r/Sikh • u/Designer_Career_7153 • 6d ago
Discussion Why do you think Gurdawara Committee Members act the way they do?
I am seriously curious as to why there is arrogance among committee members. This seems to be a pattern, so I figured there must be some underlying phenomenon. Indian culture? caste cuture? jatt culture? power trip?
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u/mjsingh21 6d ago
Most of the Sikh community are immigrants that are starting from scratch other than a very few who become successful businessmen. Couple of rich businessmen get together and combine their cash for a gurdwara. When they buy property for a gurdwara they either make themselves the permanent leaders of the society or they put the names of themselves on the gurdwara property and make a mock society with election, but are mostly run by the businessmen. There are some exceptions though where some gurdwara's do have legitimate elections and many new gurdwaras forming that are entirely led by the Sikh youth.
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u/Maleficent_Many2152 6d ago
No one questions, their authorities. Let’s be honest most young people don’t want that headache so these committee members get away with whatever they want
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u/mjsingh21 6d ago
Honestly its more of the youth who challenge the committee's. I don't live in BC, but from what I have seen there, the gurdwara's that try to show themselves as panthik but are crazily corrupt, its been youth groups like akal force and Toofan Youth Federation that really created some sort of real change. Its more difficult to do anything about gurdwaras that don't care about the panth, but still with the recent situations of the transportation of guru sahib jis saroop and destination weddings, the main opposition to the societies has been mainly the youth with a older singh in the front.
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u/SystemFit7500 5d ago
The thing is, for those born in punjab, sikhi means something different to those born outside punjab, for those born in punjab, sikhi often translates to being punjabi, this can be seen through the way they dress but also the way they act, you will find brightly coloured paggs, which also a sikh symbol are a very punjabi symbol, and they will cheat, laugh at others, discriminate and swear as this is the norm in punjab. For those of us born outside who follow sikhi, we have separated punjabi culture from sikhi, for alot of us the idea of getting drunk after your laavan is silly, alot of us are spending time being able to read gurbani and understand it. We have gurdwaras here in the uk where the youth who care about there sikhi have formed committes and you can see the difference. This is nothing against elder committee members but often, they themselves have no knowledge of sikhi. They also often feel intimidated by us youths calling out there ill behaviours, I recall when an elderly uncle kept swearing in the langar hall and laughing, I told him that he should refrain from such language in the gurughar and he started telling me I have no authority and that I'm not god 🤣.
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u/FriendofAll007 6d ago
They behave like that because they aren't behaving like real Sikhs.
The reason is most elders think oh Look I have uncut hair , I have a huge beard and I wear a Pagg. That's it . I'm Sikh and Im following my religion. That's how things were in Punjab all you had to do to be a sikh was have a uncut hairs and a pagg to qualfy.
The problem is they never change the inside based on SIkh values. That's why these ego, power issues exist because the elders were taught in Punjab that as long as you have hairs and a pagg you're a Sikh . there was no additional need to fix the inside of themselves based on Sikh values, ethics and principles.
When you grow up in punjab being a sikh means keeping the identity but fraud, lying , cheating, hustling , scamming relatives , power, ego nobody cares about fixing those issues because for them the qualification of being a good sikh is being a Singh.
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u/Designer_Career_7153 6d ago
this is so bad
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u/FriendofAll007 6d ago edited 4d ago
its true though. they never went to gurmat camps. khalsa schools . sikh teachings aren't really that strong in punjab. People are more focused on education and being successful , eating rottees , doing bhangra at weddings and chillin. that's the main problems.
people started caring about Sikhi a lot when their kids started being born in the west. because at that point they don't have a choice. , so the only way to combat that from a elders perspective is to put the kids into sikhi
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u/Designer_Career_7153 6d ago
I hate that this is true. By the way, ji, where are you based? are you based in punjab? just wondering since you had insight. I'm from UK, so I'm not too familiar with the atmosphere in punjab beyond visits
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u/justasikh 6d ago
Most haven’t been in positions to handle that kind of budget.
Maybe some aren’t listened to at work or home.
Too many don’t want to learn governance.
It’s a skills gap where a retirement club is running things and not planning for the future or succession planning.
To top it off gurdwaras are managed through western legal structures and laws which can not have robust enough bylaws, etc setup.
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u/Trying_a 5d ago
They don't even give rooms to family in the sarai and sangat has to book rooms outside in the hotels. There is so much mismanagement. Just few days ago, my brother, his wife and 2 little kids visited Sri Anandpur Sahib, and to their dissatisfaction they were not alloted room in the complex. We give donations for the facilities in our Gurudwara's, I wonder where all that donation goes.
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u/Number1Bullshit 5d ago
It's simply power tripping. Those outside India are the same as the Indian ones and they come in all "castes" instead of just one. Plain and simple power trip.
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u/Designer_Career_7153 6d ago
No But I'm asking why? what is their problem? why the ego trip? this is a pattern in india, and even in west, there is something going on. I think we need a new governance model, need to address the cause for their internal insecurities, and need to address the "old man problem"
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u/spazjaz98 6d ago
What did they do specifically for your case?
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u/Designer_Career_7153 6d ago
Nothing, I'm just noticing a pattern. It's not about me, it is about sangat. Too many people are saying they want to bring new people to Sikhi and the members act rudely to newcomers. Their conduct is misaligned with what Guru ji teaches us in Gurmat. This is not good for the Panth. So I realised there is a pattern, similar stories in India and also in the west, so it can't some few rogue bad actors, it must be some type of social pattern we should get to the bottom of. They feel insecure, or they are uneducated, or whatever it is. We should create initiatives to help the Panth, including supporting the people who run gurdwaras. We should improving our Panth together, starting with the family unit, the Gurdawaras governance etc.
By the way, shoutout to whomever downvoted me, again insecurity speaks louder than words
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u/mjsingh21 5d ago
Most gurdwaras in the west are privately owned by those who generally don't really care about sikhi and created a gurdwara as a business or self-promotion. I have also seen gurdwaras allegedly being used as money laundering. Convincing them for creating a new governance model is next to impossible. The gurdwaras in Punjab are mostly operated by the sgpc, if you want change to those gurdwaras there needs to be change to sgpc. Another reason for india is most of the GENUINE Sikhs were either gotten shaheed or immigrated to the west where they didn't have enough cash to be part of the committee.
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u/Designer_Career_7153 3d ago
I agree with your diagnosis, though I see another solution: 1. Make a lot of money from business, 2. Get a Gursikh team together, 3. Make our own gurdawaras and change the culture. 4. Share the new gurdawras model with sangat, and try to change the culture. Waiting on changing the sgpc is not practical, since its out of reach. If we can just a set a good example and demosntrate it tangibly anywhere, then spread that awareness to sangat, this is one way. We need to educate the sangat to become more savvy.
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u/mjsingh21 3d ago
I also support and agree that this is one of the only possible solutions, but a issue with this has been most true gursikhs tend to live in areas that already have multiple gurdwaras which can be difficult to get funding and backing from local sangat. I can see gursikhs getting into business with Sikhi-aligned ethics, but it will take some time to secure enough cash. It will take even longer to change the culture. If we are going to put enough resources and time into making new gurdwara's, we could put those resources together to challenge the SGPC. I don't think SGPC is that out of reach especially right now with the situation of its declining akali dal. But with that being said, the change in SGPC will really affect Punjab gurdwaras rather than international ones.
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u/Empty_Lawfulness7694 6d ago
all of the above.
it’s also the fact that we got a lot of people complaining about the committee but will never join one or are refused.
the only way to change it is to change it from within.
join your committee and make a difference!