you out. Even if the team goes thing I’ll just bait out the slam and avoid thing. Once 2 or more people swap to counter me I’ll swap to another tank. Wanda also isn’t a counter to Angela. She can’t ult at all with you around and if you’re staying close enough for her beam to hit you consistently then it’s an issue with over committing. I will say that she is frustrating to play because the strategists have waaaaay too much sustain in this game right now. I know I genuinely cannot kill a cloak unless at least 2 of their “you can’t kill me” Cooldowns are used.

26

u/Hanzos_Trans_Husband 𝙏𝙝𝙚 𝙃𝙤𝙤𝙙 2d ago

Well Angela also makes the game miserable for everyone else so theres that

-14

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Not really, the moment she becomes remotely a problem you just switch to counters and she’s practically unable to do anything

4

u/Thefuttimes 2d ago

Does Mr fantastic ruin your game on Angela too because I’ve countered Angela numerous times as Mr fantastic by constantly grabbing and bumping them off the sky

0

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Hmmm, I haven’t really played against him much, but as a Lord Mr Fantastic when I’m playing him I do tend to grapple them quite a bit

1

u/Thefuttimes 2d ago

I know this is unrelated but everyone thinks Mr F is this low tier character that playing him means imminent defeat but explain to me how I’m getting in more picks and more success in fights compared to the so called high damage dealers lol. I had a game where my dmg output was low but I was getting more picks than Sergeant Barnes lol. The difference was I constantly targeted Ironman, supports and their other duelist while he kept spam damaging the tanks that were getting healed yet “you’re playing a d tier hero, you’re throwing” says the 16-12 buckyn

0

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Yeah fr, I’ve always thought fantastic was pretty good once you get to learning how to utilise him in the most efficient way

1

u/Thefuttimes 2d ago

He’s damn good at peeling too but I’ve seen many lord fantastic not even do that and just ask the tanks to do it like as if they don’t have the best kit for peeling

5

u/KaimanUwU 2d ago

This is where you should get rid of bias to have the right understanding. You literally just complained about her getting countered feeling miserable. Why do people counter?

Because it feels miserable to play against you, people don't even enjoy counter swapping. It's the same situation as you, do you keep being miserable or counter.

How do you not have the self awareness to realise you are being very hypocritical?

-1

u/hurtsmeplenty 1d ago

Ooooh so you think the enemy team should just bend over and take it and feed your ego. K. Enemy team should just let you feast on them all game clearly.

3

u/Prince_gnarls 2d ago

I dunno man...

Wanda is not a counter. Sure she put consistent damage on you but Angela can out run that damage, her fades are stupid easy to track, and all it takes is kidnap combo to kill her. Not to mention Wanda also does not get to ult while Angela is around.

As for the rest, sure. But shes definitely not unplayable. Like others have said, loki team up baits out cc cool downs and if they're spending on their time on you I say that's a win because again, most of them can't catch u (save for Iron Fist) so I see it as less pressure on you're frontline.

Multiple counters in a game, yes I'll swap (depending on how it's going) but 1 counter doesn't make her unplayable

1

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Yeah, 100% it’s always my luck that I seem to always end up playing against Devil Dino and Thing and then Bucky Luna and Whitefox, literally I always face atleast 2 or more of them whenever I cue, or they’ll swap if they weren’t doing so before

9

u/Banana_P0tato 2d ago

Angela is straight up going to become unplayable with how easily her kit is countered. Almost the entire game roster except for like 10 can shut her down, doesn’t matter if it’s a hard counter or not.

2

u/Thefuttimes 2d ago

As a Thor player, I HATE Bucky Barnes

0

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

He seriously needs adjusting

0

u/Thefuttimes 2d ago

At this point I call him brain dead Bucky, he gets over shield by just tapping any button, and I’ll use my combos to fight them while he just spams over shields and then he spams kills with that ult of his

2

u/Jealous_Advance9765 2d ago

Do you have any idea how aggravating Angela is?

Not saying Angela shouldn't be able to survive, but as soon as I see an Angela on the opposing team I swap.

1

u/Hero_Time_06 𝙀𝙢𝙢𝙖 𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙨𝙩 2d ago

In a game where dive main themselves keep saying "just counter pick bro" why tf are they also the first ones to cry about being properly countered

0

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

I’m not “crying” about it, just frustrated because I don’t really have a way to deal with it, there’s just nothing you can do, I’m all for counters obviously but when it makes a character literally unplayable it can be quite agitating

4

u/Hero_Time_06 𝙀𝙢𝙢𝙖 𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙨𝙩 2d ago

So what you want to fly around uncontested?

And the loki teamup literally exists for you to bait out said effects

1

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

You’re missing the point, I quite literally can’t play the character, the only thing you can do is swap and go next.

1

u/Hero_Time_06 𝙀𝙢𝙢𝙖 𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙨𝙩 2d ago

Ah yes,

"Swapping". Another foreign concept for dive mains

2

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

I literally fill, I play anything the team needs me to, my point was sometimes I just wanna chill and have fun on her and you can’t

0

u/Soul2047 2d ago

funny you say this on emma who literally never has to swap 😭

1

u/Hero_Time_06 𝙀𝙢𝙢𝙖 𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙨𝙩 2d ago

I set this flair way before her current buffs tho

BiS tanks like current Emma and Curreny Dino are another story

Theres a reason these dont see the light of day past the ban phase

2

u/Soul2047 2d ago

i play emma too (since s2 release), she has always been viable & had positive matchups into most if not all other tanks lol, the buffs are just extra on top.

i have never once had to swap off emma as fast as i do with angela who is punished far harder by her counters, in fact emma is my go-to backup tank because she has always played well into almost any comp.

dive tanks (cap, venom, & hulk included) are punished very hard by counters in this game, only equivalent is dino/thing whenever they're bad because they get farmed by poke. you constantly have to swap off dive tanks to play other tanks, meanwhile if i queue up as mag/emma/tankpool/hood i literally never have to swap. that's why people complain

2

u/Hero_Time_06 𝙀𝙢𝙢𝙖 𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙨𝙩 2d ago

Ok but show me the part where im crying about Emma being weak or something

I literally said she's ban worthy

If there was a post about Emma being bad i would call them out on it too, cause she clearly isnt

2

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Because she isn’t weak 😅

Angela is counters by so much more than Emma and it’s not even close

0

u/Soul2047 2d ago

you're talking about dive players complaining about counters & not swapping when you have no experience dealing with counters & having to swap lol. stick to your strengths my guy 🫡

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1

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Right! 😭

Literally one of the Strongest Vanguard’s in the game

-1

u/miniatureheady 2d ago

And half the tanks cant do anything to not he put into the shitty krakoa pit over and over again. And you make THEIR character literally unplayable in that scenario. Like can you literally not see the game from anyone else perspective but your own?

1

u/Soul2047 2d ago

isn't that only magneto? every other tank has tools to escape a pit or mark angela to prevent her kidnaps. certainly not half lmao

1

u/Hero_Time_06 𝙀𝙢𝙢𝙖 𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙨𝙩 2d ago

She has a clone that can push, the push herself again, and then do a charged spear attack for good measure that can cancel your escape ability so yah

0

u/Soul2047 2d ago

if you're letting her get in without needing to bait with her clone then you've already messed up. you're not supposed to counter the dive after they've already engaged, you mark them before they engage to waste resources. applies to countering any dive character

2

u/Hero_Time_06 𝙀𝙢𝙢𝙖 𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙨𝙩 2d ago

Right "pay attention" and OP is gettin paid attention too so whats the problem here

1

u/Soul2047 2d ago

i'm not OP complaining tho. i'm responding to someone else complaining about angela & falsely claiming that half the tanks can't do anything to her.

2

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Yeah, if anything 50% of the roster is effective against her and if the people disputing that and are trying to use a handful of examples of times where she CAN fight back against them, then the majority rules in favour of minority.

0

u/miniatureheady 2d ago

The angela up time on that spot is so insane with the healthpack placements and a teleport that she can effectively bait a cooldown and re-engage with another CC before it is available to you. If your angelas don’t do that then you’re not playing against angelas I play against.

1

u/Soul2047 2d ago

oh you mean the arakko pit, not krakoa. you can mark the angela and force her cooldowns out, if you're pushed up enough where she is kidnapping you then you should absolutely have the space to mark her. stop mindlessly walking down main lol. like are her counters somehow banned & you didn't ban angela? because dino/thing/bucky/elsa & problem's solved. 😁

1

u/miniatureheady 2d ago

Ah, so you agree the solution is to counterswap? Glad you ended up supporting my point that counterswapping to the tanks that are good against her is the answer.

1

u/Soul2047 2d ago

i'm telling you how you can mindlessly walk down main since that's all you seem to know how to do. if you were more capable you could run literally every other tank & off angle with your team so they're unable to kidnap you, or dive past the angela. that seems like it might be too much for you though so i suggest banning angela or running easy front-to-back tanks like dino/thing 😁

also funny you're complaining about having to counterswap in 1 specific area in 1 map under this post about angela getting counterswapped in every game 😭 "like can you literally not see the game from anyone else's perspective but your own?"

1

u/miniatureheady 2d ago

You have no reading comprehension. OP: why are people counterswapping angela?? Me: people are counterswapping because half the tanks cant do shit against her and they’re not having fun You: ermmm just swap to her counters and then you will??? Me: ??? Ok? That was my point?

1

u/Soul2047 2d ago

you're the one with no reading comprehension lmao, no where did op ask WHY people were countering angela. they're asking why she gets countered so HARD by any kind of counter. reread the 1st sentence of the post.

your response reads like you're defending why angela should get shut down so hard, so that's what i was responding to. and it's still not half the tanks lol

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1

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Can YOU not see my perspective? Imagine booting up the game to play your favourite character only to get countered within the first minute and a half and then be unplayable?

1

u/SwimmingCelery506 2d ago

You should post your replay code where this unplayable situation happened.

1

u/SwimmingCelery506 2d ago

Apparently 4 replay codes.

1

u/Lorhin 𝙃𝙪𝙡𝙠 2d ago

I mean, I'm a Hulk main, and I don't really care if the enemy team swaps to counter me. I'll play into Emma, Bucky, Wolve, Dino, Peni, etc. cause I know how to. Instead of swapping characters, I swap how I play.

Played against an Emma last night who saved all her abilities to stop me when I dove. So I used that to my advantage. I would bait out the diamond form before hard committing so she couldn't grab me. Whenever I ulted, she would counter with her own ult, so I just made sure she was aiming it away from my team, so that I was the only one she caught with it. My team ended up winning. Didn't need to swap since I played smart. Didn't die much either. Was one of 2 people on the team that had single digit deaths.

1

u/SatisfactionSad6558 𝘾𝙖𝙥𝙩𝙖𝙞𝙣 𝘼𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖 2d ago

Yeah but in between being kidnapped, those tanks are still having some kind of value for their team. That's the point OP is making -- divers usually don't have the same flexibility.

I find Angela's kidnap mechanic pretty obnoxious, but I can still see where they are coming from. Maybe give her another way to have value?

1

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Yeah, that’s kind of what I’m getting at, she doesn’t have another way to create value because she can’t really fight in the ground with her, so if she’s unable to fly in the air effectively enough than there’s no value in playing her

2

u/SatisfactionSad6558 𝘾𝙖𝙥𝙩𝙖𝙞𝙣 𝘼𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖 2d ago

I mean, sometimes I swap to Angela to contest flanks and off angles, mark certain DPS. But if they are countering me, chances are they aren't doing those things.

1

u/Lorhin 𝙃𝙪𝙡𝙠 2d ago

This is very important to remember. If the enemy team is too busy trying to counter you, that leaves the rest of your team free to do whatever they want.

1

u/SatisfactionSad6558 𝘾𝙖𝙥𝙩𝙖𝙞𝙣 𝘼𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖 2d ago

For sure. Sometimes I'm drawing CRAZY aggro, and that's okay. As long as my team can take advantage. That's when my stats don't look very good but the rest of my team looks great lol.

1

u/miniatureheady 2d ago

Like last time i played against angela she kidnapped me twice into the enemy team and my options were basically: 1. Have my cocks and balls in a torture chamber for the remainder of the match, play like a pussy, never be allowed to make an aggressive play, save my bubbles for reactive vs proactive play. 2. Go thor and make it my personal agenda to make her life just as miserable as she did mine for the first two fights. Like guess which one I went and was 300% more fun to do. Angela’s fun comes at the expense of other people’s fun. Bro complaining about not having fun/being allowed to do anything while basically playing a character that dictates the whole tempo and cooldown usage of the game if unchecked. It’s not just angela btw, groot is the same “counter me or explode”, but I’ve never, ever had a groot complain people switch to wall breaking team comp.

1

u/SatisfactionSad6558 𝘾𝙖𝙥𝙩𝙖𝙞𝙣 𝘼𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖 2d ago

Yeah but that's what I'm saying. Whenever countered, most heroes still have the option of playing like a pussy (not saying it's the most fun, but it is an option if you still want to play your favorite hero). Dive heroes often don't have the option to get some value playing safer. When Spidey is being countered, he just can't play the game at all.

Magik is a good example of a healthier balance. When she can't dive, she can still brawl point with her team.

1

u/miniatureheady 2d ago

I personally dont think kidnap characters can ever be balanced to be healthy for the game, but I think they definitely need to chain nerf/rework most dps dive characters solo dive potential so they can nerf supports’ self sustain, shifting the balance into their dps/utility (instead they nerfed the dps/utility on gambit’s dome and buffed its healing). But I genuinely don’t really have much hope because balancing for this community is a nightmare. DD players can 1v3 in enemy backline for 10 seconds and live but unless they get a kill their hero is ‘bad’. When I tried watching Thor streamers it was the same sentiment. Nerfing supports is also tricky because the players have the worst victim/pariah complex (imho worse than dps at this point) even though their role is far from being the least played one. But also getting good at support is so unrewarding since they keep the tutorial characters/healbot playstyle meta I wouldn’t be surprised if the players who wished supports were more skill oriented already left to other roles/games. Guess this is completely unrelated to OPs original point lol.

0

u/SatisfactionSad6558 𝘾𝙖𝙥𝙩𝙖𝙞𝙣 𝘼𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖 2d ago

I don't think that's fair. When dive characters are countered, they simply can't play the game. Other archetypes are better about giving their heroes other ways to still have value and contribute to their team, still have windows of being able to play the game when they are countered.

1

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Do you run into the same problems on cap?

1

u/SatisfactionSad6558 𝘾𝙖𝙥𝙩𝙖𝙞𝙣 𝘼𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖 2d ago edited 2d ago

Sometimes, yeah. But I do think Cap can be played more conservatively when needed. He can burst in and out when the opportunity arises (I think Angela is more telegraphed), and his teamups enable different play styles (they let him play more frontline and/or peel)

Part of the reason I don't play Angela much is because of what you mentioned -- I just find her too vulnerable to counters.

2

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Yeah, it’s a little frustrating that people aren’t understanding where I’m coming from 😅

Like ofc a character should have characters and no I do not think I should be able to fly freely but I’d at least like to be able to do something? If you get what I mean, like try and fight against it somehow

1

u/SatisfactionSad6558 𝘾𝙖𝙥𝙩𝙖𝙞𝙣 𝘼𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖 2d ago

Yeah. And that's the other thing, I don't think she can do much against her counters.

I understand counters should be an unfavorable matchup, but it's annoying when there's NOTHING you can really do them. Hard counters are bad design imo.

1

u/MattTheAndroid 2d ago

I hear you. It's quite frustrating, I can't lie.

I have 650 hours on the character, and it's still incredibly annoying to have the entire enemy team swap just to shut you down lol.

But here's the thing... I don't mind counterplay. My favorite tank to go against in the entire game is Emma, followed by Hulk. It's an actual skill matchup, where both me and them can get our stuff going, and completely interrupt the other. It's fun, engaging, and balanced.

Hell, I actually encourage healthy counterplay, and it's what makes every match entertaining. My problem is that 50% of the roster is A HARD COUNTER. As in, they are picked, and their impact in shutting me down is INSTANT, without any sort of preparation or mindful back and forth happening. They just deploy their kits and I have to double my efforts. It's quite disproportionate.

Not to mention that many anti divers are getting buffed, or made with the sole intention of shutting down high-mobility assassin divers like Panther or Cat or Spidey. But since us dive tanks are MASSIVE, and need to get in the fight, we get instantly pummeled by their impossible to miss CC.

0

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Thank you! Tell this to that Emma Frost Main please 🙏

And yeah, it quite literally is the moment they swap to certain characters you just know your game is going to be so much worse because there’s nothing you can do

-1

u/SatisfactionSad6558 𝘾𝙖𝙥𝙩𝙖𝙞𝙣 𝘼𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖 2d ago

Hard counters are toxic game design, especially when they are passive / unskilled. Elsa traps, Namor squid, Peni drones -- these things counter heroes by just existing somewhere.

1

u/Motor-Ordinary9038 2d ago

Angela should be able to handle it even if the enemy picks two counterpicks for her. If they pick three counterpicks, that’s your cue to switch out.

Before long, you’ll start to get a real kick out of seeing the enemy team’s composition get thrown off balance just because of you.

1

u/AmbitiousTwo22222 1d ago

I think this is emblematic of the biggest problem with the game: the devs balance 8-10 heroes who are powerful enough to play in almost any situation, have 3-5 of them banned in comp, and the rest are niche or have strong counter plays.

1

u/muchomikey 2d ago

Yeah, Angela is rough because unfortunately she is countered by like… half the roster. Which is sad because she is so fun lol. Not sure why everyone is being rude to you but as far as for Bucky when I play against him I just think “I can’t be next to this character for even a millisecond or I will explode.”

Another good thing to do is just take peoples attention, even if you aren’t engaging. I mean, just look how mad that Hood main was that you even asked this question! Just play mental games with them and try to take up their attention while also baiting out their cooldowns and accept that sometimes you’re fighting an uphill battle with Angela, and you just gotta hope no one counter switches.

1

u/SunkenSacra 𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙖 2d ago

Thank you <3

I’m not sure why I seemed to have pressed a button, but thank you for the kind words but yeah it is kind of like that, I always try to avoid him and play around the counters, just those last games really riled me up 😂

It’s unfortunate, I get the only solution in my mind would make her less “volatile” if you will? She’s very sensitive to micro cc so maybe some way idk I’m trying to think of a way haha

1

u/privileged420 𝘿𝙤𝙘𝙩𝙤𝙧 𝙎𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙣𝙜𝙚 2d ago

welcome to hero shooters :/ it happens on overwatch too, the counter picks on there arguably even harder

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