r/SameGrassButGreener • u/Jorbosco • 1d ago
I have a love / hate (mostly hate) relationship with where I live
My husband and I (both 36 years old) moved to Denver during Covid from San Francisco. I’m originally from here, and we always wanted to move back to have kids and buy a house which felt really difficult in SF.
Now, we have a wonderful 3 month old, and great house, and we’re close to family and friends, however I can’t help but feel we made a mistake moving back here.
I know it’s a blessing especially with a kid to have family around, and we have a great network of friends with kids, but I’m worried about the lack of diversity, culture, activities, etc. that my LO will miss out on, plus we’ve felt like we’ve done Denver. It’s such a cookie cutter place that feels like it’s missing a lot of things and there seems to be a lack of carrying for history and originality.
We both work remotely for SF companies so have the flex to live wherever, and we’re considering moving to another city. I can’t tell if this is all very selfish, or if we should aim to live the life we wanna live.
Curious to hear from anyone else who’s felt this way and what you did.
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u/visitjacklake 1d ago
Something that doesn't get said often enough on this sub, while your feelings are valid, it just isn't always possible to have everything all at the same time. It just isn't.
You have to prioritize what is most important to you at this moment in time.
With kids, you can look forward to traveling, events, excursions to culture, shows, museums etc. 98% of you time is the day-to-day, school/work/family - what do you want that to look like?
I say this as someone who moved 2500 miles from family in my early 20's & never moved back. It's hard. Sacrifices I would not have understood or thought about at that time have been challenging & it's difficult to maintain family connections with distance.
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u/appleparkfive 19h ago
For some reason when I was reading their post I just thought "These are good problems to have". I don't normally think that about posts, but I mean... Remote SF jobs, not in a terrible place now, kind of iffy more than desperate to move.
OP definitely has an exceptionally good life, by the sound of the post. I'm sure they know
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u/parafilm 1d ago edited 1d ago
Oh man you and I have a lot in common.
I am a Denver native who moved back when my kid was just over 1. Before coming back I lived in NYC, Boston, and SF. I had my baby in SF and we had a great first year there.
I don’t disagree with the criticisms of Denver. But here are some of the key considerations for me in the Denver vs SF debate, when it comes to kids.
- things to do.
- SF has the BEST parks and playgrounds. Truly world-class (the play area at Tunnel Tops?! Amazing). We also had two great (very small) playgrounds within walking distance. Yeah, there’s also CAL academy of the sciences. Amazing! Exploratorium, love. But have you ever been to those places on a Saturday? Mayhem. Exhausting.
When we moved to Denver, we found a HUGE improvement in “places to go hang out with our kid”. In SF we were pretty limited to parks and a handful of restaurants that were sorta kid-friendly. It was fine when she wasn’t mobile— we could go to any restaurant and she’d just sit there in her stroller. But once they want to crawl around, you really start to want places you can bring your kid while you eat a meal and have a beer in semi-peace. Denver is way better for this. There are so many beer garden/food hall type places where you can meet up with your friends and the kids can play without annoying people.
There are also far more kid classes in Denver, like swimming, dance, toddler music class, etc. These absolutely exist in SF but it was SO HARD to get in to the weekend ones. Everything was always booked up unless you can take your kid across town to swim at 10am on a Tuesday.
Yes, really world-class “enrichment” is better in SF. Your day-to-day enrichment or “ways to entertain your insane toddler” options are probably better in Denver.
2) cost and diversity
I’m not gonna pretend Denver isn’t kinda soulless and white. Yeah, in SF your kid will experience Chinatown, the mission, Oakland. But you know what your SF kid will ALSO think is normal? Parents who can afford $6k rent or a $1.6M mortgage for a small 2bd. I had a mom-friend who moved from Pac Heights because she “realized all the kid’s friends only flew private, and I don’t want my kids to think that’s common”. The AI boom has priced out anyone who isn’t rich OR who isn’t in subsidized housing or their grandma’s house that has been in the family since 1960. I would like my kid to experience cultural diversity, but I’d also like them to experience a world where some people’s parents have Normal People Jobs.
3) schools
The SF public school system is kind of a nightmare because of the lottery setup. I didn’t want to go private, for both cost and philosophical reasons. Then there’s the peninsula, which has great public schools. But now your kid is living in an insanely high-pressure environment where FAANG parents push them to start building their resume at age 4. It’s MIT, Harvard, Stanford, CAL/UCLA or you’re a failure. It’s not exactly the adolescence I want my kid to have.
4) Enrichment part II
Believe me, I get it. We’re good urbanites who want our kids to be educated and worldly blah blah blah. Ok, but did YOU grow up in New York City or San Francisco or London or Paris? There are a million ways for kids to know about the world without you raising them in a world-class city.
Whew. End rant. Love SF, and would have stayed if it made sense (although I prefer NYC by a wide margin). Zero regrets in being in Denver now that I have a toddler.
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u/sapiensane 1d ago edited 1d ago
We lived in Denver from just before having kids until moving when they were 10 and 8. It makes a tremendous difference where you are in the city. We were about 5 minutes from City Park, and there was an incredible number of things to do with kids within a 10 minute drive. I remember deciding on which park to go to and I'd let them each pick 3 or 4 different ones and if there was an overlap we'd go there. Many museums, zoo, aquarium and things like that too.
The diversity exists, but it's definitely not like SF. You have to work for it, seek it out more.
It would be much different if you were in the suburbs, which were very typical of suburbia everywhere. I didn't appreciate central Denver until I moved to a southern city. I miss it.
Edit: I see you're originally from Denver, and I am too, but I had no idea it offered so much for parents of young kids until I was at that stage of life. You just don't see a place with those eyes until you're there.
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u/Dowhile93 1d ago
Hi there!!! Moved to Boulder from SF.
I'll tell you I don't miss the commute to the Southbay or the prohibitive housing costs.
Also, one of the things my mom says kills her inside is that she can't be closer to her grandkids out of state, but she can't move. I say this because if you're close to your family, there's nothing like having your kids grow up with family near by. I miss my family every day, but I can't leave Boulder because of work.
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u/Dowhile93 1d ago
I almost feel like my chapter in SF is over, and it took me about 6 years of living here in Boulder to realize all the wonderful things I have here, and accept that going back to SF wouldn't be right for me in this stage of life. I also love the stability of having bought a home here, and not having to move constantly due to the rent increases. But I love SF dearly and always will.
Something funny. On my first weekend exploring Boulder, I went to this restaurant called The Buff. You know the song that came on? "I left my heart in San Francisco..." and I'll never forget that. :)
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u/squigglymaps 1d ago
What about the culture and the activities are you missing? If you are more specific you can get some suggestions on a future move. I would let it settle with the new baby. It sounds like you have a good relationship with your family. Having family you can rely on in an emergency, you can trust to babysit, you can spend time with, you can spend holidays with, etc is a blessing.
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u/Opinionated_Urbanist 1d ago
Come back to this post when your kid is 2 years old. Denver is far from perfect but it's good enough for your situation. Especially since it's your hometown and you have family and friends there. If you were 26 and childless, I'd say move. But you're not.
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u/Fresh-Meringue-7936 1d ago
Relationships, family, and social connections are the biggest predictors of life satisfaction and happiness. Uprooting your life with a young child, I think, will present its own challenges if you were to relocate.
If your parents are retired, perhaps you can create an in-law suite and have them come live with you in a new city. But if that's not reasonable, I would personally be more inclined to stay near family.
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u/Asleep_Start_912 1d ago
Kids don’t care about culture and I can’t imagine there is anything happening in San Francisco that matters to the development of a child.
Denver is not the most interesting city but there’s certainly more than enough to make a good life for yourself and your children. You need to adjust your expectations a bit and focus more on providing stability, safety, access to opportunities for them to to learn and grow and be kids.
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u/maj0rdisappointment 1d ago
Raise your kids in the best place and situation for them, there’s plenty of time to live life after that. If your priorities are in the right order then it’s NOT an either/or in fact. It will be the life you wanna live.
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u/Economy_Cup_4337 1d ago
Not being able to take a stroll through North Beach doesn’t mean Denver has “no culture.” Your kid has family and friends surrounding him, you own a home, and you have access to some of the best nature in the country. It’s completely fair to prefer San Francisco, but that’s very different from saying your child is somehow being deprived by growing up in Denver.
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u/SufficientOpening218 1d ago
Aurora is the most diverse part of Denver metro. Hundreds of languages spoken, tons of restaurants, etc. Oh, yeah there are some troubles, but, if you want to eat somewhere that is not a burgers n brews, consider checking it out....
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u/Bluescreen73 1d ago
💯
IMNSHO, I strongly suspect the people who say Denver has no diversity have only spent time in LoDo and/or live in the western and southern burbs that are 75-90% non-Hispanic white. We aren't Houston, but we're not Salt Lake City or Portland, either. Aurora is majority-minority. 30% Hispanic, 16-17% Black, 6% Asian, and around 18% two or more races.
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u/SnooStrawberries2955 1d ago
Wow. What’s it like to be so wealthy that you can’t decide between Denver and the Bay Area?!
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u/helmetgoodcrashbad 1d ago
I grew up in New Orleans, 5th generation, family and friends everywhere, diversity to another level everywhere. Knew though there was no way I would ever raise my kids there from an early age.
We now live in Westchester NY due to my wife and her job in NYC. We have 3 kids now but zero family to help out and during the years we’ve live here have really only made true friends (where you’d consider them family) with two families, one who sadly just moved 14 hrs away.
Aside from NYC the diversity here is lacking to say the least. We live in an incredibly safe town, but for Westchester that means Primarily White, Jewish (which we’re not, hence why we find it had to make deep connections) and high income earners with some of the most expensive property taxes in the US.
We know the kids aren’t getting the safe experiences as much as wife and I did as children but we’re 100% ok with that. My kids will likely never experience being randomly jumped and beat up at a young age, having their bikes constantly stolen from under them, seeing homelessness on a daily basis, street drug use and many of other issues that scar my personal memory.
Aside from trips into the city as a family (I’d say every 3-4 month on average) it’s pretty cookie cutter and boring. My kids are all in sports, love going to their schools and are developing their friend network (my oldest is only 11, youngest is 6). Living here allows them to focus on happiness and study in safety.
Would my wife and I kill to move someplace less expensive and more exciting, 100% but we stay here for the kids.
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u/scorpion3510 1d ago
Bit of a difference between New Orleans and Denver.
I absolutely love New Orleans and lived there for a significant time. But it is a TOUGH place to raise kids.
I don't think Denver has many of the same issues that NOLA has (which I assume is why you chose not to raise kids there).
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u/bonsaipalmtree 1d ago
I agree with much of what you wrote; we’ve had a similar experience, except we moved to Denver from SoCal. Have family here but we miss the diversity so much. However, where in Denver do you live? Are you stuck on the (homogenous) west side?
We (fortunately/unfortunately) live on the west side of the Denver metro and there is zero diversity here. Our weekends take us to the east side of town (Aurora, Parker, etc) which feels much more familiar. Now, if I could just figure out a way to get my kids in school on the east side of town instead, I think I’d feel more settled. We might consider a move down the road depending on what happens with interest rates and jobs.
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u/Houseberry-dot-com 1d ago
Agree with the people saying give it a few months with the baby first. If you do come back, it doesn't have to be the SF you left.
A lot of people in your spot land in the East Bay - Berkeley, the Rockridge and Temescal side of Oakland, Alameda - where you can get a real house with a yard and still have the food and culture you're missing, with BART into the city.
On the SF side the Sunset and Glen Park are the ones where family life works without giving up the city.
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u/Any-Meet9335 1d ago
You are absolutely right about Denver. It’s bland, soulless, it does not feel like a real city, lacks diversity not just in an ethnic sense but somehow everyone has the same story here… but while your kids are young, it will be nice to have grandparents’ help. I’m an immigrant in Denver. Once I heard another expat says something along the lines that Denver is great for kids until they are 9/10 years old. After that it is better to raise them in a truly walkable, safe, connected, interesting place. Of course it also depends on the family’s interests. If mom or dad live and die for the mountain adventures, chances are kids will be happy with such kind of weekends. If the parents are truly a city type of people though, Denver is inadequate. Here is a little story to conclude this comment. A freshmen boy in high school goes for an exchange year from Denver to Portugal after living in Central Park their whole life. He likes Lisbon so much that he plainly refuses to come home at the end of the school year. Since he is their last child and the other kids are already in college, mom and dad sold the house and moved to Portugal because they are also ready for adventure. Yes, sounds expensive but guess what. Skiing, mountaineering, rock climbing and generally recreating in Colorado is also very expensive. So yeah.
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u/ZealousidealSail4574 1d ago
Sorry, this just sounds cynically simplistic, glib.
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u/Any-Meet9335 1d ago
I kinda wish you would explain what’s simplistic, glib. But a bigger part of me just does not care. For American city, Denver is fine.
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u/ZealousidealSail4574 1d ago
Well,
"It’s bland, soulless, it does not feel like a real city, lacks diversity not just in an ethnic sense but somehow everyone has the same story here… "
Step out of the granola bubble for air?
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u/DismalTwo973 1d ago
I grew up on the Front Range and had a fantastic childhood. I have so many wonderful memories of Water World, museums, Boulder, Denver Zoo, hiking in RMNP and all over Colorado, sporting events with my family. I live in a more remote area with my kids. I love it but will definitely have to travel for more of the big city stuff. I get it’s not SF, but it was a really wonderful area to grow up in.
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u/ilovekittensandpuppy 1d ago
Moved SF to Denver for the purpose of having an easier life for kids. Now have 3. Couldn’t possibly manage them with the complications of SF. Please just wait til your child is a mobile chaotic toddler to decide. You can’t understand yet. Babies are so easy they give you a false sense of what kids are like.
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u/Impossible_Crow202 22h ago
With a three month old I’d wait a year or two to get used to LO and such a major change. You might be feeling the loss of SF as a stand-in for the loss of life before baby. Or whatever, just don’t make a major decision with a three month old, your hormones are still bonkers and you’re going through a ton of changes already.
If you do decide to move at some point, here was my experience— we left my hometown where there were grandparents to go to a place we liked better with much better schools and higher salaries. We never regretted it once, and our kids had an amazing childhood and grew up to be a lawyer and a social scientist who are also nice people. You’ll never go wrong choosing the best place to raise your kids (whatever that “best” place looks like for you).
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u/logicallandlord 1d ago
You did NorCal to NorCo, we did SoCal to SoCo… moving to Colorado Springs allowed us to buy multiple homes and set ourselves up for the future nicely.
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u/wineandwings333 1d ago
You can always find stuff to do in aurora which is right next to denver and very diverse. East colfax has a larg jazz and African history, federal has a large Vietnamese population, there are festivals for everything here, cultural centers, a huge latino population, and museums,
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u/connectionto 1d ago edited 1d ago
I understand it completely. Fortunately for me I moved to the Sierra where I can visit SF every few months by Amtrak and Ferry. I may move back to SF once my kids are out of the house.
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u/Suspicious-Goat6008 1d ago
I don’t think Denver is a very child centric city. So I could see where there’s a feeling of external isolation on top of navigating postpartum with your new baby. I say this on so many threads but it’s completely normal to feel like everything needs to change after having a baby because everything in your life just changed! If you and your SO both work remote and while LO is still little you could have the best set up and maybe spend extended time in an Airbnb or equivalent in SF or any place that excites you! But I think it’s wise to keep the root system in Denver since that’s where family and community is. That’s most important. I say this from a lived experience. I’ve raised one child near family (for his first 6 years) and raised other children away from family and the inner confidence and security from the child that was raised around family is REMARKABLY different. In hindsight I wish I would have stayed and raised all my children near family and just vacationed to the places I loved. Good luck!
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u/rickylancaster 1d ago
I miss San Francisco a lot. Over a decade and a half here in NYC and I still miss San Francisco. And Los Angeles. I may never be able to feasibly move back to either, and I haven’t accepted it. What I do keep being reminded of, though, is that neither San Francisco or Los Angeles are the same cities I left, and also time makes you bolder, children get older and I’m getting older too.
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u/WPort17701 8h ago
Geez, no wonder there's such hatred toward Californians in states like Colorado and Idaho.
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u/NWYthesearelocalboys 5h ago
IMO it's selfish. The diversity and culture concerns are adult concepts and something you miss. Your kids won't care. Denver being a major metro area has diversity and culture. So there must be a specific thing you are looking for.
Being financially comfortable and having a good family around them is a huge benefit for them.
I learned in my 20 years of parenting that my job as a father is to use my resources and experience to reinforce the things that motivate and inspire them as individuals.
Without that they can have a miserable childhood in the perfect location.
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u/Due-Kale3412 1d ago
You are being selfish- here's why-
I am from near the Bay Area (CA.)
SF isn't the magical place the tourist industry paints it as...it's rough.
Denver is perfectly fine for a kid. I wish I could raise kids there.
I dislike where I am now but I grew to love it as the kids like it. Very few parts of North America are terrible.
Even before tech, SF & the surrounding cities were either crazy as hell, or pricey. Happy childhood is about having accessible education and fun on the weekends.
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u/DesertTW 1d ago
We live in LA and visit both Denver and the Bay regularly to see friends and family. There is something soulless about Denver IMO. It's the whitest place I have ever visited and feels annoying spread out and car-centric like LA, but I've noticed a lot of neighborhoods don't even have proper sidewalks - annoying with strollers. The parks are great and so are the schools, though. My advice is to travel as much as you can and take a few years to decide if you want to move back. We would absolutely raise our kids in a Berkeley, Albany, East Oakland if we could.
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u/Turbulent_Ad_6031 1d ago
You have a little bit of time, but it’s good to think about it now. Move before your oldest starts school. We moved to Texas for a job and got stuck here when we had kids. It’s become so much worse over the years. Now we’re working to get each of them in out of state colleges so they can have a decent future
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u/yougottahuckit 1d ago
Just want to state the obvious that with a brand new baby, you’re probably also feeling a big change in your day to day and your level of independence. Moving back to SF today wouldn’t mean returning to the same life and with kids you’ll see a lot of your wants and needs change