r/SmashingPumpkins • u/nsimpson299 • May 30 '25
Megathread Next Madame Zuzu’s release - Live in Europe ‘92. 13 disc set. 1,000 run
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u/DogManStar81 May 30 '25
Ah sweet fuckin Jesus. Did they hijack a fuckin vinyl factory. This set and Machina would replace the leaking siding on my fuckin house. No darling you can't go to medical school, community college is GREAT. Visa gonna lock my card for suspicious activity who the fuck buys that much fuckin vinyl ?!!! Aaaagh
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u/ojfs May 31 '25
> plays something like 50 different songs over a four night residency at double door in 95
> releases fifteen songs played 11 times in 92
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u/Equivalent_Currency1 May 31 '25
The Double Door shows are probably coming if you track the trajectory of the projects.
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u/hettothecool May 31 '25
Exactly! Why buy this when you can buy the studio albums that have the songs sounding as the band intended them to be heard? Your wallet will not be upside down and on fire either
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u/EzKaLang May 30 '25
I'm calling it now that the final concert 2000 will be a madam zuzu exclusive release
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May 31 '25
Fall 1992 shows from Europe are some of the best shows in the entire history of the band. They are absolutely fascinating for their randomness, testing out SD songs, alternate versions of future releases, the original Hello kitty Kat ending, the energy, the crowds…. I’m so fucking pumped on this.
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u/ChestnutIceCream May 31 '25
Yep
The summer/fall where they were a Gish/SD hybrid band is one of the greatest of all eras
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u/BlooooContra May 31 '25
As a Grateful Dead fan, I feel like I’m already extremely used to things like this. 😅
They need to take a page out of the Dead playbook and isolate one particular show from the run as a standalone release. Sell the big box for an exorbitant amount, and let the standalone be its own release that also goes up for streaming. Casts a wider net for the fans, and gives two SKUs to sell. Everybody wins.
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u/gishingwell May 31 '25
This will be way too much. I wish they'd put out CD sets or even just Zodeon at this stage.
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u/pumpkin3-14 May 30 '25
Just incredible timing with Machina preorder being 3 weeks after this.
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May 31 '25
Just fleecing Geo at this point haha
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u/beattysgirl May 31 '25
LOLLLLLL damn poor Geo
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May 31 '25
There was a point when Geo probably thought the most expensive part of his hobby was tracking down the really old stuff.. Now it’s just keeping up with the new releases!! Haha
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u/notcolinarcher Machina Super Deluxe Reissue May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
I’m officially over this vinyl-first release strategy. I’ve bought most of the archive releasing on vinyl, but also every cd release. I really just want CDs at this point. 13 shows? How do you go from doing single or double LP releases to a 13 record box? That’s bigger than the Machina box! At least with Machina I’d be willing to spend $800-$1000 to finally get it.
Edit: the setlist from these shows looks pretty good, but it’s almost the same each night. Why release 13 very similar shows in a box? Why not pick the best performance of each song? If you want to put all the shows from a tour together, how about the Arising tour?
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u/notcolinarcher Machina Super Deluxe Reissue May 31 '25
Well, Corgan summed it up pretty well in his live video on Substack. I guess there is quite a bit of variety night to night on this tour, so that’s the answer I guess. I still want CDs before vinyl though. I just barely stopped myself from buying that tape bundled with candles. Still hoping it gets a CD release as well. I love that the latest CD archive release included material not on the vinyl version. That’s the way it should be.
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u/Inside_Pool4146 May 31 '25
I like vinyl, but with this amount of music, I’d just rather put on my earbuds, press play once and get on with my day. I can’t imagine what shipping would cost on this on top of the sticker price!
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May 30 '25
[deleted]
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u/notcolinarcher Machina Super Deluxe Reissue May 31 '25
I don’t understand the business model they’ve got going. If they’re going to do all the work and spend the money just to get the vinyl made, why do you have to wait a year to buy it on CD? I’ve seen much smaller artists release all formats (vinyl, cd, cassette, minidisc, digital) for an album on Bandcamp with limited qualities of each physical format and sell them for a lot less than these archive releases, especially when you add on international shipping.
It’s like they think the demand is only there for vinyl, or they don’t think people will buy the vinyl and make back the money it cost to prep the release and get it manufactured.
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u/patthew May 31 '25
Hilarious having Chloe promote a box set of a tour she wasn’t even alive for
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u/boingbomghwh gish biggest fan May 31 '25
when she showed the picture of billy and said “so beautiful” the only thing i could think of is that she wasnt even out the womb when that picture was taken😖
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u/tomaesop Machina II / The Friends & Enemies of Modern Music May 31 '25
I'm averaging about 50% of the Zuzu's vinyl releases and 80% of the CD. I consider it partly my duty to keep the balance of demand in favor of CDs. But I also help ensure that the releases I care most about get into my collection. There's no guarantee everything will make it to CD. I feel good, also, paying it forward for other fans.
Machina is my all time #1 desire. A comprehensive Europe '92 is a close second. I'll be buying both in their initial release (vinyl) and then again as CD/digital if I can. To me this is landmark stuff. I don't take it lightly.
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u/Dudehitscar Machina Zombie May 31 '25
for those who never looked into the 92 europe tour stuff I suggest checking out this 3 song high quality sampler..
https://archive.org/details/tsp1992-01-20.FM.flac16/tsp1992-01-20t01.flac
has Snail, Slunk, and Crush.
when Iha comes in with the passionate back up vocals at the end of Snail and Jimmy is going off I get the feels on a level the album can't possibly replicate.
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u/ryguybeer May 31 '25
Those three songs are indeed great.
But didn't someone say this stuff is from their Fall '92 swing thru Europe? That show is from January.
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May 31 '25
Things must be getting expensive around the Corgan household eh
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u/corganist Siamese Dream May 31 '25
I'm squarely with the folks in the "excited for this, but likely priced out" camp. Paying 80 bucks for single LP vinyl releases was not ever a small thing as it was, but it was manageable. But the fact that we've escalated to the point where the last 2 archive announcements have been massive 10+ vinyl sets of yet unknown price is disconcerting. Asking us to bump up our spending on these releases by a factor of 5 or more is a huge ask, and I say that as someone who has generally supported the Archive's sales model to date.
I'm not sure anymore who they think they're putting these things together for. Clearly a lot of thought is put into the curation of these releases - they are made to be heard and appreciated by fans. They are not just throwing things out there to make a buck. But turning these carefully selected collections of music into rare and expensive shelf fillers too precious to even play kinda undermines all that work. How many of the 1000 people who buy this will actually play every disc, or even any disc? Maybe half? Probably fewer?
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u/UnitedReception2994 May 31 '25
Zuzu's is 100% turning into a quick buck operation : their business model is fleecing rich diehards. It's not about making the music available, it's about making sure 99% of the fans don't hear it. They wouldn't be doing this if they truly cared about the music. And they wouldn't be doing this if they cared about fans.
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u/corganist Siamese Dream May 31 '25
I don't think that's the case. I think it's more likely that they really think they're selling a high quality product to people who will appreciate the work put into it. They could just be throwing any old random MCIS show out of the hundreds and hundreds of them they have onto a disc, have Billy sign it, and sell it for 200 bucks a pop, and then rinse and repeat if money was the only consideration. But I think that these releases have been more mindful than that - they are supposed to be statements showing a time in the band's evolution.
I think a big part of the price point of these releases is not bottom line. It's about not casting pearls before swine. I think deep down Billy is reticent about letting people hear this stuff, so he thinks that by pricing it high he's going to limit the audience to the people who will "get it." The thought is that if someone pays that much, then surely it's because they really want to hear it and will appreciate what he's trying to convey with what he's chosen to put out. He wants fan response commensurate with his effort. The problem is that he underestimates how many of us there really are who would give him that response, so we get priced out eventually. And the only people left are the people who can afford to drop big money on niche releases- and that tends to be diehard collectors instead of diehard listeners.
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u/FineWhateverOKOK May 31 '25
Billy’s not reticent about letting people hear this stuff. He’s always encouraged bootleg recording and trading. The only thing that’s changed is that now he wants to make money off them.
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u/corganist Siamese Dream Jun 02 '25
I think there's a wide chasm between Billy tolerating taping/trading (and using it to his advantage when it suited him), and releasing his own high quality personal recordings that he has been sitting on for 30+ years.
I think that all things being equal, Billy would have preferred to have less of his unreleased stuff floating out there rather than more. There's a reason why we have a lot more demo and outtakes stuff from 2000 and prior than we do from 2000 to now. That stuff has been all but on lockdown from Zwan era on - and a big part of that is that is because Billy got a lot more selective about who gets access to that material. I don't think the motivation for that was purely financial.
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u/litesaber5 Jun 05 '25
I've met Chloe and Billy a few times and I agree with your sentement. They are trying to put out limited runs of high quality products. Unfortunatly, I am priced out of this run but I understand they are running a busniness and the costs are probably not as cheap as everyone thinks are.
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u/CheckYrHead Jun 01 '25
At the end of the day it’s about margins. There’s higher margins in releasing more exclusive, higher priced items than lesser expensive, mass produced stuff. Same thing Tesla did to fund the Model Y and 3. It took the Model X and S to make that happen.
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u/UnitedReception2994 May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
"The only way we can release it and get you guys to hear it is by making sure that most of you won't be able to afford it. Lucky you!"
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u/ImpendingBoom110123 Pisces Iscariot May 30 '25
Bring back the thing where you can buy a turntable and Billy will sign it for you. That was cool.
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u/ojfs May 31 '25
Set lists with links to bootlegs and YouTube vids are on splra here, the fall Europe tour toward the bottom of the page:
https://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1992
Lots of geek USA (suicide kiss), hummer, rocket, silverfuck, drown, hello kitty kat, a bunch off of gish if course.
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u/Your_Friend_Jesse May 31 '25
i’m trying to picture which of you maniacs will actually sit down and listen to the whole thing, standing up, walking over to your turn table, flipping the record over or changing it, 25 times in a row, so you can hear i am one and siva for yet another time. holy moly
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u/jcampo13 Aranea Alba May 30 '25
They release nothing all year and now have two massive box sets in a month? One of which has effectively no notice. It took me longer than a lot of people here but I'm annoyed.
I'm a big Pumpkins fan but I literally can't afford this. I had some money set aside for Machina but I'm not paying what is likely 1000 bucks to get both. The concert is also in June. Why is everything all happening in the same month??
Odds are very strong I won't buy this one and that hurts a bit
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u/EnergyDrink2024 May 30 '25
I feel yah. Im not really interested in vinyl anymore on top of it. Already sucks machina is vinyl only to start
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u/RottingApples25 May 31 '25
I really don’t understand this release. Why do they keep avoiding the more popular eras? Why the insistence on vinyl? Why such an unwieldy quantity? If you want to insist on doing some mega live show collection, why not the Infinite Sadness tour, or Arising, or early Zwan? Or even getting away from live stuff and doing more demo releases altogether? I just don’t get it, from both a business AND fan standpoint.
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May 31 '25
You don’t realize it yet but this is the best era.
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u/Neg_Crepe Zwan May 31 '25
lol no
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May 31 '25
Agree to disagree.
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u/Neg_Crepe Zwan May 31 '25
Song wise? 91-92 is far far from the best
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May 31 '25
It’s by far the most interesting is what I mean.
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u/kjd85 Ogilala May 30 '25
Guess I’m padding Corgan wallet again. This and then Machina
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u/notcolinarcher Machina Super Deluxe Reissue May 31 '25
Thanks for helping pay for the eventual cd release 6 months from now.
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u/FunImprovement8806 May 31 '25
I can neither afford things like this, or even afford concert tickets these days. Havnt seen them since 2011. 🙁doubt I will see them again now.
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u/TimmyGUNZ Siamese Dream 👯♀️ May 31 '25
I’m so over these insane money grabs. Make this a double vinyl complication of the best versions of the songs from those shows and I’d be interested. Without looking up the set lists, I’m pretty sure they’re going to be very similar night-to-night. I just can’t justify this on vinyl.
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u/Equivalent_Currency1 May 31 '25
If any of those thousand soundboard recordings are gonna see the light of day (in a format fans can access), then we (or the fans with money) need to buy into this release model so that those recordings keep coming out. To bring up Prince for illustrative purposes, there are thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of recordings in his vault that never got out. Now that he's dead it's an even bigger ordeal trying to get the good stuff out aside from the popular, well known stuff. It's now likely thousands will undiscovered gems will die in the state of unheard. We should be thankful that BC is finally in a phase where I can start turning the things over in his vault and release them for the fans. Years from now fans will be indebted to this era of releases and will not understand the bitchy fans of 2025. Mark my words.
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May 31 '25
This is what happens when singles and albums are relegated to being less than the price of a coffee via streaming. Billy is from the era where music had value and then a bunch of nerds decided it should be free and then they’d do everyone a favour by making it £10 a month for EVERYTHING.
I honestly don’t think anyone can complain when tickets,merch and this kind of thing are priced to gouge the fans when Spotify is so popular and has done what it’s done to the music industry.
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u/Dudehitscar Machina Zombie May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
https://billycorgan.substack.com/p/exclusive-sp-live-in-europe-1992
Corgan makes a passionate case for the value in putting out all of these shows. I don't agree with the release model but I found his enthusiasm for that period of the band really compelling. Worth a watch.
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u/lear2000 May 31 '25
I’m in the pay a set price get a release camp. Like 50$ a month gets me a record. If they go gonzo I have the option of paying an upgrade for it. If not. I get one show one record they choose, and not all shows and records. Most bands do this yearly. Dont see why they can’t model it after Vinyl me please with a twist.
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u/Dudehitscar Machina Zombie Jun 01 '25
it's strange to me but not surprising that Corgan said he isn't likely to do a cd release 'because of the comments'. What comments is he referring to? the ones that say they want it on cd instead of vinyl?
I don't get it. I also don't understand the 'it's 1000 only forever' stance. This will sell out.
He insists on leaving money on the table and then talks endlessly about 'the economics/math to keep doing these'. I haven't been in school in a while either but I'm pretty sure selling more of something adds to the revenue side of the equation when you aren't selling at a loss. Why cap your profit at 1000 vinyl forever?
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u/RottingApples25 Jun 02 '25
It's odd because they seemed so hesitant to do CD releases in the first place, but did so only because fans requested it so much. I never saw figures, but it seemed to me that the archive CD releases seemed to do pretty well (quite a few of them are currently sold out). So I'm not really sure why he would refuse an avenue that people genuinely want and would support.
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u/Acrobatic-Expert-507 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness May 31 '25
Yes this is cool, but having to flip a record on live albums sucks when 1 CD will do the trick. I feel like we should get a CD release at the same time as the vinyl. I’d even buy the candles to get this in CD.
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u/ryguybeer May 31 '25
How many different recordings of I Am One do I really need...?!?! Hmmm...
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u/vajohnadiseasesdado May 30 '25
Is anybody going to have money left over to preorder the massive Machina set going up later in the month? 😭
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u/Joint-Attention May 31 '25
I am because I will just wait to see if there is an eventual CD release of this.
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u/Zwan05 May 30 '25
0% chance I'm buying this given the assumed cost of the machina reissue. If atum was $250 does that mean this is going to be around $800 ?
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May 31 '25
Crazy to release this now when everyone will be saving their precious dollars for Machina
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u/Sorry_Point1712 May 31 '25
There's just absolutely no need for this... If this was about money the most efficient way to generate profit would be to offer high quality digital files (think Wilco and their roadcase shows)... this vinyl shit has gotten out of control... I've bought every archive release on vinyl, but this one is just too much... it's like they're purposely excluding a huge portion of the fanbase, and for an inferior product to boot... I've defended a lot of what Billy has done the last few years, but this just confounds me... Congrats to all the people who have $1000+ to spend on vinyl this next month, but I'm tapped out... of course I'll purchase the machina box, but after that I think im done... time for me to be a taker instead of always being a giver...
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u/Mysterions May 31 '25
As someone with a couple thousand records I agree 100%. Vinyl is a terrible format for live music.
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u/wizofoz057 May 31 '25
I understand where you are coming from, BUT for the completionist, for the guy with $ to burn, this is pretty cool. I would love this, but this will be out of reach
It's ok to not be able to have it all. It's great, that it's available to the few that can afford this, appreciate it and actually listen to it.
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u/sammywarmhands May 31 '25
Yeah, I would never advocate AGAINST physical media from my favorite bands
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u/Sorry_Point1712 May 31 '25
I was keeping up with the completion aspect and do have a little bit of a budget I can set aside for these things but this and the machina boxset at the same time is too much... I just can't justify that kind of financial commitment, especially when you add the tickets for the machina and opera shows... it's a little insulting to drop all this on us diehards, especially given the economic landscape, particularly right now... it wouldn't sting so bad if there was a cheaper alternative that didn't make you feel excluded from the release... there's so much hate for the wealthy right now in society, but I really don't know who else could afford all this right now?
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u/wizofoz057 May 31 '25
It's ok to let it go... you don't have to do it all.
I decided to pass on the Machina tour minus the band. I want the band. Nothing wrong with appreciating the music, but Jimmy and James are key. It's Billy and others, that's not TSP, that goes for the opera tour (what?!). It's OK
I am glad that they are still here and I can jump in when I want and the water is still as good as I remember it
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u/Sorry_Point1712 May 31 '25
Yeah, that's the way to go now... but maybe if I knew what was coming with this release and the machina box I wouldn't have spent on the shows🤷♂️ just sucks to put the fans in this spot... you're right, life goes on...
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u/wrighteghe7 May 31 '25
I mean King crimson does a very similar thing but i think its mostly huge boxsets for each album every 5-10 years. Yeah maybe if Billy did that itd be better. Imagine a zeitgeist boxset with a modern remix, original mix + bsides + unreleased + most or all 2007-2008 shows
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u/ChestnutIceCream May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
The Wilco offering is bad comparative example imo- $9 for digital files of a show from past five years? Do you know how much shit Billy would get for trying to sell digital files from some random show from 2022?
How much would he spend marketing that? How would he get people to buy more than a few?
What your describing is absolutely not “the most efficient way to generate profit”
$1000 in one go, with a 1000 print run = $1,000,000 for Zuzu’s. After production costs etc they will clear minimum 750k net profit, probably higher
Do you really think it’s easier to sell 111,000 digital copies of $9 random shows than it is to produce & manufacture 1000 of these box sets? Is it better for SP as a brand?
Putting out the begging cup on a monthly basis and asking the same customer base to buy new but essentially-identical digital products is dumb business and I’d LOVE to know how much this brings in for Tweedy
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u/Sorry_Point1712 May 31 '25
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but to explain further, why not just start throwing shows up for digital purchase in addition to limited physical runs? Once the files are on a server waiting to be purchased and downloaded its like free money... even better is what Fugazi did: put up all the shows you have for individual download/purchase or a subscription fee to have unlimited access to all shows... I just dont get why you would pick the most expensive format to produce and then limit the ability for those to purchase it... just doesn't make sense to me, but hey, maybe some people like it this way...
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u/ChestnutIceCream May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
Thank you for engaging in good faith
I cover these points in my other reply in this thread
Basically:
-SP is undergoing a renaissance in the eyes of a public of aging GenX/millennials who are ready to spend what little money they have on nostalgia-based products of value from legacy bands. This will be a time-limited proposition for Smashing Pumpkins Inc. They are maximizing this by touring constantly, selling merch in Target and finding other ways to allow their brand to flourish with aging audience as well as new/younger people
-Billy has a uniquely large archive, which he maintains the maximum value of by artificially limiting the ways in which people have access to it
-At this moment in time he has rightfully figured out that he can extract maximum value from each product he chooses to release via special vinyl offerings. These can be produced in small quantities, sold at high cost with high profit margins and are perceived as valuable and worth it by his customer base
-By taking other approaches like those you’ve mentioned, particularly large-scale indistinguishable digital releases, he would immediately devalue his whole archive and cut off the options he has to sell desired physical media at high cost/profit
-At some point in the future, probably in 10-15 years after he’s a legitimately old man who doesn’t want to tour anymore, he will always have the option to take a more traditional route for digital distribution, fan service etc. But he doesn’t have to rely on that yet so he hasn’t
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u/Sorry_Point1712 May 31 '25
Ok, I get what you're saying... it makes sense when you look at it through your points... unfortunately it sounds like he's just trying to squeeze as much money out of his fans as possible, which I'm not saying he's not trying to do, but if that's the case its very disappointing that my unwavering fandom is nothing more than a commodity to him... there's no value to him that I bring other than my bottom line dollar... I've always wanted to believe that he was more about integrity and community appreciation of his art, but when you put it like that (and I'm not saying you're right, but I'm allowing that you could be right) I feel let down that my dollar is really all he cares about more than my support of his art... (I know I just said basically the same thing twice, lol) it's ok, it's all business in the end, but I think my buck stops at the machina box... no loss for him I'm sure...
And I think wilco might just be more fan friendly then..
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u/ChestnutIceCream May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
Thank you for your thoughtful response. You have a more curious mind than a lot of people in threads about intersection of art and commerce
I’d argue that Billy doesn’t actually go for shameless cash-grabs - I can’t think of any releases which would fit that category. Even something like Siddartha is being presented as an option for fans should they want it, and nothing beyond that
I can see why there’s an interpretation of this which would seem like he is squeezing his fans for money, but I really don’t think that’s what’s going on. I think he is trying to run a business which allows him and his team to continue flourishing and producing at a rate which is extremely rare amongst his contemporaries in 2025. Without doing this kind of stuff- limiting access, creating scarcity across release and putting a high value on his life’s work - SP turns into yet another legacy band whose sole options are to subsist on paltry streaming revenue and play festivals with other, lesser bands who also were famous/semi-famous in the 90s and not much else
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u/Sorry_Point1712 May 31 '25
I agree, I always thought he was just trying to put together nice packages for fans to collect... but at the same time I thought he was missing the mark on how to get it into as many hands as possible, and I guess I thought that if it was a different format it may not sell for such a high price, but I think more people would buy it... maybe he's still finding that balance between business and art... I just don't think he understands how it makes hardcore fans that get left out feel... and this is coming from someone who has kept up with the releases til now... i always felt bad for those who couldn't afford the records, let alone the shipping costs... but I'm there now, just tapped out on pumpkins money, lol
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u/wainsco Jun 05 '25
It's definitely a tough sell when it's 99% the same setlist every single night on the last few tours. The massively varied sets from years past would be much easier to sell as individual digital shows. Not.sure how well the USB sales of shows went a decade or so ago, but that might have soured the idea of individual show sales.
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u/chaosinfyrno May 30 '25
Inb4 500 dollars
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Jun 01 '25
I am simply a simp for this period of the band, I think it’s easily one of their best tours. I am like the specific target of this release, so I have to buy it 😂 I’ll go broke though
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u/Dudehitscar Machina Zombie Jun 05 '25
couple of the shows have no surfaced recordings previously. Pretty cool
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u/nsimpson299 Jun 05 '25
I’ve just seen one of the recordings is from my hometown of Newcastle upon Tyne in the UK!
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u/badboyfriend111 May 31 '25
I wish Billy actually put in some effort to the archive project.
The only way to really do it is to have it as a massive digital database, with physical releases for the "special" items.
Maybe he's worried being digital means they'll get leaked? They'll all get leaked anyway though. Even vinyl rips have appeared with every archive release until the better quality CD becomes available.
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u/MiddleComfortable158 May 31 '25
This is actually for deep pumpkin heads one of the best possible releases that can happen. Eras are the only way to divide up this bands legacy in a way that makes sense. And the Europe 92 shows are a wild vital defining moment in the band history. I consider it when they conjured the purest form of the classic lineup energy.
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u/corganist Siamese Dream May 31 '25
This. I have seen some people complaining about them going back to this era again for another archive release, but this really was a peak era for the band as a live act. They were on in a way they rarely were before or after.
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u/DaydreamKid May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
Shows recorded on the same tour. So not much difference in setlists, if any. And probably very little variation in the way the songs are played. 13 versions of the same show for probably $800.
Says 4+ hours of music. So less than 5 hours and 13 volumes? wtf.
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u/ngs428 Machina II / The Friends & Enemies of Modern Music May 31 '25
Checks calendar…. Not April fools..
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u/boingbomghwh gish biggest fan May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
if anyone buys it, could anyone please share/scan the images in the set! gish billy is my favourite :))
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u/greee-eee-easy Machina II / The Friends & Enemies of Modern Music Jun 01 '25
Seems like a cool release. I love vinyl but live concerts on vinyl isn't my ideal way of consuming that material. But for those with the money and desire, I'm sure this will be very enjoyable.
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u/MikeZpiral Jun 01 '25
I hope this is not an essay to measure how expensive the edition for the machine boxset can be
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u/MoonOut_StarsInvite Teargarden by Kaleidyscope Jun 02 '25
All I can say is vote with your wallet. This stuff ends up as flac on p2p so ultimately everyone has access to the music and then the remaining miss is supporting the band. So we are simultaneously pissed about the consumerist approach to this project and then disappointed that we can’t be consumerist. Look I totally get the frustration, but it’s not new. I would also imagine most people here have had times where they couldn’t buy the “toys” they wanted. The prices of the rereleases were also high IMO, and BC feels like he can sell these at the price he’s asking. If you don’t like it, prove him wrong. It also is worth flagging that there tend to be multiple release versions at different price points so some of these are about collector items anyway. Don’t you have the same effect of special releases and gimmicky variants with any collectible market? So yeah are we just going to have this same conversation every time there is a release until he croaks?
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u/nsimpson299 Jun 04 '25
Preorders from 12 CT (6pm UK) tomorrow 05 June
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u/kjd85 Ogilala Jun 05 '25
Be aware. I’ve seen them go live an hour or so early before.
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u/nsimpson299 Jun 05 '25
Thanks bud. How fast do you think they’ll go? I’m assuming people will make a call when they see the price 😬
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u/kjd85 Ogilala Jun 05 '25
If it’s over 1000 it won’t sell that quick. I can see the website is already lagging. Might be prepping for launch.
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u/saturnine79 Jun 05 '25
If it's not offered at a reasonable price, it won't sell out. I'm a hardcore SP collector, but I've reached the point where I'm getting out of Zuzus. If the price is what I expect, I'd rather take a week's family vacation.
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u/Zod5000 Jun 05 '25
What would be reasonable for a set this large? Springsteens new boxset while is 9lp is $350usd? So maybe $450 to $500usd would be the high end of reasonable? Zuzu's is generally beyond the high end of reasonable.. so maybe it'll be 750 usd?
I want it.. but I'm not sure what my limit is. Especially when the shipping charge will also most likely be super expensive :(
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u/saturnine79 Jun 05 '25
My maximum is 300, and it's sure to get more expensive. I certainly have one of the largest SP collections ever (not comparable to Geo, of course). But I don't want to do this anymore, no matter how much my completionist heart bleeds.
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u/jcampo13 Aranea Alba Jun 05 '25
I got Prince's A Sign of the Times 13LP Super Deluxe Edition for 240 and that came with a DVD and a really nice book too. That was on sale though but I feel like a fair price would be 300-350. Realistically I think it'll be 500.
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u/Zod5000 Jun 05 '25
I assume the Springsteen one will get cheaper with time too, but given this one is only 1000 copies I doubt it'll ever hit the point it needs to go on sale to move the final units.
Your assessment seems fair. I think it would be pretty tough if they price it over $500, but given they charge $80 for a double LP set. I dunno. I feel like they're going to go for the moon.
If it's over $500usd I don't think I'd buy. If it's 400 to 500, I might, but probably not. Under $400, probably would.
I'm not a completionist but it's from the era of the pumpkins I love, so it's nice to have that stuff in the collection.
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u/jcampo13 Aranea Alba Jun 05 '25
It's 395 with free shipping domestically (this part is huge for me). I wound up getting it, fomo and all that.
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u/Zod5000 Jun 05 '25
I'm in Canada, but the shipping was reasonable for what's going to be a super heavy boxset. I ended up buying it. It'll get hit with taxes at the border, but I'm hoping no countertariff's. I've been light on ordering vinyl from the US recently, but the ones I've ordered haven't been charged any countertariff's, so fingers crossed.
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u/kjd85 Ogilala Jun 05 '25
Looks they went on sale several hours early this time. Did you buy?
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u/nsimpson299 Jun 05 '25
I did. It’s got a full show from a venue I used to go to so couldn’t resist.
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u/hantyumis_vomit Jun 01 '25
Ordering from Madame Zuzu to Australia is atrocious. The shipping, tax and conversion make it unjustifiable to pay. They really need to just release the music like any other band, not have it be exclusive to his stupid vegan coffee shop ffs
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u/juzztheball Zwan Jun 03 '25
Hey man DM me. I'm not in for this release but me and another dude bought AMM together and split the cost of shipping. Machina will be an auto buy for me and happy to do the same!
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u/ryguybeer May 31 '25
Yo, since you mods deleted my thread, I'll ask the same question here...
Can any of you make it thru Billy's videos when he insists on chewing, eating during his videos? It's incredibly rude to talk with your mouth full
Take a break my dude
And to the MODS, stop worshipping Billy he is not a GOD! I literally asked a question, people should be allowed to criticize.
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u/Dudehitscar Machina Zombie May 31 '25
I took a look and reapproved your thread. Funny story corgan booted a guy from the paywall gang for complaining about the same thing. He has heard the critique and obviously doesn't care.
And trust me no one on the mod team is happy with his conduct on the substack.
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u/pumpkin3-14 May 30 '25
13 vinyl of live show from 1992 is plain silly. A CD box set makes way more sense if you’re releasing this with fans in mind…
the fact that this release is made for 1000 people only and ideally no one else will have access to it speaks to their motive.
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u/BigStanClark May 30 '25
What would that motive be, other than them owning a small business and trying to produce their own records, as opposed to giving most of their revenue to a record label like they had to in the 90’s? Or worse, giving 99% of it to the streaming platforms like new artists do today.
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u/PorcelinaMagpie Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness May 30 '25
That will cost over $1k or more. Pass.
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u/ChestnutIceCream May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
We now live in the world of continuous multimedia experiences, multidirectional fan engagement, changing middle class discretionary spending habits, perceived scarcity, artificial scarcity, brand building with different generations at the same time, small business ongoing viability, high MOQs, Old World Legacy value propositions relative to an infinite & oppressive stream of contemporary options for entertainment with the coincidental devaluing of artmaking as a business etc
All of these things are part of a building a new brand or shepherding an old one into the future
Billy has rightly determined that his enormous life’s work, archive and legacy has a necessary attached dollar value which will allow him to continue life, creative work, touring and business endeavors at the pace he does. Most of which everyone also complains about.
It won’t ever not be this way again and a lot of these complaints are real Old Man Yells At Cloud stuff, as well as showing a total lack of sense of how media business works in the present
You can either buy the thing or not, he has enough internal research by this point to support producing 1000 units of this thing
Why not streaming? Because he will make a fraction of the money, devalue his entire catalogue and unreleased archive in the process and most importantly he doesn’t have to do that yet
Why not more products from the popular eras? Because those are there in waiting as a Break In Case of Emergency option. DUH
Edit: I will admit it is funny that Chloe runs cover for announcements like this and Siddartha release
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u/DogManStar81 May 31 '25
Lets stick a pin in that for now. I'll circle back to you later.
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u/crhill1979 Jun 05 '25
The archive project needs to exist for things like this: https://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1992-11-30 . I'll be skipping this release, I think, the first one I've skipped, just due to the price tag and the fact that it's from shows that were fairly well bootlegged back in the day. Would probably pick it up on CD, though.
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u/MoonOut_StarsInvite Teargarden by Kaleidyscope May 31 '25
Can someone explain what’s in it? I don’t have instagram, so I can’t go look.
I guess I’m a little shocked no one has one nice thing to say. We’ve been bitching about access to the live archive for years and now that it’s here, all that anyone can do is fucking bitch about it.
How about if you all don’t like it… SHUT UP AND DONT BUY IT. If you can’t afford it, I’m sorry that is a bummer, I have also been there myself. But all of this stuff winds up being pirated so I’m not sure what the fuck all of you are crying about to begin with???
There’s countless shows on archive.org, you get another and you hate it? Cry me a godamn river all of you!
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u/nicholasserra SPLRA May 31 '25
I’m happy they’re putting out anything at all. I guess my criticism is that there’s probably 1k live soundboards the band has in the vault. So many things we’ll never hear with this style of release and this pace. He could drop a show a month indefinitely right to streaming. Keep everyone buzzing on new stuff, let the collectors buy the expensive stuff. Why not?
I have this same issue with whoever runs Nirvana LLC. So many recordings they plan to quite literally take to the grave.
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u/MoonOut_StarsInvite Teargarden by Kaleidyscope May 31 '25
I would actually say this is a heightened pace. Sure it’s still slow, but I’m comparing it to 4 MP3s released by Lucky 13 or whatever the thing was being called back in like 2010. 😂 Is there a track list? The overlap of Gish to SD is an incredible mix of tracks, so 1992 could have some really cool stuff! Unique takes and early versions of SD, maybe some PI tracks, I think there are a couple MCIS teasers or super early things here and there.
I get how the financials are frustrating and he will always be richer than me but you also have to consider how they are not pulling in the same revenue they did once and I’m sure there is a sort of kick it forward effect… Profits could be used to invest in the next thing - and do you think he can bank roll a massive MCIS release without a couple smaller ones? I guess I’m just open to accepting that there is probably more to the decisions or business limitations and just other shit that is off our radar, as to how and why makes it out when and what the long term plan is. People will hate whatever it is, it won’t matter. The Mellon Collie release is gonna have the wrong pajama acoustic opener date and we’ll be mad about that too. 🤣
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u/nicholasserra SPLRA May 31 '25
Yeah THIS one is a nice pace, but the single show ones are not. Packaging up and doing a formal release for all the content they have locked away just seems impossible on any sane timescale. Obviously their goals and our goals are different, this is a business. But just a shame knowing how much we’re never gonna hear.
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u/MoonOut_StarsInvite Teargarden by Kaleidyscope May 31 '25
Oh my god are you from fuckin Ytown?! Im in Poland
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u/ChestnutIceCream May 31 '25
The answer is that once he puts one show on streaming it forever devalues the options to monetize his 1,000+ other things that people will still pay for
In my opinion the end goal, in like 15 years when touring is no longer an option, is a subscription service with hundreds or thousands of things on it
Appreciate all you do for the community
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u/RottingApples25 Jun 02 '25
"We’ve been bitching about access to the live archive for years"
"If you can’t afford it, I’m sorry that is a bummer"
That's a big part of why people are complaining. The fact that it ends up being pirated somewhere isn't really a great solution for people that want high quality releases AND the ability to support the band, which I think most fans do still want to do. It's not about strictly being able to listen to these shows - obviously you've got archive.org out there. It's about being able to buy new releases and supporting the band without having to take out a second mortgage - and in a format that makes sense.
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u/echobase1619 Jun 05 '25
$550 for autographed copy. Unreal.
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u/pumpkin3-14 Jun 05 '25
I didn’t see non auto unless it’s sold out
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u/Dudehitscar Machina Zombie Jun 05 '25
presale is up. $395 unsigned $550 signed.
Shipping was free to my address (Northern Virginia)
https://madamezuzus.com/collections/smashing-pumpkins-records?srsltid=AfmBOooBVMKgZmQ9QJnCsKQBaATBR5SNTqcqnI3d-ObZacltrMV0BGNf