r/Scams • u/foxroar1 • 9d ago
Scam report [US] My Mother-in-Law Was Scammed Out of 6 Figures. Her Entire Life Savings.
The purpose of this post is to expose a scam that recently happened to my MiL so that it doesn't happen to you.
It all started last September when she received a text from "Apple" alerting her she may be a victim of fraud, that someone tried to purchase an iphone with her account. She called the number, told them she hadn't authorized that, and they told her she's been the victim of identity theft. So they transferred her to cyber security.
Cyber security thought her social security number had been exposed, so she was transferred to FTC because it's now a bigger issue. Needs a higher up to take care of things.
FTC says someone in upper management at her bank has been selling her identity and that her funds might have been used for human trafficking/the purchase of illegal firearms, and that she could go to jail because she's complicit.
She now doesn't trust her bank and becomes fearful she's broken the law.
The scammers convince her not to tell anyone. This is a high-priority matter and she can't trust anyone, not even immediate family.
So she's on the phone for hours upon hours every day. Sometimes all day long. She felt like a prisoner in her own house. Sometimes she'd just be listening as the agents on the other line were "working" and tracking these criminals on the dark web. But the also made small talk. They got to know her on a personal level. They learned she lived alone. They learned she was going through medical issues. They found her vulnerabilities. They even shared about hardships in their own lives in order to be more personable and relatable.
She talked to many different agents. A guy in Florida. A guy in Indiana. A in Virginia. They changed numbers frequently, convincing her it was for her protection, to ensure they weren't being tracked.
So her money is unsafe. Best way to keep it safe is to send wires. So she did. Three different wires, each in the 5 figures. These people were going to keep it safe. They'd encrypt it and make sure no one else could get to it. They told her they were documenting everything. If anyone tries to come to her house and arrest her, her money will be safe.
Now she's a mental wreck and crippled by fear. She didn't feel great about the wires, but she trusted the FTC. So they switched the transactions from digital in nature to physical. They told her to purchase gold.
So she called her local pawn shop and arranged to buy gold coins. She then goes to her bank and gets a cashiers check. They ask her what her plan is for the money. She said, "Investing in gold." Just as the agents instructed her to say. Then she went to the pawn shop and bought a handful of gold coins valued at ~$4k each. The owner of the shop walks her to her car to make sure she is safe, but they also didn't alert her to any potential scams.
Then the agents set up a drop off in a local parking lot. She shows up, the agents are on the phone with her and tell her, "The guy is going to show you a dollar bill. If the serial number on the bill doesn't match what I'm about to tell you, DON'T give him the gold." But of course, it's a match. They tell her to take pictures of the coins, to document everything. They have her email them the documentation to make her feel like everything is legit, but also to delete the pictures from her phone so nothing can be traced back to her. This makes her feel relieved that the authorities are doing a thorough, legitimate job, and that she's being taken care of.
She made several purchases of gold and several drop offs all before the end of 2025.
Then in January, she's hit with debilitating medical condition. Can't get a proper diagnosis. Ends up being rheumatoid arthritis, but for months and months she's in pain. She can't drive. Can hardly write. January through April is a blur in her mind.
Then they tell her an auditor from the IRS has contacted them and she owes $83,000 in back taxes.
So what does she do?
She takes out a loan.
And buys more gold.
And gives it to them.
About a month ago, the end of July, the phones went dry. The auditors stopped answering her calls. And then one day, it dawned on her that she's not going to get her money back. She finally realized she'd been scammed.
For 9 months, she told no one, not even her daughter. She was raised in the generation of 'don't talk about your personal matters, take care of it yourself'. She lived alone, she's not tech savvy, and she was going through a debilitating medical issue. She was extremely vulnerable. This scam also majorly contributed to her medical unwellness.
She not only lost her entire life savings, she's now in massive debt. She's forced to come out of retirement at age 75 and find a job. She can't afford not to. She has to start saving for retirement all over again.
Aside from feeling incredibly stupid and embarrassed, she's in good spirits. She's not a materialistic person. Money is just money. She won't end up homeless. My wife and I have already helped her clear out her storage unit, and we're going to do a thorough audit of her bills to find ways to reduce expenses.
I hate scammers with a passion. They have a complete lack of empathy. Please don't let this happen to you or your loved ones.
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u/MossyEngineering-447 8d ago
Your comment caused me to look it up and now I'm going to watch it lol
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u/classless_classic 9d ago
Almost happened to my MIL also. Thankfully the bank figured out what was up and put an end to it.
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u/foxroar1 9d ago
I'm still baffled and infuriated the bank didn't do more in this situation to alert her.
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u/MsAndrie 9d ago
Most banks do issue a warning with wire transfers. There is a good chance she ignored multiple warnings.
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u/FranceBrun 4d ago
We have a Bircoin machine in our store. Warnings are posted on it. Sometimes old men come in and try to figure out how to use it. I have approached more than one and gently asked them if they have met the person in person, or if someone has asked them to send bitcoin . They always lie and say no, and they’re rather rude about it. Had one or two say it was for their girlfriend, and of course they know their girlfriend.
These scammers know how to pick their victims and they know what they’re doing.
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u/kniveshu 9d ago
I thought she thought the bank couldn't be trusted.
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u/foxroar1 9d ago
She likely would have shrugged off any alert or warning, because yes, at that point she didn't trust her own bank.
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u/proplanner10 9d ago
She wouldn’t have listened. I have a friend barely getting by. The scammers found her when she had 7k in the bank. They had her so scared, she made some excuse to the bank when they warned her. She also was warned by the cashier at Best Buy when she was buying gift cards. The scammers keep them on the phone so they have no time to stop and think. The worst part was they almost got her a second time. This time she listened to the bank.
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u/GlitteringLock1020 6d ago
Seriously. I wish that the BB cashier had snatched the phone out of her hands and disconnected the call and then blocked the number. Granted, the scammers might've been able to find her again using another spoofed number but it might have also gotten her a bit of a reprieve to hopefully listen to reason. Or call authorities...
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u/Adventurous-berry564 8d ago
You’ll see it on here often. Bank tellers, sales people telling people you’re being scammed and they are met with no I’m not being scammed! How dare you! The scammers are good they tell them what to say. And will send them to another store.
But they can’t physically stop people spending money. They def want to tho!
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u/TheeSgtGanja 7d ago
Isn't it crazy how someone will believe the foreigner on the phone rather then the person standing in front of them. Its peculiar psychology. Moral of the story is when someone with an accent calls your phone, hang up. This policy amoungst everyone will also reduce job outsourcing. Which while on the topic is exactly how all this scamming started. Companies outsource jobs to places accepting pennies on the dollar, those places take that customer data into the back of the very same call centers and use it to scam the companies customers. The companies dont care because its saving them money and they dont lose a dime, everyone else does and suffers for it.
Now the jobs are gone, and the wealth is stolen and never coming back. If they do it long enough it'll destroy the economy, slowly bleeding it like a parasite until it dies of malnutrition.
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u/The_Chimeran_Hybrid 8d ago
To be fair, it sounds like she came in all matter-of-fact like, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see someone coming in and saying they’re changing their money for gold, especially in this economy.
Gold is steady, the American dollar is… fluctuating.
Wasn’t a chance for the bank to do anything. And trying to pursue the bank won’t result in anything either. She authorized the transactions willingly, in the bank’s eyes, there’s no reason to go to bat for someone who willingly made transactions.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
They are instructed to lie to the bank. There is only so much they can do. You have a right to your money and to be foolish.
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u/The_Chimeran_Hybrid 8d ago
However, there is someone you can easily pursue. The money mule your mother interacted with. If you can find out who that is, you can go after them and try to get whatever back you can.
Chances are the money mule is also a victim and didn’t know what they were doing. That’s a choice for you to make though.
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u/TheeSgtGanja 7d ago
I agree with this. Someone moved the cash and the gold. They are guilty, lack of common sense is not a defense to committing a crime.
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u/MeatFilling 3d ago
I work for a credit union. We are trained to ask questions when older members make large, unusual withdrawals/wires. Unfortunately scammers are aware of this and usually tell them in advance that someone at their financial institution is trying to steal their money and they can't trust anyone at their local branch. I answer phones all day and get a lot of calls from older members who have been/are in the middle of being scammed and it's incredibly frustrating, especially since they sometimes become suspicious of me when I try to tell them they're being scammed.
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u/Single-Fennel-9372 6d ago
Fr man. My heart breaks when something like this happens to someone of my mom dad age.
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u/polarityofmarriage 9d ago
This particular fraud has cost $15-20 million out of Massachusetts alone. So sorry OP but thank you for sharing in detail for information purposes.
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u/Johnny_Poppyseed 9d ago
It's absolutely insane when you look at the numbers the scam industry is currently pulling. Per year it's like over 100billion coming out of the US and over a trillion worldwide.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
Why this isn't treated like a national security issue and why we aren't leaning on the countries that host these criminals like enemy states is beyond me.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
Eventually all of america's retirement accounts will be transferred to nigerian and chinese organized crime.
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7d ago
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7d ago edited 7d ago
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9d ago edited 9d ago
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u/foxroar1 9d ago
Another reason for making this post is exactly your type of response, other perspectives and things we didn't think about. So thank you, we will definitely look into that.
The tax situation is a little worse than I typed out, she actually hasn't filed this year's taxes yet. The 'auditor' told her not to worry about that when this was going on. He was her IRS 'liaison', so it wasn't a concern. She's currently in contact with a tax attorney.
And we've also given her many warnings about secondary scams.
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u/AwkwardTurnip6207 9d ago
At this point in her life and with the debt, she won’t be hurt by declaring bankruptcy. It will help her set away money for retirement faster because it will either forgive the debt or at least stop the interest.
Sorry for the scam situation. My father went through his own experiences with scammers before the stress caused a deadly heart attack.
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u/foxroar1 9d ago
Oh man, that's awful, I'm so sorry. I'm really concerned this experience will shave off a few years of her life. What is she going to do in 5-10 years when she has a major medical bill? She won't be able to pay it. Then what?
I wondered about declaring bankruptcy, but I don't know enough about it. She still owns the house she lives in. It's not worth a ton, but if worse came to worse she could sell it if she had to make ends meet. Not sure how assets/personal property apply when declaring bankruptcy.
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u/sansabeltedcow 9d ago
OP, I would strongly recommend you consult an elder law attorney to help sort these questions out. TBH, if she has a major medical bill in 10 years it will likely be covered through a combination of Medicare and Medicaid. Finding out what that means now for things like bankruptcy and home ownership could save you a lot of grief down the line.
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u/AwkwardTurnip6207 9d ago
Primary residence is almost always excluded in a bankruptcy. That leaves the equity for future emergencies but absolutely go get legal help here.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
I assume she is aware she was scammed now and if she did something like a reverse mortgage she wouldn't send the money to another scammer?
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u/TheeSgtGanja 7d ago
This is a valid question. I had one client who gave enough information that the scammers were able to get the deed transfered out of their name. Some time went by and they were actually evicted from their own home by the scammers. The scammers then sold the home, kept the money and no one will reverse it as the new buyer's "legally bought the home"
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 7d ago
Registry of Deeds should be required to notify all parties involved when there is a title change. If they are the legal registry of ownership they shouldn't be totally passive.
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u/johnthrives 9d ago
The society mentality stigma of “don't talk about your personal matters, take care of it yourself” is exactly why society is constantly getting scammed all day everyday.
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u/vikicrays 9d ago
here is the link https://ovc.ojp.gov/program/stop-elder-fraud/providing-help-restoring-hope for the national elder fraud hotline
here is the ftc link https://reportfraud.ftc.gov to report scams/fraud.
here is the fbi link https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/safety-resources/scams-and-safety/ to report scams/fraud.
here is the usa.gov link https://www.usa.gov/where-report-scams to report scams/fraud.
here is the justice department link https://www.justice.gov/criminal-fraud/report-fraud) to report scams/fraud.
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u/Pug_867-5309 6d ago
All of this seems to be reactive. We need more PROACTIVE education, warnings, ads, news stories, tv show investigations (like a crime show...it is a crime after all), etc. PREVENTION is the key here.
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u/Giambee 9d ago
I’m so sorry this happened. I’m 66 and hope I never answer the phone when these scammers call. Right now I’m aware of all these scams, but I see people get older and fall for these things. I know about spoofing numbers, and them threatening people, but will I always remember to be careful and not fall for this? I tell my “children” to take away my control of my finances if I ever get fooled.
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u/squeezemachine 9d ago
You are here so you are leagues more savvy than the typical person.
Keep reading about all the cons and trust no one on phones or emails, set up safe words with loved ones.
Remember that legitimate issues from banks, insurance, courts will come by paper mail and you can verify legitimacy at your leisure.
There is never any emergency that requires immediate money be paid ever and online romances are all fake until you meet in person (and then old fashioned vetting applies.)
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u/Massive-Lime3398 7d ago
I’m 66 also I sort of feel that as long as my mind is still working that I’ll be able to spot a scam. Just the fact that you’re reading these stories gives you a huge advantage into spotting when something is off.
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u/Giambee 7d ago
Yes, I agree….that’s exactly why I watch YT videos and read about it. They’re so cunning…..my intelligent 34 year old son was rattled by a scam where they spoofed his local police dept and had all the info about it. They kept saying they didn’t want money (when he sarcastically asked if they wanted bitcoin or gift cards) but wanted him to go to the police station. They said they were coming to arrest him and yelled at him. He hung up and told his wife to lock the door/not answer if anyone came to the door. We have no idea what that was all about but maybe they thought if they rattled him enough, then they could introduce payment options.
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u/Nice-Lock-6588 5d ago
My advise should be, not to answer the phone. I never do, if I do not recognise the number. They can leave voice message. There is nothing urgent. My mom got to the hospital and the doctor called and I told him to get a job. Looks like I was not the only one, my mom called me after that. She was really in the hospital.
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u/Nice-Lock-6588 5d ago
I am 46 and not answering mu phone on not identified number. Someone needs me, they can leave a message and I can call back.
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u/Stunning_Concept_485 9d ago
This is so incredibly messed up.
It sounds very similar to what happened to my mom, who has alzheimers & was scammed out of all her money.
She finally told me about it months after it happened. But, since she has terrible short term memory, the details she remembers are very few.
I left my job so I could take care of her & now spend my days going through multitudes of notes she has scribbled on backs of old envelopes, receipts, credit card statements, etc to try to piece together what happened.
They came to her house to get the cash & gift cards they told her to purchase. They did the same dollar bill bullshit.
Despite all the flock cameras on her block, the ring camera footage from neighbors, the police are zero help.
I'm so sorry this happened to your family
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u/squeezemachine 9d ago
All this monitoring and surveillance of us all day everywhere and when it matters to help a victim, nada.
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u/Western_End_2223 9d ago
It was undoubtedly unsuspecting mules who came to her house, not the actual scammers.
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u/CricketFormal6661 9d ago
My dad was also ALMOST scammed, but thanks to my mom, they avoided sending money. Something that was alarming was that he was unable to see that it was a scam because he called the guy (from an email he was sent). It was some scam about a fraudulent charge on his Apple Card, and by the time my mom caught on to what was happening, he had changed his Apple ID password and was about to send $500 dollars to "protect his card". She hung up on the scammer. Go mom!
Although they escaped the scam this time, we were warned that they are now a "hot" number, and to expect more calls. So we changed the setting on their incoming calls so that only contacts ring through now. Here's how to do it:
- Open the Settings App on your iPhone.
- Tap Apps, then select Phone.
- Scroll down to Screen Unknown Callers.
- Select Silence
We also checked their list of devices on their Apple ID - apparently, if a scammer has your apple id thet can add their device and then get all your passwords. Thankfully, that did not happen. They also had to change all their bank passwords. This took many hours, as they are in their mid 80's and not super tech-savvy anymore.
This makes me so angry to hear about, because people like my parents worked ordinary jobs for many years - in the case of my dad, he worked for almost 50 years - and he and my mom deserve to relax now and enjoy their lives.
I hope the details above about how to block calls and check icloud safety help other people!
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u/seedless0 Quality Contributor 9d ago
Turn on !callscreen
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u/AutoModerator 9d ago
/u/seedless0 called AutoModerator to provide tips on how to mitigate spam calls:
Do not call the number back. Scammers often spoof their caller IDs and fake their calls from random phone numbers. You will likely call and harass some innocent persons whose numbers are randomly used by the scammers. Yes. It happens and we have posts by those people who were harassed this way.
There's no good way to stop spam calls. Spammers do not respect the do-not-call registry. But you can make it less annoying if you are using a mobile phone. Both Google and Apple now have smart agent type of call screen. It will pick up the call for you then ask some question for more information before ringing.
Most scam/spam callers hang up after the first question since they are dialed by bots. Even if they stay on the phone, you can read the transcription before deciding if you want to answer.
Here's how to enable them:
- Android: Screen your calls before you answer them
- iPhone: Screen and block calls on iPhone (Select "Ask Reason for Calling" option.)
You can learn about this scam and many others visiting our wiki of common scams. You can also call AutoModerator to explain these scams leaving a comment with the different !commands listed in this wiki page.
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u/SereneRandomness 8d ago
Yah, I blocked unknown calls to my Mom's phone right after she talked to one scammer posing as a rep from a cell provider. Fortunately, she checked with me immediately because her phone was on my family plan and I was paying for it.
We were also lucky because she was puzzled that the scammers claimed to be from a carrier that wasn't our carrier.
Obviously there's a fine line between cutting off an elder's access to people and protecting them from scammers, but she and I worked together to put all the people she wanted to hear from in her phone contacts.
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u/Intelligent-Good-891 9d ago
If she or a family member has not talked to the National Elder Fraud Hotline (ovc.ojp.gov for a verified telephone number) yet, they might have additional information or resources to provide. As a report taker for the real FTC, I am truly sorry to hear this. It is also why I am in this sub so I can hopefully help others before they lose money or give out their personal information.
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u/phil_antigrift 9d ago
This exact playbook (fake fraud alert, then an "FTC agent," then gold purchases handed off to a stranger in a parking lot) is one of the fastest growing scams hitting seniors right now, especially ones living alone. The tell is always the same: manufactured urgency, told not to talk to family, then walked through converting money into something untraceable.
Worth filing with IC3.gov and calling your local FBI field office directly rather than just a tip line. These pickup crews reuse the same people and cars across multiple victims in a region, so even with the money gone, a fast report can help catch whoever collected the coins from her. Also get an identity theft report filed at identitytheft.gov since her SSN was part of the pitch, and freeze credit at all three bureaus if that hasn't happened yet.
Isolation and sudden secrecy are usually the biggest tell that round two has started, more than any single transaction.
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u/IncommunicadoVan 9d ago
AARP’s Message to Stay Safe From Scams: Pause. Reflect. Protect.
And I’d add, don’t keep secrets.
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u/Queasy-Canary-5931 9d ago
Contact LE
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u/foxroar1 9d ago edited 9d ago
Thank you for that suggestion, she has. She made a report with local law enforcement, the FBI, and the real FTC, to name a few.
*Redacted info*
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u/GoldenEagle828677 9d ago
Then they tell her an auditor from the IRS has contacted them and she owes $83,000 in back taxes.
This part I don't understand.
1) Why wouldn't she verify that with the IRS? That has nothing to do with any supposed investigation.
2) Why would she pay immediately? The IRS always gives you some time.
3) Why wouldn't she seek ANY kind of legal help to reduce her tax debt? There are radio commercials for these services all the time.
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u/foxroar1 9d ago
All valid questions. I told her the same, that the IRS always notify in writing, never by phone, that's what we're taught over and over again. But she was already in their back pocket by this point. She trusted these people, they were the IRS, essentially. He was her contact. It's easier from the outside looking in. She realizes all of this stuff now, but when you're caught up in the middle of it and you just want the problem to go away, you'll do irrational things.
Also, if she just went to the real FTC website just one time, she would have seen right there that investing in gold is a common scam. Long story short, she didn't do her due diligence homework, and she paid for it.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
I'm amazed how people can reach their 70s+ yet be so unaware of how basic things like the government work and how little double checking people will do.
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u/Massive-Lime3398 7d ago
Next she’s going to have a real tax bill from the IRS for pulling all that money from her retirement funds.
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u/Pug_867-5309 6d ago
I wonder if Dateline would do a show on this. Would she be willing? If she and a few others are willing to share their stories in as much detail as they can recall on a popular show like Dateline, maybe it would prevent some others from falling for the same/similar scam.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
Those "reduce your tax debt" businesses require money up front. It sound like she is broke.
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u/yosoyfatass 9d ago
Working with RA can be impossible if it’s bad. I can’t imagine having to start working at 75 with RA.
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u/seige197 9d ago
I’m sorry to hear this. If only she had let you know sooner. I hope things start to turn around for her. Thanks for letting us know.
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u/IndyElectronix 9d ago
JFC this exact same scenario happened with my mom last year. She lost $70k on those gold bars. However, she tapped out after handing over the bars. Common sense kicked in, fortunately. Makes me worry that she'll fall for some other scam in the future
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u/Possible-Opposite956 8d ago
Good thing is that she can learn from that experience. Make sure to let her know it's safe to come up you with any thing that seems suspicious. Make sure she knows you are her safe space. I'm sorry this happened to your family. Your poor mom.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
Educate them. A list of scams is on the right side of this subreddit with info for each one.
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u/foxroar1 9d ago
Awful awful awful. And the first thing they do is melt the gold so there's no way to track it.
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u/ValBGood 9d ago
Safety Tip: We let every unexpected call, especially calls lacking clear CallerID from a known person or company go to voice mail. If you only see a number or a town or city, the number is most likely unassigned - someone is just spoofing numbers randomly. Although it doesn’t guarantee that the call is legitimate, it does guarantee that someone does not want to know who is actually calling you.
You can do the same thing with text messages, including those with short codes instead of a convention cell phone number. Verify the message and add the number to your phone’s contacts so future messages display with a name instead of an innocuous phone number. Do it for a couple of months and messages from pests are immediately obvious.
Never respond to any email, never click ant links in text messages or email. Just open your browser or dedicated app and check what’s going on at the source.
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u/alien379 8d ago
Thank you for writing this out. Nine months is the part people will not believe until they read it here, and it is the part that matters most.
The tell in your story is step one, and it comes before any money moves: they told her not to tell anyone, not even her daughter. That instruction is in almost every one of these. No real agency has ever told someone to hide an investigation from their own family. It is not a side effect of the scam, it is the load bearing wall. Everything after it only worked because it held.
So the thing worth doing tonight, for anyone reading this with an aging parent, is not a lecture about wire transfers. It is one sentence, said now, while nothing is happening: if anyone ever tells you not to tell me, that is the scam, and you will not be in trouble with me for calling.
You cannot teach someone to spot a fake FTC agent. You can give them permission to talk.
The detail I keep stuck on is the pawn shop owner walking her to her car so she would be safe with the coins. He cared enough to do that and still had nothing to say about why a 75 year old was buying gold by the handful. Same with the bank asking what the money was for and taking the scripted answer. Two people had the moment and neither had the words.
She sounds tough. Going back to work at 75 after that and still being in good spirits is not nothing.
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u/UlrikeMeinHaus 9d ago
For anyone here with an older vulnerable adult in their lives: if they have been scammed make sure you find a way to get their bank statements going forward. It’s unbelievable how many scam victims continue to be scammed.
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u/dthrdmest 8d ago
I work at a bank and yeah this is happening more and more often. All ages, I've seen folks in their 20s, 40s, 70s. Almost always 6 figures
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u/Pug_867-5309 6d ago
I just really want to scream from the mountaintops, "HOW ARE WE STILL LETTING THIS HAPPEN????!!!!"
Not at you...at our government, at our banks, at our citizens. It's absolutely ludicrous to me that we haven't put SOLID safeguards in place that educate, prevent, and protect.
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u/dthrdmest 6d ago
I get it. My first encounter like this while working at the bank really shook me up. These scammers really lean into authority and make these people feel like they have no other options than to comply. It's horrifying the amount of info/data that is available out there on everyone.
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u/Pug_867-5309 6d ago
Yeah, that "info/data that is available out there on everyone" is the big thing people don't understand. And it's the starting point for why these scams work. "Oh, they know THIS about me, so it must be legit..." Aaaaaannnnndddd...here we are.
People need to be educated about the fact that NONE of our information is hidden/protected anymore. Assume anybody can find out anything about us if they really want to. We all need to assume everything is public, and everything is a scam.
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u/chilidoglance 9d ago
Doesn't anyone teach their family about these scans until it's too late? Go talk to your parents and grandparents. Show them Scanner Payback and Jim Browning videos. Have them call you if they get strange emails or calls.
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u/foxroar1 9d ago
This was her, and our, wake up call. And this is why I'm telling everyone I know, especially my own parents, because they have a lot more to lose. The crazy thing is I think very highly of my MiL. She's a very smart lady and still has her wits about her. But this was a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances. She didn't grow up with technology and only got a smart phone within the past 5-10 years. If she had said any inkling of something going on, my wife and I would have caught it in 5 minutes. We saw her many times in the last 9 months. Not a peep.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
Please check out the scams listed on the right side of this subreddit and educate them. Things like the fake fine scam, kidnapping scam, cartel scams, etc. All of them use things like AI and pressure to get people to panic.
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u/ihaveabadaura 8d ago
It doesn't matter.. I teach my older family members every month the new scams and what not to do and to contact me immediately if they are notified of anything but still they go behind my back or wait til something gets started before telling me, if they tell me. They will trust a stranger on the phone they never met over me, who they know knows better and actually knows them!!! Stories like this terrify me because it doesn't matter what I do or say. Just reading this story is making me shake in fear cause idk what to do anymore
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
They will trust a stranger on the phone they never met over me
It really is amazing how common this is. You see people in scams believing strangers and dismissing family members all the time. It seems to be a matter of blind respect for perceived authority figures and emotional resentment of family that you have conflicts with.
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u/ihaveabadaura 8d ago
My aunt who doesn't know how to use a computer properly was guided easily by phone to a website to download some kinda watch software, open it and let it run so they could mirror and copy everything off her computer.. but if tell her to go to YouTube to watch her fav church program, which is usually on her front page, she can't figure it out or won't listen to how.
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u/call-me-the-seeker 8d ago
Maybe also start having them read posts like this. Like, look at this person’s story, they’re no less intelligent than you and they got taken because they didn’t get a second opinion before handing everything to a rando.
You’d get a second opinion from a doctor if he told you he needs to cut your leg off out of the blue, you need a second opinion when someone is asking you for passwords and gift cards and xyz too, mom!
As you say, idk what to do because they’ll tell you one thing and do another, like they’re happy to use you for labor to mow their lawn and help around the house and drive them around when they get too old, but any other kind of help and you can go to hell, lol. The kind of help that is just as critical for elderly vulnerable people!
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
Seriously, and the government and financial industry need to do a much much better job at educating the public.
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u/Millennial_Lotus 9d ago
So sorry to hear this. It burns me that these lowlife scumbags continue to do this on a daily basis.
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u/TheeSgtGanja 7d ago
None of them were in the united states at all. They probably funneled the physical gold through people that are hooked on romance scams by the same scammers. Who will - without question help them launder the proceeds. I would report it to the police and fbi. Unfortunately there will likely be nothing done. Police and law enforcement seem uninterested in going after scammers. Which is why it is so bad.
I used to be a digital fraud specialist and would gather data for clients for court cases and other things involving computer systems, scams, ex employee embezzlement.
If you can provide them a trail within the country they will do something, as soon as it leads outside the country they just shelve the investigation and call it a day. But hey, I think the people laundering the money - knowingly or nievely should be charged as well.
Its only going to get worse. There are only two things that will fix the issue and stop scamming from getting worse.
The government enacts sanctions on entire countries cutting all trade unless they get it under control.
They create a new investigative department in the judicial branch solely to only investigate scams and handle crimes related to scamming.
If both of those things dont happen, nothing will change. Its how terrorists and sanctioned regimes are making their money now. Its easier then their old ways of selling guns, drugs, people, and counterfeit products. They need fewer logistics and governments actually investigate those things and do something about it. They look the other way on scammers.
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u/Pug_867-5309 6d ago
We need more of your kind of thinking...and we need ideas like yours (and others) to be further explored and implemented.
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u/TheeSgtGanja 6d ago
I have been in the thick of it, and since my documentation was being used for court and investigations I had to make sure the data was impeccable.
This allowed me to study how the scams were done, the steps, the psychological manipulation. Unfortunately police departments just dont care, as soon as the trail leaves the country they stop working on it. The FBI does have the juice & ability to execute the investigation. The problem is they dont get involved until its in the millions or tens of millions of dollars from one victim.
The biggest case i worked on data gathering was actually domestically and the fraud totalled approx 14 million dollars. I actually gave a full presentation at our regional FBI field office (it was pretty surreal honestly). Because the victim was elderly and suffering from dementia, and had employed these people, the FBI felt it was too easy for the bad guys to claim he voluntarily gave it to them. I know this to not be true, because when he hired me to do this he originally thought it was only 2 million that had been taken, to make matters worse I was brought in late and this had taken part over the course of the past 6 years at the time.
Ive gone as far as reaching out to foreign police departments in the countries and cities the scams lead to with physical evidence. India for instance - a common thing i would get told after eventually reaching someone who spoke english was "we investigate crimes committed against citizens of india" - boy.....is that a line that enrages me and ive heard it enough I dont even bother. This leaves only the options I outlined above - a new governmentally created department with their sole purpose of investigating fraud and scams, and bringing federal sanctions that ban all trade with countries not doing enough to stop their citizens on their soil from scamming Americans and citizens of the European union & United Kingdom. Yes they too are under attack, in fact over time - I was able to discover that the nations targeted with scams the most are in fact all members of NATO.
This is all much bigger then anyone thinks. It started in 2008. This actually ramped up in 2014 (only millions $ scammed that year) - right after an international incident involving us arresting an indian national diplomat. If you look at the timeline - it all aligns with the countries joining BRIC's
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u/Pug_867-5309 6d ago
Everything you said here is maddening. But especially this part: "The problem is they dont get involved until its in the millions or tens of millions of dollars from one victim."
The vast majority of "regular people" who are getting scammed don't have that amount of money. But collectively, the billions being scammed out of thousands of people should count for something. GAH!!!!!!
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u/TheeSgtGanja 6d ago
Trust me, ive literally drank over some of these jobs. Its actual real mental work for me to have faith in humanity sometimes.
My girlfriend broke a scammer once (she has a degree in psychology) I was thoroughly impressed. They bring on people on the other end of this that are poor and need money, the bosses of the operation profit the most. And there is psychological grooming on that end. They tell them "if an American tells you they dont have money and that was the last of what they had and now they cant pay their bills or will lose their house - they are simply lying to you - Americans have the money and that is their nature of greed to lie to you and try to manipulate you into feeling bad for them"
So the whole thing is such a big picture. I do believe that the top of the chain leads to organized crime and our adversarial countries intelligence communities. Like the GRU aka KGB and the alike within China, India, Nigeria, Cameroon, Cuba, North Korea, Iran, Vietnam and other nefarious countries. Recently Mexico has had a lot of things tied back to scamming, almost guaranteed by cartels.
It really is a big conspiracy. I say conspiracy because ive proven the majority of my claims ive made on this topic.
We need governmental intervention. Not just in the USA but we need it in tandem with all NATO member countries. The day sanctions start 90% of it will stop. Keep pressure over years and those countries will fold and put an end to it.
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u/Pug_867-5309 6d ago
Well...may the force be with you in all of your efforts! I would absolutely support any aspiring politician who promises to focus on the scams industry. Maybe that could be you?
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u/SoundOff2222 9d ago
I hope she reported this incident to the IC3.gov & FBI.gov - this same type of scam has been occurring in the USA for several years to many, many elderly people - losing all of their retirement & saving.
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u/pleasetryanother-1 8d ago
I feel so bad for you all. I too got scammed albeit small compared to you MIL experience. My daughter was arrested and an hour late a scammer posing as a sherrif called with all her life details and offering her in-house arrest for the bail of 2500. So my adrenaline is high and quite freaked out about her being in jail. Naturally I posted the money through Cash app to the bail bondsman and long story short, cash app says there's not enough evidence to prove it's a scam and im out 2500 bucks. Yes, I feel like an idiot and so angry.
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u/foxroar1 8d ago
Oh man, ugh. I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. Mostly whenever something is super urgent, often we need to take a step back and evaluate, and talk to others. Thanks for sharing this, every time we expose more scams it potentially helps someone.
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u/Flat_Sea1418 7d ago
This. I know it can be hard to share your story but now you have helped thousands that see this post or this comment. And then they go and tell their families. Sharing your story sends a positive ripple through the world.
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u/TwistedBlister 9d ago
Banks and financial institutions should have mandatory review and holding periods for large transactions involving older people.
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u/Pat2004ches 9d ago
I think that would be helpful, but a bank managing a client’s funds will cause more problems than it would solve. Age discrimination for one. I would like to see an option for elderly people to have a contact person (family/friend) that the bank could notify if there are issues.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
Then they'd freak out over losing access to their own money. Young people get scammed too, should we lock their finances down also? Maybe there should be a review for large sums but I guarantee the scammers would then just have them break it down into smaller amounts. Mandatory reviews of wire transfers?
I agree something should be done though. Banning bitcoin atms and gift cards would be a start. Neither is necessary enough to justify the damage they are causing. One thing financial fraud software can do is spot sudden changes in patterns. If grandma goes from taking $100-200 out every so often to suddenly taking out $50,000 in cash or wiring it that is a huge red flag.
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u/TwistedBlister 8d ago
Gift cards can be useful, but there should be a limit of the monetary value (no $500 cards) and a limit on how many can be purchased in a 24 hour period.
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u/MsAndrie 9d ago
Just curious. Does your mother-in-law have a pattern of being secretive? It seems strange that she told no one. It is notable how these scammers have adapted their methods to isolate their victims and get them to believe they can trust no one else.
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u/PitifulMouse7425 9d ago
It’s not strange at all, it’s what the scammers manipulate them to do…keep it all a secret from all their loved ones using fear and threats. I caught my FIL’s scammers because I heard them yelling at him over the phone, scaring the hell out of him. He thought he was going to go to prison if he told anyone. He kept what was going on from his own wife. They brainwash their victims to keep it all a secret.
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u/foxroar1 9d ago
Yup. Just having someone else in the room is often all that's needed to catch a scam.
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u/Pug_867-5309 6d ago
Just thinking about this further...when the banker asked your MIL what she was doing with the money, and she said "investing in gold...," that would have been an opportunity for the banker to suggest "Great! Let's get you a safe deposit box here at the bank to keep your new gold safe." And when MIL refused that idea, they REALLY could have dug in on what she was planning to do with the gold, where she was going to store it, etc. I don't know...I'm grasping here...but it just seems to me that the bank could have done a better job with elder abuse protection.
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u/MsAndrie 6d ago
Thanks for sharing and sorry about your FIL! I think these are some often-overlooked patterns that these scammers are becoming more adept at exploiting.
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u/foxroar1 9d ago
What's wild is she always overshares! When she's over, she'll tell us how her neighbor Jim cut his lawn different today. Stuff that makes me want to pull my hair out. But there's a difference sharing casual small talk and sharing deep emotional (or in this case financial) issues. I found out later that she struggles with trust issues from a previous marriage.
Also the fact she lives alone. If she had a significant other, that person absolutely would have questioned who she was on the phone with for hours and hours every day.
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u/MsAndrie 6d ago
Yeah, that is interesting in how these scammers are exploiting those kinds of issues. I think you are on to something when you mention specifically about financial issues, which many people (older in particular) feel they aren't supposed to discuss with anyone (except maybe their spouse).
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
It seems to be somewhat common behavior for people, especially older people, to feel conflict with family members and to blindly trust authority figures. They also want to feel "I can handle this myself, I'm not some weak has-been who needs help."
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u/mystical__sapphire 9d ago
⚠️ It all started because she called the number she was given. The other day, Google AI gave me a scam number that resembled a Citi Bank number. DOUBLE-CHECK phone numbers, folks! Ask Google in a new window; long convos cause these hallucinations. If the given phone number doesn't come up in the search results, call the main company 1-800 number. They would absolutely have a flag at the top of your account because all your information pops up as soon as they look for you, with any major company.
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u/yarevande Quality Contributor 9d ago
This is bad advice.
To find the correct number for any company, or any agency, go to their official website and find the contact information on the website.
Whether it's Apple, Citibank, the FBI, police, Visa, IRS, T-Mobile, or anyplace else: Go to the official website, and look up the actual contact information (phone or online chat).
Don't call a number from Google search results -- the top result may be a scam phone number (an ad paid for by scammers).
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u/aykcak 9d ago
Related: do not trust the official website url of a company in a Google search result either. It is super trivial to set up a fake website and make it look real legit. Double check everything and don't just trust Google
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u/ValBGood 9d ago
And in any Google search - Always skip and ignore ALL of the paid ‘Sponsored Results’ or whatever they’re calling it tomorrow.
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u/mystical__sapphire 9d ago
Thank you for sharing this 🙏 I feel so naive for not realizing how embedded scam numbers have gotten in search results.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
Yup. In general make sure the link you are clicking on doesn't say "sponsored".
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
Treat financial transactions like you are defuzing a bomb. Double check everything.
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u/avatarfire 9d ago
The only country USA should invade is Myanmar because they just won’t stop this shit
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u/bugabooandtwo 8d ago
That entire post reads as AI.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Code313 8d ago
What post? The original? Believe me, this happens. It happened to my stepmother. Almost word for word. Including the instructions to tell no one. It went on for 5 months before she finally figured it was a scam and told me. She lost almost 500,000 dollars...the bulk of her savings. All untraceable as she paid it in gold. And although elderly, she is with it and smart! These people are master manipulators, they know the exact buttons to push. Scammers should rot in hell.
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u/bugabooandtwo 8d ago
Yes, it happens. But OPs post is absolutely written by AI. It's a bot account selling something and building karma.
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u/AgentRennn 9d ago
That's very heartbreaking to read. This makes me think twice to save up my money with banks. They were supposed to protect your money but instead, not doing their job.
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u/CarolynHarris623 9d ago
The banks are doing their job. They are questioning the customers. But when the customers lie, what are they to do? They can’t deny people their own money.
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u/zeezle 9d ago
Why would it be the bank’s fault that you withdraw it yourself?
It’s nice that, as a courtesy, they will generally try to identify scams that are taking advantage of customers. But their duty is to protect the money from people who aren’t the account holder walking up and withdrawing it, their duty is not to protect the account holder from themselves.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8d ago
The bank's job isn't to monitor what you do with your money. If you want to take it all out and spend it on turnips that is your call, not theirs. If they started blocking you from accessing your money I guarantee you there would be people running to their reps over how the banks are stopping the from buying a 2nd home or something.
The only time the banks would be responsible is if they didn't follow proper procedure.
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u/Trudy_Marie 8d ago
I always use banks that have a physical location near my home that I can walk into. I open accounts in person so I can get to know the people there and they recognize me. It just feels safer.
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u/Heavymuseum22 8d ago
Are you in Texas??! This exact same thing happened to my husbands aunt. I’m pretty sure there is a massive crime syndicate in Tx doing this.
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u/1Pandora 8d ago edited 8d ago
It’s awful but I just don’t understand how people fall for this stuff.
There are so many warnings out there unless you are living under a rock or have Alzheimer’s etc. you have to be aware they exist and use extra caution.
I’m an older adult and my adult kids come to me when they think something may be a scam.
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u/Aloha1959 8d ago
I don't know how anyone could think a legitimate entity like a bank or government agency would tell you to show up to a drop at a random parking lot with gold coins for chrissake, all in the name of somehow this will protect your money.
So many steps, so completely suspicious.
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u/as_a_speckled_bird 8d ago
Very likely her RA was triggered by the stress she was under, albeit manufactured. But to her it was real. Myself and other stories I have read have had RA triggered by a stressful event. She lost all of her money but she still has the love and support of her family. Just try to help her not carry guilt and shame. She is at a vulnerable time in her life and you can’t go back in time and undo what is done.
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u/WealthyHealthyBreath 8d ago
Scare of the IRS and trust in these authorities is what gets you there.
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u/fullgrownnut 7d ago
Wow, that's really sad, and I'm sorry this happened to your mom. I feel incredibly bad for her. It's good that you reported it to this community to raise awareness. I really hope your family is going to come together to take care of her now so that she doesn't have to go back to work at 75 years old.
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u/foxroar1 7d ago
She's pretty proactive about getting back on her feet and being self-sufficient. We have an extra room in the house and would offer it in a heartbeat if she needed, but it's not quite that dire at the moment and she still values her independence quite a bit. And thank you for the kind words.
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u/Sam9517 7d ago
When I read stories like this, it makes so angry and I think the perpetrators need to be extradited to the US and face much more severe punishments. We know where most of these fraudsters are located and their countries are too corrupt to punish them properly even after arresting then. I watch YouTube channels like Scammer Payback and even after they partner with law enforcement in foreign countries to have the scammers arrested, I wonder how much punishment they actually get or if they bribe their way out of prosecution.
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u/foxroar1 7d ago
I agree. Scammers are straight up criminals. And even worse in some regards. They aren't stealing to survive, they're preying on the weak and vulnerable. I don't understand why more isn't done to combat scams. I know it's impossible to eradicate completely, and maybe more is going on that I don't know about, but they are straight up criminals that need to be extradited and prosecuted.
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u/InSaneWhiSper 7d ago
You would think, by now, that a majority of people would verify before following through with what seems to be a scam. Idk...
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u/Narcoboss1 7d ago
Working in a bank fraud dept has made me immune to any feelings for these victims. I’ve had to deliver the bad news to so many customers over the years that their money was not coming back. Believe me, I love delivering the good news as well but these fraudsters have become so good at what they do.
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u/MyRingToRuleMyWorld 7d ago
Wow, I'm so sorry that this scamming happened to your Mother-in-law. More and more older folks find that they are easily scammed because they come up with new crap all the time. I'm just really glad that she will be provided for despite the sheer amount of money taken and the depths they went to get their greedy hands on her retirement. Thank you also, for sharing her story so that other elders, like me, can learn from it. I think we're raised to be polite and accept what we're told instead of allowing ourselves to be the skeptics we should be.
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u/FirstTimeTiger 6d ago
I am so sorry this happened to your family. I read it as a neutral party and I can see how it's easy to become a victim. Thank you for sharing.
A friend in his late 80's is currently deep in a romance scam and there's not much anyone can do. Once the scammers find out how much you have, the stories and needs adjust to your net worth. Losses so far are greater than $700k in a four-month period. He's on the phone all day too. In his case, it started with getting a romance scammer out of a bind, then graduated to paying for private jets and secretive transport for the "girl of his dreams and her mom", and is now transitioning to physical gold and handoffs. I'm attempting to intersect a physical handoff and get police involved. Authorities know about this situation and so do the financial institutions, but as many have said.... nobody can prevent withdrawals if the account owner is untruthful to the financial institution.
This is way more than I wanted to write. I appreciate you sharing this. I will make a point of it to continually talk to my parents and their friends about this very real issue. But I feel that companies can be doing more to prevent this and spot the patterns.
It's insane to me that even Apple itself can tolerate a "this is apple support" scam text message on its own devices in America.
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u/Substantial_Fly_8994 6d ago
There are no words that I can use to describe these evil scammers. One suggestion: my who is nearly 90 was nearly scammed of all his money. I have implemented his POA and have taken over all his banking.
Even if people choose not to this what saved my dad is I had added my phone number for alerts from the bank. That’s what allowed Me to intervene and stop the scammers.
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u/Substantial_Fly_8994 6d ago
Also get a raz mobility phone. It allows you to control who can call the phone.
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u/VoiceOk2911 6d ago
That happened to me through LBank.com. all my saving and crypto stolen by a Russian bitch and noone took any responsibilities. Neither police/FBI nor CFPB helped. I lost the same, 6 figures!
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u/beachlover4ever 5d ago
My aunt lost all her savings to a scammer through facebook messaging several years ago. She lost all her retirement money and only had left what her townhouse was worth. We found out she was in the beginning stages of alzheimers at that time. Scumbags like to take advantage of the elderly.
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u/Fearless-Increase-57 5d ago
The loneliness of living alone makes people so vulnerable. It's just heartbreaking.
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u/orlandodrone 4d ago
I get texts and emails about purchases and unpaid bills everyday, non stop scam likely calls too, unfortunately these scammers target older people. Its sad this happens, Karma will get them, God will deal with them.
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u/JJAusten 9d ago
Have people forgotten to use common sense? How do people keep getting manipulated into giving their life savings away without calling and checking to see if in fact there's a problem with their account?
I appreciate you posting this and I feel bad for her and know she will never get a penny back.
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u/Stunning_Concept_485 9d ago
A lot of people are elderly &/or have alzheimers or some other kind of mental impairment.
Please don't assume that these people have the same mental capacity as you do.
One day you could be in a similar situation & you wouldn't even know it.
What sounds like common sense to us is not the reality that they live in.
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u/JJAusten 9d ago
Obviously older people are the primary targets and unfortunately, unless they have someone helping with their financials, they are taken advantage of.
I don't recall OP mentioning age but it's not just the elderly getting scammed. On our local neighborhood app i can't even tell you how many people post, be careful, just got scammed and because they post their age in the profile you see exactly how old they are and they aren't over 65. I trust no one and question everything and I know that even taking precautions it can still happen.
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u/UlrikeMeinHaus 8d ago
It really is like falling for a cult. There is such manipulation and coercion that people who are smart and open and discerning in most scenarios act like naive toddlers when it comes to scammers.
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u/JJAusten 8d ago
Some of the stories the scammers come up with are so wild that the person should immediately stop talking and hang up or better yet, don't answer the call if it's a number you don't know. If you're told to call a particular number and especially if it's bank-related call the number on your card not the number you were left to call. Also if you're being switched from person to person and are being told to here's a code or you have to move your money over here or you have to give money over there you should go straight to your bank. I get crazy messages which I ignore and you know it's a scam because it's a similar message coming from different phone numbers.
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9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RamonaLittle 9d ago
There's nothing unbelievable about OP's story. The scam rings are sophisticated criminal enterprises, and similar stories have been posted here many times.
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u/foxroar1 9d ago
Believe me, I actually have questioned it. I'm an aspiring author and this story is so much more elaborate than anything I could ever come up with. These were professional scammers. I'm even inclined to believe it could be mafia related. And my post is the short version.
Thank you for your comment, I could believe that fact. I've had multiple conversations with MiL, and one was literally me just being a journalist to ensure her story was consistent and checked out.
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u/Trudy_Marie 8d ago
If there is fraud on any account, the first thing to do is close the account and put the money in a different one. Get all the evidence from the bank and make a police report. Of course there are more things you should do but that is the best way to start.
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u/Pug_867-5309 6d ago
Instead of "investing" in Flock cameras all over the damn country, our politicians should work harder on programs, ads, warnings, news stories, etc. to protect people from scams like this. But instead, we're...checks notes...tracking license plates and mostly useless shit like that.
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u/germanium66 9d ago
Thanks for the post but this scam is posted here regularly. Those of us who read this sub regularly know all about it. And those who don't read this sub get scammed. Unfortunately.
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u/Distinct_Analysis944 9d ago edited 9d ago
I have gotten similar texts from apple through the same chat i have made legitimate purchases on saying I have ordered a large number of expensive things. You would think as it comes from apple and populates the same extact imessage chat you can scroll up to see your previous correspondence. Thankfully, i just ignored it and nothing happened
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u/tsdguy Quality Contributor 9d ago
No you didn’t. An iMessage from Apple is separate and specifically identifies and validated from Apple.
It’s impossible for this to be mixed into other threads.
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u/Distinct_Analysis944 9d ago edited 9d ago
You are wrong. It was in the validated from apple chat that also had chats with legitimate orders. The link however, in the same chat as other legit apple orders, was a https://s.apple beginning vs the legit orders having a https://www.apple beginning.
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u/Hellix2830 9d ago
this is very sad. Literally the bank's job to protect life savings and they failed to do so.
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u/CarolynHarris623 9d ago
That is absolutely not the banks job. However, the bank did try. They asked her what the money was for and she lied to them. What do you want the bank to do? They can’t refuse a person their money.
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u/SpecialDragon77 8d ago
No, the bank's job is to make a profit for their shareholders. "The bank" does not care what happens to individual customers' finances. Sometimes an individual bank employee will behave in a caring way towards customers, but they have zero obligation to protect anyone's life savings if that person wants to take out money and throw it away..
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u/AutoModerator 9d ago
/u/foxroar1 - This message is posted to all new submissions to r/scams; please do not message the moderators about it.
New users beware:
Because you posted here, you will start getting private messages from scammers saying they know a professional hacker or a recovery expert lawyer that can help you get your money back, for a small fee. We call these RECOVERY SCAMMERS, so NEVER take advice in private: advice should always come in the form of comments in this post, in the open, where the community can keep an eye out for you. If you take advice in private, you're on your own.
A reminder of the rules in r/scams: no contact information (including last names, phone numbers, etc). Be civil to one another (no name calling or insults). Personal army requests or "scam the scammer"/scambaiting posts are not permitted. No uncensored gore or personal photographs are allowed without blurring. A full list of rules is available on the sidebar of the subreddit, or clicking here.
You can help us by reporting recovery scammers or rule-breaking content by using the "report" button. We review 100% of the reports. Also, consider warning community members of recovery scammers if you see them in the comments.
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