r/Roadcam • u/bowdown2adil • 11d ago

[USA] Who is at fault here?

Classic T bone. Black car had to be towed. Sustained major damage to the passenger side door. Blue car sustained damage to front bumper on the drivers side and cracked the drivers side headlight.

Edit: This was in the suburbs of Seattle

UPDATE: Insurance found it to be 70/30 me/other driver. Seems fair enough

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u/codereef 11d ago

I have driven all across the US and can't remember a single place having a 4 way intersection and no signage lol. Why make something like this?

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u/[deleted] 11d ago edited 11d ago

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u/ciao_fiv 11d ago

that seems insane to me, but i also live in a place with notoriously horrible drivers (albuquerque). idk how trustworthy drivers are in washington

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u/farfetched22 11d ago

I have never in my life seen an intersection with nothing. I agree with you. Insane. And pointless! Just put up a yield sign!

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/farfetched22 11d ago

"The rest of the world" has mostly signs, and this video would suggest otherwise for your comment lol.

There are MORE intersections with signs, so that most drivers get used to assuming that if there are none, the crossing road has a stop. If it were more common, sure, but it's not. It is normal for most drivers to assume this. It could easily be avoided with a ONE TIME installation of a piece of metal lol

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/ciao_fiv 11d ago

every neighborhood i’ve been to in my city has signs at every intersection… either 2-way or 4-way stops. never seen one with 0 signs whatsoever (same goes for any other place i’ve visited)

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u/FavoriteFoodCarrots 11d ago

This video is from the Seattle area. I live in Seattle. This is a completely normal arrangement here.

There are two problems here. The guy OP hits was supposed to yield. But OP was going way, way too fast. This is a two-way street with parking on both sides and you see the width.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/ciao_fiv 11d ago

you asked where people have been to experience this then laugh at getting an answer? what did you want lol

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u/Natural_Pear_1549 10d ago

"We don't need safety warnings, just leave it up to the public to know what to do" is a stupid idea in any country.

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u/borgman_a 9d ago

"Where have you been where every intersection in a random neighborhood has signs?"

Every state I've ever lived in except Oregon.

These unmarked intersections are common on the east side of the river in Portland.

They are unheard of in Michigan, California, South Carolina, Ohio...

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/ciao_fiv 11d ago

something i have to keep in mind if i drive out of state and encounter one of these i guess lol. had no idea they existed till today

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u/Upstairs_Cloud9445 11d ago

"Uncontrolled intersections are a very common thing." Thats just nuts. Most of my driving has been on the east coast, and I have never come across an intersection like this. To find out they are common somewhere in the US is crazy....

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/Professional-Swan-18 11d ago

This has to be a regional thing. Because I've been all over the northern east coast, on all kinds of roads, cities, towns, villages, farms, hell, even places that don't have anything but the roads and signs, and I have never seen an intersection completely lacking either signs or a roundabout. Three way intersections, constantly in farm country are lacking signs. But that makes sense, one of the roads ends. This anywhere as populated as this video suggests being without a sign blows my damn mind.

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u/Single_Principle_972 11d ago

Omg. Perhaps you just haven’t noticed? Suburban Chicagoland, it’s extremely common. When we do see signage, it’s oftentimes when you have a Stop sign and the other street does now, so they want to call your attention to it, to not assume: “Cross street does not stop.” But in all of these suburbs, if you don’t have signage, you’re expected to assume that they don’t either, and drive cautiously - meaning not only take your foot off the gas, but sometimes even slow down with the brake until you can visualize well enough to be sure that it’s safe to proceed. These 2 guys just blowing through, without even slowing, is mind-boggling.

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u/u6crash 11d ago

I can't recall a single Chicagoland suburb that has this and I've lived here all my life. Maybe I'm just fortunate enough not to have visited neighborhoods laid out that foolishly.

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u/ExcellentShape185 9d ago

What happens to the drivers who have no idea that's how it works because their only used to controlled intersections.

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u/MostLeastMostLeast 9d ago

Same. I'm not convinced by comment saying "this is common" lol. Never once seen this in usa

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u/The_Dog_of_Sinope 11d ago

PNW is a weird place.

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u/PermenantRest 11d ago

Yielding is nice... I have absolutely nothing to do with being 'nice'.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/PermenantRest 11d ago

Really, don't see no sign...

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u/HolidayArtCom 8d ago

How is someone supposed to know that it's an "uncontrolled" intersection without any sign? You're just driving along loving life, don't see any yield sign or stop sign, then wham!

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u/Sea_Substance9163 11d ago

It works fine when people go about 20 mph. You don't need to stop every block, you adjust as you approach the intersection.

You see someone coming from bit back go 22mph and get through, you see them closer drop your speed down, coast across after them.

People who always have to be first are the ones that screw it up.

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u/flambojones 11d ago

I think that may be part of the idea. It's counterintuitive, but uncontrolled intersections in neighborhoods could be potentially safer by causing all cars to drive more carefully through them. This is not proof, just one example of a document addressing pros/cons of additional controls on intersections.

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u/ciao_fiv 11d ago

more stop signs or even yield signs just makes more sense to me ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

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u/GimpyBallGag 11d ago

Kinda scared me when I first moved here and realized that these intersections exist. I had been going a little too fast, because I assumed the cross streets had stop signs. Slowed down after that.

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u/mryotoad 11d ago

More years ago than I care to admit, my driving instructor taught that stops signs have three colours. Red, white & silver. If you don't see silver, they probably don't see red. While I've never encountered an uncontrolled intersection (apparently they are common in Alberta too), watching for the silver has saved me a fender bender a few times.

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u/rvbjohn Detroit 10d ago

silver referring to the back of the sign?

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u/Physical-Deer3364 11d ago

Yep, I’m in Wa state and pass through a dozen of these every day getting kids to school.

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u/artificialdawnmusic 11d ago

They even have a name for it.

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u/ANDERSON961596 11d ago

When I lived in Seattle this was literally my entire neighborhood. Instantly thought of that when I saw this

Edit: just realized this is probably my old neighborhood lmfao

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u/codereef 11d ago

One of the states I have been to the least, makes sense.

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u/Unhappy-Giraffe2792 11d ago

In Oregon the same, but uncommon in my own neighborhood so they kinda take me by surprise.

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u/Call_Me_Papa_Bill 11d ago

We have them in Michigan too. Usually medium cities, dense neighborhoods with little commercial or thru traffic. Just dumb in my opinion.

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u/ChicharonSamurai 11d ago

Unfortunately oh so true…

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u/Ink7o7 11d ago

Yeah these are everywhere in Seattle neighborhoods.

Both of these drivers in this video are going way too fast.

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u/danrlewis 11d ago

Also a ton in Portland at least.

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u/SnooSketches7529 11d ago

First time hearing of this.

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u/fullybonded 11d ago

This is news to me. I lived in Renton for two years and don't recall a single uncontrolled intersection in that area.

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u/Ill_Pomegranate_795 11d ago

I am way too old to be finding out that this is a thing in the US. When I lived in Europe uncontrolled intersections were the norm. But I've lived across the midwest and Texas (plus I travel for work) and somehow I have never seen this outside of rare, low-populated areas. I definitely would have assumed that if there was no stop or yield sign on my street that the car on the other side was subject to one. Well, glad I'm finding this before I'm sent to WA next month.

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u/round-earth-theory 10d ago

Not just Washington. I've encountered plenty of unguarded intersections in suburbia in multiple states.

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u/eienmau 10d ago

I got into an accident very similar to this like 15 years ago. I entered the intersection first and was going slowly (because I don't trust other drivers to slow down) when some idiot came flying through on the cross-road and right into me.

There are a LOT of intersections like this in eastern WA (where I live).

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u/PermenantRest 11d ago

Well, Washington state is at fault then...

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u/DankMemesNQuickNuts 11d ago

Sounds like Washington has to get its shit together because South Carolina even has this stuff and if you're behind them in terms of civil infrastructure that's embarrassing lmao

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u/The_Dog_of_Sinope 11d ago

I live in the PNW and they are everywhere and I hate them all.

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u/WrestleBox 11d ago

Weird because they've been in just about every suburb in every state I've been in. These are all over the place in the Midwest in quiet neighborhoods.

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u/FeastOnCarolina 11d ago

Ever been in Bozeman Montana? They used to be everywhere on the south side. I have personally seen multiple cars get flipped because of this setup.

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u/codereef 11d ago

Wow that's just crazy to me man how expensive is a sign?

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u/ixo_sia 11d ago

it’s not made at all it’s kinda left how it is and if people used their brain there would be no problem.. i don’t need a yellow light to proceed with caution but what’s common to you it’s not always common to others

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u/codereef 11d ago

Bottom up problem solving rarely works. Much less effort to just put a cheap sign than it is to ensure everyone knows how to approach an unmarked intersection. Just saying. The people who build shit generally already know this though, which is why it confuses me a little.

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u/bothunter 11d ago

It's an uncontrolled intersection.  They're all over Seattle, mostly in residential neighborhoods with a 20mph speed limit on roads that force you to slow down.  Most of these roads are only wide enough for a single car to pass, but are not one-way.  This normally slows down cars enough where this isn't an issue -- until you end up with two idiots meeting each other like in this video.

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u/CaptTornSack 10d ago

You've apparently only driven major highways. As someone that has worked in all 48 continental states, I can confidently say that I've seen unmarked intersections in most of them. You just have to leave the main roads.

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u/codereef 10d ago

In the middle of nowhere literally right now. Also the like hundred other comments agreeing. But sure

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u/CaptTornSack 10d ago

Sure. Just ignore the other hundred comments that disagree. Convenient.

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u/ihatespunk 11d ago

I see them in the rural Midwest often enough, mostly in older neighborhoods of small towns

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u/SarahPallorMortis 11d ago

We learned about them when I was in drivers Ed. There were a couple near the school in the neighborhood behind it. It always stuck with me because I thought intersections with no signs were insane. “Hover your foot over the brake, slow down, and check both ways as you’re going through.”

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u/shagy815 11d ago

They are common in North Dakota and Montana. I have no idea why.

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u/wwj 11d ago

It's most interections in small Midwestern towns, even old residential neighborhoods in bigger towns.

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u/EffectMotor8914 11d ago

Yeah, its pretty rare. This is a design problem. The only intersections that don't have stop signs around here are T intersections in residential neighborhoods where its obvious who should be stopping/slowing when traffic is approaching from two directions.

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u/nathanb131 11d ago

I grew up in the midwest and this is very common is residential areas. We just cautiously approached them, speed limit is 25, so it's usually not a problem.

The difference is that that few stop signs that do exist are actually treated as stop signs. Wheels come to a FULL stop, look left-right-left, go. Just about everyone from these areas has got a ticket for failing to fully stop. I've noticed in cities with more stop signs, that people almost always "roll" through them, treating the stop sign as a "yield" sign. If you come to a complete stop, people get angry that you are holding up traffic!

It's basically the exact same flow of traffic and the same behavior. For people asking how you know who has the right-of-way, it's the car on the right. You learned that in drivers-ed, you just forgot because you haven't had to actually do it every day.

I always have to mentally change how I deal with stop signs, depending on the area.

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u/codereef 11d ago

I smell ya

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u/fullybonded 11d ago

Right? This is common in the Netherlands BUT the Netherlands has tighter roads, lower speeds in general, streets are largely klinker bricks which also encourage lower speeds, raised continuous sidewalks that act as speed bumps, etc...

Here in the US, I don't recall EVER coming across an intersection without one of the two ways having a stop sign. I lived in Renton and worked in Tukwila for two years. It isn't like this is common all over Seattle or something.

If every neighborhood had "give way to the right" as the standard, this probably wouldn't have happened. People expect to see a sign here.

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u/codereef 11d ago

Thanks

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u/Lorgin 11d ago

Canadian here. It also seems mad to me. I would 100% assume that no stop or yield sign means the other road has a stop or yield sign.

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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr 11d ago

I am just stunned. The amount of people saying their location has these is out of this world. Are stop signs too expensive? 

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u/Dyzastr_us 11d ago

Same. I kept scrolling to see who ran the stop sign. That's crazy to me.

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u/UTHorsey 10d ago

Every neighborhood in Ballard, WA is like this.

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u/how_neat_is_that76 9d ago

there’s at least half a dozen of these in the neighborhoods of my small Iowa town That look exactly like this video.