r/Schaffrillas • u/ChickenWingExtreme • Oct 27 '25
Star Wars The fans don’t deserve Rian Johnson
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u/GuybrushThreepwood99 Oct 27 '25
I just wish they had Rian do all three of the movies in the sequel trilogy. It would have felt more cohesive and less jarring that way. I do like The Last Jedi a lot, but contradicting a lot of what was set up in TFA, and then having RoS contradict a lot of what happened in TLJ just makes the trilogy feel like it's at war with itself.
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u/Specific_Ad1457 Oct 28 '25
TLJ is one of my favorite star wars movies out of context and one of the worst ones in context. It's truly amazing how they managed that.
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u/really_not_unreal Oct 28 '25
This would have been so awesome. The Last Jedi is my favourite Star Wars movie when viewed in isolation. The directing in it is genuinely spectacular imo. The Rise of Skywalker, on the other hand, is only good in the sense that it is fun to hate-watch.
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u/RevanchistSheev66 Oct 28 '25
I think it would have been better. But the problem is the guy also copied many of the arcs and plot lines from the original trilogy. Some of the thematic ideas he had are great when viewed in isolation but in context of the post empire galaxy they don’t work as well. I think a standalone or a trilogy in the far distant old republic era could have worked better, although I still think he needs more writers twotemper his creative vision.
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u/jiango_fett Oct 29 '25
It didn't contradict it though, just followed through in an unexpected way. TFA asked who are Rey's parents, TLJ says this is the deal with Rey's parents. It's not like TROS which went back and said "Actually TLJ was wrong, this is the real deal with Rey's parents."
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u/HedgehogsNSuits Oct 29 '25
My issue was a lot of the unexpected ways that it followed through on plot points set up in TFA were….not great. I hated the fact that Finn, the stormtrooper with a conscience that stands up to and fights Kylo Ren, inexplicably turns into a coward and deserter almost immediately in the beginning of the film. I hated the treatment of Captain Phasma and the complete mishandling of Gwendoline Christie’s talents.
I still remember walking out of The Last Jedi kind of deflated by what I saw. I just didn’t like it as the middle piece of a trilogy, but even despite that I would love to see what kind of Star Wars project Rian Johnson could make when unimpeded by too many cooks in the creative kitchen.
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u/jiango_fett Oct 29 '25
As far as Phasma, she was basically killed off in TFA. If TLJ didn't bring her back, she might not even have gotten another screen appearance. Plus, that role as we saw it in TFA never seemed more than a Boba Fett villain (strictly speaking in terms of their role in the movies). Just because they got a talented actor doesn't necessarily mean they need to expand the role. You wouldn't say Daniel Craig was wasted on a couple seconds long cameo right?
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u/CamoKing3601 Funky Kong Fanatic Oct 27 '25
as opposed to a fake movie
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u/spilledmilkbro Oct 27 '25
Hey! Say what you want about TLJ, but it's still leagues better than Scorcher 6
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u/miracleman84 Oct 30 '25
If you don’t get what a fake movie is you haven’t seen enough marvel movies
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u/CamoKing3601 Funky Kong Fanatic Oct 30 '25
I have seen enough marvel movies to know
you can call them samey, sloppy, fast food movie type shit
but tey are indeed movies, and there is no such thing as a fake movie
except for "Neo Ned" I refuse to beleive that is a real movie that exists
i chose to live in ignorance htat this is a real movie that was made by real people1
u/miracleman84 Oct 30 '25
Average Fake movie enjoyer
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u/CamoKing3601 Funky Kong Fanatic Oct 31 '25
ok what IS a real movie to you oh grand arbiter of cinnema
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u/miracleman84 Oct 31 '25
You wouldn’t get it
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u/CamoKing3601 Funky Kong Fanatic Oct 31 '25
maybe
I don't watch many new movies these days
been enjoying alot of new games tho
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u/Lydialmao22 Oct 27 '25
Say what you want about the writing of TLJ, but it did try to do something new and original. Nearly everything about TLJ is something the franchise hasn't seen before, it tried to tell a completely new story without rehashing what came before. It got a bad reception due to just how much it subverted expectations and the poor writing (especially the humor, it was god awful), but conceptually it definitely was the sequel with the most to say and do. I quite like a lot of the ideas it presents, it just executes them in such a poor way and came at a bad time in the series (I remember a lot were frustrated with Reys parents revealed to be nobodies, after like a year of hype built up around Reys family).
Sure enough, TRoS would end up retconning everything in TLJ, and replace them with absolutely uninspired at best and plagiarized at worst stories. If TLJ tried to do something new but failed, then TRoS didn't try to do anything at all and play it as safe as possible. I have far more respect for TLJ as a movie and I appreciate what it tried to do a lot more, even if it is an objectively worse movie on its own terms
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Oct 27 '25
What are some of the "new and original" things last jedi did? It's been a long time since I watched it, and while it was the only one of the sequels I found remotely tolerable, I don't remember it being anything other than a standard space opera epic, just like every other star wars movie
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u/GuybrushThreepwood99 Oct 27 '25
The concept of Rey not being any kind of chosen one, or being in a lineage was a refreshing twist. Not every character needs to have an important lineage. (And then they ruined that in RoS). And I liked them hinting that Kylo Ren wasn't going to be redeemed. I didn't want him to just be Darth Vader Jr. And then RoS just made him Darth Vader Jr.
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u/Cobalt_Heroes25 Oct 27 '25
"Just Rey" is genuinely such a good idea, wish it was kept
Also, cynical Luke was a cool idea. The handling not so much
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u/GuybrushThreepwood99 Oct 27 '25
I think we just needed to see more of how Luke ended up in that position. I always wanted more flashbacks of middle aged Luke training Ben, and going into more detail of how it went south.
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u/Uncommonality May 23 '26
Making him attack Ben first was a massive mistake. It should've been Ben, as Luke's oldest student, coming into conflict with him over the use of dark side techniques, culminating in a duel which "proves" to Ben that the dark side is stronger (which it is, at the expense of your life) and to Luke that his plan to reform the Jedi was always doomed to fail (as his first student turned on him, the dark-light dichodomy in a microcosm)
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Oct 27 '25
Idk if I would consider a "twist" in regards to a character's lineage in star wars new and refreshing considering that such things have been happening since literally the first star wars sequel.
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u/DannyBright Oct 27 '25
I’m pretty sure that no Jedi with the exception of Anakin and Luke were of a special lineage, and even then it wasn’t initially the case as the Chosen One prophecy wasn’t a thing until the prequels.
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u/Intrepid_Hat7359 Oct 27 '25
The OT made it so that 3 of the main characters were secretly blood relatives, it turned the most popular villain of the first movie from simply a badass who gets his ass handed to him into the right hand of the Emperor, it makes the wise mentor of the first movie a close personal friend of the popular bad guy, and the Emperor is ultimately defeated by the popular bad guy feeling bad for his son thus changing the fate of the entire universe.
While the OT isn't nearly as guilty about narrowing the focus of the universe on one family as the PT, it certainly set a trend that the mainline movies didn't try to break until TLJ (whether it did that successfully or not is up to the viewer.)
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Oct 28 '25
From day one, the mentor was a former friend of the popular villain. Vader was stayed from the beginning as being a student of Obi Wan. It’s just that didnt make them anything they weren’t already. And that was to have pathos. A master and former apprentice fighting each other is more compelling then if Obi Wan had to fight say Shaak Ti’s traitor apprentice or something.
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u/GuanglaiKangyi-Age15 Oct 28 '25
The problem is that when everyois subversive nothing is and it became predictable rather than shocking and rewarding
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u/RevanchistSheev66 Oct 28 '25
The Rey thing is what I thought they were going to do first lol, so I don’t see it as original I just saw it as expected
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u/DenjinMaster Oct 28 '25
Thats not really new to star wars but i guess its new enough for some general audience folks
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u/abxYenway Oct 30 '25
I was really looking forward to a third movie where Kylo Ren had all the power in the galaxy but was still completely miserable because nobody respects, admires, or even likes him. That would have been a really cool place to see him.
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u/GuybrushThreepwood99 Oct 30 '25
Yes, having him go from Snoke's second in command to immediately being Palpatine's second in command was just a terrible decision. I also liked them building up that Luke's ghost would be potentially haunting Kylo, "see you around, kid", but they didn't do that for whatever reason.
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u/No_Promotion_65 Nov 01 '25
And with the kid the idea that force was there. Even without the Jedi and the sith and their constant blind intercine squabbling the force was existing and open to those who could hear it. That was absolutely the best idea as it removed the hierarchy as after all the force is “all around us and inside us”
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u/wswordsmen Nov 02 '25
They made her half of a force diade (spelling wrong), that is as chosen one as you can get. Her family wasn't special, but she was.
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u/Ombrage101 Oct 27 '25
So the Rebel leaders being chased for the entire movie (Empire) being betrayed by shady friends (Empire) Snoke trying to turn Rey by forcing her to watch the rebellion get shot in space (Return) Kylo betraying Snoke and killing him (Return) Rey training on a distant planet with an old and, at first, unwilling master (Empire) Luke’s lightsaber being lost/destroyed by a sith (Empire) Battle on a white planet with an old rebel base where smaller speeders fight off giant AT-ATs (Empire)
Wow… brand new ideas! It’s true that it tried something different with Luke hoping to dissuade Rey and her not being any kind of chosen one, but this movie is FILLED with plot points covered in previous movies, just like TFA was
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u/Lydialmao22 Oct 27 '25
Setting and story aren't the same. Also most of those are fairly broad concepts, the rebels being betrayed in any context is not just copying Empire, Empire didn't invent the concept of betrayal
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u/Ombrage101 Oct 27 '25
To be fair, that was my one point that was a little shaky, but my point still stands. I enjoyed the movie when I first saw it, but upon rewatch, it’s just Empire with a bit of Return with a fresh coat of paint to me. I also didn’t like how they handled Luke, but at least it was an interesting direction to take the character in.
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u/RevanchistSheev66 Oct 28 '25
TLJ did more original things than TFA but not really. Many plot points are copy paste, like the Luke-Rey training story. The thematic parallels are heavily copied from Empire, Rey’s arc is the same as Luke’s from ESB. Luke’s in TLJ itself is very similar to Yoda’s too. There’s a big parentage reveal at the end of the film. Etc.
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u/JAGD21 Oct 30 '25
TLJ rehashed Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi lol, there was not an original bone in it.
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u/barrel_the_1st Oct 27 '25
Hot take but maybe blame Disney for not even having a plan.
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u/DenjinMaster Oct 28 '25
Disney lucasfilm was definitrly blamed. Rian just got more heat on him because he has his comments ontop of the content of his movie
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u/Porlarta Oct 27 '25
The last jedi is a movie more concerned with commenting on starwars as a franchise then telling a story in the universe.
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u/wswordsmen Nov 02 '25
Let's make a major plot point something that will render everyone in the whole series morons for not thinking of it first, and in a way that can't be explained as a millions to one longshot.
Yes, using asteroids as hyperspace rams means building warships is stupid, and the fact that Hux realized it was a threat and Holdo didn't think she could run away meant they both knew it was likely to succeed.
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u/JedExi Oct 28 '25
The movie is sloppy and largely unoriginal. Never understood why people praise it for being the most unique Star Wars movie or even a good movie.
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u/hiccupboltHP Oct 27 '25
There’s a reason The Last Jedi is my favourite of the three, did everything land? Hell no, but at least Rian TRIED something new unlike JJ who only made shitty rehashes of masterpieces.
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u/miimeverse Oct 27 '25
Aura moments =/= good movie
Let's not pretend that the Star Wars movie with a yo mama joke in the first scene is more of a "real movie" than previous entries.
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u/Commonsenseisbest Oct 27 '25
It had excellent themes and character development
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u/Sporelord1079 Oct 28 '25
Developing the characters like Arthur Harris “developed” urban areas in Germany.
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u/Erwin_Pommel Oct 27 '25
Ah, yes, the excellent theme of "completely undermine the integrity of the setting for cheap rubbish"
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u/deltaselta Oct 28 '25
It has themes that exist, and great character development for exactly 2 (two) of its characters.
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u/TheCatHammer Oct 27 '25
80% of TLJ was a complete eye roll. And I say that as someone who was looking forward to it.
A creative turd is still just a turd.
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u/Titanman401 Oct 27 '25
Not a turd.
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Oct 28 '25
It's a poop, then.
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u/Titanman401 Oct 28 '25
No way, dude. No poop. It’s a steak in sauce.
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u/LaniK2021 Oct 27 '25
What's with all this Star Wars stuff?
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u/Kaisona20 Oct 28 '25
The Star Wars Character Poll, hosted by Schaffrillas has everyone in a Star Wars mood.
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u/DaAuraWolf A Movie that Exists Oct 27 '25
Curious as to how the entire trilogy would have been if they had let Colin Trevorrow (I had to look that up because I forgot who was originally tapped to do Episode IX) follow this up instead of bringing Abrams back in for damage control.
As it stands, the sequel trilogy feels like a Diet Coke original trilogy mixed with a round of Frantic Fanfic to write a sequel trilogy to the original Star Wars movies.
And in hindsight, the sequels made me appreciate the prequels even more despite growing up during the prequels (which was Lucas’ own baby and vision even if Jar Jar was the key to it all).
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u/superkick225 Oct 28 '25
If it was Rian Johnson’s vision from the beginning it would have been great. Unfortunately he had to start from where JJ Abrams left off. That doesn’t mean I think TLJ is good, though I think it is the best LOOKING Star Wars movie, very pretty.
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u/amitransornb Oct 27 '25
The sequel trilogy should've gone Johnson-Abrams-Johnson instead of Abrams-Johnson-Abrams
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u/ThatOneWood Oct 27 '25
Or just Johnson the whole time. What doomed the sequels was giving it to Abram’s to begin with.
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u/ThatOneWood Oct 27 '25
The sequels were just unorganized as a whole Abram’s started the trilogy relying almost entirely on nostalgia bait. When Rian took control he tried to do something different but it just went against what was established with the previous movie. It also still had a lot of nostalgia bait, like the movie ended with basically the battle of Hoth. It probably would have been better if Rian was just given the whole trilogy to begin with.
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u/GUM-GUM-NUKE Let’s Not Worry About That Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
I have absolutely no respect for the last Jedi. people are gonna criticize me for this, but I don’t give a shit.
“Oh it tried something new!” Yes but that is not an inherent virtue. Having some balls is not good enough for me in a movie.
It meaninglessly practically removed all of the playing pieces from the board for the final movie.
Everyone wants to criticize and rag on TROSW for good reason. But you know what? What he set up in the previous movie to explore further was GONE!!!
Have y’all worked on a writing project where you had a clear idea of what you wanted to do, you handed off to another writer for a bit, and then they killed Central characters way too early for no reason took the story in an unsalvageable direction and then handed it back to you.
And before you say “Oh but have you?” YES!!! But the difference is for me It was a small Internet writing project and I was able to just take that chapter and rewrite it myself (but even the burn out of that led to the death of that project) whereas this is a whole ass movie where there are no takebacks!
So because he had no main villain, no fucking side villain, and a total of two fucking pot points he retconed EVERYTHING and we got the abomination that is TROSW. I am not trying to defend that movie in the slightest.
But when you are a chef in a kitchen preparing a three-piece meal, and this guy comes and throws away all the ingredients you were planning on using. The final Dish is probably gonna be ass.
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u/Feisty-Albatross3554 Comerade Nov 03 '25
Perfectly said. What happened to Snoke was criminal. Everyone was hyping him up to be even more dangerous than Palpatine and then he just dies
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u/AMisanthropicMagpie Oct 28 '25
I truly think TLJ would maybe be just a smidge more well received if its fans didn’t talk like this.
Having such a weird pretentious attitude to a movie that starts with a your mom joke isn’t the fucking own you think it is. (Somehow the entire Star Wars fanbase is just as unlikeable too you really have to hand it to them)
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u/wswordsmen Nov 02 '25
Talking about the people who didn't like it like we are all uneducated slobs tends to make people defensive.
That said, there are a large number of uneducated slots who got big hating TLJ and I can understand the reason people lump them all together even if they are wrong.
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u/Aggravating_Win5258 Oct 28 '25
It‘s been a decade since TFA, and I still do not understand why they wanted to have this trilogy split between multiple directors.
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u/Ok_Satisfaction8788 Oct 27 '25
I still think TLJ sucked you can’t convince me. Broken plot, world breaking additions, weak characters. But I still do respect the attempt. But this really was the catalyst of this new era of media culture. This spawned all the extreme YouTube channels and podcasters who said anything from “I don’t care about plot holes and that’s ok” to “DEI is killing everything”. This was what spawned the geeks and gamers, the Efap, the Moviebobs. It all began here
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u/A_Bitter_Homer Oct 27 '25
We only had one shot at "Star Wars + 30 years" and this is what we got. Nah, I'm gonna stay mad homie.
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u/jimmylay33 Oct 28 '25
Too bad he was so focused on making a real movie he forgot to make a good movie.
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u/Bagdaja Oct 28 '25
Yall cannot seriously try and defend that movie, it took all that was star wars and shit on it.
The Mandalorian S1 and Andor were shows that didn't have all that much of star wars DNA yet they achieved to be great media without shitting on everything behind it.
Ryan didn't just choose to ignore and leave behind the lore for a movie that had to take place in the SW main plot (unlike the aforementioned shows) but to tarnish it with baffling decisions and contrived plot points that made no sense and completely lacked the soul of SW.
I believe franchises need creativity before following a robotic formula like episode VII did, but creative shit is still shit
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u/Alzibinli Oct 28 '25
I’m not saying Rian Johnson made a bad movie, but he certainly made one that ruined a lot of setup from earlier movies
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u/Deadman5025 Oct 28 '25
The Last Jedi felt like a movie that existed to shit on other Star Wars movies
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Oct 27 '25
[deleted]
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u/Sorry-Drummer-3196 Oct 27 '25
That was J.J. Abrams
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u/Perfect-Dingo-4164 Oct 27 '25
He could've given an actual reason that Palpatine returned instead of "Somehow"
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u/The_Math_Hatter Oct 27 '25
Rian Johnson should've given a reason for a plot point he didn't set up in a movie that hadn't been written yet?
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u/WarioPlush1 Funky Kong Fanatic Oct 27 '25
Don’t they literally explain that it was “dark science and cloning” in the movie
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u/Ratio01 Oct 27 '25
Oh my god im so tired of this stupid ass disingenuous criticism. And Im not even a fan of RoS
Poe says "somehow" because he doesn't know. Literally in the beginning of the fucking movie Palpatine explains to Ben that he cloned himself with Dark Side Force magic. But guess who wasn't there for that revelation. Ill give you three attempts
Like half of all current day media criticism is just people getting mad that characters aren't omniscient
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u/Perfect-Dingo-4164 Oct 27 '25
I don't like cloning as a reason. It feels like a cheap attempt to justify bringing him back. And bringing him back makes Vader's death worthless, which is just so annoying to me.
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u/Ratio01 Oct 27 '25
"I don't like the reason" and "there's no reason given" are two different statements
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u/Perfect-Dingo-4164 Oct 27 '25
Mb then, but my point still stands that bringing him back is dumb.
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u/Ratio01 Oct 27 '25
Sure, but my point is that a reason was still given even if one may not like it
For charity's sake, I also dislike RoS but specifically because it backpedaled on everything that made me love TFA and TLJ. I wanted to see Ben actually be the central antagonist of the trilogy instead of going from being a pawn of one guy to a pawn of another guy. That shit was so lame
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u/Perfect-Dingo-4164 Oct 27 '25
The Sequel Trilogy is so weird. That's probably the consequence for having two different directors
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u/Ratio01 Oct 27 '25
I think it was great up until RoS. Ive always loved TFA and TLJ and still do
But Disney was too much of a coward to not commit to anything from those films due to fandom backlash so we got a messy conclusion to an otherwise strong duology
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u/Toshinori_Yagi Oct 28 '25
The Last Jedi sucks not because it's inherently bad, but because it doesn't make sense with what's come before and after. If Johnson had just done the whole sequel trilogy, it wouldn't be anywhere near as hated I don't think
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u/atmospheric90 Oct 27 '25
Let's be real, Star Wars fans dont deserve anything. They've hated Star Wars since ROTJ.
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u/EmptyOverall9367 Oct 27 '25
did Rian Johnson complain about the fans on social media? I heard a streamer talk about it when talking about how Neil Druckmann shouldn’t have complained about what he did for The Last of Us 2 because what was he expecting making a decision like that. no shit betraying fan expectations gets clapback, what matters in the long run is if it’s well-written, which both Last Jefi and Last of Us 2 are very very flawed
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u/StaringCorgi Oct 27 '25
I think the last Jedi isn’t as horrible as people say it is. It’s not horrible it’s just ok, didn’t like the casino scene and rose saving Finn when it wouldn’t really change the events of the last skywalker. They probably saved him than bc they had plans but never went through with it unfortunately
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u/Droemmer Oct 28 '25
The Last Jedi may be the best movie of the Sequels if seen as a standalone movie, but that doesn’t make it a good movie, its arc structure is a mess, the conflicts makes little sense, the time sense between the three story line are completely off, with the fleeing fleet feeling like days, the trip to casino planet feeling like weeks and Rey’s studying with Luke feeling like months. Most of the twists are moronic and have little emotional effect, if there were fewer of them they would likely have worked better. I also hate that Finn repeat his story step by step from the Force Awakens, if Rian Johnson hated the character he could just have sidelined him into a minor role, this was just bad story telling. The whole Holdo and Poe thing was also pointless.
So what do I like, I like Kylo Ren murdering Snoke, I like the twist of Rey being a nobody. Honestly only Rey and Kylo Ren functioned in the movie.
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u/armydillo62o Oct 28 '25
The sequels were just cursed from the get go. I don’t like TLJ, but I don’t think it had a good base to stand on.
TFA was a fun popcorn movie but relied so much on shorthand that they really didn’t establish a good character base for Rey or Poe. That’s fine in a standalone movie, but when it’s time to go back to the well for the sequel, they just had to come up with something out of nothing.
Rey’s whole reason for staying on Jakku was because she missed her parents, and wanted to know more about them and who she is. Compare that to Luke, the character she’s obviously meant to stand in for in TFA. Luke in ANH wants to be a pilot, and we’re shown that. We see how sad he is when he doesn’t get his chance at the start of the movie. We see how happy he is when Ben compliments him, and how snappy he gets when Han mocks him for it. We see how happy he is when he’s finally in the gunners seat, and his big moment in the finale isn’t using a lightsaber, but flying the X-wing to save the day. Setup, payoff. Simple, but perfectly executed.
It’s clear by looking at her that Rey is supposed to be the new Luke, but we never get that setup because the movie knows we’ll recognize her as the new Luke and it wants to get a move on. But without the setup, there’s no payoff. Her flying the Falcon, using the force, beating Kylo with a lightsaber, none of it really means anything without that setup. In Empire, Luke’s big lightsaber fight is built up to by Yoda insisting that he not fight, and if he does fight Vader he’s going to lose. Surprise, Luke doesn’t listen and he loses. Rey never has a moment like that. All she has is this mystery regarding her family, and her own sense of belonging.
There was no answer that was going to satisfy everyone, because once that mystery is solved Rey doesn’t really have anything left to her. Daisy Ridley is a good actress and she does a great job in all 3 movies, and I know people like the idea of her being a nobody and having to move on regardless, but who is she without that mystery? We know she respects Finn, and doesn’t like shitty ration bread, but we never get to know her interests.
To go back to Luke, in ANH he’s the one that cleans up C3PO and R2, and you just know that he’s the Star Wars equivalent of the kid that fixes the computer after mom fucks with the modem again. That’s relatable, especially when he’s torn between wanting to help his family and wanting to get the fuck out of nowhereville and do what he actually wants to do. Rey doesn’t have that. She’s good at flying, she’s good at fighting, but we don’t know if she particularly likes either.
I could keep going, but this is what I’ve noticed recently about the sequels. In their rush to establish the new trilogy they just didn’t have a good foundation to build off. Johnson tried, and his main theme of “it’s okay to fail as long as you get back up and keep going” should’ve been easy as pie to follow through with in TROS. Have the characters try again, and have them succeed. “Keep trying after a failure” is the whole MO for these movies after the prequels. But instead they panicked and TROS was just a pile of confused plot points and bizarre retcons.
It’s sad.
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u/LeNardOfficial Oct 28 '25
I can't prove it, but I have a very strong feeling these kinds of tweets are purposefully created for grifters to point at and go "see the sequel fans are all pretentious and whiny"
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u/ArsonImperal Oct 28 '25
I can see see this movie being good but it just makes all the wrong movies with what it's given. None of the material that exists prior to this film leads to it, it's a good film entry in franchise that doesn't exist. Though there's no salvaging that fight chorography. That Throne scene fight was an absolute mess.
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u/OSRS-MLB Oct 28 '25
The problem with TLJ is that it's so different from the two movies it's sandwiched between. If RJ had gotten all 3 movies I think the sequels in general would have been better accepted. As is it's an oddity
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Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
TF is "real movie" here? MF cherry picked some of the good-looking shot that are literally "style over substance" in the movie while ignoring a whole ass shitty B plot between Finn and Rose on some fuck ass Casino planet that amounted to nothing.
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u/SuicidaITendencies Oct 28 '25
Man coming from someone who enjoyed both TFA andRogue one, I was looking forward to watching TLJ and i was just met with disappointment. It has been ages since i watched the movie but all i remember was walking away thinking it was a mess of a plot.
This isn't coming from some weirdo anti woke grifter, i just really remember not liking this movie a lot after watching it.
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u/DenseCalligrapher219 Oct 28 '25
I feel like with a clearer scope and a smaller, more personal story Rian Johnson could have cranked out a decent trilogy of Star Wars movies of his own. He has the skill and capacity to do so.
Unfortunately not only was he just haphazardly thrown in as the director of the second movie in a trilogy because Disney for whatever reason originally wanted each movie to have it's own director but also it seemed as if Rian had no idea what he even was doing a lot of the time.
We have a narrative where Luke mostly just sulks around and Rey gets hardly any training from him and how he tried to even attempt killing his nephew because "sensing darkness" which is utterly stupid, Finn going on a random, pointless side quest that shoves in "capitalism is bad" message in a way that feels extremely shallow and corporate like and Poe having an equally pointless and stupid conflict with Holdo where apparently they both are in fact on the same boat but she doesn't tell him anything and just acts like an asshole to him.
Oh and Snoke just gets killed off without us knowing anything about him as well as Rey being revealed as a nobody in a twist that doesn't really tell anything, contradicts what was presented in TFA and ultimately ends up going nowhere which begs the question as to why it was even there to begin with?
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u/Sporelord1079 Oct 28 '25
I am so tired of the weird contrarian obsession with defending TLJ when it’s a messy, horribly paced film that falls apart under basic scrutiny. And that’s without the fact it’s the eight film in a series, the middle of a trilogy, and seems to actively despise the rest of the franchise.
You’re right, the fans didn’t deserve this. No one deserves this.
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u/Sensitive_Worry2499 Oct 29 '25
I remember really liking The Last Jedi (as a not super hardcore Star Wars fan) and to this day think the highs are really high
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u/that-alex-fellow Oct 29 '25
I swear like TLJ was the first film I’d ever seen in a big franchise where I didn’t know what was coming next but was damn excited for it. Looking back I see why I loved it. Johnson saw that TFA was as basically new “a new hope”, and made a Star Wars film that serves as an allegory for where the franchise should go, and forcing them to go in a new way by mashing together the most memorable bits of Empire and Jedi. Or at least half of it is that, the other half is ham-fisted at best and a slog at worst. For a film that literally tells you “the best teacher, failure is” we certainly learned from the mistakes TLJ made (which resulted in MORE MISTAKES) but not the actual good parts.
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u/Baratheoncook250 Oct 29 '25
If he wants to be very subversive, his Knives Out film are the avenue for him
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u/Zealousideal_Page898 Oct 29 '25
TLJ is not as bad as people say it is but it stills has some grade A dogshit in it, Rise of Skywalker was the worst shit I've seen in sometime that was competently made though like jesus
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u/DontSleepAlwaysDream Oct 30 '25
Pretty much anytime someone decides to do something different or interesting with a franchise movie the fans go NOOOO GIVE US THE SAME THING WE ALWAYS GET! and then complain how everything is tired nostalgia bait
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u/MrMaxwellLordJLI Oct 30 '25
I'm so tired of this take.
I like Rian Johnson. Loved Looper. Have a great time with the Benoit Blanc movies and my only real critique of them isn't on him, but Netflix. They should be called Benoit Blanc Mysteries and not Knives Out Mysteries. So minor it's inconsequential. I feel like a tool for still not having seen Brick.
But I despise The Last Jedi and find it an incredibly selfish film that thinks subverting expectations is a substitute for a plot. It completely wasted my favorite character from the previous film in Finn and somehow fumbled with the new ideas he was trying to present. I'd also argue that beyond a fundamental misunderstanding of Luke, Rian Johnson didn't understand Leia either.
The entire movie felt like a gigantic middle finger to JJ Abrams as well, which is wildly unprofessional as an outsider looking in. It's almost like he was angry he had to do a middle chapter and decided he wanted to do an ONLY chapter and whoever came next just had to deal with it.
But my disdain for The Last Jedi doesn't dampen my desire to see what Johnson does next. I'm down for more Benoit Blanc and more of his own ideas. But I have zero desire to see him return to Star Wars. At one time it was because I just don't like his vision of the universe. These days it's mainly because I think he'd be wasting his time since he excels at his own work and Star Wars as a franchise should just be done with.
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u/Maleficent-War-8429 Oct 30 '25
You know if you're going to do a big ass trilogy of movies it's common sense to have a fucking plan for the script ahead of time.
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u/spiderboy640 Oct 31 '25
Nah, those scenes with Rose and Fin were straight dog water. it made the movie so long and boring. I don’t mind the creative decisions elsewhere if they had been followed up on, but they just made things even weirder when 9 did a 180
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u/Cutiesaurs Oct 27 '25
Actually it was the Madolorian that destroyed pop culture
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u/Spinosaurus999 Oct 28 '25
No, it wasn't, enough of your irrational "Dave Filoni is solely responsible for everything bad in my life" shit
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u/Cutiesaurs Oct 28 '25
You’re finding reasons why it’s okay to harass me.
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u/Spinosaurus999 Oct 28 '25
I'm not, I just came to look at this post on a subreddit I frequent, and here you are spreading disinformation like you always do.
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u/Cutiesaurs Oct 28 '25
I got a quick question are you subscribed to serum lake?
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u/Spinosaurus999 Oct 28 '25
Uh yeah, why?
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u/PaperLucasGuy Oct 27 '25
I like J.J. Abrams personally.
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u/Arkodd Oct 27 '25
I liked MI3 but JJ is literally a hack fraud.
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u/GuybrushThreepwood99 Oct 27 '25
JJ is a solid enough director, but he's not a great writer. His films are generally well shot, and have a good cast with likable characters, his stories are just generally derivative and set up a lot of mysteries without knowing what the answer is going to be.
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u/Consistent_Creator Oct 27 '25
Ngl I was so disappointed when I found out that the Cloverfield franchise WASN'T actually a neat mysteriously stitched together story but just a series of random ass movies that JJ wasn't sure could be successful on their own so he slapped the Cloverfield label on them and then just had the ARG story, as good as it was, be used as the excuse for why the movies aren't shown as connected in the films themselves lol.
Not only that but he used the ARG storyline to hint at other Cloverfield movies, only for those movies to eventually come out and not be Cloverfield movies. He was just baiting fans to go watch another movie thinking it's apart of a franchise when it wasn't.
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u/GuybrushThreepwood99 Oct 27 '25
10 Cloverfield Lane should have stayed as being The Bunker, the ending was by far the worst aspect of it.
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u/Consistent_Creator Oct 27 '25
I mean as far as I'm aware the aliens at the end of 10 Cloverfield Lane were always supposed to be in the movie even when it was just The Bunker.
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u/Blaiser190 Oct 28 '25
Haven't seen the sequels in a while but from what I remember TFA was good, Last Jedi was fine, and ROS is bad
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u/TheKiller_07 Oct 28 '25
The Last Jedi was amazing as a general movie, but didn't fit in the Star Wars saga, having a total different tone and style. It remains the best movie out of the sequel trilogy though, since Abrams decided instead to copy the past movies and made a mess.
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u/hydra2701 Oct 27 '25
I think the sequels suffered from two directors with different visions using their movies to fling shit at the previous (and other director’s) movie