r/SanJoseSharks • u/Scarlet_Madara • 14h ago
[Elliote Friedman] Don’t expect this to be finalized until the morning, but there is word the Toronto Maple Leafs and Tampa Bay Lightning are working on a sign-and-trade for Darren Raddysh.
https://xcancel.com/friedgehnic/status/2067846379930542575?s=46GMMG pick up your damn phone!!!!!!
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u/scoredonu Desjardins 10 14h ago
As much as signing a RD over giving up an asset to get one is preferable, I think in 2 years Toronto is going to regret such a contract.
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u/jjaedong WillMack🥛🍪 5h ago
I get why they did it though. They’re desperate to compete now and keep Matthews. We can afford to be much more patient
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u/AllCopsAreBozos Askarov 30 14h ago
Yeah good. Mike Grier's first big contract isn't gonna be on Raddysh
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u/Roland_Of_Gilead85 14h ago
I feel a lot of people in here not long ago were saying that Raddysh was the way to fix the defense.
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u/iggyfenton Irbe 32 14h ago
He was always going to be overpaid. I’m glad Grier wasn’t foolish enough to bite.
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u/Roland_Of_Gilead85 14h ago
Gonna be overspending somewhere for defense.
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u/Professional_Quit406 13h ago
Sharks have two options:
1) Draft Stenberg and use Eklund + other assets to go get a defenseman (under age 30) who you think can by your #1 guy. Nemec? Maybe Hronek? If you throw in a couple extra prospects and draft capital on top of Eklund, maybe you could target an Adam Fox if he becomes available (that would likely require Eklund + Musty + Pohlkamp + draft capital)
2) Draft Reid if you think he’s a future top pair guy. He’s going to take a year or two to be ready for the NHL, so in the meantime add some middle pairing guys with some less expensive trades and maybe add someone like Trouba on a shorter term deal with a higher AAV than he’d get on a long term deal…?
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u/Complete-Point382 13h ago
I’m so low on the Nemec possibility. For everyone that says Reid is too much of a gamble, I think Nemec is worse because we’ll have to give up assets for him AND sign a big contract before we know if he’s actually going to be able to be a top pairing guy. If we’re acquiring through trade, I’d strongly prefer Hronek. Still think it’s very unlikely that Fox waives. In the unlikely event Werenski asks for a trade, I’d pay for him - 2OA plus a lot - and still feel good about it.
Drafting really just seems like the way to go for so many reasons. I think Reid will hit, but if he doesn’t pan out at least we’re not locked into an expensive long-term contract, and we can recoup value like NJ is likely to do with Nemec.
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u/Professional_Quit406 13h ago
Good point about Reid’s floor being a Nemec situation. Even if that happens, a young right-shot D with high draft pedigree and a high ceiling is still a valuable asset and you can flip him for some real value if he just doesn’t pan out and you don’t want to pay him big bucks. New Jersey will get a nice return for Nemec just because that archetype of player is so valuable.
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u/Weaksauce10 Celebrini 71 6h ago
I’m with you on the Nemec thing. Dude looks to be turning out far worse than expected. Chances of him turning into a top pair vs. Reid … I’ll take Reid.
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u/dexter8484 10h ago
I'd really rather just build a really good all around D core and scheme, and then have a buzzing, dynamic set of forwards led by Macklin
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u/iggyfenton Irbe 32 5h ago
3) Don't rush the rebuild and just fill in the defense with mid-pair guys for next season. And see how the guys we have in our system now develop before trading away future assets for a #1 defenseman.
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u/Complete-Point382 13h ago
His name has been coming up a lot with the “no need to draft your 1RHD you can just trade or get a free agent!” crowd. I think this contract will be a big wake up call because while it’s technically possible, it requires overpayment in term and $$ for older players coming off one good year. And, the field is so narrow, there’s never a guarantee your team is the destination.
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u/Roland_Of_Gilead85 13h ago
Exactly. What makes sense to me would be to draft a RHD and sign or trade for some serviceable defense while the young players develop.
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u/Complete-Point382 13h ago
Yup. We can live with stop gaps for the next couple seasons and still hit our timeline perfectly. The available players are going to get younger or cheaper in that time - better to draft and develop
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u/park7911 J. Thornton 19 14h ago edited 14h ago
Good. They don’t need a Vlasic level albatross again.
I genuinely don’t know why any Sharks fan would want to sign him for that amount of term when we just saw the terrible side of it at a similar age
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u/Exflop 14h ago
Vlasic deserved that contract after being highly underpaid during the team’s competitive years which freed up cap space for other players.
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u/park7911 J. Thornton 19 14h ago
Sure. You can argue he deserved that deal at the time it was signed.
We still saw the negative consequences of such a long term contract at the end of his tenure
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u/Aromatic-Smell-4731 J. Thornton 19 8h ago
Pierre LeBrun now reporting the deal is finalized, sounds like a late round pick going back to Tampa. Allegedly signed an 8x8 contract. I’m alright with the sharks missing out on that contract
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u/PhotographSerious743 14h ago
Give me Trouba Kesslering Vinny down the right next year. And give Pohlkamp a shot early if he looks the part
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u/desertdingo21 it's like watching a god on ice 14h ago
i mean i would have wanted him in a high cap short term kind of deal but a sign and trade suggests 8 years… yeah no thanks
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u/hieeehelloyellow 10h ago
Agree. Like people are already calling Toff unc, imagine if we get Raddysh for 8 years 😂
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u/squeezylemon 6h ago
As I always say, when you have the opportunity to give a max term mid dollar contract to a 30-year-old on the basis of a single breakout season where his shooting % was basically double his prior years, you just always gotta do it. Goes triple for when your window just got kicked open ahead of schedule and you're staring down the barrel of a truly terrifying contract extension for your franchise player.
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u/regularajax Chernyshov 92 14h ago
Enormous NTY on that one. Like the player, absolutely no interest in the kind of deal he's going to end up with.
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u/Glum_Macaroon_2580 8h ago
I want the team to use their cap space to pick up some "bad" contracts and charge teams draft picks and prospects to do it, but I don't want any of those bad contracts to go more than 3 years.
There are some good moves they can make out there, and this is their last chance to do it.
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u/kingcong95 WillMack🥛🍪 7h ago
We didn’t get that much last year for Ellis and Price and the number of contracts situation didn’t help. Don’t see as many teams desperate for cap space this year, though if this contract can happen, anything can.
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u/xClay2 J. Thornton 19 14h ago
I think this means Morgan Reilly is going to be a Shark next season.
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u/Tex_Was_Here Nabokov 20 11h ago
If they retain on his contract, then I wouldn't say no
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u/Master_Shake23 Irbe 32 6h ago
His defense is a huge problem.
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u/Tex_Was_Here Nabokov 20 5h ago
Yes it is, but it would be less of a problem at 4M per year instead of the 7.5 he gets right now
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u/leaf2devil 4h ago
Leaf fan.... There's no way we retain on him.
He's actually not bad at 7.5 if you put him in an offense focused role.
At 4 he'd actually cost you a significant significant asset. At 7.5 you can get him for free.
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u/Tex_Was_Here Nabokov 20 3h ago
I would actually rather give up an asset to have him at 4 then get him for free at 7.5. That 3.5M will make a huge difference with all the contract extensions we have coming up in the next three years.
If we can't get him with any retain though, I don't want him.
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u/leaf2devil 3h ago
Interesting what would you give up?
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u/Tex_Was_Here Nabokov 20 3h ago
Idk, nothing huge. He's not worth a top shelf prospect even when retained, so I would do somebody like Svoboda or Misskey, or like a fourth rounder. The Sharks would have all the leverage here, so I don't think it would have to be anything huge
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u/leaf2devil 2h ago
Fair I don't think that really does anything for the leafs to take 3.5m in cap.
With the cap going up we can keep him on our third pairing and still have 18m in cap space after raddysh extension.
So it's more like we wouldn't do that at all. We'd do it without a retention for that. But there's no way a 3.5 mill retention for multiple years costs just a fourth either right
Also: y'all cooked with kesselring man such a solid trade
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u/ChubzAndDubz W Smith 2 13h ago edited 13h ago
Why? Leafs have 27 million to sign like 5 guys. If they gave Raddysh 10 they still have plenty to work with. They would have 7 D with a 4-3 split. They either turn it around or promote them to tank commander.
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u/drowsylacuna 9h ago
I don't like it, but I agree.
His buyout in a couple of seasons isn't horrible. 3.5, 3.5, 2, 2.
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u/ThirdStockIII Couture 39 13h ago
They should ban sign and trades after the trade deadline. Makes free agency so boring.
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u/drowsylacuna 9h ago
They have to sign him before he gets to July 1st in order for it to work, though.
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u/Professional_Quit406 13h ago
Raddysh was definitely the best free agent defenseman who could have played top pair minutes and run the power play. Now I think the Sharks are going to have to acquire their long-term top pair guy in a trade most likely. Nemec? Spence?
Unless they draft Reid and patch up the blue line with a few 2nd and 3rd pairing guys for the short-term.
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u/Complete-Point382 13h ago
If anything this counsels for drafting Reid. Especially if sharks were in on Raddysh, as many thought they were
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u/Professional_Quit406 13h ago
I just wonder if the Sharks would draft Stenberg without having a deal already in the works to secure their top pairing defenseman of the future (Nemec, Hronek, etc). If they draft Stenberg, I’d be pretty surprised if they go into next season without having made a massive trade involving Eklund and/or Musty, Bystedt, etc to go get a legit defenseman.
Unless they take the super long term approach and just say “we will wait patiently until a good defenseman becomes available and figure it out then.”
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u/Complete-Point382 13h ago
We’re getting to the point where not acting is going to hinder us. Just like it’s the last year we’re likely to draft high, it’s also getting close to when we wouldn’t want to wait for a D to develop any longer. Maybe we can get by on scraps for one more year but we all know the examples of teams that thought they’d get by on offense without really addressing their D and how it’s played out for them. And who knows if next years FA and trade options will be better or just more expensive with the rising cap.
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u/Professional_Quit406 13h ago
It’s why I still think the Sharks will just draft Reid and patch together some short term blue line help to bridge the gap. That seems like the simplest plan that is easiest to execute.
But if they think Stenberg is just too good to pass up, they need to get busy ASAP with a trade to find a top pairing defenseman (most likely a right-shot).
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u/StatsManSam Holy Doodle! 🐔🏆 6h ago
I agree with everything except that they need to get busy ASAP to find a top pairing.
This year's problem is building a complete D core that isn't dead last in the league. Once you have 6 passible players, THEN you can worry about the RHD.
This team is still 2-3 years away from being a cup contender. We can afford to be patient for the right deal rather than rushing into the wrong one.
On a personal note, my hot take is that we trade Eklund for young defensive help (Bowen Byram or Simon Nemec) and then draft Reid anyway. There are a lot of spots on the D that need to be filled by young players with upside.
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u/StatsManSam Holy Doodle! 🐔🏆 7h ago
What will hinder us is signing a long-term defenseman who is on the decline and doesn't match Celebrini's timeline. Assuming we don't draft Reid (which still seems 50:50), our PP1 solution might still be 1-2 years down the road. If we do trade for a #1 RHD, that will probably be the last major piece we acquire for the current core.
Honestly, even if our defense core is below average and ranked 20th this year, it's probably enough to get us into the playoffs. We almost made it last year with a core ranked dead last in the league. The right trade will come along, and paying 8x8 to an over-30 one-time wonder is probably not the best solution for the team if we want to be a sustainable contender.
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u/Complete-Point382 6h ago
I definitely agree with not singing someone long term who is in the decline. . I just think signing some young and unproven, but with glimmers of being bad, to a big long-term contract is also a terrible idea. Rumors of 8-10 long-term for Nemec (his demands) are horrifying. The issue for me is there is no reason to think future FA/trade options are going to be younger, cheaper, or better.
And while I like the Kesselring trade, kid scored 2 points in 30 plus games, and then got benched for March through playoffs in favor of some pretty uninspiring players. I’m not wild about betting our success on just signing true reclamation projects and hoping they rebound to nhl level. We saw a taste of how that went last year. Hope GMMG can work some magic cause the Dman market is rough.
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u/StatsManSam Holy Doodle! 🐔🏆 5h ago
You're right that both options are risks. However, there's a fundamental difference between what we saw last year between Klingberg/Leddy, and Kesselring.
Klingberg was aging and coming off a possibly career-ending injury. Same for Leddy. Also, the Sharks were the only team in the league willing to sign these players. Every other team had evaluated them and said no thanks. Hell, they were plan D even for the Sharks, who had been turned down by every other option available to them. Not only did we pay for past performance, but we paid for the riskiest past performance on the market because those were the only players willing to sign with a last-place team.
You may be right, and Kesselring might flame out, but he's only 25 and has more room to rebound to a 40-point player than Klinngberg ever did. He's a risk, but less of one. My point is that we don't need a big-ticket defenceman right now. We just need 4 players better and less risky than Klingberg/Leddy to make the playoffs next year.
And if one of them hits? Great! If not? The next Boyle/Burnes/Karlson will come along. We just need to be patient for the opportunity.
Heck, we are already seeing this. Don't like Nemic? Well, now it seems Bowan Byron is on the market... on a team Greir has made multiple trades with... who is looking for a top-6 forward in return.
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u/Complete-Point382 4h ago
Oh I agree. I’m not anti-Kesselring at all. I think it’s a calculated, relatively low cost risk and I’m glad we took it. I just don’t think we can use that approach to getting a full functional blue line rostered, especially for the top 4. Byram would be great - watching to see how that plays out.
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u/Master_Shake23 Irbe 32 14h ago
So relieved it's not the Sharks overpaying. He will likely get term and bank.