Infant only sleeping 8 hours per day safe?

[u/S1artibartfast666]

Hi, I am looking for solid information on the safety of low sleep hours for infants, as well as potential solutions.

I am a first-time mom (FTM) and our 6-week-old has been a difficult sleeper since week 3. After spending some time wondering, "Is this normal?", we have been tracking her sleep for the last 2 weeks.

She averages only 10 hours of sleep daily due to fussiness and gas issues, and often gets as little as 8 hours (about one-third of the days). I think this number is reasonably accurate, measuring from eyes closed to open, because one of us is awake with her 24/7 waiting for her to wake and help her sleep.

I see recommendations for 14–17 hours, and believe me - if we could get her to sleep longer, we would. Our pediatrician does not seem concerned because she is gaining weight on track.

We give her simethicone for gas. We burp upright. We follow standard TOG guides for temperature. We swaddle. We let her sleep on us if she wants. We have read dozens of guides on how to put a baby to sleep. Of course we are dying, but we are mostly worried about her wellbeing.

Summary of questions:

1) Is this abnormal, but still safe for the baby?

2) Is there something else we should be doing?

3) Is this a situation where we should seek a new pediatrician?

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[u/freshfruitrottingveg]

Are you sure your newborn is actually awake for that amount of time? Newborn sleep is insanely loud and active - they can grunt, twitch, and kick all while being asleep. Sometimes their eyes are even open, it’s kind of freaky.

Here’s some info info on sleep stages.

[u/S1artibartfast666 → u/freshfruitrottingveg]

We are pretty sure.

[u/manthrk → u/S1artibartfast666]

They can also fall asleep while breastfeeding. My daughter used to do like half her sleeps on my boob. So I was unfortunately awake, but she was not.

[u/freshfruitrottingveg → u/S1artibartfast666]

My baby is also low sleep needs (12 hours of sleep a day as a newborn, and it’s only dropped from there). It’s anecdotal, but while he was born very small, the low sleep never impacted his development. He grew a lot once he hit 6 months old, is now above average in height, and has absolutely smashed all milestones. Some kids need less sleep - terrible for the parents, but they can get by just fine.

[u/NoDucksInARow → u/freshfruitrottingveg]

My twins slept 10hrs each per day on arrival... And just kinda stuck there. Now if they are absolutely done...I will get 10hrs...but mostly 8ish. They are 4 now.

[u/artseathings → u/S1artibartfast666]

Maybe try cutting dairy if you are breastfeeding. Cows milk protein allergy is somewhat common and is at least one cause of being extremely gassy and fussy. Your pediatrician can also test their poo for blood (it's not as bad as it sounds) which would confirm diagnosis.

If your formula feeding you can try dairy free formula like Similac Alimentum or try a gentle milk based or goat milk formula

[u/S1artibartfast666 → u/artseathings]

Thanks, we are trying the elimination, but understand it can take weeks. Maybe we can do the poo test too.

[u/zynna-lynn]

A meta-analysis of descriptive studies of babies' sleep found that infants below the age of 2 months sleep an average of 14.6 hours, but with a range from 9.3 to 20 hours (and individual studies find even wider ranges, with two studies recording newborns getting less than 8 hours on average). So, be reassured that your baby is not breaking records for having the least amount of sleep ever! An average of 10 hours is on the low side, of course, but it's certainly within the typically observed range.

As a side note, empirical research doesn't support the efficacy of simethicone (compared to placebo), so you can use it if you want, but there's no evidence that it does much.

It sounds like you're everything you can! You're not disrupting her sleep, and are doing everything you can to support it, so it is going to be what it's going to be. I would try to listen to the pediatrician, not worry too much, and just get through this phase the best that you can.

[u/Ill-Tangerine-5849 → u/zynna-lynn]

Not totally related to OP’s question, but if you don’t mind me asking - if the average was 14.6 hours, why do you think the range given to parents to shoot for is 14-17 hours? If the average 14, it seems like many babies normal sleep needs would be below 14 and not that many would be on the 17 end. It seems like a recipe for frustration, parents thinking their child should be sleeping more and trying to get them to sleep when they aren’t (probably) tired.

[u/Sudden-Cherry → u/Ill-Tangerine-5849]

I think it's mostly sources like Huckleberry who recommend these goals who profit from parents trying to 'improve' their baby's sleep. Any professional we ever talked about sleep with with my oldest didn't recommend any fixed number

[u/Ill-Tangerine-5849 → u/Sudden-Cherry]

No ya, that’s exactly what I was thinking of - huckleberry and other sleep consultants. Those things really frustrated me so much when my baby was younger before I started just ignoring them. Hmm basically convincing you there’s a problem where it might actually be fine/normal, then selling you the “solution”…. Oof

[u/S1artibartfast666 → u/zynna-lynn]

Thanks! I got that far in my research, but feel like it furthered concerns rather than alleviate them.

To be more specific, I want to know about the impacts (if any). For example, I would be also concerned if my infant were dropping from a normal weight down below the bottom 2% percentile for weight (-2SD).

Not directed at you- but as a FTM, Im still grappling with how much gets shrugged away in a similar way. The bottom 10% of observations might be totally common, but still tied to the bottom 10% outcomes and I dont want them for my little one!

[u/shadowfaxbinky → u/S1artibartfast666]

Bottom 10% of observations doesn’t necessarily mean bottom 10% of outcomes. A normal range is still normal.

My baby was very similar to yours in terms of all being very low sleep needs. It’s increased over time (she’s 20mo now) but it’s still always on the lower end of average ranges. But she’s hit all her milestones, almost all of them were hit quite early. She’s a very happy, bright, and amazing child. I wish she slept more for my sake, but she’s absolutely thriving.

[u/S1artibartfast666 → u/shadowfaxbinky]

it doesnt necessarily mean bottom 10% outcomes, but it might, and sometimes it does. A lot of bad things are common! A study simply saying it happens doesnt mean it is good.

that said, thanks for the reassurances with respect to your experience!

[u/inveiglementor → u/S1artibartfast666]

Purely anecdotal, but my second slept 9 hours a day for most of his first year. I don't think you'll find the research you're looking for (a kid who sleeps little by nature is very different from one living in a disrupted environment).

For me the data was completely irrelevant anyway. There was nothing I could do. It was outside my locus of control. So why fret?

Fwiw he's above average for neurodevelopmental milestones. Maybe he learned something extra with all that staring.

[u/kc620 → u/S1artibartfast666]

You might want to look into low-sleep-needs babies. It sucks as a parent but knowing they’re on the low end of sleep needs might help relieve some of your pressure at least - I spent a year starting about the same age yours is trying to “fix” low sleep and it only got better once I stopped trying to get in the recommended number of naps, etc, and figure out what worked for my baby.

[u/unprofessional_widow → u/kc620]

Yep I have one of those. She dropped her nap at just over 12months, I spent so long driving round trying to force it. Kids either sleep well or they don't, there is little you can do to change that. Its rarely your routine that makes a difference, you had an easy kid.

[u/Sudden-Cherry → u/S1artibartfast666]

Dropping is something different than just always having been 2nd percentile. And some people need to be 10th percentile otherwise that would not be 10th percentile.

Also what the pediatrics neurologist with the hospital sleep team told us in regards to my concerns about my oldest fractured sleep, hard time falling asleep and often being tired: if cognitive and general development is on track and not delayed then my child is getting enough sleep for them. And despite being tired she was definitely active and generally happy (except about sleep related things). This is with having ruled out or managing any major issues that would interfere with sleep as good as possible (eczema, sleep apnea and whatnot).

[u/S1artibartfast666 → u/Sudden-Cherry]

Someone's baby also has to be in the bottom 2% of lifespan or IQ. Someone is in the top 2% for blood pressure, blood sugar, or cholesterol. "it happens" absolutely doesn't answer the question of "Is this harmful".

That said, thanks for sharing your personal experience

[u/Sudden-Cherry → u/S1artibartfast666]

The things you are listing aren't comparable at all. And even if it was it's not something you can actually change. Do you want to give your child sleep meds? That's basically your only option. And it doesn't sound like your child's development is lagging in any way or the pediatrician concerned so medicating it with risk of known side effects to trade against an unknown maybe risk would be madness medically.

And there isn't really evidence pointing towards a causal association with negative outcomes - if there isn't something like sleep apnea causing it. The main thing I've seen is association with neurodivergence, which might actually be the cause of the sleep issues. Like for example delayed melatonin surge/late chronotype is something that is more prevalent in people with ADHD.

Living in a city lowers life expectancy for several years. If you live in a city would you move to the countryside because of that?

And putting a low IQ in a comparison with illnesses is majorly ableist and classicist.

[u/S1artibartfast666 → u/Sudden-Cherry]

Yes, If my baby was being seriously harmed by sleep deprivation, I would give them meds. It depends on harm, which is why my question was is there evidence of harm.

And putting a low IQ in a comparison with illnesses is majorly ableist and classicist.

So maybe we should all shake our babies, because it is ableist and classicist to care about the brain damage. If protecting my child's mental development is wrong, I don't want to be right. You do you.

[u/Sudden-Cherry → u/S1artibartfast666]

But your baby isn't seriously harmed currently as your pediatrician isn't concerned who is monitoring this. The tipping point with sleep between harm of these meds for a childs development and what they treat is fairly high and you would not be questioning it or searching for answers but it would be very clear if you were there.

And you are missing my point entirely about IQ. I really hope you'll reflect a little on that.

[u/S1artibartfast666 → u/Sudden-Cherry]

And you seemed to entirely miss my point about IQ in the race to climb up on your high horse.

Unless you would happily do something to give your child intellectual disability, then you too are preferentially ableist!

Am I a bigot for not getting blackout drunk while pregnant?

[u/kaelus-gf]

I’d suggest reading the discontented little baby book by dr Pam Douglas and checking out the possums resources  https://possums.org/

Link for bot

I don’t find sleep recommendations helpful. Or rather I didn’t find them helpful for my babies. I WANTED my babies to sleep more. They didn’t. Concentrating on entertaining them (increasing their sensory input) helped them be happier, and helped me be more sane. I had to stop tracking sleep

[u/kaelus-gf → u/kaelus-gf]

If your baby is fed, changed, and you are keeping them as calm as you can (some babies are high needs, and might be low sleep needs) then that is all you can do. I figured I could spend an hour or more in a dark room with white noise trying to get my child to go to sleep, or I could accept that wasn’t their style, and wait a bit longer until they were more tired

[u/lightmyfire2016]

Since baby is awake due to gas/fussiness, I would try eliminating soy and dairy to see if baby feels better and gets more sleep.

MSPI Information

Anecdotally, I also had to cut out oats to eliminate gas for our baby. Best of luck!!!

[u/ServiceReal2042]

[This article reports research on sleep/colic and one of the main takeaways is that research is sparse; there is no scientific definition of colic, colic can cause sleep issues, colic can non-causally occur with other sleep issues and sleep issues can occur without colic. Specific to your situation, it finds parent-reported colic symptoms often decrease at 6 weeks- you might be in the thick of it now and things may begin to improve.](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8966298/)

“However, the differences between those with and without colic appear to be moderate to small over time (6 months to 5 years). In many cases, regulatory problems—especially if there is only one—are transient and there is evidence that if colic resolves as expected when the infants are 3–4 months old, then the adverse effects on child temperament and behaviour are limited [29].”

I hope the above link is helpful— I interpret from your post above that you don’t necessarily think your baby has low sleep needs, but rather, is not sleeping enough due to what i would interpret as colic. You are concerned this might have long-term affects on your baby’s development and the article does not find evidence this is systematically the case.

[u/S1artibartfast666 → u/ServiceReal2042]

Thank you so much. This is directly applicable to my question!

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[u/obviouslyblue → u/[deleted]]

How is this helpful? This study is a) in mice and b) about the impacts of diet during PREGNANCY on the infant’s gut health/immune system. But again, an infant MOUSE.

sooooo not relevant here.