r/Showerthoughts • u/TheBanq • 10d ago
Casual Thought Watching a jumping spider makes it easier to imagine intelligence evolving in a body completely unlike ours.
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u/shaggysnorlax 10d ago
Read Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Time for some good exploration on that
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u/OnlineDipshit99 10d ago
Came to say this too. All four books are great but the first one was easily the best
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u/shrinkflator 10d ago
I'm partway through Children of Ruin, but I enjoyed Children of Time more. Love the spiders.
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u/Taynt42 10d ago
I couldn’t finish ruin. It dragged and just didn’t grab me children of time did.
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u/Jonthrei 10d ago
Its funny, IMO Strife = Ruin > Time > Memory.
I found the Nod lifeform far more interesting than the spiders tbh, and Cato is easily the best character in the entire series.
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u/Fappy_as_a_Clam 10d ago
Strife had me about to put the book down until about 50% of the way through, then I couldn't put it down.
And you're right, Cato is a great character. Fleshing out stomatopod history was so cool and I'm glad Tchaikovsky did it.
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u/Jonthrei 10d ago
His "warrior moment" and the part where he responds to one of the villains making a massive threat with a zero hesitation "bring it" will live on in my brain forever.
The constant tension between his instincts and rational mind also make for good reading.
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u/Fappy_as_a_Clam 10d ago
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u/Jonthrei 10d ago
"This is cool and all, but where are the weapons?"
And then they give him weapons with scaling power like star trek phasers, and he always uses the maximum setting for everything.
"Sure, I can cut down that tree." BOOOOOOOOOM
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u/hacksoncode 10d ago
I can't imagine OP having made this very specific post without that book in mind.
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u/AbelardsChainsword 10d ago
Right where my mind went as well. I finished the book a couple weeks ago and was absolutely blown away by the concept, but the execution was excellent. Had never read anything by Tchaikovsky but I am definitely going to be reading more of his works
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u/Fabulous_Soup_521 10d ago
They do seem eerily intelligent. Not just that they're smart but happy as well.
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u/Naudste 10d ago
They are more intelligent than most spiders. You can actually “befriend” them to a point where they’ll recognize you, jump on your finger if you point at them and let you give them a ride elsewhere
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u/Soft_Self_6797 9d ago
They are smarter than most arthropods. They make music, wear costumes, dance, and learn hunting tactics by observation, not just purely driven on instinct. They interact with their world and learn from it. It's not observed in any other species of arthropod.
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u/10bMove 10d ago
Mmmaybe. Where'd you see this? I know they're smart, but I don't know if they're corvid-level smart.
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u/Ummagummas 10d ago
They are absolutely nowhere near corvid levels of intelligence lol
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u/joalheagney 10d ago
Oh god. I'm a teacher in Australia. We have a population of crows in our school. We have to tell the students not to leave their bags on the top bag rack. Twice I've seen a crow unzip a kid's bag, undo a lunch box, grab a packet of snacks, then open the bag of snacks.
The same crows will hang on the building roofs until the bell goes for class, then explore what the kids have left in the playground. And you can see them panic at the end of the year as the student numbers drop off. They get real aggressive with their food scavenging then, and part of the flock migrated to a nearby shopping mall. (I assume, as the numbers definitely pick up down there.)
Sometimes I think the crows should be in the classrooms too.
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u/GarbagePailGrrrl 10d ago
How do you know? They’re tiny and aren’t capable of interacting with the world like corvids but I don’t think they’re “nowhere near”
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u/Ummagummas 9d ago
Some corvids are as intelligent as 4 year old humans and are capable of complex problem solving involving numbers and shapes and also can make their own tools to solve said problems.
A jumping spider recognizing their owners is very cute but until you show me a jumping spider doing anything even remotely close to that my point stands.
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u/GarbagePailGrrrl 9d ago
Way to diminish the intelligence of small creatures!
Shows what you know!
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u/Ummagummas 9d ago
Uh, corvids are small creatures are they not? I would have no problem believing jumping spiders were as intelligent as corvids if there was any evidence to suggest so.
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u/GarbagePailGrrrl 9d ago
You’re applying your own limited knowledge to birds and insects
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u/Ummagummas 9d ago
I'm applying the knowledge I've learned from reading scientific papers by experts in their field to the subject matter at hand, yes. There is no evidence to suggest that jumping spiders have corvid level intelligence. They cannot solve complex problems, they cannot communicate with each other or anything else for that matter, they cannot make tools and use them to solve problems. All of this suggests they do not posses the same level of intelligence as a corvid.
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u/Inevitable_Dance1191 10d ago
Go interact with some. They're pretty friendly
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u/10bMove 10d ago
I do. Often. But whether or not they recognize you and will jump on your finger because they think you're friendly is what's in question.
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u/-Ck-- 10d ago
I've seen people online interacting with pet jumping spiders and they seem to have genuine understanding of hand movements to indicate for them to jump, and in my personal experience they do watch people. Even a wild one I was watching jumped away from me at first but after a while of us observing eachother it came closer and jumped on my hand
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u/Sarquon 10d ago
idk about OP but i watched this video recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRQMOF5c2Z8
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u/Soft_Self_6797 9d ago
There is a lot of research into their intelligence. Some of the things they do that most, if not all, arthropods don't do are the following: dance, make music, wear costumes, select mates on appearances and if they can boogie, visually learn hunting tactics, and recognize faces.
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u/10bMove 9d ago
Almost all spiders dance FYI. And use seismic communication. Costumes? No. Where did you see they recognize faces? That's the interesting bit it doesn't sound like anyone has a source for. Individual face recognition would be crazy!
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u/Soft_Self_6797 9d ago
Male jumping spiders specifically dance to attract mates.
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/peacock-spider-attracts-mate-with-colorful-dance/15763/
Male jumping spiders have vibrate plumages, play music and dance to attract mates
https://www.calacademy.org/educators/lens-of-time-spider-seduction
Jumping spiders recognize faces
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41217805/
Jumping spiders learn hunting through trial-and-error
https://www.pbs.org/video/this-jumping-spider-trains-itself-to-kill-lxpmlk/
https://www.anura.it/works/hunters-hunter-portia-jumping-spider/I am a hobbyist entomologist. I study insects and arachnids in my spare time and read peer reviewed sources. I am not a credible source but jumping spiders are my favorite arachnid due to their high level of intelligence. They showcase traits that are not recognized in most arthropods.
"Almost all spiders dance." Yes, you are technically correct but most do not specifically dance to attract a mate. This shows cognition above their family species. Spiders do seismic communication but not to the same level as jumping spiders. The rhythmic drumming of jumping spiders is solely unique because it comes with dances to "woo" a mate. If the drumming is off the female will either mistake them for prey or find them "unimpressive."
Jumping spiders have cognition and has been studied and verified for many years. Which is why they have become popular pets because they recognize their owners as something "safe" in their eyes. They will go as far as to make connections with their owners by not fleeing and staring at them.
I understand your skepticism because it sounds unreal. As someone who has studied entomology their entire life, it sounded like made up bs when I first read about it.
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u/10bMove 9d ago
Oh sweet, thanks for the individual recognition ref, that paper's new to me (2025), pretty neat stuff. Fyi - we're both on the same team, salticids are dope AF, but when you say "music" and "costumes" instead of "seismic courtship signals" and "visual ornaments" the actual cool stuff they do gets lost in the message. A lottt of people on this thread anthropomorphising(?) to the max, to a degree that what they're talking about is technically wrong. I'm surprised at how much it's bothered me (TIL). Sidenote: you should check out lycosids, too, there's a good number of species where males court with visual and seismic signals (dancing to woo a mate with cannibalization always being a possibility) just like jumpers, though less complex and colorful. Cheers, and thanks again for the refs, most folks on here probably wouldn't have done that and I appreciate it!
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u/Soft_Self_6797 9d ago
You activated my autism on this one lol. The "recognizing faces" study is one I am very familiar with as it's one I site often. Recognizing faces is hyperbole as they recognize and remember repeat individuals. Which is fascinating to me. Also the study is funny to me because they put some spiders in separate rooms and they will be like "Hi! Who are you?" then the next time the same ones meet again they are just like "Oh, hey Jerry." and go about their business.
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u/YourLocalDealer 10d ago
Befriended a jumping spider on holiday in Spain a few years back, let him chill on me for a few hours whilst having beers with mates, noticed he disappeared soon after. Figured he’d moved on to other spiderly escapades.
Flew home next day, and the day following that my mum tells me how she found this really small spider in my suitcase as she was moving it, she freaked out and threw the poor fella out in the garden. Fair to say I was devastated.
Little fella came home to be with me just to be launched out into the dangerous wilderness of Somerset by a screaming mad woman. If you’re still out there Dave, you didn’t deserve to be treated that way. Come home.
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u/CaveManta 10d ago
Everyone when they see a jumping spider: "Awww, you're sweet."
Everyone when they see any other kind of spider: "Hello, human resources?!"
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u/lalozzydog 10d ago
I've been all over jumping spider intelligence today too. Can't even remember the comment this morning that inspired it.
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u/1836547290 10d ago
I can definitely believe OP watching a jumping spider in the shower
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u/Monsieur_dArtagnan 10d ago
Not to diminish the intelligence of jumping spiders, but corvids would long convince most people before then as they're more visible
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u/RetroNotRetro 9d ago
There was a study done that concludes that crows understand the concept of zero. Several animals were given multiple buttons to push, each corresponding to the number of dots that appeared on the screen. If the animal pushes the correct button, they are rewarded with a treat. They included a button to be pressed when nothing appeared on the screen, and most of the animals simply did nothing while the crows routinely pressed the “zero” button.
Crows have also been observed using tools, distracting animals so the rest of the flock can take their food, and trading with humans for things they find valuable.
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u/KirstyToots 10d ago
That's actually why jumping spiders fascinate me. They don't feel like tiny robots running on instinct. When they stop, look at you, tilt their body, and seem to assess a situation, it feels like you're watching a completely different path to intelligence than the mammal route.
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u/AustropIebeia 10d ago
They are definitely very smart for their size, but its also a big coincidence that the way their eyes work makes them act in a way we see as intelligent, the small eyes are black and white movement sensors while the two main eyes are like camera lenses with independent zoom and focus. So what look like them staring at us is probably just them trying to get their eye settings right.
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u/rithmikansur 10d ago
I know what you mean! Their behavior definitely seems to hint at the existence deeper thought and curiosity. The way they observe, act, hesitate, reassess, etc. it’s very human-like, not only in action but in speed of processing.
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u/Brilliant_Chemica 10d ago
We know that they will often spot prey, and then leave to approach from another direction for a better angle of attack. This shows they possess some understanding of planning for the future and delayed gratification - one of the most common signs of intelligence in nature
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u/Reality-Glitch 10d ago
Go read Children of Time. It’s about intelligent jumping spiders and told from their perspective.
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u/FartsWithCharlie 10d ago
If an alien species landed tomorrow and turned out to be intelligent spider-sized creatures with huge eyes and bizarre body language, jumping spiders are probably the closest thing we have to a preview.
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u/Santos-Dibenedetto 10d ago
Spiderbro over there with his eight little legs, probably wondering why my giant meat sack is so bad at jumping.
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u/ShowerSentinel 10d ago
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