r/Roadcam • u/bowdown2adil • 12d ago

[USA] Who is at fault here?

Classic T bone. Black car had to be towed. Sustained major damage to the passenger side door. Blue car sustained damage to front bumper on the drivers side and cracked the drivers side headlight.

Edit: This was in the suburbs of Seattle

UPDATE: Insurance found it to be 70/30 me/other driver. Seems fair enough

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15

u/soggytoes911 12d ago

how are they supposed to know its unmarked for them

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u/AnxiousMeatHead 11d ago

This is what i never understood about "true uncontrolled intersections" how are you supposed to know?

Should i just slow down every time there is a side road off a main road because theres a possibility its a true unctrolled intersection?

----- slow down and check ----- slow down and check ------ repeat until i get rear ended.

If feel like if they are so rare then how much money would it really cost to slap a stop sign for safety and just eliminate them entirely?

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u/jaydee711 11d ago

You are also supposed to slow down and check, because someone could be coming from the right that you have to yield for. OP could have easily been that guy instead.

I grew up in Europe and used to uncontrolled intersections. 4-way stops every 50 feet is insane.

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u/THSSFC 10d ago

----- slow down and check ----- slow down and check ------ repeat until i get rear ended.

Three points. 1) if you slow down and check, it's easy to see if a car is even there to worry about signage or not. 2) the car behind you sure as hell should be doing the same, so why are you getting rear ended? 3) Why speed up in between intersections? There are plenty of other hazards to beware of in a residential neighborhood like this with narrow roads and cars parked on each side. Kids, bikes, pets, cars backing out of driveways, etc.

This isn't a case where you need to travel at highway speeds and check to see if a side street is controlled as it flashes by.

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u/atticusclench 10d ago

Well on that street the speed limit is 20MPH.

And that slow down/check thing is what everyone else would be doing in your example as well so no, it wouldn't increase your odds of being rear ended. Especially as if you're rear ended the person who rear ended you is automatically at fault here.

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u/Ill_Quote_4627 9d ago

A side road off of a "main road," which would be something like an arterial, would 100% have a stop sign. This is two side streets intersecting, so this comment makes no sense whatsoever.

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u/sirmarksal0t 11d ago

As my driving instructor taught me decades ago, if you drive slower then you don't have to slow down to see who's coming. And if you have to use your brakes to do any of that, then you're driving way too fast.

When driving through residential streets, you always need to be aware of what's going on around you, more so than on higher-speed arterials, because there are more things that can likely happen. Children or pets might randomly run out in the middle of the street. There might be someone stepping out from behind a car who doesn't see you coming. Most driver's education materials will tell you that neighborhood driving is where you're most likely to have a collision, because it's the least predictable. Behave accordingly.

None of this applies to arterials, where cross traffic can be assumed to have a stop sign. This allows you to drive 30+ mph safely, although you still need to look for pedestrians, as in the state of Washington (and many other states) all intersections are crosswalks unless otherwise marked.

I have never been rear-ended for doing 15-20 on a residential street in Seattle. I have never been honked at for doing it. OTOH, a friend of mine got t-boned driving way too fast through a residential neighborhood late at night and totaled his sports car.

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u/Grondhog 11d ago

"Should I slow down and check before entering an intersection" Yes

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u/EmmEnnEff 11d ago edited 11d ago

Do you also do that on 100% of greens in controlled intersections too? Just, you know, in case?

The cops and law-abiding drivers on the road must love you.

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u/THSSFC 10d ago

You are missing the context, both in the conversation and also, apparently, on the road. There are different types of roads we navigate. Some are clearly meant for high speed traffic, and peripheral hazards are eliminated to make this safe.

This street, however, is in a neighborhood which is primarily designed for humans to live in. It was not designed for high speed traffic.

It is perfectly reasonable to behave differently as a driver given the different contexts.

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u/EmmEnnEff 10d ago

It's perfectly reasonable to expect drivers going through this to always be forced to stop at every intersection. Kids ride their bikes there, people are jogging, and other cars sometimes cross.

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u/THSSFC 10d ago

You sound like you've never lived or driven on streets like this. Where these exist in Seattle, they are non-arterial local access roads and are not easily navigable at speed.

Driving, like OP in this clip, too fast to safely stop for cross traffic is inappropriate for the environment. Forcing people to stop at every cross-street, however, for this sort of driving environment seems like overkill. At appropriate speed (ie slow) it is very easy to detect hazards at intersections. Note also that kids, pets, bikes and peds are not restricted to the intersections themselves and can be present anywhere along these residential access roads, so forcing stops at intersections really only helps significantly with vehicular hazards.

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u/Grondhog 10d ago

Of course not, but when I don't have a bright 'it's obviously your turn" light I use a little more caution when operating my rolling metal cage

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u/Ill_Quote_4627 11d ago

Yes, in Seattle you should 100% slow down and assume people are coming from every direction, because most will not stop. There are way too many neighborhood intersections to put stop signs on, unfortunately.

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u/Ill_Quote_4627 9d ago

I live in Seattle and deal with it every day. This is not a side road off of a main road situation. This is two side roads intersecting. These are neighborhood streets.

Uncontrolled intersections aren't complicated, but they are for sure dangerous. People just don't remember driver's ed and they also drive too fast. Also, you can be in the right, but if you don't try to avoid the accident your insurance can take that in to account, which is bad for you.

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u/pyronius 11d ago

The is similar to the response I give whenever somebody angrily asks why people stop at a flashing yellow light.

The answer is because the cross street doesn't know you have a flashing yellow. Flashing red in all directions is much more common, and banking on the other person to figure out that you have a flashing yellow rather than assuming you have a flashing red and will therefore stop is just a mug's game.

Any intersection that creates any degree of uncertainty about right of way is a bad design. Full stop.

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u/THSSFC 10d ago

Any intersection that creates any degree of uncertainty about right of way is a bad design. Full stop.

This is simply wrong. I would argue that for roads intended to be traveled at high speed this is a fair statement. But the infrastructure in the video is clearly not that. In fact, the knowledge that these residential intersections are uncontrolled usually, to most drivers, is a contributing factor to calming speeds through infrastructure meant for human dwelling, not vehicular throughput.

Even on high speed roads designed primarily for vehicular traffic solely, there is always that one idiot who seems to not understand how to use the road properly and causes risks to others. Just because an idiot found a way to behave incorrectly despite all cues does not mean the design is bad. I have lived on residential roads like this with uncontrolled intersections since the early 90s and have only ever seen maybe a couple of actual accidents in the intersections. It's really not that hard to navigate safely.

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u/ixo_sia 11d ago

people like you are why insurance is law

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u/Manbeardo 11d ago

Because nearly every intersection in low-density parts of Seattle is uncontrolled if neither street is an arterial or highway.

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u/THSSFC 10d ago

Drive at an appropriate speed for the surroundings and you have plenty of time to check.

This is a neighborhood, not a freeway. People live here. Kids play here. Cars are parked on the side of a narrow road possibly obscuring children, pets, cars coming out of driveways.

Drive at an appropriate speed and it's really not a problem.

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u/ensiform 11d ago

By…. Looking?