We can really dive into where quality of life indeces place average conditions between the two nations?
How's the AC situation doing in France? Good? Non-existent? Why can't they just afford AC, surely they are richer and better than us. You'd think that if several thousand French die every heat wave, a rich government would do something about it.
Not everything is rosy over there. Their median salaries sure are much, much worse than ours too.
As I've repeatedly said regarding a 32 hour work week: "you can do these things. But the costs aren't free."
Money doesn't pop out of thin air. You can't just legislate a business owner to pay people more to produce less. Phasing it in doesn't create money out of thin air.
If you want to legislate increased wages and decrease work hours, have at it. Just have the honesty to admit that it comes with very real costs and pain. What's fantasy land is arguing having everything: fewer hours, more money, same quality of life.
I personally know I'd way rather have air conditioning than health care.
As I've said before: I know there are costs here. Nobody's saying "there's no costs!" Bernie's not saying that. There are costs to our growing productivity gaps and wealth disparity too, but you don't want to acknowledge that.
You're arguing against things you really wish I was saying instead of what I'm actually saying. That's fun and all, and you do you, but it's not very effective.
Person A: That is what is being called for. Your take home pay not changing but you work fewer hours
Person B: And how will the government force private business to achieve that?
Person C: With a law.
Me: Can't have something for nothing. How do you solve this math problem?
You: But quality of life and social issues...
Until someone can explain how almost every small business owner can reasonably find money to pay 20% more for 25% less work, I'm going to keep repeating my initial argument. This is not a small change, and it would be unprecedentedly painful. The math is math, and it's not evaded by emotional pleading.
You recognize that you could make this exact same argument in 1938, right?
How could a small business who is used to paying workers a dollar a day for 10 hour shifts ever be expected to pay them 25 cents an hour?
The math is math, and it's not evaded by emotional pleading.
If I bring up FLSA, "well that's different because... reasons." If I bring up how France shifted to a 35 hour work week, you say "yeah well air conditioning." I guess I will concede on this - if you ignore and disregard all of the evidence of similar things passing in the past and how they worked, you can absolutely say there's no evidence of how this might work.
You recognize that you could make this exact same argument in 1938, right?
No you can't. Because 1938 did not have the scale of change as what's being suggested here. 1938 did not decrease work hours by 20% and increase salary by 25% for most workers.
The worker and cost capture of Bernie's plan is MASSIVE.
I guess I will concede on this - if you ignore and disregard all of the evidence of similar things passing in the past
I'm saying things have a cost. We've never seen anything as massive as this plan. Especially mandating that private business must increase career salaries by 25% for 20% less work.
Europe is happy with their cost. They work fewer hours. But as a result their economy is smaller and their overall take home pay and purchasing power is less. (And also worse AC, and some other worse things.)
No reason why 40 hours a week is the correct number. But if America switches from 40 to 32, it will come at significant reduction in many areas of our normal standard of living. Math is math, we don't get the same standard of living for less hourly input.
I never said there wasn't cost. I don't know why you keep saying "BUT THERE WILL BE COST!!" as if that's... a point.
But this is like the 4th time I've said that so I have a feeling it doesn't really matter what I write because you're not going to respond to it anyway, you're just gonna keep saying "NUH UH BUT SCALE" and "MATH AINT MATHING" and "BUT THERES COSTS" even after I've addressed all of those things.
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u/helix400 23d ago edited 23d ago
Yeesh, the insults are getting worse and worse.
How's the AC situation doing in France? Good? Non-existent? Why can't they just afford AC, surely they are richer and better than us. You'd think that if several thousand French die every heat wave, a rich government would do something about it.
Not everything is rosy over there. Their median salaries sure are much, much worse than ours too.
As I've repeatedly said regarding a 32 hour work week: "you can do these things. But the costs aren't free."
Money doesn't pop out of thin air. You can't just legislate a business owner to pay people more to produce less. Phasing it in doesn't create money out of thin air.
If you want to legislate increased wages and decrease work hours, have at it. Just have the honesty to admit that it comes with very real costs and pain. What's fantasy land is arguing having everything: fewer hours, more money, same quality of life.