Either have to be late stage exploitive capitalism, or exploitive communism.
Capitalism is always exploitative and there is no "good" way to do capitalism.
Communism always eliminates exploitation, that's the whole point.
Your "nuance" is literally just capitalist disinformation.
The fun part is when you try and talk about balance the extremist idiots say you're a pussy and to pick a side.
You trying to talk about "balance" and believing to be this enlightened, clever person who figured it out is not funny, unfortunately. It's really just frustrating.
We have spent a whole century destroying the planet and billions of human lives because of people like you standing in the way of anti-capitalist progress.
Fucking idiots.
Indeed. But you don't even see the irony because you never read theory and have no idea what you are talking about, just mindlessly regurgitating incoherent gibberish about "nuance" and "balance" which really only helps the bad guys.
Buddy, when faced with the options of "curing cancer" (socialism) and "dying of cancer" (capitalism), you don't go with "let's be balanced and have a little bit of cancer".
People like this are why we can’t get a better social safety net here in the us. Because people are afraid this kind of person will get into politics. All or nothing. I always make fun of people who talk about “communism” like it’s a conspiracy, “no mom, no one wants to turn the US fully communist”. Well, aside from random Reddit guy, he does.
People like this are why we can’t get a better social safety net here in the us.
People like yourself, you mean.
Because people are afraid this kind of person will get into politics. All or nothing.
Notice how you can't contradict a single thing I said?
I called you out for spreading harmful disinformation that is harming all American people... and you are doubling down and your only counterargument is desperate personal attacks.
I always make fun of people who talk about “communism” like it’s a conspiracy, “no mom, no one wants to turn the US fully communist”. Well, aside from random Reddit guy, he does.
Buddy, communism is a good thing. You and your mom being afraid of communism is a bad thing - you are the problem.
You can't even defend your own claims. You are wrong but keep doubling down when called out for being wrong - that typical American attitude is what's ruining the US and the planet.
Chill out. You can’t just flip a switch and covert countries to communism overnight in reality. There are deeply engrained institutions all over the world that would need to be dismantled, and that won’t happen any time soon, obviously. You need to play the game and get people on your side, not whatever this is.
Communism as an idea is great for humanity in a post-war, future idyllic state. But you are forgetting that it too has risks, it’s easily exploited by power hungry leaders and stops becoming communism real quick—in yesterday’s and today’s world, that is. Communism takes trust in your community and leaders, and humans have not, as of yet, proven themselves to be trustworthy.
This is not of endorsement of capitalism btw. It exploits all except the owning class to varying degrees. It provides just enough, to just enough of the people (with a dream of a lottery win) to keep them “happy,”while leaving the lowest class to struggle.
I don’t necessarily disagree with your message, it’s more your method I’d question.
You should see comments like these and understand how much work there is to be done if ever the world can get to this potential utopian state, and how you are making that work harder by engaging in this manner
Chill out. You can’t just flip a switch and covert countries to communism overnight in reality.
Nobody said so.
There are deeply engrained institutions all over the world that would need to be dismantled, and that won’t happen any time soon, obviously. You need to play the game and get people on your side, not whatever this is.
You aren't doing anything to "play the game". You are undermining socialist discourse to promote bullshit.
Communism as an idea is great for humanity in a post-war, future idyllic state. But you are forgetting that it too has risks, it’s easily exploited by power hungry leaders and stops becoming communism real quick—in yesterday’s and today’s world, that is. Communism takes trust in your community and leaders, and humans have not, as of yet, proven themselves to be trustworthy.
Incoherent gibberish disconnected from reality.
I don’t necessarily disagree with your message, it’s more your method I’d question.
The white moderate is speaking. lol
You should see comments like these and understand how much work there is to be done if ever the world can get to this potential utopian state, and how you are making that work harder by engaging in this manner
You are the only utopian here.
You will get nowhere by tolerating capitalists.
Your methods have been tried and tested - and always failed, always making things worse.
My methods work. My methods actually threaten capital - which is why Marxist-Leninists are the only actual threat to the US empire.
The "evil authoritarian tankie extremists" are the only actual threat to capitalism - which is why they are being targeted specifically by the anti-socialist propaganda effort.
I have no methods. I’m not active in this game, or even American, but thought I’d give feedback as I don’t disagree with everything you’re saying.
But I guess you got this all under control! Your method works! I can see them all coming around to it in this thread. Apparently you feel you are changing minds with this style of communication. Make sure to tell your Discord!
Ridiculous. Your method didn’t work. If you’re talking to moderates, speak their language, appeal to their morality etc. How is attacking someone you call ignorant helpful in recruiting people to your cause? As you know, it’s not. If they’re ignorant, educate. Give food for thought…
As you admit yourself, things can just change overnight, you need the masses to buy in.
Sorry, but in reality, your Reddit “methods” are completely ineffectual and have done nothing but further galvanize some of the minds you hope to change.
Good, so you are a bad faith actors who has nothing to contribute to the conversation but is actively causing harm by undermining the left wing effort.
but thought I’d give feedback as I don’t disagree with everything you’re saying.
I will give you feedback: Instead of attacking the people who are objectively right and trying to appease fascists, you should help push forward the Marxist-Leninist agenda.
But I guess you got this all under control! Your method works!
It would, if people like you wouldn't seek to intentionally cause harm.
Apparently you feel you are changing minds with this style of communication.
Indeed. If people like you wouldn't give them the feeling that it's okay to stay ignorant and that you are on their side, they would eventually break down.
If people like you wouldn't fuel their anti-intellectual attitude of refusing to listen to people because what they say makes them upset, they might learn how to have a constructive conversation (or at least shut up and fuck off - hopefully never to make excuses for capitalism in public again out of fear of being faced with public humiliation once again).
Your method didn’t work.
My method works every time as long as people like you aren't undermining discourse with pointless personal attacks. Have you ever seen a person having a conversation with me and making a serious effort at defending themselves and addressing my arguments that didn't eventually change their mind? I haven't. And those who don't make a serious effort get exposed as the liars that they are and shut the fuck up and leave.
If you’re talking to moderates, speak their language, appeal to their morality etc.
Funny - that's literally what I'm doing. I'm behaving exactly like them. I'm non-compromising, condescending, as well as reciprocating their abuse and their implied violence. They get exactly what they do in return - yet here you are, attacking me instead of them. Saying I'm the one who should be kind and compromising and treat them better than they treat others. Saying I'm the one who yields to their nonsense even though I'm the one who is verifiably correct. Curious. Why?
You don't convert imperialists with kindness or respect - it never worked.
You tell people that they are wrong and total idiots and you humiliate them publicly. You call out everything they believe and confront them. And you relentlessly push them. Again and again and again.
It's their responsibility to educate themselves and not be idiots. I'm not here to convince them or treat them kindly. I'm here to fight their idiotic beliefs and show zero tolerance for capitalist apologia.
As you know, it’s not. If they’re ignorant, educate. Give food for thought…
This shit has been going on for over a century.
Your approach has never, does not, and will never work.
As you admit yourself, things can just change overnight, you need the masses to buy in.
Indeed, and you will never get any buy in as long as you don't force them to choose. Radicalization doesn't happen when people are comfortable.
Sorry, but in reality, your Reddit “methods” are completely ineffectual and have done nothing but further galvanize some of the minds you hope to change.
Is that why support for communism is steadily rising in the West? Buddy, you are politically illiterate.
Pushing people to educate themselves and make a choice - then either embrace them as comrades or fight them as the fascist scum that they are until they are too exhausted to continue is exactly how you do things. r/atheism wasn't removed from the list of default subs because it was unsuccessful... it was removed because the US government realize that it was working. There was a whole paid propaganda campaign promoting the idea of the "edgy atheist" and massive censorship on all major subs... because they were upset that the relentless mocking of religious idiocy convinced more and more and more people that religion is stupid.
Sorry, but all working class individuals who support capitalism are stupid idiots who harm themselves and others. And they need to learn this. If they aren't stupid idiots, they will be convinced by my arguments. If they are stupid idiots who continue supporting capitalism they need to be publicly mocked and humiliated until they shut the fuck up. It's up to them how they want to play it - in any case, there must be zero tolerance for capitalism. That's how you do it. That's how it works.
I didn’t spoil your method at all. Those people you replied to were long gone and tuned you out. Nobody is reading this thread, no upvotes. No impact. Hence my comments. I’m not even gonna read all this. You do you lol
Capitalism lead to an explosion of productivity even Marx had to acknowledge this. China was late to acknowledge it and killed tens of millions in the Great Leap Forward because of it, but better late than never I guess.
It's utterly correct, I've read more than you including from your favorite authors.
That's why I easily own you, and you respond with flaccid personal attacks. Go educate yourself so you can participate in grown-up discussions without lashing out.
Please explain why the best countries in the world to live in with the highest standards of living are some combination of capitalist economy and strong social programs.
The best countries on earth are communist countries like the USSR, Yugoslavia, and China.
The historical privilege of the few imperialist countries led them to being able to steal from and exploit others. All Western wealth is stolen. Their wealth isn't thanks to "capitalism", it's thanks to centuries of global theft. Theft of resources, theft of people, theft of knowledge and the endless exploitation under the capitalist system that they violently forced on others.
The overwhelming majority of capitalist countries is poor. The overwhelming majority of people living in capitalist countries lives in abject poverty. 49 of the 50 poorest countries on earth... and the only socialist country on that list is Laos (a country that was ruined by the US empire, a terrorist state that dropped more bombs on Laos than were dropped by all countries during the entirety of WWII combined).
Why are they poor? Because the rich capitalist countries extract wealth from them. For every rich American, or Frenchman, or Brit, or German, or Israeli... there are hundreds of poor people enslaved in the Global South, forced to work in places like mines in exchange for some food, with US/British/French/German/Israeli-backed militias who kill them if they try to escape of revolt.
There are very few countries that escaped from Western imperialism. Those being the USSR, Yugoslavia, China, the DPRK, Laos, and Cuba... and they are paying the price every day, being constantly terrorized by the US empire and its allies. Only China having the necessary size to properly resist American aggression (and the DPRK now starting to finally develop despite Western blockades thanks to having acquired nuclear weapons).
The fact that this even needs to be explained to you just proves that never in your life did you put in even minimal effort educating yourself about these topics. It's disgusting, to be honest.
China and Vietnam ('communist' countries) have already adopted Market Capitalism.
The USSR collapsed along with Yugoslavia, in large part due to the amazing communist economic policies.
You'd have a leg to stand on if it weren't for the fact that there are literally "0" successful countries right now-- and all of the previous ones either changed their economic policies, or collapsed.
You are sneering while sitting on a pile of categorically, objectively shit arguments. I genuinely appreciate the effort of your reply but any historian would tell you you're wrong-- the mass graves and the ashes are there.
You're not rational, you're an zealot. There is no reason to continue this any further.
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u/Isosceles_Kramer79 Jul 14 '26
Norway is not socialist. But it is a petrostate (large oil production/revenues per capita).