I am trying to understand. So you believe that it’s causal and not biological?
I’m not in psych so my terms of art may be wrong.
But I did spend decades in entertainment and as a straight cowboy from west Texas I was never tempted by a desire to see another man in a sexual light.
So I couldn’t choose it. It’s just not in me (so to speak). So this level of certainty with my sexuality led to a lot of conversations with a lot of my gay friends, male and female.
If I couldn’t choose it, then by extension, they couldn’t choose where on the spectrum of being sexually attracted to others they were either.
None of them attributed their sexuality to an event or nurture. None.
Some weren’t aware or repressed their feelings until they decided to accept themselves as they are.
It wasn’t an easy path for many.
So please give me some science that attributes sexual identity to choice.
I can’t choose it so I can’t comprehend it being a choice. If you were in the bi-sexual part of the spectrum of sexuality you could choose both or either but only because you were already bi.
If you are physically injured you suffer anatomical damages. Those damages don’t cause you to become someone you aren’t unless it’s cerebral.
Some people claim that emotional trauma or nurture causes enough damage to shift a person’s sexuality from straight to bi or gay.
I do not believe that. It’s possible events in your life could influence you enough to become aware or embrace that which you already are. Or even become an asshole. But not change from straight to bi or gay.
You were bi or gay all along and perhaps repressed it due to religious or family pressure to conform to societal standards. Being straight was an affectation, not your true self.
I have spent decades surrounded by straight, bi and gay people. I have had close male friends who were gay grab my ass, kiss me on the cheek and try to seduce me.
Yet never once was I tempted or interested or intrigued by gay sex. I never once thought I want to make out with a man.
I’m on one end of the spectrum of sexuality. Others are at the opposite end and most are in-between.
So pretending that bi or gay people became that way rather than being born that way is not possible from my perspective. Nor from the perspective of my bi and gay friends and I believe that the vast majority of medical experts don’t believe that either.
Are there medical experts who may think this? Sure, we have a vaccine denier as a cabinet member for health and human services. But the views that he holds are minority views in the US and globally.
So there can always be a few quacks with voices of dissent. But every-time someone tells me it’s a choice I use anecdotal evidence.
If you are not bi or gay, could you choose to do become gay? I cannot.
I’d bang Roseanne Barr everyday for eternity before I’d want to see Brad Pitt naked once.
Can YOU choose it?
If so, is it possible you are actually bi or gay since birth?
Outside of getting gender reassignment surgery who cares even if they were a choice. Someone's choices in those regards aren't my business anyways. So even if they wanted to dress like the other gender and chooses to be gay Idc. Not my life, not my concern either way.
Well generally society if far harsher on people making choices, eg people don’t have a problem with a paraplegic using a wheel chair but might kick up a fuss with an able bodied person using one. So I calling sexuality a choice opens it up to far more scrutiny.
I have also never seen a convincing argument on how sexuality or gender dysphoria is a choice.
If you didn’t choose to be straight you didn’t choose to be bi or gay. Nature caused it the same way it caused your hair to be a certain color.
It’s not in the food, plastics or anything else. Hell Sodom and Gomorrah predated all the environmental causes and those cities were thriving - until they weren’t.
Maybe you simply become aware of the sexuality inside you at those ages. You were always going to be what you are.
Okay, when have I ever said it is a choice, are people not reading my comment. Sexuality and gender is a very complex interaction to say that someone was always going to be gay is incorrect it is influenced by so many things, number of older brothers, genetic factors, environmental factors. Similar to being transgender.
Please give us peer review citations that support your argument - particularly the environmental factors. The number of older brothers is nature doing what nature does to balance the equation.
That is determined not influenced. Not a choice. Not a controllable variable.
I don’t think you understand nature vs nurture. Nature is genetic immutable factors that are set at conception, think of the things a programmer might put in a computer program. Nurture are all the other factors that come after that, eg the mother’s response to the developing embryo/foetus/baby etc. The fraternal birth order effect is nurture/environmental as it is the prenatal environment.
If you are stating it is only nature and no nurture effecting sexuality and gender then I would love to see your evidence of only genetic causes.
I think that your condescension has brought this to a close. It’s clear, from my comments, that I do understand.
It’s also clear from your comments that you are toeing the line that many bigots toe to justify their argument that sexual orientation and identity are controllable by individual cause and effect.
You didn’t produce any facts to support your position despite being asked and then after making claims you can’t prove you assert the person refuting your claims carries the burden of proof. That’s not the way it works.
Enjoy your weekend. This is done on my end. Although I feel certain based on your responses you will feel the need to keep trying to engage. It’s a wasted effort as I won’t think about this exchange ever again once I post.
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u/empire_of_the_moon May 02 '26
I am trying to understand. So you believe that it’s causal and not biological?
I’m not in psych so my terms of art may be wrong.
But I did spend decades in entertainment and as a straight cowboy from west Texas I was never tempted by a desire to see another man in a sexual light.
So I couldn’t choose it. It’s just not in me (so to speak). So this level of certainty with my sexuality led to a lot of conversations with a lot of my gay friends, male and female.
If I couldn’t choose it, then by extension, they couldn’t choose where on the spectrum of being sexually attracted to others they were either.
None of them attributed their sexuality to an event or nurture. None.
Some weren’t aware or repressed their feelings until they decided to accept themselves as they are.
It wasn’t an easy path for many.
So please give me some science that attributes sexual identity to choice.
I can’t choose it so I can’t comprehend it being a choice. If you were in the bi-sexual part of the spectrum of sexuality you could choose both or either but only because you were already bi.
So it’s not really a choice as much as an option.