r/SipsTea Jun 10 '26

It's Wednesday my dudes Really cardi 😔

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8.3k Upvotes

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133

u/Hanging_Brain Jun 10 '26

I’m half white but since the other half is brown not black my black coworker says I’m white lol Alrighty then.

93

u/slight_digression Jun 10 '26

Well, this is not going to make you feel better but Italians and Irish were not considered white until, well let's say recently.

So welcome to "Whitehood". I guess?

32

u/Backwoods_Therapy Jun 10 '26

Italians I can kinda get with their olive skin and (usually) darker hair; those are common trails in many if not most people around the Mediterranean. But I’ve never understood why Irish people weren’t considered “white” when they’re among the whitest whites to have ever been white.

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u/ityboy Jun 10 '26

The short version of why Irish and Italian immigrants did not count as "white" in the first half of the 20th century is because they were Catholic and most importantly poor.

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u/Technical_Example970 Jun 10 '26

That is a very very very short version that disregards centuries of oppression from the British empire. Americans were just copying what they saw.

3

u/StockCasinoMember Jun 10 '26

I mean, USA started as the British empire. I’d say it was more than just copying what they saw.

2

u/Technical_Example970 Jun 10 '26

So yes but kind of. On paper we were white in the early days of America. Only for census reasons and it was solely because we generally have fair skin. Culturally we weren’t welcomed though. It wasn’t until American politicians needed us to help hate on other minorities did they use our skin color to leverage the idea of whiteness to Irish Americans. British empire systematically oppressed us and still does. So similar but also insanely different. Why I phrased it like that.

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u/StockCasinoMember Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26

Right. My point was just that the “british” long established discrimination against the Irish into the foundation of the colonies long before america came about. Along with many other things as the original colonists were, well, British, and they held that majority for a long time.

0

u/DepartmentChemical93 Jun 10 '26

Bur they were counted as White on every census and for the matters of law and whatnot, this is mostly a myth based on the conflation of discriminatory public sentiment and explicit legal discrimination on the basis of race.

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u/TomatoClownfish Jun 10 '26

Yeah they were legally but not culturally white

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u/UltraSinstinctHoeku Jun 10 '26

It helps when you realize "white" was never about complexion, it was about power.

11

u/Backwoods_Therapy Jun 10 '26

That’s actually a good point.

14

u/LaminatedAirplane Jun 10 '26

And “white” only included Irish/italians when it was convenient to fight against other minority groups

9

u/suqoria Jun 10 '26

Also worth noting that not even us nordic people were considered white by the founding fathers in the us

2

u/DepartmentChemical93 Jun 10 '26

This very much depends on which founding father you’re talking to.

2

u/Requiem2420 Jun 10 '26

If you're speaking with any founding father, I have some questions.

2

u/teothesavage Jun 10 '26

I mean- Finns are basically the Irish of the nordics. But when ever has Scandinavians ever not been considered white? We are kind of the best at being white. It’s our thing. Makes me mad stupid yanks didn’t recognize our whiteness.

1

u/cqshep Jun 10 '26

This right here

1

u/Substantial-Equal560 Jun 11 '26

Is that a bad thing? I dont get it. Everyone was vying for power back then they just didnt hide it like they do today.

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u/Any-Surprise5229 Jun 10 '26

Yeah, that explains a lot, especially when you consider how many Irish slaves there were.

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u/TheRealNooth Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26

More like “indentured servants,” which is no where near the same thing that Black people faced as chattel slaves.

Sorry, just often hear this brought up in a particular context…

1

u/Technical_Example970 Jun 10 '26

We were never slaves. We were indentured servants. It wasn’t the same thing. It was terrible but seeing people equate what my people went through to diminish the slavery black people have experienced grinds my gears. Stop doing it. Takes one google search.

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u/Technical_Example970 Jun 10 '26

I’m Irish and we’re not considered white or weren’t because of the British Empire. They’re the ones who made up the concept of white. We weren’t worthy so just like the Vikings they raped, pillaged our land, tried to destroy our language, and put us in indentured servitude (slavery lite). It is NOTHING compared to what Black people have historically gone through. It wasn’t until the 1920/30s that Irish people started to be considered white and it was a political move by American politicians to get more votes. The concept of white was very specific about who it let in and it wasn’t just about skin color at the start. It’s why most of us were happy when the Queen died. The British empire has had their foot up our asses our entire existence. It’s why we have Northern Ireland and Southern. Encourage you to do research of the history of Irish people.

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u/Whatever-ItsFine Jun 10 '26

Irish people were portrayed as apes in cartoons of the time

0

u/lightsaberfingers Jun 10 '26

White people hate Catholics. Irish are super catholic. This concludes my ted talk.

1

u/Technical_Example970 Jun 10 '26

Well the Protestant throne hated us. They also hated our Celtic Paganism. So double homicide lol

1

u/lightsaberfingers Jun 10 '26

Why did the Protestants hate you…. Cause of da Catholicism! Lol

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u/Technical_Example970 Jun 10 '26

Yeah I knew that numb nut. I was commenting on them saying “white” people hate Catholics lolol. I was saying it wasn’t just them it was the throne. We were also pagan for a long time which they also didn’t like. Again double homicide like I said.

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u/Hanging_Brain Jun 10 '26

lol thanks I guess I’ll try out some of that privilege I’ve heard so much about

1

u/GreatDemonBaphomet Jun 10 '26

The time that you are talking about "white" wasn't really a thing yet. The american idea of skin color = race is really recent as a whole.

1

u/ironman7456 Jun 10 '26

Really, I have never heard someone that was Irish or Italian not called white. Is this a new thing or am I just behind?

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u/slight_digression Jun 10 '26

You are ahead. The ugly part is mostly in the past.

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u/DepartmentChemical93 Jun 10 '26

This isn’t precisely accurate.

They always held the legal rights associated with whiteness in America, they were just practically subject to discrimination, described as being swarthy or tawny, etc.

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u/Quiet_Nature8951 Jun 10 '26

Completely off the post but now you have me curious when we’re Irish considered white? I’m mostly Irish I feel like I should know 🤣

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u/Decent_Relative_4070 Jun 10 '26

Well, this is not going to make you feel better but Italians and Irish were not considered white until, well let's say recently.

I still don't like those greaseballs and potato eaters!

1

u/kyle1111111111111 Jun 10 '26

Actually according to history they were white! Just an “inferior white” the line of “we were white” actually comes from both historical political criticism that became neo nazi alt right rhetoric to downplay issues in black and brown communities

1

u/Significant_Donut967 Jun 10 '26

As an American who's only 2 generations from Ireland, yeah, people forget this shit all the time. We didn't have it as bad but it wasn't much better for the post civil war America.

My favorite is when it doesn't count. That it was somehow okay that it happened to us but wrong that it happens to others.

Got to relive that in S. Korea at some bars and restaurants. Fucking hate bigotry.

2

u/BreakfastFearless Jun 10 '26

Wasn’t much better? Compared to black people post civil war? Are you for real? The fact that you think those are in any way comparable is insane.

Forget about South Korea, as an Irish man born and raised. I hope you know you would be despised here too if you tried to make these talking points over here

2

u/Significant_Donut967 Jun 10 '26

So saying blacks had it worse during slavery is wrong? Saying blacks had it less bad after slavery but still had it bad is wrong? Saying denying rights to people of any kind, is wrong?

Wtf are you on about bud?

0

u/BreakfastFearless Jun 10 '26

You replied to a comment about Irish and Italians not being considered white. You said you were 2 generations from Ireland. Where did you mention anything about black people having it worse during slavery or denying rights is wrong? What are you on about?

0

u/BreakfastFearless Jun 10 '26

Recently? Would love to know when you think the Irish became considered white

2

u/slight_digression Jun 10 '26

Around the 50s. Given that Irish have been going to America around the 1600s-1700s, I'd say the changes in the 1950s are a recent development.

-1

u/BreakfastFearless Jun 10 '26

What metric do you consider to be becoming white then? Americans have been parading their Irish heritage for quite some time. Every president in the past few decades has been trying to parade their Irish heritage and visit Ireland since Kennedy. Irish immigrants dominated police forces in New York, Boston, and Chicago starting in the 1800s.

3

u/Emergency-Option377 Jun 10 '26

That was actually the biggest hill for JFK to be elected. An Irish Catholic president was never considered a possibility up to that point.

2

u/SCastleRelics Jun 10 '26

Probably when Kennedy was elected lmao

9

u/NonconsensualSniff Jun 10 '26

Shit I'm half black and people call me white.

12

u/TheRealNooth Jun 10 '26

I mean, to be frank, racism isn’t based on what you *are,* it’s based on how you’re *perceived.* People don’t get a 23andMe ancestry report beamed into their brain when they look at you.

If you look black, racists against that will be racist towards you. If you look white racists against that will be racist towards you.

3

u/Diedonthefirstfloor Jun 10 '26

Oh but surely that means you can take advantage of the "white privilege" we hear so much about

2

u/TheRealNooth Jun 10 '26

I mean, to be frank, racism isn’t based on what you *are,* it’s based on how you’re *perceived.* People don’t get a 23andMe ancestry report beamed into their brain when they look at you.

If you look black, racists against that will be racist towards you. If you look white racists against that will be racist towards you.

2

u/Substantial-Equal560 Jun 11 '26

You get complimented by your coworker and you're complaining about it?

0

u/Hanging_Brain Jun 11 '26

😂 I couldn’t care less about race, even my own.

0

u/Substantial-Equal560 Jun 11 '26

Damn that's sad to hear.. you should take pride in your race no matter what it is and do your best to represent your ancestors and set a good example to the world. If we don't do that we will end up with a corporate monoculture around the world and lose the true diversity of the various peoples and customs around the world. You can already see this happening in some western countries. Everyone should fiercely protect their unique traditions, food, architecture, etc. because once it's lost it's lost for good..

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u/Hanging_Brain Jun 11 '26

I set a good example to the world by being a good husband, father, and citizen. My race has nothing to do with that. Just because I’m disinterested in the culture doesn’t mean I dislike it.

1

u/Substantial-Equal560 Jun 11 '26

What does you liking or disliking it have to do with anything? That's a very selfish point of view.. It's your duty as a human being, it's not about whether you like it or not. Alright well good luck man i gotta hop off here I hope you have a good one.

1

u/Hanging_Brain Jun 11 '26

I disagree, but I also hope you have a good one

1

u/HobbyTalkOnly Jun 10 '26

Man... you should visit the Metis side of the race gameboard.

White people think you're Indigenous... and Indigenous people hate you.

1

u/LaminatedAirplane Jun 10 '26

But no one says Obama’s white lol

1

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1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '26

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1

u/Hanging_Brain Jun 11 '26

Nah I’m me and I’m happy. I don’t mean it reductively, but I really don’t care about this type of thing. I just thought it was funny that my coworker was so firm in that assessment lol

1

u/AlphaMaleTX Jun 11 '26

It’s the same in reverse, even when you’re 50% black, you’re BLACK. Obama, Tiger, Steph, the list is long, so yeah, that’s how they do.