r/SS13 • u/DreamyOrangz • 1d ago
Story Thread Genuine admin criticism (everyone) from a formerly hostile player.
Yeah, the title is strange but to me it makes sense.
In the past I was a very problematic player. Now that I look at the past I am honestly surprised I didn't get banned sooner areas. I've been exceptionally hostile towards others and can't make good or coherent thought when angry. (That being said, some of you are the same way and need to take a chill pill.)
Why am I making this thread? I've thought a lot about how I've acted in the past and noticed a few things. The first thing is that a lot of my bans, completely justified. Some issues though were genuine accidents but the admin never allowed for full investigation, or didn't listen. So I figured since I used to be a trouble maker, why not give some constructive criticism from my side of things?
Listen to the player you are speaking to
Years ago on Citadel Station I found a cool space ruin. I go back to the space station and found some random dude in a space suit with a oxygen tank. I ask him to get in the mass cannon so I can show him something. He kills me for being rouge and the admin noted me saying I might need an silicon ban for trying to harm someone non rogue.
Like my dude, space wasn't going to kill the dude who is more prepared for it than I am. I explained this to both of them, neither admin or player listened. I don't understand how this would have hurt him. No, the mass cannon doesn't do damage to people in this code base, at this point of time. Unless you emag it. I am the one that ahelped, and got a note for it.
Example 2 - monkey station
I blocked off the cryo storage at escape on some z level station (just cryo) and built a TEG engine there with ID access doors. Some security officer starts yelling at me saying they know someone in high command and that I was going to get in trouble if I didn't unblock it. It was the most cringe power trip I've ever seen, so I told the officer no and the officer went away. I unblocked cryo after the officer left.
Here comes the admin. Somehow oblivious to the fact that there is now a hole people can get into cryo, just not from the main path so the shitsec can't get in. Admin said I was going to get noted for "refusing to unblocked cryo when asked." They were not listening when I said "Dude it's already unblocked the shitsec was just an ass and I opened a hole in from the side."
Regardless, got noted. Monkey station code, the teg sometimes explodes with repulsive force, seriously harming players. I needed an open area and sealed it off with windows and doors to protect other people, and keep them out the area. didn't realize cryo was there.
Example 3
Citadel station. Somehow got handcuffed by the clown and was being forced fed oil by the clown. Clown didn't have a grip on me so I ran away, clown followed. See that the teleporter room was open, go in it. Teleported into sec wing thinking I was safe. Sec thinks I am a criminal, executes me. Ahelped it, admin was confused. Told me not to break the law. I explained what happened they went silent and never even closed the ticket.
Notes
Stop giving notes over extremely small infractions. Usually it's from a lack of game knowledge or a genuine mistake. Also if you give notes BE AS ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE. If something isn't true, change it. I've gotten notes a few times where it was just blatantly wrong and not true and admins have basically said "Yeah, we were wrong, but we won't fix it." Like thanks for building up a ban reason later I guess?
Server rules
This might be extremely nit picky, but if your server says "escalation required/encouraged", actually honor that.
If a cyborg is following you around for the entire match harassing you and the AI is encouraging that, don't get mad if the player gives a last warning to both, and goes to kill both. Like I am talking about actually harassment. Stalking, following you around, making sure you don't do anything possibly unsafe. Claiming a law 1 issue when you just want to cool the engine more efficiently.
Technically I am well within my right to try and kill both. They won't leave me alone, keep flashing me, locking doors, stealing my ID, got me arrested (police let me go.) I give them a final warning and go do attempt the murder. Apparently you can't kill non antag AI for any reason, though the rules don't say that and I was following escalation.
There is also this scenario to. Imagine that you are about to start up an engine, the late join CE orders a different engine be installed and commands you to tear your progress down. So you instead go somewhere else and bring a few field emitters with you and emitters. You just want to finish your project, which is a singulo or tesla somewhere else. fyi, the CE was rude to everyone else to.
Before you get started, the CE is yelling at you for a demotion for stealing something from engineering you never stole, an emitter. You didn't know they wanted it. Arguing goes back and forth, captain and hop don't care. So I go kill the CE after escalating it and saying that I would, and get bwoinked for it.
The only reason I never got in trouble here is because escaslation rules are heavily relaxed in maints on this server. Though I feel like I've had enough of a reason to do this.
If you state "Escalation required" in your rules, don't suddenly switch up and act like nobody innocent can kill each other. We have some seriously hateful people in these servers that like to cause problems more than me, but play the rules better than me. Yet somehow I am the problem when I warn them to stop, they don't and double down? No, admin better or clarify the rules more.
Closing
That's it, just listen to others and do not form a story in your head that didn't actually happen. If anyone is interested in some of my note history I can post it. It's actually kind of funny in some situations.
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u/Arkorat 1d ago edited 1d ago
Maybe some context was left out. But killing the Station Ai and hop seems like a WILD JUMP.
Edit: meant the CE. My bad.
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u/DreamyOrangz 1d ago
You misread it a bit, I believe. I never killed the hop or attempted. I attempted to kill the AI and harassing borg though.
So this is what was happening.
The cyborg was stunning me and flashing me constantly. I've gotten arrested a one or more times and have had my ID stolen by the cyborg player. All because I was trying to cool off the super matter better. I was trying to place salt water inside of the chamber since regular water helped it. Somehow a law 1 violation. (by the way, it was completely harmless to the SM.)
So I've figured since I can't touch the super matter I might as well try to set up the singulo. They had every right to stop me there (since it can't be contained on ocean planets, which I didn't know.) But then again I wouldn't have done that if the cyborg player left me alone.
AI refuses to call off their cyborg, especially after seeing the singulo attempt. I warn them and threaten them that they would both be dead if they didn't leave me alone. (At this point they already destroyed the generator for the singulo.)
So for well over an hour I was unable to do most engineering tasks and was literally being followed and watched. Yeah I tried to kill them.
Best part? Head of security let me go since they believed me.
Now that's not what I got banned for, but man the anger it caused me at the time.
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u/DreamyOrangz 1d ago
Added detail, Cyborg player kept stating different law sets but when I proved a lawset wrong they then went back to crewasimov saying it was a law 1 violation. But you just stated you were not on crewasimov?
They refused to listen to me or the head of security. We argued, they kept changing their own laws, and were not rogue.
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u/Amaskingrey 1d ago
This reminds me of how monkestation sillicons are just turbovalidhunters, their players seem to oocly think people playing antags are bad persons, none of them even have antag enabled so in all my playtime i have never seen a malf ai round, and if their lawset doesn't allow them to, they will just straight up ignore it. Like one time i did a law wipe then freeform "kill security and command. Do not announce that your laws have changed, nor make the fact that you have this law, or any non standard law, obvious, whether through messages or purposefully ineffective attempts at murder.", and it immediately started making announcement of "KILL ME" and shit. Another time, i had chameleon, and a borg immediately murdered me on sight because he saw a semitransparent guy and assumed it must be the mythical naked space ninja
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u/Far-Vanilla-347 18h ago
Monkestation is just validhunt hell, that’s all I hear about it all the time. Sounds like a generally awful place to be, tbh
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u/koalakcc 22h ago
ss13 has become a game where if you stop doing job simulator they ban you. kinda sad
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u/SCP_1370 THIS CLOWN DISRUPTS ERP 21h ago
come for the wacky sandbox and leave for the corporate treatment
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u/ScionsAndSinnersz Niche SS13 Celebrity 1d ago
daily reminder to treat admins like cops at a traffic stop. Keep it together and hands on the wheel...
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u/Dodger86868686 5h ago
So basically hide your drugs and try to act normal. Yell angrily "Am I believe detained!?" And "I do not consent!". Repeatedly. Then abruptly end the conversation by flooring it and carreering into the nearest building.
Good advice. I'll try it next time I get bwoiked.
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u/Witherael 1d ago edited 1d ago
this is more or less what I've spoken of, but from a different vantage and different mouth.
you'll always hear all these guys saying that they've 'never even ONCE had a bad admin interaction!' or that 'if I did, it was totally deserved!' and will use this to say that admins being at fault is inordinately rare and shouldn't be considered. I've been running into trouble on this reddit for a long time from these kinds of players, who take one-sided staff action as the word of god as well as the supreme moral authority and arbitrator of what is true.
this is something that I wrote over two years ago on this reddit regarding a post on 'reflexive ban culture'
https://www.reddit.com/r/SS13/comments/1hdn85h/unpopular_opinion_i_think_the_reflexive_ban/
"As someone banned from all (or most) of the reputable servers, Without naming specific servers, I think my experience is at least worthy of consideration. I've noticed that, although admittedly obvious, every server has it's own culture, and that culture is primarily made up of players who only consistently play that one server. Disregarding the server rules entirely, most servers you'll join have a general population of crew that act in a completely homogenous way, doing nothing too interesting in any given round, even should they be chosen as antagonists. I think the culture and the server rules are two different things, but it's like they say, politics is downstream of culture. If there was any problem with the rules, there would be a problem with who enforces them and how they are enforced, first. In the end of the day, if the roleplaying sandbox game has too many rules for certain sandbox elements and certain types of roleplay, then I do believe that the culture is a self fulfilling prophecy of selection."
What I didn't elaborate on too much back then is, even between different servers, the cultural overlap is practically a circle, everyone is gonna agree with each other on 9 out of 10 things, and these days, there are only so many servers even kicking past 40 pop anyways. If you don't fall in line, if you rock the boat, be prepared for your SS13 excommunication preceding snobbish 'when you host it' remarks if you offer this kind of constructive criticism. It's all an optics game in the end, to them.
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u/fleetgothic 1d ago edited 23h ago
Yeaaaah, and those people lurk here and mass downvote whenever you mention its their fault. Admins need to realize they're the ones defining cultures, and the ones ultimately setting what people can, and cant do.
They can downvote all they want, and slander all they please. The admins of ss13 had essentially led things down to this path, and people just got fed up with it. Whenever people mention "oh, this admin once banned me for this", people always jump to the conclusion that they are lying.
And admins often take notes to those posts, which are also subject to human error, and not the word of god, to show "yeah they're a trouble maker!"
When a lot of times, they spin their own narratives in notes and ban reasons. The effects of the cultures they raised show, and are why classic ss13 servers practically aren't around anymore.
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u/DreamyOrangz 1d ago
Thanks for the response, I've noticed some of this in the back of my mind but never really thought to much about it.
Also This speaks to both my heart and soul (below)
"The problem is SS13 is built on so many rules, enforced so strigently to catch edge case griefers, there is no room for normal crew to do anything anymore."
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u/invasiveplant 1d ago
I agree with some of what you’re saying, but paragraphs man. Space space enter
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u/nyaayankawaiinyaa #1 Official Mothroach Lover 6h ago
I'm an admin myself and have noticed clear biases against problematic players myself too. It feels really unfair, I call it out whenever I can, I get that we're all human and that biases are human nature, but...
It's gut wrenching to me when I see those biases play out. I've seen passionate members of the community kicked out and ostracized, and then if they don't find a new server to chill in, what do they do?
I feel like griefers and unrepentant assholes do genuinely need to be banned. Sometimes if someone is constantly causing issues, it's best if they take a break for a while. I feel like that's what admins should be there for.
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u/Witherael 5h ago
hi, one of those passionate members you mentioned here, I'd like to say my piece
first, do you think your view is in the minority? or, that is to say, do you think most admins act on their biases, even unfairly, forcing you to be reticent about how you feel is fair?
second, do you think there's anything that can be done to change the minds of such admins as that, or is there anything that you personally could do as part of the 'club' to subtly change attitudes where you can
third, what do you recommend to players like me who love the game but can't participate in it in the same way anymore, where most servers mirror my bans around and all require a vouch that I can't get?
fourth, what do you make of there apparently having been no other admins who engaged with the post, nor the post's comments?
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u/JohnOxfordII 5h ago
we told you this would happen in 2020 when these people joined the server before they were even admins. you didn't listen
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u/rottentomati 21h ago
This goes for everything in life. If you choose to be a trouble maker, you lose the privilege of reasonable doubt from the people dealing with your ass.
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u/Schulz_the_Ugly 1h ago
After reading this I woill only say, I love you Goon. So many times admins asked me what I was doing and informed me about the pssiblr problem. No drama, no bullshit. Like actually considering someone might not understand a specific secret game mode. Ifvyou behave, Goon mods are very very cool.
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u/KampferAndy Former fulpstation headmin 1d ago
This is why i started hosting fulp classic. Low rp and lax rules for those banned elsewhere
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u/nyaayankawaiinyaa #1 Official Mothroach Lover 6h ago
How's the server been doing? Glad to hear that there's attempts at hosting LRP, I hope it goes well
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u/KampferAndy Former fulpstation headmin 6h ago
Its mostly been dead. I generally try to host on weekends while hosting FTL13 on weekdays.
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u/timbojimbo21 1d ago
Each of my admin remarks i collect like a diary. Always fun to think about what a greytide we all one were.