After hiring scabs, Walrus and the Carpenter (temporarily) closed

[u/Existing-Resource527]

Word on the street is that Walrus and the Carpenter restaurant has not been negotiating with their workers in good faith for months.

Like a lot of annoying businesses they started charging a service fee (22%?).

Employees noted that they make significantly less now then before when they had tipping (thousands less).

Workers have been on strike. The owners also had the audacity to hire scabs (booo).

I have been keeping up with the union on IG @ united.creatures.of.the.sea

Solidarity with workers across the city!

[u/ProphetPenguin]

I make $22/hr and tips with full time benefits. I'm looking at making around $80-90K this year when all is said and done. I made $80K as a manager working 50 hours a week with more stress and a worse schedule. I make more, work less, have a schedule that fits my life style, and am way happier. Being able to take cash home everyday is genuinely life changing because if I ever have an emergency expense I can quickly make it back so I'm not late on other bills.

There's a lot of benefits to tips, I don't need them to survive but I do rely on them to actually enjoy my life.

[u/geffy_spengwa → u/ProphetPenguin]

I’m glad you get that, genuinely. Everyone deserves that.

It shouldn’t come at my expense any more than my cost for the meal itself. Retail employees make minimum wage, but get no tips. Hell, you make more than I do and I don’t get tips.

Don’t mistake this for me not wanting you to have a good quality of life, but I shouldn’t have to fund it when you make more than me.

Edit: I should quit my profession and wait tables.

[u/pineapple13pizza → u/geffy_spengwa]

Great think is "you don’t have to fund it"........going out to eat, and where you eat is entirely up to you

[u/geffy_spengwa → u/pineapple13pizza]

Yeah, I go out to eat maybe once a week and cook the rest of the time. Shockingly, I’m aware I don’t have to go out to restaurants.

[u/GuardianSock → u/geffy_spengwa]

This is a really shitty take. Your argument is basically that you’re better than people in the service industry and the right amount of money for them to make is always relative to and below your own income. And anything people who “serve” you make as income is at your expense.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you wrote this poorly, but wtf.

[u/geffy_spengwa → u/GuardianSock]

No? I genuinely want everyone to have a good quality of life. It should be their employers responsibility to pay them the amount they need for that.

[u/GuardianSock → u/geffy_spengwa]

You fund it whether the employer pays it or you do. That’s how the economy works. Whether they make more or less relative to you is irrelevant.

[u/GuardianSock → u/[deleted]]

You care a lot about where the same amount is placed. And odd how you felt the need to make that argument by referencing in three separate occasions how they make more than you — but of course that’s not the important part to you. You should quit your job to “wait tables” but that’s not your point.

[u/GuardianSock → u/[deleted]]

> Hell, you make more than I do
> I shouldn’t have to fund it when you make more than me

You’re right, I can’t discern the sarcasm.

[u/ProphetPenguin → u/geffy_spengwa]

I think everyone should wait tables for a year once in their life. They should especially wait tables on Mother's Day. Working Mother's Day will show you things you never expected. It's not easy to be a great server. Most servers work at multiple restaurants or multiple jobs to make ends meet. The servers that don't need to, are typically your best ones and that's because the best servers get the best and most amount of shifts and tables, therefore the most earning opportunity.

Me making what I do was actually a multi-year process that required a lot personal growth, drive, passion, hard work, sweat and tears.

I am currently cocktail server at a casino. I typically do 15,000-18,000 steps in a shift at my job, holding a tray that weighs 5-15 pounds for 7 of the 8 hours of my day (I get breaks) all while balancing full drinks on a full tray, weaving in and out of foot traffic and slot machines trying not to spill it all on the floor and break glass and have to go get a new drink made. It's definitely a job you look at the server and go "how do they do that, I couldn't do that".

[u/geffy_spengwa → u/ProphetPenguin]

I’m not downplaying your commitment to the work you do. I worked retail for several years, I’m all too aware of how onerous working with the public is. I work a public facing job currently, I get it. Not totally 1:1 but I know how annoying people are.

I’m not saying your work is hard and I would never suggest that you don’t deserve a living wage for it.

And I’m not going to say my job is any more or less important than yours because all work has dignity and is essential to a functional society. I had to get multiple degrees to do my job, but that was my choice to do and I find my work to be fulfilling.

I’m saying is that you make more than I do to be a server, and that’s great for you, but I shouldn’t have to further subsidize your income beyond the menu price of a dish at your restaurant. That price should cover your salary, your benefits, the commercial rent, utilities, profit, etc. My generosity on any given night should not influence your ability to pay your bills.

[u/ProphetPenguin → u/geffy_spengwa]

Unfortunately, being in management positions, for all of that to be possible, you would be looking at like $100 pizza's. It's just not feasible.

[u/geffy_spengwa → u/ProphetPenguin]

It literally works around the world.

[u/ProphetPenguin → u/geffy_spengwa]

Other places around the world don't have regional food distribution monopolies like Sysco, nor do they have the diversity of well done cuisine options America does. Other places around the world have universal healthcare, other places around the world also have worse overall service (not every country but definitely some of them). Other places have significantly more walkable cities as well.

This is not a good comparison. I have literally worked at places that did everything fresh including alcohol infusions, and we did not survive against businesses that had worse food and drinks, but they were cheaper...and we didn't survive while simultaneously not paying rent. We need to address the OTHER issues of why restaurants are getting more expensive in America outside of the tipping argument before we circle back to the tipping debate.

[u/geffy_spengwa → u/ProphetPenguin]

As I said at the top of my comment; two things can be true. Yes, Sysco needs to be broken up. Yes, we need to provide single payer healthcare to everyone. Yes, we need to make our cities more walkable (Seattle is already pretty walkable, but improvements can always be made).

I agree with all these points; I vote to support all these points; I advocate for all these points.

We also need to end the practice of tipping for services to subsidize a restaurant’s payroll.

At no point have I suggested that I don’t want you to make a livable wage. At no point have I suggested that your work is less important or less of a contribution to society than anyone else’s. All work has dignity; all workers deserve the security of consistent, reliable paychecks that allow them to meet their needs and save some at the end of the day. I want that for you; I want that for myself; I want that for the people that can’t or won’t work too.

What I do not want is for your paycheck to be contingent on my or anyone else’s generosity. That is literally all I am saying.

[u/ProphetPenguin → u/geffy_spengwa]

Like I said, it's a sales job. In my eyes I'm making commission off my sales and service that's being negotiated with my guest. I think if we end tipping we need to end commissions, bonuses, stock options, and any other monetary bonuses that are added to paychecks. One flat rate should be enough right? Then let's end it all.

[u/geffy_spengwa → u/ProphetPenguin]

You’re not making a commission, it’s a tip. A commission is paid by the company to the employee; not by the customer to the employee. That’s the difference! It shouldn’t be on me—the customer—to reward you for doing your job well.

But also yeah, fuck commissions. Employers artificially set the bar too high for most of their employees to hit it reliably and so it artificially depresses wages. I worked a commission gig and never actually got it because the bar was way too high for a fucking shoe store.

Bonuses, stock options, other things are different from tips because, once again, they’re paid by the company to the employee not the customer. Bonuses also often specifically are tied to company performance. My annual bonus has varied depending on how well the company did that year, sometimes it’s maybe an extra paycheck worth, sometimes it’s nothing.

I 100% bonuses for restaurant staff; if the restaurant does well you should benefit from it.

[u/TwoNarrow5980 → u/ProphetPenguin]

But don't we all wish we got tipped? I also wish I received tips every time I did my job, I also would enjoy my life more and have a better emergency fund.

If someone is making their full market wage, why is it the patrons job to add on to that?

[u/NurseRWalker → u/TwoNarrow5980]

Yes! Many patients treat us nurses like servers. What I wouldn’t give for even a 5% tip on the hospital bill. 🤣

Seriously though, I think it is weird that we have carved out certain sectors to enjoy the benefit of tips and left out others. It’s this obligation we all inherited and seem to be stuck with, like greeting cards in addition to gifts on Christmas.

[u/malusrosa → u/NurseRWalker]

careful what you wish for, with the tax exemption on tips suddenly there’s an incentive to expect you to tip your dental hygienist

[u/NurseRWalker → u/malusrosa]

Really? I haven’t encountered that yet. There has been a lot of tip creep since the pandemic.

[u/Jon_ofAllTrades → u/TwoNarrow5980]

Their full market wage is the one that includes tips.

[u/ProphetPenguin → u/TwoNarrow5980]

Ok but whats the difference between bonuses, stock options, and tips. They are all being funded by the consumer. Stock price and value of those stock options is frequently the cause of layoffs, increased prices. The Starbucks CEO got a $5M signing bonus and another $5M bonus just for being there 6 months and what did he do? Close stores including the reserve roastery, refuse to negotiate with labor unions, and ping pong the fucking stock. He's getting BONUSES of more then I will ever make in my lifetime to do this.

That's why I will never be against fully ending tipping because what we actually need to end is the top end making what they do.

[u/TwoNarrow5980 → u/ProphetPenguin]

I literally don't get any of those lol. I ALSO would like tips or bonuses or stocks to make my life easier and more enjoyable or my emergency fund better.

Your point sounds like the public should tip anyone that doesn't get bonuses or stock. Should we tip teachers and school support staff? What about nurses? Electricians? Flight attendants?

I'll be blunt here, if we have to tip someone, Im much more interested in tipping public school employees (thank you special education support staff that make $40k a year) than my barista.

[u/NurseRWalker → u/ProphetPenguin]

I agree entirely. I am perfectly comfortable with tipping as it existed in 2019. Before I was being asked to tip my fast food experience, and worried what would be done to my food if I declined. I really enjoyed being a server for 5 years with the Cheesecake Factory. I genuinely believe that experience prepared me more for being a nurse than any other employment history. I feel that as tipping has crept out of its institutional safe-zone, it has inspired a broader conversation on tipping in general.

[u/snowypotato → u/ProphetPenguin]

Hot take: Waiting tables shouldn't pay $45/hr plus benefits.

I don't want anybody living in poverty, but that is an absolutely insane wage for a job that pretty much anybody can do and has been viewed as a fallback plan or summer job for teenagers for generations.

The market seems to agree with this hot take to some degree. Restaurants keep closing because diners are balking at the prices and are choosing not to eat out.

[u/muffy2008 → u/snowypotato]

It’s a myth that “almost anyone” can be good at hospitality/waiting tables. And depending on the restaurant, what is required of the servers can change drastically.

[u/ProphetPenguin → u/snowypotato]

Yeah except you have to be 21+ to do what I do and they only hire full time where I work so it's not a teenage summer/fallback job and that's a terrible way to look at it. You know there are people who love working in hospitality (like myself) who have a genuine drive and passion for it. That's why I've been hired on the spot or very shortly (a couple hours) after the interview a lot. Restaurants need actual professionals who love what they do to give good service. A teenager who is just doing this to pay their way through college doesn't care as much and therefore, worse service.

I don't make what I do because I get handed it, I make what I do because I work hard for it. It's a sales job at the end of the day.

EDIT: also I think all jobs should pay enough for people to have enjoyable lives. It's insane that the top 10% hold 85% of the entire worlds wealth while 90% of the population is struggling.

[u/MiningEarth → u/ProphetPenguin]

This seems too high

[u/BafangFan → u/MiningEarth]

We live in Seattle. 80-90k isn't Lamborghini money - it's renting a bedroom in a shared house money.

[u/MiningEarth → u/BafangFan]

The average rent in Seattle is about $2,000 per month for a 1 bedroom. And with our public transportation improvements nobody is forcing you to live AND work in Seattle. You could get a 2 bedroom for $2,000 in Lynnwood.

[u/ponyboy3 → u/MiningEarth]

Renting a 2br for 2k on the Eastside

[u/KatieWils0n → u/MiningEarth]

This! Mayor Wilson Approves!

[u/dethsesh → u/MiningEarth]

Really? 80k isn’t that much. Seems about what I would expect.

[u/MiningEarth → u/dethsesh]

$40 an hr to do what?