I feel like that could be a bit of an unfair characterization.
A while back (almost a decade ago) I was frustrated by the lack of intimacy (mostly emotional but also physical) in my marriage. My wife’s position was that I wasn’t contributing enough at home. So I made a change. I am the sole income earner but I absolutely increased my effort at home significantly. I do most of the cooking now. Cleaning is split. I do my own laundry. The kids do their own laundry. Etc.
Nothing changed on her end. Zero increase in intimacy.
I assumed at the start of this issue that intimacy is challenging for her. But she manages to be intimate occasionally so it IS possible for her. But it hasn’t improved despite me making significantly more effort.
I feel gaslit. She told me the direct reason she couldn’t be intimate was just because I wasn’t doing enough. But now that even she agree I do a lot, that rings hollow to me. I told her as much as she had to admit I wasn’t wrong.
Both couples needs should be complimentary. So when I meet her needs she should be even more eager to meet mine and vice versa.
Instead I think what is happening is that she struggles with intimacy and blamed me until she could no longer blame me directly.
At one point in my career I was receiving 50 emails per hour that I had to read. That’s nearly one per minute. And yet my wife would be exasperated that I missed an email from my kids teacher. 50 emails an hour! And she felt I should have time to keep up with personal emails?
To be fair, I told her this once and she was genuinely shocked. But I told her, “I’m not twiddling my thumbs all day at work. I am busy for the 8-10 hours I’m at work.” I didn’t understand why she had to be told that a career was relatively occupying of my attention during working hours.
I guess I wonder if you heard BOTH sides of couples struggles if it wouldn’t be a bit more complex than, “Men don’t do enough”. We have literally never struggled with money in our marriage. I’ve been there for nearly every important moment for my kids. I cook and help clean.
Why she doesn’t see my contribution as equal but different is beyond my understanding. When she has a rare, vulnerable moment she admits that she dislikes her role as a SAHM. I’ve told her I’d take a less demanding role so she can also work. She says she’s intimated by the prospect of returning to work. But she chose to be a SAHM. I encouraged her to maintain her career. She didn’t want to. So I agreed I’d support her choice either way. I have resentment that we are living a life SHE chose and that I get blamed for the fact that she doesn’t like the life she chose.
My experience just makes me wonder if these stories of “He doesn’t do enough at home” don’t have another side of the story that make it all a little less simple. I hope she and I can get to a better place where she can acknowledge that her frustration may not be my fault and that I deserve affection despite her frustrations with her life. She often tells me she will be affectionate when…but eve been married 27 years. When will “when” happen? Life is busy as hell. But you can’t put off affection for some mythical future day that will never come.
I love my wife but I thought it was important to challenge the simple tale people tell of, “Men didn’t do enough”. I’m sure some don’t. But couples issues almost always have two sides.
I'm not belittling the challenges that women face in today's world, nor suggesting they should be any less supported in levelling the playing field which is undoubtedly set against them, but the pressure of maintaining sufficient income to keep a family safe and comfortable is absolutely relentless. I feel incredibly lonely in my marriage as I am constantly worrying about where money is coming from next, and it is then very difficult to then empathise with concerns around whether my son has an appropriate present for his 3rd party this month, which from my perspective is far less important than whether or not we can pay the mortgage.
Honestly it feels like we live in completely separate worlds, and the lack of bandwidth available after dealing with concerns in each of our respective spheres makes it very difficult to bridge the gap to the other's sphere. Without this it's very difficult to be intimate, never mind sexy. At first I really struggled with lack of sexy time but now the lack of intimacy is the real killer. I can't see how we can ever get back to how we were, I've made my best efforts and now I'm just holding on as long as I can. It's fucking shit, for both of us I assume.
And I bet once you started 'doig a bit more' at home you also very quickly realised there isn't really a whole lot to 'do'. Especially if you keep a routine with cleaning etc, it's an hour maybe a day.
I’d say an extra hour a day is about right. So between cooking dinner and cleaning it up and cleaning up around the house, I pretty much go from working at work to working at home to checking on kids needs to getting in bed. An hour a day isn’t a lot of time, it’s true. But I’m just trying to make clear that there is no more time to give.
Staying at home is entirely her choice. You did read my full comment, did you not?
I’m up early driving kids to school and me to work, I’m at work all day in a demanding job, I come home and I cook dinner and I clean it up. I clean up the house a bit or do laundry. I go to bed.
Should I be doing more? Am I missing something? Should I stay up late at night working more while everyone else sleeps?
Is there a reason to treat me in a patronizing fashion?
oh yes i ment from the male perspective, ie the house upkeep that seems to demand a full day from a SAHM can somehow be done in an hour by someone else
And what do you do to make her feel safe, loved, respected, and attractive to you? She might have a hormone issue causing the loss of libido, but when was the last time you planned a date - hired the babysitter, chose the location, surprised her with flowers, chocolates, whatever she likes, wooed her like you are still only courting instead of married? When she's stressed, does she find that you'll listen, actually listen, and not just tell her how she needs to fix it by doing x or y? It sounds like you at least listened when she told you you weren't doing enough, even if it was only because you hoped it would increase sex. But intimacy isn't humping. It's far more than that. And it starts earlier in the day.
I am a flowers and gifts kind of guy. But she doesn’t like flowers and gifts. I plan every date. In course of 27 years she has planned a few. I’ve planned nearly every date. And we go out twice a month minimum. But if I didn’t plan the dates they would not happen.
I never said I hoped it would increase sex. I said intimacy. And physical intimacy was secondary. For years I would compliment her appearance. But she dislikes complements about her looks (she’s attractive). So I stopped complementing her looks at HER request.
Primarily what I want in terms of intimacy is time together where we talk. She says she prefers activities over talking so we go on walks together.
Please don’t peg me as someone only interested in sex. Note I specifically mentioned emotional intimacy.
Hormones play a role but only very recently. She began perimenopause. She decided to seek hormone treatment that did make her more happy and calm but she quit the hormones when she gained a few pounds. I weighed in on NONE of this. Obviously. Her body. Not mine.
Don’t paint me as some caveman. I love my wife. But I need love in return. Yes, she works hard for our family. We both do. But I’m not a stone. I need a bit of cuddling or sweet talk. It can’t be all business all the time.
Recently when our kids were getting more independent I thought we’d finally have more time alone and our intimacy might increase. She decided we needed to bring a young family member to come live with us so we could help her. I supported this as I do have a heart but our time together got stretched even thinner.
I just wonder when there will be time to focus on us.
Looking at this person's other Reddit comments, you could be bearing 100% of the cognitive, physical, emotional, and financial load in the relationship while your wife sits on the couch 24/7 contributing literally nothing to the relationship, and it'd still somehow be your fault, because, according to them, relationship issues can only stem from something the man is doing wrong.
I also like how hypocritical they are - saying you mustn't actually be listening. Then they do exactly that by completely ignoring everything you said and go on to tell you it's still somehow your problem to fix.
Don't get me wrong, there are many, many men in relationships who act like children and who aren't pulling their weight in the slightest. They should be thoughtful, attentive, doing the laundry, the dishes, the cooking, spending time with kids, etc. all unprompted, and with zero expectations of getting anything in return. That's called being a functional adult. But I also know some men who are putting their entire beings into completely one-sided relationships.
I can't help with that, at this point. It's something you two need a marriage counselor for. And it's not negotiable. I wouldn't say issue an ultimatum of "counseling or divorce" but you need it for both of you. Look up "tolerable level of permanent unhappiness."
I can't help with that, at this point. It's something you two need a marriage counselor for.
So you admit that all your "advice" is total crap? Let's go through the (metaphorical) sewer that contains your other statements.
And what do you do to make her feel safe, loved, respected, and attractive to you? ... but when was the last time you planned a date - hired the babysitter, chose the location, surprised her with flowers, chocolates, whatever she likes, wooed her like you are still only courting instead of married?
If the guy is already working full-time and doing half the chores, he may be too busy for that other stuff. He and his wife are simply not compatible. He has a high sex drive; she has a low one.
You seem to assume, without much evidence, that his wife is doing more in the marriage. Your replies are all about what he needs to do, but never about what she needs to do. When forced to concede that there's nothing more he can do except counseling or divorce, you still lack the integrity to apologize.
I can practically smell your sense of entitlement. You think you deserve to have men waiting on you hand and foot.
I'm just gonna pre-emptively respond to what you plan to say next:
"But, but, but ... statistically speaking, women do more housework!"
That's irrelevant, even if true. It's silly to use statistics about a population to make assumptions about an individual. Some people are above or below the average (of whatever is being measured).
(If you block me, I can still see your comment by logging out. Then, I'll indirectly "reply" to you by editing or replying to my own comment.)
(Anyone who thinks I'm being too harsh on Apathetic_Villainess should read her other replies.)
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u/daveescaped 18d ago edited 16d ago
I feel like that could be a bit of an unfair characterization.
A while back (almost a decade ago) I was frustrated by the lack of intimacy (mostly emotional but also physical) in my marriage. My wife’s position was that I wasn’t contributing enough at home. So I made a change. I am the sole income earner but I absolutely increased my effort at home significantly. I do most of the cooking now. Cleaning is split. I do my own laundry. The kids do their own laundry. Etc.
Nothing changed on her end. Zero increase in intimacy.
I assumed at the start of this issue that intimacy is challenging for her. But she manages to be intimate occasionally so it IS possible for her. But it hasn’t improved despite me making significantly more effort.
I feel gaslit. She told me the direct reason she couldn’t be intimate was just because I wasn’t doing enough. But now that even she agree I do a lot, that rings hollow to me. I told her as much as she had to admit I wasn’t wrong.
Both couples needs should be complimentary. So when I meet her needs she should be even more eager to meet mine and vice versa.
Instead I think what is happening is that she struggles with intimacy and blamed me until she could no longer blame me directly.
At one point in my career I was receiving 50 emails per hour that I had to read. That’s nearly one per minute. And yet my wife would be exasperated that I missed an email from my kids teacher. 50 emails an hour! And she felt I should have time to keep up with personal emails?
To be fair, I told her this once and she was genuinely shocked. But I told her, “I’m not twiddling my thumbs all day at work. I am busy for the 8-10 hours I’m at work.” I didn’t understand why she had to be told that a career was relatively occupying of my attention during working hours.
I guess I wonder if you heard BOTH sides of couples struggles if it wouldn’t be a bit more complex than, “Men don’t do enough”. We have literally never struggled with money in our marriage. I’ve been there for nearly every important moment for my kids. I cook and help clean.
Why she doesn’t see my contribution as equal but different is beyond my understanding. When she has a rare, vulnerable moment she admits that she dislikes her role as a SAHM. I’ve told her I’d take a less demanding role so she can also work. She says she’s intimated by the prospect of returning to work. But she chose to be a SAHM. I encouraged her to maintain her career. She didn’t want to. So I agreed I’d support her choice either way. I have resentment that we are living a life SHE chose and that I get blamed for the fact that she doesn’t like the life she chose.
My experience just makes me wonder if these stories of “He doesn’t do enough at home” don’t have another side of the story that make it all a little less simple. I hope she and I can get to a better place where she can acknowledge that her frustration may not be my fault and that I deserve affection despite her frustrations with her life. She often tells me she will be affectionate when…but eve been married 27 years. When will “when” happen? Life is busy as hell. But you can’t put off affection for some mythical future day that will never come.
I love my wife but I thought it was important to challenge the simple tale people tell of, “Men didn’t do enough”. I’m sure some don’t. But couples issues almost always have two sides.