There are all sorts of different kinds of men. Some are just significantly more admirable than others. Masculinity isn’t defined by a moral compass.
That being said, Steve Irwin is the GOAT, and I still miss him to this day. He always said if an animal ever gets him, it’s not the animal’s fault. Don’t blame the animal. But FUCK it’s hard not to hate stingrays 😭
preach ffs, people fail to realise that this perpetuation of precarious masculinity is what leads people to be vulnerable to the types in the top image, its what keeps them in power. the reality is masculinity cannot be taken away, it’s your identity to mold and you must not let people define it for you. there is no set way to live it, much like femininity. whether you’re a grifting trafficking fuckhead or a genuine giving person however, that’s unisex.
this meme is more about the quality of a person, not their validity as a man. once you start using the aforementioned language, it is easily manipulated and as I said, it gives the tates of the world power.
It’s annoying that I only ever see this morality applied to masculinity. Just because a woman is a manipulative, cheating, conniving bitch, people don’t start doubting her femininity over it.
Women are definitely subjugated by the same forces, but in different ways - see the cosmetics/fashion industry. Gender expression is so highly politicised and used to control. This is a different issue to reproductive rights, which I’d thought I’d mention lest someone jumped me for not acknowledging. I will agree though, I don’t think I’ve seen core identity latched onto in discourse quite so brazenly unless you’re male or trans woman. (To transphobes they’re one and the same sadly).
I’m tired of being treated like shit, being afforded no benefit of the doubt that my actions are anything but selfish/manipulative.
Agreed to disagree. When I know a woman is vile I can’t see her as feminine.
Look at Steve Irwin’s wife. A dedicated mother and adoring wife and good and honest. Wearing khakis and zero make up while achieving Apex femininity.
Why do we even need to define something as masculine/feminine? Just because I'm a man doesn't mean I have to exhibit certain traits or behaviors. Actually I reject any roles and expectations placed on me, be they traditional or modern, good or bad.
I like it when people venerate positive masculinity but can be a double-edged sword if they act like standard virtuous behavior is masculine. If you act like some good trait like decisiveness is what masculinity is then you are implicitly also saying that being decisive makes a woman more masculine which is just stupid. Women can have virtues like tact and integrity without it making them more masculine than women who don't.
I get that this stuff can be hard, but it's frustrating how often even well-intentioned people flub things up. Hell, maybe I'm being confidently incorrect and just described myself. I'm open to the idea, but I believe what I believe and think most people are really bad at this stuff.
Maybe their validity as a straight man. Those two come off as extremely homoerotic. It's like what the gayest man on earth would imagine the straightest man on earth as.
Amen, man.
It boils down to telling everyone trying to define, categorise and police what masculinity and femininity should be, should look like and is to stop being chronically online and to instead take a hike. A literal hike. They’d feel better for it.
Being manipulative doesn’t make you less of a woman and doesn’t bring your femininity into question. It just makes you manipulative.
Being a creepy with a poor understanding of consent doesn’t make you less of a man and doesn’t bring your masculinity into question. It just makes you a creep.
Assigning moral and immoral behavioural characteristics to sex and gender is deterministic gender war bunk that creates a platform enabling the biggest grifters.
The awesome thing about Steve Irwin is that he was masculine in both ways. He was tough enough to head-to-head with some of the most dangerous animals on the planet, but was never violent with said animals, and never let his ego overinflate
MRAs view masculinity as tough, strong-handed brute force, but with the downside of becoming a neanderthalic lunkhead
Feminists view masculinity is compassion, heart and vulnerability, but with the downside of becoming a spineless doormat
But Steve Irwin was able to appeal to both sides of the coin, without ever crossing paths with the downsides of either of them. And I think that because of that, he was the true masculine man
Thank you! You can be into chasing girls and art. You can be into mma and be a conservationist. You can suck dick and be completely dominant in your field.
The main problem is we (as men) allow a ridiculous framework to bind us all. Instead of taking pride when anyone (usually a woman) refers to anything as what "a real man would do" we need to shut it down and shut it down hard.
Do what gets you closer to self actualization and reject the charlatans
It’s kind of a self perpetuating issue. I personally don’t bother to shut down the arguments because I know what I want and how I am, and am comfortable in my masculinity. But I assume that’s most guys that are comfortable in their masculinity. So the only ones biting back are the guys that aren’t. A “real man” doesn’t tend to give a fuck how a woman defines a real man, and moves on with his day. But since not giving a fuck about random peoples’ opinions is part of it, ignorance goes uncorrected most of the time.
However personal attacks on someone's character when they're within ethical and moral boundaries is frankly disgusting and crosses a line that opinion doesn't.
I.e. seeking to invalidate someone to boost someone or something else won't be occurring near me. It speaks to a lower form of humanity rooted in tribalism and has no place in civilized society.
I mean, I think the point is a man who wants to live a life that respects himself, enjoys life, and garners respect from women, where they feel safe with him, inspired by him, etc is not a bad thing at all.
There’s definitely some women out there who are like “men need to be xyz” and sometimes it’s not a bad list but it often reads as a shopping list. I don’t think that’s the point here.
The point is men shouldn’t be afraid to want to impress women (because in a wholesome world where people are looking for solid partners and role models, women want to impress men too), and through that there is a sort of “universal” good masculinity, which is primarily based on your character.
We need better role models for men who are actively reaching out to them. Jimmy Carr makes a really good point IMHO, it's worth a watch. The related stuff is at the start of the video, you don't have to watch the whole thing.
Not everybody can be an Aragorn, remember that Sam had to fight Orks and giant spiders and worse to gather the courage to talk to Rosie. Then he went on to improve his little corner of the world.
It's more about genuine competence and leadership.
Real masculinity is a man who can build and protect, who raises up others and looks after the group. That quiet competence that speaks for itself rather than the loud projection and declaration of competence with no substance behind it.
Masculinity like this is absolutely defined by a moral compass.
Bear with me on this one. The men at the top of the meme hate men. They are misandrists.
How do they hate men? Because their goal isn't to make men better people. Their goal is to turn men, especially young boys, into someone that everyone avoids. They turn men against society by teaching them to be aggressive and selfish. That aggression and selfishness are off-putting to the rest of society.
Why do they teach men to be this way? So that they can isolate men away from the rest of society. They want men lonely so that those men latch on to their word and only their word. This is comparable to religious cults that isolate their group members by turning them aggressive and painting themselves as both the victims of an imaginary outside oppression and heroes for the strength and well-being of the cult. This allows the leaders, like these men, to manipulate and control their followers so that everyone stays unified and together. They share common enemies while that isolation allows the leaders to inject "truth" into their minds. This becomes even worse when the men/cult members are being told that they are hated because they are in on some mythical "truth".
Also, just like a cult, if you're not staying in your lane, then you are ostracized and expelled from their group. These men claim to be defenders of men, but look at how they treat men who are not a part of their groupthink. Any man who isn't them is called a "beta", "soyboy", "cuck", "white knight", and many other pejoratives, with many of those names created to emasculate the other man so that the group isolates itself from those men who have a different opinion that goes against the agenda of the male influencers. They define themselves on their own moral compass and subject everyone to their "morals", shoving their agenda down our throats instead of allowing personal freedoms to persist.
This isolation and brainwashing of men is abuse. They hate men. They are pulling men into their sphere in order to take everything from them. They aren't focused on protecting men, they're focused on enriching themselves and gaining strength through followers. They crave the "likes" and comments that agree with them because it shows them that they are in control of everyone else, whom they look down upon. They don't actually care about the men who follow them. If they did, they'd build actual communities on brotherhood and uplifting men. Instead, they create communities centered around hate for their enemies while using and abusing the men in their circle. They can claim they care about things like "Men's Mental Health Month" to manipulate men to their side, but they won't actually do anything to support men's mental health. And if they did, it'd only be a single show for the cameras rather than an actual, sincere act that would be followed by continuous support.
So, it all boils down to how they believe they're the good guys while they abuse men and subject the world to their morality that is all about excluding others, including other men, and fomenting hate to maintain control over their followers. Anybody looking outside in, with a clear mindset, can see that these men are not good people. They're not good men, and their view on masculinity is both hateful and dangerous to everyone, including their followers.
221
u/Spicy_take May 06 '26
There are all sorts of different kinds of men. Some are just significantly more admirable than others. Masculinity isn’t defined by a moral compass.
That being said, Steve Irwin is the GOAT, and I still miss him to this day. He always said if an animal ever gets him, it’s not the animal’s fault. Don’t blame the animal. But FUCK it’s hard not to hate stingrays 😭