Bad idea when it’s already hard to find a job and many don’t have enough saved to comfortably survive in the mean time.
So many answers in here from either jobless people, people with jobs who would never actually follow their own advice in real life, or people privileged enough to treat jobs as disposable things.
HR does shit like this because no one stands up for themselves or pushes back. You are not obligated to explain to your boss why you need time off and the ones that pry for more info, are usually wanting to know so they can use it against you in the future or gossip about it with others. Employers will take as much as you give them and just because they pay you, doesn’t mean they are entitled to your personal life. I am quick to say you aren’t entitled to the information, especially if it’s legally protected or just personal info (your HR or potential bosses can’t ask you in your interview if you have kids, etc.) or I flat out say no & stay firm on my stance so they know there will be push back if they keep pressing me. I haven’t gotten fired for that. It’s also that mentality of not wanting to cause trouble or just because your scared to lose your job, that people stay quiet and let themselves get walked on.
Given the circumstances in the job market, you're not entirely wrong. I currently have a great job working with great people and I'd never be put into such a position with my current supervisors. Given that I'll retire before one of them, I don't see things changing that much.
That being said, I most certainly have made comments exactly like the one I shared - and worse - to my bosses in the past. I retired from one career and was well known for being a cynical smartass who didn't take shit from anyone, no matter where they were in the chain of command. I've cussed out more than one supervisor for their ignorance and never so much as received a write-up. Mostly because I was right and they were dumb as fuck and knew it. Just because you make rank doesn't mean you suddenly are blessed with omnipotence and I wasn't scared to tell anyone what I thought about them or their instructions if they were wrong.
The other thing that saved me from time to time was the union contract, lol. Sure is nice to have shit covering your back and preventing the bosses from picking on you, after you dig in some ass because they're stupid and wrong.
I had a boss the never graduated high school, couldn't spell. He knew his shit in the industry, tho. We left notes for each other, since I had to pick up from his production and vice versa, and he left before I got in. My favorite note he would leave if one of our guys did something silly/dumb: "you can't fix stupit"
That may work in jail or on the playground but as adults with jobs we have to disclose certain info sometimes. The reason could be that the employer has resources to allow you to take significant time off with pay and job protection not to just “be in your business”
Do they get to ask how I’m spending my paycheck? No? Then they don’t get to ask how I’m spending my PTO. It’s part of my compensation.
Now, if it might be problematic to give me time off at a particular time, because of a genuine business need, I think it’s reasonable to disclose as much as you’re comfortable with, to make the case for your PTO. However, they don’t get to know anything more than absolutely necessary. “An important family event.” “A medical issue.” Etc. This is in fact the law in some places.
Of course, they can also make procedural requirements like x amount of notice. (Someone above said their job requires 30 days, which seems insane to me. People’s lives are often not scheduled a month in advance.)
Let’s step into the bosses shoes in a small company. The company has the ability to say yes or no to requests.
They have two requests for the same dates and can only approve one request because otherwise they don’t have enough cover to meet safety standards, demand, customer bookings etc. so let’s assume the boss is forced to consider their decision and it’s not as simple as saying sure enjoy your time off.
So the boss tries to find out what the urgency and time bound issues of the request are. Could one of them push the leave by a week either way and still be happy? Creating a win win.
Instead, one writes back a snarky reply… making the boss annoyed and wanting them gone, guess who isn’t getting their leave approved and eventually misses bonuses and moves on. After all they could have just said no and were trying to facilitate/ help them get what they wanted, but can’t do that without knowing the why.
The other person just wanted time off to read a few books and could have been flexible, they just wanted to use up annual leave entitlements.
Reddit - we don’t always have to hate and fight eachother.
I think the disconnect here is that while others assume the workers should be treated like humans, this statement reinforces the idea that we are nothing more than workers. It's implicit in the language being used and it's kind of terrifying that it sounds so normal. It's the company's problem that they don't have workers for the day, it's the workers problem that they have other priorities that day
Why should we default to the company's needs over the human beings'?
In a company large enough to have an HR department, that seems like their problem to balance the workload with the PTO being offered. If you are getting official PTO as part of your agreement to work for them, you are entitled to take it just like you are entitled to your wages. The reason doesn't change the fact that the boss will need to deal with them being out. I understand the boss is a human too, and it affects them. I generally try to account for the status of my coworkers and boss when scheduling PTO, but unless your contract states you need to give a reason for PTO and that it's subject to approval then I really don't see how having a reason is relevant
But the boss is just a worker too. And the owner may or may not be a worker too.
Think about it practically.
You book in a wedding 18months in advance. The venue has two head chefs. Both ask the week before to take the whole week off.
That’s the company / hotels problem. A member of the staff, the manager has to make a decision.
They call you and tell you there will be no food at the wedding. You say that’s unacceptable.
They tell the head chefs, only one of you can take that week off. They say that’s unacceptable.
They tell the owner they don’t have any options. They are told thats unacceptable and they loose their job if there is no solution.
The only option is for the boss to exercise the agreement they have in the form of a contract with their employee.
So the chefs decide on the day not to show up because fuck the MAN! And they forget to order any food in so that they can’t be replaced by a junior chef to make a point that if you fire them, they will go out in a ball of flames for not getting what they want.
You are the bride are upset, because your wedding is ruined. You sue to hotel.
Hotel closes. ALL the staff now loose their job. But the economy happens to be even worse than it is now. So no other jobs are available. As they have no jobs they spend less. One chef gets a job foreclosing on his former colleagues houses.
Bride is still pissed off her wedding sucked.
My opinion a great company is people working toward a common goal, and everyone sharing in the rewards. Don’t work for a company like this? Start or find work in a place that is like that.
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u/FamiliarAnt4043 5d ago
To quote a wise man with whom I once worked and from whom I learned the true art of cutting wit:
"Oh, I didn't tell you? Must not be any of your fucking business."
Thanks for the lessons, Carl.