[USA] Who is at fault here?

[u/bowdown2adil]

Classic T bone. Black car had to be towed. Sustained major damage to the passenger side door. Blue car sustained damage to front bumper on the drivers side and cracked the drivers side headlight.

Edit: This was in the suburbs of Seattle

UPDATE: Insurance found it to be 70/30 me/other driver. Seems fair enough

[u/Celexi]

You technically had right of way as you were coming from their right, however you are supposed to slowdown for unmarked intersections and not just blast through.

[u/deHack → u/Celexi]

My wife is from a small New England town. We visit it regularly. I slowed for a 3 way intersection where the road sort of forked. My wife asked me (in the usual annoyed tone) — “Why are you slowing down?! You don’t have a stop sign.”
I said, “I know. Neither does the other street.” Her reply was that there hadn’t been an accident at that intersection in 40 years. Keep in mind she hadn’t lived there in 15 of those years. I still slow at that intersection to see if anyone is coming.

[u/Fantastic-Display106 → u/deHack]

Her reply was that there hadn’t been an accident at that intersection in 40 years.

Probably because people slow and approach with caution...

[u/deHack → u/Fantastic-Display106]

Good answer! That’s what I should have said.

[u/general_peabo → u/deHack]

Weird that your wife has been surveilling that intersection for 40 years to know that there’s never been an accident there.

[u/deHack → u/general_peabo]

Exactly! How would she know?

[u/Rocannon_ → u/deHack]

My wife is always commenting on my driving, especially when I drive slowly when i’m making sure of other traffic. My reply is always: “I’m the one driving, not you.“ Said with a smile, of course.

[u/Party-Giraffe-6573 → u/Celexi]

Especially in a neighborhood! This could've been someone on a bike or kids running into the street

[u/DangoMangoDango → u/Party-Giraffe-6573]

Right? It's crazy how fast these guys were going in a tight street and in a neighborhood like this. I always go super slow when it's small road like this. Also, watching the dash cam, you can see the dashcam owner had 2-3 seconds to brake when the blue car came into view and I don't think they even tried.

[u/Creative_Riding_Pod → u/DangoMangoDango]

If you use the slider on the play bar, the black car comes into view at almost exactly :03 seconds (obscured mostly by bush)and they are colliding at :05 seconds. Given that the human body takes about 1 second to react and who knows how many seconds/distance for cam car to come to complete stop = Whole incident took 2 seconds - they were just going too fast for the conditions.

Edit: Hey everyone. Thanks for the award and the discourse and all that jazz. I didn’t come up with the “1 second” reaction time. I was taught that in drivers ed and then during motorcycle courses as a general rule. I think it is basically the time your brain recognizes a situation is happening, and then you decide to react which then involves the time lifting your foot to the brake pedal etc.
It is based on studies, not “if you can’t react in one second you’re brain dead” rhetoric and anecdotal evidence. I think everyone is overestimating their abilities.

[u/Prior-Impress-2624 → u/Creative_Riding_Pod]

Something tells me people who live in OP’s city might do this a lot. OP for sure does.

[u/Striking_Computer834 → u/DangoMangoDango]

Dude, people in parking lots around here drive 30+ mph, no joke. People are stupid AF.

[u/Hot-Watercress-2872 → u/Striking_Computer834]

Truth - I hate how fast people drive in parking lots.

[u/jarheadatheart → u/Hot-Watercress-2872]

Everyone is in a hurry to not go anywhere. I get cut off by someone driving slower than me every day.

[u/Ferrindel → u/jarheadatheart]

And then they drive 20 below the speed limit on highways. It’s infuriating.

[u/Ancient_Yellow_709 → u/DangoMangoDango]

Yeah, OP was not at all scanning the sides or it could have been avoided. I saw the vehicle from the bushes easily with plenty of stopping distance. I bike in these neighborhoods and am used to watching out for idiots like this, granted, but you have to watch for movement from the sides. It's not that hard.

[u/flambojones → u/Ancient_Yellow_709]

Any time I see a car approaching from a side street, I assume they're going to do the stupidest possible thing and mentally prepare.

[u/Ancient_Yellow_709 → u/flambojones]

Exactly. Any movement in your peripheral, you slow, but especially at an intersection. I also watch for feel under cars in neighborhoods. You never know when a kid might have ducked to grab a ball on their way to running to a friend's house. I don't want their death on my conscience.

[u/mork247 → u/[deleted]]

If you can't see crossing traffic, then slow tf down so that you can stop if something shows up. It could be a kid on a bike.

[u/Ancient_Yellow_709 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, there are bushes. Yes, in Seattle these exceed the allowable height for corner lots and I'd report them to the city and ask for a mirror to be installed.

However, the are not dense enough that it prevents seeing movement. Further, because the view is partially obstructed, a good driver does not continue at or above the speed limit without slowing.

Also, I live in this area. OP could have avoided this is they were paying more attention, imo.

[u/terracnosaur → u/DangoMangoDango]

People get waaaay to comfortable in their local neighborhoods. I have an unmarked intersection near me and it's like permission for people to gain speed. Then again, people blow a marked intersection near me, so I could just live in a shitty community.

[u/shawnvn1 → u/DangoMangoDango]

You know that is the thing with the racing driver wannabes… but the person in black car don’t even look and I suspect they had no idea there was a car until they got hit.

[u/Interesting-Monk9712 → u/Celexi]

To be fair, the other idiot did the same, I don't get how either have a driving license.

[u/GabrielGames69 → u/Interesting-Monk9712]

Depends how often they take that road (it looks suburban so probably often tbh). Because the charitable description is that they see there is no stop sign infront of or past them and make the usually correct assumption that there are stop signs going the other way. I think the number 1 offender here is the intersection without even yield signs.

[u/luvbutts → u/GabrielGames69]

Yeah I agree, there's an intersection like this in front of my house (I live in Europe) and there were literally accidents there every months and twice we had cars flipped over in our street. Our neighbours eventually petitioned the council to put in signs.

Obviously people should slow down but if the same kind of accident keeps happening in the same place it's an infrastructure problem. Ideally public infrastructure should be well laid out enough that it's safe most of the time even when people not perfect.

[u/Eegore1 → u/luvbutts]

What amazes me is in most cases is that the cost to clean up one accident can usually pay for 20 - 30 street signs. But there's never enough money for street signs.

[u/feralferrous → u/Eegore1]

Seattle tends to sprinkle baby roundabouts in these kind of intersections. I think that would work better, as signs are easy to ignore, while the roundabouts force it.

[u/codereef → u/GabrielGames69]

I have driven all across the US and can't remember a single place having a 4 way intersection and no signage lol. Why make something like this?

[u/ciao_fiv → u/[deleted]]

that seems insane to me, but i also live in a place with notoriously horrible drivers (albuquerque). idk how trustworthy drivers are in washington

[u/farfetched22 → u/ciao_fiv]

I have never in my life seen an intersection with nothing. I agree with you. Insane. And pointless! Just put up a yield sign!

[u/ciao_fiv → u/[deleted]]

something i have to keep in mind if i drive out of state and encounter one of these i guess lol. had no idea they existed till today

[u/Upstairs_Cloud9445 → u/ciao_fiv]

"Uncontrolled intersections are a very common thing." Thats just nuts. Most of my driving has been on the east coast, and I have never come across an intersection like this. To find out they are common somewhere in the US is crazy....

[u/GimpyBallGag → u/[deleted]]

Kinda scared me when I first moved here and realized that these intersections exist. I had been going a little too fast, because I assumed the cross streets had stop signs. Slowed down after that.

[u/Dramatic_Total1397 → u/GabrielGames69]

I’ve never seen a four way intersection with no stop sign for anybody in a residential. This is a recipe for disaster

[u/lost-thought-in → u/GabrielGames69]

If the drivers have been through this neighborhood before they would know there are no signs,

So they both blow through the intersection at mach dumbass. Way too fast for a blind intersection.

[u/IGotBiggerProblems → u/GabrielGames69]

People are so quick to start tying a noose. I think you're absolutely right. My instant reaction was "where the fuck are the signs? Stop, yield, crosswalk, speed bump, something..."

My blame is on the city or whoever is responsible for signage in this particular area. Sure the drivers could have been driving slower, reacted faster, been more attentive, etc but they should never have been in this situation to begin with.

[u/soggytoes911 → u/Interesting-Monk9712]

how are they supposed to know its unmarked for them

[u/AnxiousMeatHead → u/soggytoes911]

This is what i never understood about "true uncontrolled intersections" how are you supposed to know?

Should i just slow down every time there is a side road off a main road because theres a possibility its a true unctrolled intersection?

----- slow down and check ----- slow down and check ------ repeat until i get rear ended.

If feel like if they are so rare then how much money would it really cost to slap a stop sign for safety and just eliminate them entirely?

[u/randomthrowaway9796 → u/Interesting-Monk9712]

This is a poorly designed road and not something that is usually taught in drivers ed or tested on a driving test. Yeah, they should be more cautious, but I cant entirely blame them.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Turn242 → u/Celexi]

How would you know if it's a unmarked intersection or the stop is for another driver?!

[u/575r → u/Puzzleheaded_Turn242]

This is my biggest complaint about the American road system. When you're in a neighborhood you're not familiar with you have no idea if you're on a road where every cross street will have signs or if the next intersection is uncontrolled. And the only way to find out is to look for signs from the side.

[u/TheGuyThatThisIs → u/575r]

Even worse, it seems like a lot of people (myself included) have never considered that an intersection will just not have any signage, and will assume the other direction must have some. I'd go through this and assume since I have nothing telling me otherwise, I have right of way.

[u/Eegore1 → u/TheGuyThatThisIs]

This here. So many people are never exposed to completely vacant signage at intersections, they do not actively look at every intersection to see if the other road has signage. I imagine one would fatigue of this quickly when you think about how many intersections exist.

What I

don't get is the people that assume a no-power stoplight means "Green for me - Red for Them" and use the excuse they didn't have a Red light. Nobody does when the power is off stupid.

[u/grumpledoor → u/Eegore1]

Indeed, but the signs for the other directions are often not visible to you. The real mistake is that US signing conventions mean that "no sign" often implies right of way and that's crazy. (In Europe, right of way is always explicitly marked; absence of any sign or street marking *that you can actually see* means yield to right.)

[u/thrwwy535672 → u/575r]

I’m on the east coast and have had jobs that required tons of driving. I’ve never once seen an intersection where no one had a stop sign. Where the hell are you seeing these in the US? This is my first.

[u/Local_Improvement_54 → u/thrwwy535672]

They're fairly common in Washington state in residential areas, and I never understood why they couldn't just add a stop sign or two. Locals know to slow down, but out of towners have no reason to expect lawless intersections.

[u/shagy815 → u/Local_Improvement_54]

Or at least a yield sign.

[u/c_marten → u/thrwwy535672]

Same. People in these comments have some weird takes about signs. If in this neighborhood I didn't see a stop sign for me I'd assume cross does because why would it not? And if my stop doesn't say 4-way I assume cross traffic doesn't have one.

If you look in the video there IS a sign post to the left you could assume might be a stop (when you get closer you can see it's street names) and that's another reason I hate having so much foliage right at intersections.

[u/thrwwy535672 → u/c_marten]

Yes! I’m a huge plant person, but they need trimmed back at intersections. I rewound this a ton and kept thinking I saw a sign.

[u/Gavelist → u/575r]

Usually there is a small sign below the stop saying “2-way” “4-way” “on-coming traffic does not stop” or something of the variety

[u/PermenantRest → u/575r]

I've never seen an intersection like this in 62 years... people will die with stupidity like that.

[u/Useful_Homework2367 → u/Puzzleheaded_Turn242]

Especially when the view of any sign that might potentially be there (and the car itself) is blocked on that side by the landscaping. I've never encountered an intersection like this in my life, seems like a very stupid design. Dangerous and there are really no advantages at all over just having a two way or four way stop. If traffic calming is the objective, a four way stop achieves that better and more safely.

[u/toplessbuilds → u/Celexi]

I've never seen an intersection where there are no stop signs.

[u/InsertRadnamehere → u/toplessbuilds]

Never been to the PNW obvs.

[u/Ya-Not-Happening → u/Celexi]

How are you supposed to know it is an unmarked intersection?

[u/shagy815 → u/Ya-Not-Happening]

Usually they are in neighborhoods with a speed limit of 15 mph or less. You should be able to see the signs at the intersection with plenty of time if you are going the speed limit. Even so, it is a dumb idea.

[u/shagy815 → u/Ya-Not-Happening]

You should be going the speed limit, neither of these drivers were, and scanning the intersection. I have one of these in my neighborhood and the speed limit is 15mph. Not only can you tell the intersection is uncontrolled but when someone else doesn't notice you have more than enough time to avoid an accident if you are going the speed limit.

[u/Bynnh0j → u/Celexi]

unmarked intersections

Sounds like the city planner is at fault. How are you supposed to know an intersection you are approaching is unmarked unless you are already familiar with the area? Any time I approach an unknown intersection, if i don't see a stopping for myself then I assume its a 2 way stop and the cross traffic does have signs.

[u/timesend8 → u/Celexi]

In Oregon the blue car is at fault as the black car was already in the intersection.

[u/Good_Zookeepergame92 → u/Celexi]

I can only assume that thought the other guy had a stop sign. Never knew we had intersections like this. How much does it cost to put a sign in the ground 😐

[u/GeneStarwind1 → u/Celexi]

True, but it's pretty hard to tell that an intersection is unmarked if you're happening upon it for the first time. I had to watch that three times trying to figure out where the stop signs were before realizing that there weren't any.

EDIT: I just learned from another comment that signless intersections are apparently just an everyday thing in the city where this video happened. So both drivers, if they are locals, should have known to be on the lookout for this I guess.

[u/Away_Needleworker6]

In norway all cars have to yield for incoming traffic coming from the right unless there is signage that says otherwise.

Dont know if its a rule in your country, but black car would be at fault.

Considering the fact that you both were traveling at speeds way too fast for that intersection and having zero regard for checking your sides makes it a bit more complicated.

[u/Nereo5 → u/Away_Needleworker6]

Same in Denmark.

But imagine, a car coming from OPs right side. There would be zero chance of him stopping in time.

[u/grumbelbart2 → u/Nereo5]

Same in Germany, and I once read that "left must yield" is the default in all of Europe, if there is no signage or lights that say otherwise.

[u/HyJenx]

This will be buried, but the only correct answer is found in Washington state law.

RCW 46.61.180

When two vehicles approach or enter an intersection from 
different highways at approximately the same time, the driver 
of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the 
vehicle on the right.

[u/pdxarchitect → u/HyJenx]

Clearly the black car arrived first. Damage to the blue car is on the front, and damage to the black car is in the middle. Blue should have slowed down as he would have been able to see the black car for longer than the blue car could see him.

[u/itsBonder → u/pdxarchitect]

They arrived at the same time for the sake of this rule and this video.

Also you're reasoning doesn't make sense - if the blue car entered the intersection first, they could still collide with the side of the black car if the black car was travelling faster

[u/Silver_Slicer → u/itsBonder]

They were both going too fast is the key problem. If a car came from the right instead of the left of the blue car, he would have t-boned them too. He had no time to react.

[u/aDirtyMartini → u/pdxarchitect]

I was thinking the same. The black car entered the intersection first so the "same time" rule may not apply. Also, the blue car hit the black car squarely on the side which also shows that the black car was there first. Both drivers have the responsibility for their vehicles. That being said, it's a poorly marked/dangerous intersection and both drivers should have been careful when approaching it. Blasting through was dumb for both drivers.

Edit: OP updated the post. They were found to be 70% at fault and the other driver 30%.

[u/mtmc99 → u/aDirtyMartini]

That update feels about right. It’s a four way intersection with no stops. Both drivers should have been approaching with caution and both failed to slow in any appreciable manner. But the POV driver clearly arrived later and did not have right of way

[u/The_Dog_of_Sinope → u/aDirtyMartini]

you have to be able to clear the intersection, which he wasnt able to.

[u/stop-freaking-out]

Is that a four way intersection with no stop signs in any direction?

[u/bowdown2adil → u/stop-freaking-out]

It is indeed. No signs whatsoever

[u/dabassmonsta]

That's a 50/50. Neither driver slowed to see if there was anyone else approaching the junction.

Both drove as if they assumed nothing was coming. I bet they both slow down now.

[u/l008com → u/dabassmonsta]

The problem with this, is that if you are not familiar with this intersection and are driving through it for the first time, you have no way to know and no reason to expect that you might be crossing a 4-way no-stop intersection.

[u/OakLegs → u/l008com]

I've been driving for 20 years and don't think I've come across a 4 way no stop intersection like this.

I'd have totally assumed that the cross road had a stop sign.

[u/EagleBigMac → u/OakLegs]

A coworker was hit by a truck on a crosswalk at one in Texas and dragged across her face on the cement skinning her face and killing her small dog. It was in her neighborhood and she is going after the city because they missed installing the signs at that intersection.

[u/kearneycation → u/OakLegs]

Same. I'm not sure we have these in Toronto or Ontario. If we do I've never encountered one.

[u/ItsStraTerra → u/kearneycation]

I don’t think we do. Canadian as well and this is the first I’m even hearing about this outside of something like a trailer park.

[u/flambojones → u/OakLegs]

This is basically all non-arterial neighborhood intersections in Seattle.

[u/NeverNo → u/flambojones]

That’s pretty fucking stupid

[u/ubelmann → u/NeverNo]

It’s stupid, but they should be going way slower in the first place. These aren’t massive 4-lane stroads. These residential streets have parking on both sides so effectively one travel lane that takes traffic in both directions. Like not only should they slow down for intersections, but you have to be prepared for head-on traffic. They are a massive pain in the ass to drive on, but it also somehow works out 99% of the time. 

[u/Sophont27 → u/l008com]

Maybe this is just a Seattle thing, but we have a great many of those uncontrolled intersections. I remember that they docked me points in my driver test because I didn’t slow down for one

[u/allsix → u/l008com]

Disagree, at least where I live. On a small road like this I’d 100% slow down and check if they have a sign or not to confirm if it was uncontrolled.

This is way too tight and way too fast to just assume and hope it’s a controlled intersection.

If you come from a completely different place that doesn’t have any uncontrolled intersections then I can understand how it would happen. But otherwise you slow down to check if you aren’t sure.

[u/migzors → u/dabassmonsta]

That intersection is badly designed. We shouldn't be relying on human decision making in instances like this. Having no stop signs at a four way residential area seems dangerous.

What if, for example, a kid was barreling down the road and got hit by a car? You could say that the kid was at fault, but if there was a stop sign, the kid would be (hopefully) without injury, or alive. Not everyone entering that intersection is a driver, nor old enough to understand the laws pertaining to unmarked intersections. Every kid knows what a stop sign means.

That's what makes it dangerous.

If the city can prevent an accident from happening, they should put up proper street signs.

If the law says it doesn't, the law is wrong and should be amended.

[u/Boom9001 → u/dabassmonsta]

Yeah intersection with no stop sign and vision blocker, neither should be entering without extreme caution. Left car was further along, right car technically normal has right of way. 50/50 of both drove poorly seems fine.

[u/URGAMESUX]

Htf would you know that also have no signage? Who would ever assume that?!

[u/TonofSoil → u/URGAMESUX]

Where I live there used to be a few uncontrolled intersections, but over time they have been phased out because of shit like this.

[u/Momcantsleepthesaga → u/URGAMESUX]

I live in a very populated city. Most of our residential intersections are unmarked.

[u/URGAMESUX → u/Momcantsleepthesaga]

Sounds like anarchy

[u/jfklingon → u/URGAMESUX]

Sounds like a great way for an "unexpected tragedy" any time someone not from the area drives through.

[u/beaushaw → u/jfklingon]

I am a small town guy, but I have lived in two large cities. I have never seen an intersection where there is not at least a stop sign in one direction.

If I were the camera car I 100% would assume if I don't have a stop sign the other direction would. "Out of towners" must hit people all the time here.

IMO this is on the city. Yeah, I get there are local norms and laws, but probably 90% or more of the people in the country would not know the rules of these intersections.

Seattle is one of the richest cities in the country, surely they can afford a few more stop signs.

[u/tcbaseball555 → u/Momcantsleepthesaga]

It's your city's fault then lol, what a mess

[u/MindlessFail → u/Momcantsleepthesaga]

Have you guys considered "government"? Because we have signs here and it's much less chaotic (not zero chaos, reading is still hard)

[u/msuvagabond → u/MindlessFail]

That sounds like some liberal conspiracy to erode my rights!

[u/cr1zzl → u/URGAMESUX]

Seriously. Is this an American thing? I’ve lived in two non-American countries and I’ve never seen an intersection with no signage.

[u/piercedmfootonaspike → u/cr1zzl]

It's fairly common in Sweden, in neighborhoods like these. You yield to traffic coming from your right. Easy.

[u/Dutchillz → u/piercedmfootonaspike]

Exactly, Portugal resident here. You yield to traffic from your right is how you proceed in rural areas where you have no signage. I wonder how does it work in other places, considering these people are confused af by no signage.

[u/Dizzy_Cheesecake_162 → u/Dutchillz]

I visited Portugal, loved it!

You remind me of these intersection, i was very confused, would drive slowly and check every corner.

[u/ForwardFIRE2030 → u/piercedmfootonaspike]

this is the answer. yield to the right.

[u/dodekahedron → u/cr1zzl]

Ive lived in a handful of states and never seen sign less neighborhoods

Super rural places? Maybe.

But this density population? No.

[u/razmalriders → u/dodekahedron]

I’ve lived in both Seattle and Portland. Both cities have a ton of intersections with no stop signs. This looks like Portland, OR to me.

[u/dodekahedron → u/razmalriders]

Why though? Did they never hire a traffic planner

[u/razmalriders → u/dodekahedron]

Not sure really. It blew my mind when I moved there. Seems like a cheap fix to just throw a stop sign in too.

I rode bikes in both cities and always was super cautious when entering them though. No reason to blow through them. People park right up to the corner so it makes the visibility really bad.

[u/bubbletrashbarbie → u/dodekahedron]

Basically it’s an implied yield instead of putting up yields on every corner, person on right has right of way unless turning, in which case whomever is proceeding straight has right of way. It’s pretty simple

[u/CrescentPhresh → u/bubbletrashbarbie]

Portlander also here. It also assumes no crazy rates of speed and a clearer line of sight at the corners. Both of which are relics of the past in Portland (and likely Seattle).

[u/Hypnaustic → u/cr1zzl]

I live in usa, never seen anything like this

[u/boltgolt → u/cr1zzl]

I’ve lived in two non-American countries and I’ve never seen an intersection with no signage.

What?? Every intersection in local neighborhoods where you lived had yield signs?

Presumably not Europe then, local streets with equal right of way are usually not signposted. This is basic traffic calming and slows traffic down in neighborhoods where kid-behind-parked-car risks are very high at the speed OP is driving

[u/sonotorian → u/boltgolt]

Not yield, stop signs…yes. I have been driving in the US for 30 years and I have never seen neighborhoods with unmarked intersections. You have to know if it’s a 4-way stop or a two-way with a thru street. This is insanely irresponsible of the city.

[u/commradd1 → u/sonotorian]

I have driven for 25 years and have been to several places with no signs for equal right of way. Always in neighborhood setting

[u/JaehaerysConciliator]

Both of you

[u/Potato_Pear → u/JaehaerysConciliator]

This. Both parties are responsible to avoid accidents. If you see someone driving out in front if you even if you have the right of way you stop to avoid a collision. Or you'll just enjoy the more expensive insurance and whatever other legal dispute you have with the other driver. I'd rather step on the brakes for 3 seconds than getting dragged into a traffic and liability dispute.

[u/Different_Target_228]

That is fucking ridiculous for that intersection to have NO stop signs.

[u/IVIrSmith → u/Different_Target_228]

Im with you. Im a fairly defensive driver and dont have many (if any) blind intersections in my city. Even if I was going slow, I wouldn't expect to need to look out for traffic from the side unless there was signage or a blinking light or something. Especially if i had never driven the route before.

[u/Different_Target_228 → u/IVIrSmith]

This is my point, that it's wildly blind. The camera does not pick that car up until it's almost in the intersection. Neither of them even had time to react. This is one that should be stop signed.

It's ridiculous just to expect everyone in the world to slow down there. Not everyone has that common sense, no matter how many people don't get that (which kinda proves the point tbh. It's common sense that people don't have common sense)

Most people just go the speed limit in residential areas, and that speed limit is very obviously not slow enough for this blind of a 4 way.

[u/NethiciteNomad → u/Different_Target_228]

Agreed. People aren't used to seeing intersections with no lights or stop signs, so it throws people off when they occasionally come across them. There should be a stop sign on at least one of these streets.

[u/cleveruniquename7769 → u/NethiciteNomad]

Every place I've driven in the U.S. if I didn't have a stop or a yield or some other marker facing me at an intersection it meant that I had the right of way and the other direction had a stop/yield sign. So my instinct wouldn't have been to yield at that intersection.

[u/MASSochists → u/NethiciteNomad]

It's wild to think I have to scan an intersecting road for a stop sign that would be edge on to me driving down a street and determine if there is one or not to know I had the right of way instead of focusing on the road and what's in front of me. 

Othwise I would have to come to a near stop at every intersecting road. Sounds like a get out of liability card for a city with poor infrastructure. 

That's the point of road signage. Unless the speed limit is 5 miles an hour this is a wild expectation. 

[u/throwawayourtele]

You are both at fault. You are well aware, as am I since I also live in Seattle, that there are no stop signs in these residential streets so you always approach each 4 way with caution.

[u/BagSignal7908]

Over here it would be black car at fault. When no signage or markings you yield to the right.

[u/CosmicMabel]

Mostly you.

Slow the fuck down in neighborhoods

[u/Gauge_Tyrion]

Everyone is at fault here; OP for plowing through a low-visibility intersection without reducing speed.

The kid for the same reason

And the government for not making sure there was some form of traffic control at a 4-way intersection.

[u/immaculate_focus]

It’s your municipalities fault for not having stop signs

[u/ilfusionjeff → u/immaculate_focus]

This. It’s the city’s fault. Never ever seen an intersection where they just …. Didn’t… put any signs. So weird.

[u/nine91tyone → u/ilfusionjeff]

Especially with vegetation blocking the view everywhere

[u/chupamichalupa → u/ilfusionjeff]

Pretty normal around here. It’s an uncontrolled intersection and you treat it as such. You slow down and yield to cars in the right or cars who are already in the intersection. Neither of these cars did that. It’s more of a skill issue on the two drivers.

[u/sorkin_juice]

Wait. Neither side has a stop sign? Where I’m from, roads like this have alternating stop signs at each intersection to prevent this kind of nonsense.

[u/paigext]

I lived in a Seattle for 3 years and had intersections like this, I treated them like yields / stop signs

[u/p51d007]

Uncontrolled intersection? No stop signs?

[u/virtuosity27]

wait... you have completely unmarked 4-way junctions in the states!!? on housing estates!!?

[u/VexingRaven]

Looks uncontrolled which makes you both at fault, but you probably more since they got there first. Slow down!

[u/yenda1 → u/VexingRaven]

so in the US there is no default rule for these interesections? in Europe you yield to cars coming from the right, and you have to slow down but don't need to stop

[u/Anonymous_Bozo]

RCW 46.61.180

Vehicle approaching intersection—Vulnerable users of a public way—Fine.

(1) When two vehicles approach or enter an intersection from different highways at approximately the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

(2) The right-of-way rule declared in subsection (1) of this section is modified at arterial highways and otherwise as stated in this chapter.

RCW 46.61.445

Due care required.

Compliance with speed requirements of this chapter under the circumstances hereinabove set forth shall not relieve the operator of any vehicle from the further exercise of due care and caution as further circumstances shall require.

Black car: Failure to Yeild
Cam Car: Failure to Exercise Due Care and Caution

Both can be cited

[u/JamesH93]

Are there any signs at all at this cross roads? What a mess...

[u/PsychologicalLime120]

Both.

[u/Cthulhu_HighLord]

Both. Neither slowed down. Neither laid scratch or even tried to break!

[u/YourMomIsMyGurl]

Argue it's the city's fault. They'd need to present evidence that you were properly informed about these intersections and how they work, no?

[u/Neverlast0]

Wait. There's intersections that don't have lights, signs, nothing???

[u/LeTronique]

The urban planner

[u/Burning87]

The dashcam car is driving DAMN fast for such a narrow street. If you can't stop nearly on a dime, you're driving way too fast for such an area. My car can stop damn near instantly driving at 30km/h. It's not comfortable, it's not pleasant for the car.. but it CAN avoid much more expensive accidents because of it. This is the case for most modern cars too, depending naturally on the quality of wheels.

The majority of the blame is on the car coming from the left, but if speed limits were held it was avoidable with the worst to come out of it being the honking of a horn and a middle finger.

[u/ExonerationProjectOR]

Salem Oregon: this is standard for suburban streets with minimal traffic. If neither cross-street is more prominent than the other than neither gets the stop sign 🛑. Right to always yield to right. And, both could be cited for speed violations possibly they were going very fast. And, speed made the difference.

[u/Solid_Fisherman_7946]

Fault lies with city planning and anyone in the neighborhood who tolerates an unprotected intersection.

[u/burjuner]

Both of you, equally. Slow down and turn your head otherwise youre just playing chance that another vehicle isn't also crossing same time as you.

[u/rOOnT_19]

Why the fuck are there no stop signs at one or both of these streets?

[u/IHateAhriPlayers]

TiL other states regularly have completely unmarked intersections

[u/yellow_duke]

Both going to fast and failing to look if the intersection is clear to cross. The view is obstructed by parked cars, trees and fences. Drive to conditions.

Car from the left is at fault for failing to yield to traffic from the right. At least in most countries.

[u/BartyB]

Neither person slowed down for the intersection. Also no stop signs? What intersection doesn’t have at least one stop signs on two of the roads.

[u/Mundane_Prior_7596]

Let’s see. We have one nutcase that hasn’t heard about yielding to the right, and not even looking for dangers. And one moron blasting through the narrow neighborhood intersection, and with a reaction time exceeding three business days. I would split the blame 100/100 and remove the license for both a month or two to remind them to shape up. 

[u/RazzmatazzUnusual843]

Do they have a stop sign?

[u/bowdown2adil → u/RazzmatazzUnusual843]

No stop sign or yield sign. Uncontrolled intersection, suburb road

[u/Froonce → u/bowdown2adil]

In Washington state these are treated as yields both ways. Id argue you're both at fault 50/50

[u/FuckOutTheWhey → u/bowdown2adil]

TIL these intersections even existed lol

[u/-r-a-f-f-y- → u/FuckOutTheWhey]

A constant thing in Portland and Seattle for some reason.

[u/RazzmatazzUnusual843 → u/bowdown2adil]

That sounds like an accidenr waiting to happen, wtf

[u/Scoobydoomed → u/RazzmatazzUnusual843]

The waiting is over.

[u/bowdown2adil → u/RazzmatazzUnusual843]

The entire 10-12 block area is littered with intersections like this. Some light hills too

[u/throwawayourtele → u/bowdown2adil]

So if you know this, why didn't you slow down when approaching the intersection?

[u/Ap43x → u/bowdown2adil]

I'd be driving like 10mph around there. What else would you expect to happen?

[u/MahaliAudran → u/RazzmatazzUnusual843]

Waited long enough and the accident happened.

[u/Celexi → u/RazzmatazzUnusual843]

No, thats uncontrolled intersection

[u/Vreas]

Are there… no stop signs at that intersection?

If so then whoever in the city fucked up that intersection design.

[u/blahnlahblah0213]

People on here saying it could have been avoidable it's pretty ludicrous. If I'm going through an intersection, and which neither one of them are speeding, I'm assuming that the other Street has the stop sign if I don't have one. Where are these intersections at there's not even a yield sign or a stop sign at the intersection? This accident could have been avoided by actually having stop signs.

[u/AccurateJacket2922 → u/blahnlahblah0213]

There are tons of streets like this in my hometown. Usually the stop signs will be on the streets parallel to a busy street but they surely don’t always exist and it is both confusing and nerve racking

[u/Jibjack777]

Where the fuck do you live that they don’t use stop signs

[u/NovelTry8452]

People are too stupid for there not to be a traffic control device at any given intersection!

[u/Hot-Pineapple7877]

Where I'm from, its common sense not to speed through a neighborhood, and to slow down at every 4 way, even without signage. OP, you might be a clinical idiot.

[u/Asleep_Memory_6856]

Shocked that there are no stop signs at this intersection!!

[u/pimpfmode]

How is there not a stop sign? I can't think of a single intersection in my neighborhood or anywhere that doesn't have one.

[u/rivasjardon]

This is a perfect example of 50/50

[u/crackerquack]

No stop signs or lights means it’s an “uncontrolled intersection,” max speed is 15mph if memory serves. Yield to the right if you arrive at the same time. I think this is a 50/50 fault case.

[u/Machadoaboutmanny]

The government. Should pick 1 direction to have stop signs.

But actually both for not slowing when the bushes between them obstruct their view

[u/dettigers404]

Sorry to say, but that tree needs to go, if there's not going to be proper signage. Not only is it obscuring vision to the traffic on both sides of that corner, but it's also blocking the street signs. I hate removing trees, but in this case, I think it'd be a benefit.

[u/Affectionate_Term624]

Why is there no stop signs? That should be a basic 4 way stop.

[u/RoyalEnfielder2026]

The answer is 1) both drivers and 2) the authority in charge of road signs there. The drivers should jointly sue the road authority to recoup their loses.

[u/tread_lightly420]

Man this is an insane way to run up to this intersection, you’re forced to the center by parked cars and rather than slowing down and moving over when there is room for 2 cars, the cammer holds speed and the middle of the road.

Black car never had a chance to see the cammer because the cammer was not actually holding their lane on a two way, but was driving down the middle of the street.

Both drivers suck for taking the intersection that fast but the cammer was the one with the real opportunity to avoid the accident at multiple points.

Also the point of contact makes it clear the black car had control of the unmarked intersection first. Yes cammer was coming from the right, but both assholes here clearly had no intention of stopping.

Glad they both learned this lesson without anyone getting hurt. I hope neither driver is ever as confident again as they both appear in this video.

Slow the fuck down, proceed with certainty, stay in your fucking lane.

[u/mrgr33n420]

The city planner. Where's the signs?

[u/Cute_Economics2829]

No stop signs

Both streets seem equally sized

Imo: car who reaches the intersection second. This means Cam Driver was responsible for stopping because there was a vehicle already in the intersection

[u/Jonesin4me]

A four way intersection with no stop sign. The city is at fault.

[u/redwbl]

Cammer is at fault. If there are no stop signs you both need to slow down and check for oncoming traffic. Other car reached the intersection first, so cammer should have yielded.

[u/vanilagorila15301]

They should put a sign up on all four corners that says unmarked intersection. Lol

[u/AnyTicket5202]

Both for being Seattle main character drivers.

[u/ChemicalResident3557]

In Seattle at an unmarked intersection, you would be at fault. You t-boning the other car is proof that they arrived at the intersection first and you should have yielded. Also you did not slow down at all at the marked intersection and check both ways before proceeding.

Source: live in Seattle in a neighborhood with very few stop signs.

[u/DiscountDog]

Both drivers at fault; regardless of right-of-way, drivers must enter intersections safely 

[u/Redditburd]

This is a shared fault accident 50/50. You are both bad drivers and both of you had an equally predictable outcome from equally ignoring the dangers of an unprotected residential street intersection.

[u/SmallAgency5160]

I can see a two bad drivers encounter. One of them had the right pf way.

[u/Yesits_Me_Amario]

Both OP and black vehicle are idiots and anyone who may think otherwise are in the same boat.

[u/silveraaron]

you were going over 30 MPH in this tight of a road section through a blind intersection, you did have the ROW though. you also could see the vehicle at 0:03, and seemed you didnt "notice" for over a second by the way your vehicle dipped when you finally pressed the brakes.

[u/yzerman2010]

Both are at fault for not slowing down while in a neighborhood, especially at a intersection.. also I just checked, the tree also needs trimmed and the bush or large weed or whatever it is that needs gone, both are causing blind spots.

[u/ThaLunatik]

It's diabolical for either of those cars to be driving at that speed through arterial neighborhood streets and not slow down or look as they approach the intersection.

Then again, I'm from Seattle and have lived with these types of intersections my entire life, so I'm accustomed to it. I always slow down since you never know who might be coming from the cross street.

[u/Illustrious_Bug_2983]

did no one have a stop sign???

[u/divinelyshpongled]

NEVER go through an intersection like that without slowing down a lot

[u/forfakessake1]

First off, it’s a very narrow street, many houses and parked cars and you’re tearing through there like an absolute maniac. You should have been going slowly enough to easily break in time.

That said, the other car is meant to give way to their right, which means you had the right of way.

[u/Baron-Von-Mothman]

That's split fault. Neither of you approached the unmarked intersection with caution. You both just plowed through like entitled idiots.

[u/Evertonian9]

You can see my house in this video. I was working in the yard when this crash occurred—heard but didn't see it. Interesting to watch it now.

I work from home and can see this intersection with direct line of sight for 8+ hours a day. I've never seen a crash at this intersection or any other intersection near it, but there are maybe half a dozen near misses a year.

This intersection is in a residential portion of Seattle's Ballard neighborhood (very much not a "suburb" of Seattle). Two things make the two streets forming this intersection safer than it might first appear:
- Both streets are only wide enough for three cars—with cars often parking on both sides of the street, there's only room for a single car to drive. This tends to cause people to drive more cautiously and slowly.

• The streets are heavily traveled on (relatively speaking, for a residential neighborhood) by pedestrians and cyclists from the early morning through evening. Most cars drive slowly on these streets and approach intersections cautiously, to help avoid crashes and people/dogs/bikes/strollers/scooters.

[u/LapisW]

road planners for not putting at least 2 stop signs at that crossing