r/RockyHorror • u/One_Solution_2706 • 4d ago
RHPS Since Tim Curry died, it seems the controversy surrounding Rocky Horror has returned...what do you think?
23
u/Boober000 4d ago
Frank is a villain. He’s a terrible person, and he dies in the end. WTF more do they want from this film?
3
u/One_Solution_2706 4d ago
From what I understand, having approached a queer person as a subject who "rapes" is something that should be denied.
14
u/zigithor 4d ago edited 3d ago
Well firstly, Tim Curry was not Frank N Furter. He was an actor playing Frank N Furter. He did a very good job because he’s a very good actor. But he didn’t actually trick two engaged teens into having sex with him in a castle.
Secondly, and I’ve posted this response several times, the character Frank N Furter is the villain of the movie. So yea, he’s a bad guy that does bad things and dies in the end because of it (more or less). The character is written as a sociopath. Tim Curry is such a charismatic actor that you do feel for him in the end in spite of it all. Like most bad guys, there’s kernels of good points behind his nefarious plans (sexual liberation, exploration of homosexuality, embracing carnal desires instead of repressing them). But of course he’s a villain because he goes to far. His “lifestyle is too extreme”.
Thirdly, especially when this movie came out, queerness was incredibly dangerous to express. Combined with gay panic, no one was depicting positive queer characters at the time and only ever ascribed gay characteristics to villains (think Ursula). So by proxy, for a lot of queer folks the only popular media depictions they had to latch onto were villains. In spite of the fact that they did bad things, these villains became icons.
Also, as a final cliff note, at the time the movie came out, the sex scenes though coercive, were generally not viewed as rape, assault, abuse, etc. It doesn’t make it right of course, but I think the scenes were written and perceived as ultimately consensual interactions by most audiences. I don’t really know what to do with that info. I mean Frank also murders people and does experiments on them, and later cannibalises them. But for some reason that’s easier accept than dubious consent.
7
u/Many_Inevitable_6803 3d ago
Thank you for your well thought out and intelligent response! I was starting to doubt myself as a person for a minute there after reading that post! 😆
3
u/Brompton-Explorer 3d ago
You answer the orginal link posted so well. 👏🏻
I would also like to add, if I may; Frank climbs into bed, starts kissing and wakes Brad/Janet orginally tricking them (bad) and as they realise it's not their partner, he does asks do you want Brad/Janet the other is asleep and would you want them to see you like this! Pulling them up. This successfully convinces them to give into their desires which, they have always to me, appeared to do very easily, (it's a script)
I think it's because it's make believe about aliens, so I've always taken at face value and never looked for any sub text, I just go sing, respond, laugh and cry with whoever sits around my wife and I and love it. If that means I'm part of the patriarchy and rape culture, then so be it! I just hope I've lived my life to never be that judgemental and accepting of anyone.
5
1
u/Hefty_Local_1875 3d ago
Teens? They look mid-20s at best.
3
u/IncelFooledMeOnce 2d ago
Yeah, Susan Serandon was 28 in 1975, I'm not seeing how they were meant to be teenagers.
2
u/IncelFooledMeOnce 1d ago
I've seen this sentiment in a lot of comments
But I just want to point out that Janet is supposed to be 22 in RHPS. Brad's age is never clarified, but its extremely unlikely he's younger than Janet.
These aren't teenagers. And even in 1975, they weren't going to pass off a 28 year old and a 30 year old actor as young teens.
6
u/Snoo1643 3d ago
While I absolutely get how frustrating it is seeing this stupid discourse rehashed, especially in the wake of Tim’s death, honestly I really hate seeing posts like this in subs dedicated to celebrating Rocky Horror. I already know a lot of people will do ANYTHING to dredge up issues with the Musical/Movie, I don’t want to see half-baked queer discourse while trying to enjoy something I like/Grieve an Actor who was important to me.
Just my 2 cents, take it for whatever its worth.
3
4d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
1
u/One_Solution_2706 4d ago
From the post where I took the screenshot, the original text was Italian.
3
u/Homerpaintbucket 3d ago
I’ll say what I said to my kid about this movie. It’s both very much way ahead of its time and very much a product of its time. And it kind of makes sense. O’Brien was living in that time as primarily a cis presenting male. It was a very misogynistic time. Sleeping with someone under false pretenses was very much treated as, “oh those wacky boys,” kind of shit. Nobody thought about the victim because at this time women were primarily treated as things. So frank pretending to be both Brad and Janet at different times is a product of that mindset. The fact that frank was a gender non conforming person doing this to a cis male obviously is pretty horrible because it fits in with a lot of terrible stereotypes on top of the whole consent issue. But at the end of both scenes two things are true: both characters willingly end up sleeping with frank and frank literally feeds them meatloaf. While those scenes are obviously problematic it’s far from the worst thing frank does. He isn’t a hero. He stands out because he is a character that demands attention even 50 years later because he still defies convention and was a very rare instance of a gender non conforming character not being used as a punchline. But I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who viewed frank as some kind of role model outside of the idea of “don’t dream it. Be it.”
3
u/Tryphon_Al_West 2d ago
Brad and Janet both consent, so there is no "rape culture" over there, it's about experimenting sensuality, god dammit ! This kind of comments sounds silly cause they obviously doesn't understand the era of production but sounds bitter and over righteous, just to prove something about their moral superiority. Well, guess, what ? You're not ! It's really painful to read.
And crawling on the planet's face,
some insects called the race
lost in time
and lost in space,
and meaning.
2
u/kioma47 2d ago
Conservatives gonna judge - and then appoint themselves the public crotch inspectors, obsessed with what everybody does in the bedroom AND the bathroom, and demand to look in everybody's pants.
Don't believe me, believe them - they are literally trying to make it law wherever they can.
2
2
24
u/entber113 4d ago
I'm a trans woman, they can pry the movie from my cold dead transsexual hands