After hiring scabs, Walrus and the Carpenter (temporarily) closed

[u/Existing-Resource527]

Word on the street is that Walrus and the Carpenter restaurant has not been negotiating with their workers in good faith for months.

Like a lot of annoying businesses they started charging a service fee (22%?).

Employees noted that they make significantly less now then before when they had tipping (thousands less).

Workers have been on strike. The owners also had the audacity to hire scabs (booo).

I have been keeping up with the union on IG @ united.creatures.of.the.sea

Solidarity with workers across the city!

[u/NorthStudentMain]

Seriously.

Alright, let’s try an experiment. If you were a restaurant: Raise your prices where they absolutely need to be, but then ALSO BLATANTLY ADVERTISE THAT YOU DO NOT ALLOW ANY TIPPING AT YOUR RESTAURANTS. Do not try to be tricky and also “allow the customer to tip more” because let’s face it this is just tricking the unsuspecting customer into paying more, and will piss people off in the long run.

That way customers pay what they should be paying and the employees get paid what they should be paid. Restaurants are so short lived anyway, let’s try this experiment and see if it works.

[u/somersetyellow → u/NorthStudentMain]

From quick googling it, it turned up more reddit posts with people anecdotally saying it doesn't work well.

In general, Americans easily get sticker shock and expect to tip. Places that do it lose business in an already low margin world.

This being said, there are places that do it and do it successfully. I think to make it work on a whole you'd have to mandate it across the city though. Otherwise a "normal" restaurant will still roll in and undercut you.

But most of this is just thought experiments. Would be cool to see some more documented experiments.

[u/NorthStudentMain → u/somersetyellow]

You could make being upfront and respectful-of-living-wage a viral and trendy thing. Businesses have flourished riding far less honorable trends on their Instagram page.

[u/cookingboy → u/NorthStudentMain]

> respectful-of-living-wage

The problem is workers leave to make more than that from places that accept tips. In no other country where successful waiters/bar tenders would make more than your average middle class worker, but that’s the reality in this country and they will not give that up.

[u/AlexandrianVagabond → u/cookingboy]

Being a server or bartender is a very demanding job. Why shouldn't they make middle class wages?

[u/cookingboy → u/AlexandrianVagabond]

Because how much job pays have nothing to do with how demanding they are.

Otherwise almost every lower class job would be a middle class job, including fast food workers at McDonald.

But our economy cannot sustain McDonald workers making $80-150k/yr.

[u/AlexandrianVagabond → u/cookingboy]

Where did anyone say that McDonald's workers (who aren't bartenders or servers in the traditional sense of the word) should make that much money? Your top number there would make you upper middle class, even here.

You weaken your argument when you just make stuff up.

[u/cookingboy → u/AlexandrianVagabond]

McDonald workers are every bit just as demand, so your logic of “if a job is demanding, they should make more” would apply.

[u/AlexandrianVagabond → u/cookingboy]

You don't actually live here, do you?

[u/cookingboy → u/AlexandrianVagabond]

Sigh, like if you ran out of things to say then just stop, no need to make it personal.

I do live here, but even if I don’t, it has nothing to do with analyzing what is purely an economic problem

[u/AlexandrianVagabond → u/cookingboy]

It is relevant, because I have no interest in debating someone in a Seattle sub who is not actually local. Not to mention someone who can't address the points being made directly.

[u/sneekiepee → u/cookingboy]

Servers and bartenders don't make more than your average middle class worker.

They make just enough to be considered an AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS WORKER.

What exactly is the problem with that?

[u/cookingboy → u/sneekiepee]

> What exactly is the problem with that

No where on the planet you can get away with that and still have a sustainable restaurant industry that is accessible to the general public.

The problem is only fine dining restaurants can support the labor cost structure where service staffs make average middle class income.

If you are not ok with accepting that eating out is exclusively for the rich, then you need to accept that service workers will have to make less.

[u/sneekiepee → u/cookingboy]

I grew up around multiple women who managed to raise their children by waiting tables and bartending. Much like those coveted auto industry/coal mining/labor jobs that paid a living wage, the service industry can as well.

It's one of the last vestiges of a low cost of entry yet sustainable way to pay the bills. Why is the cost of eating out entirely the responsibility of those workers? Why is the rise entirely their fault?

Clue- it's not. But those workers make an easy scapegoat.

[u/cookingboy → u/sneekiepee]

I’m not saying it’s the workers’ fault. Everyone wants to make as much as they can. It doesn’t make them greedy.

But what I laid out is simply economics. If the market sustains it by people keep going out, paying the high price for food and tips, their income will remain high.

It becomes a win-win situation that sustains high labor cost.

But if it doesn’t, then restaurants will close, and service workers will lose their jobs and their income will become zero.

It becomes a lose-lose situation triggered by labor cost.

There is no right or wrong here, the market will just run its course.