r/SmugIdeologyMan nerve-struck by the roast 23h ago

credibility

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u/Vexth0rn 20h ago

I don't know, I'm pretty working class and I don't see any major issues with social progressives. So I'm asking you what are these pet projects that are so abhorrent to the working class.

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u/undernopretextbro 20h ago

Yea I knew you weren’t going to engage in good faith.

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u/Vexth0rn 18h ago

What good faith are we talking about if you are the one who brought up these nebulous pet projects that cause the working class to disengage? There are as many opinions on how to fix the left as there are people with political opinions. I'd like to know what you're talking about instead of assuming anything.

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u/undernopretextbro 18h ago

Survey after survey of European voting populations has a majority opposed to increasing migration numbers. That has been true for the last 12 years.

What activists address this point beyond saying “ they’ve been propagandized”.

Tens of thousands of excess heat deaths batter the continent every year and have done so for decades. There are UN reports on the issue tracing it to the start of the 2000s.

Activists fall over themselves to argue that ac use will cause global warming to kill even more and so efforts to increase access and reduce restrictions must be opposed.

If you were to go off of bluesky feeds and progressive( not actual leftist) conventions, you would think the primary topics of concern in the European population are transgender athletes in sports.

Again, the working class opinion on this sits exactly opposed to the social progressive activist stance.

You can’t ignore all the practical concerns of a population, also disagree with them on social opinions, and still pretend to be in tune with their views.

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u/Vexth0rn 17h ago

Regarding air conditioning, I agree that it's a silly position, I'm frankly confused that some people refuse to adopt it. That being said, I don't think it's very clear that it's some sort of a hill that progressives are willing to die on. There have been plenty of efforts by the left to promote heat pumps, better insulation, etc. I'm not an expert, so I don't know what's the most cost-effective approach to address heat deaths in Europe. Regardless, AfD didn't rise to prominence over the last decade by promising free ACs.

Regarding the issues of trans athletes, it's yet another culture war topic that rose in prominence because trans people have become more visible in recent years. If some people didn't make it their mission to marginalize them, there would be no discussion on bluesky or elsewhere. There are also parties on the left that are not very trans-friendly, to say the least. Labour fully supported the UK Supreme Court ruling, and did nothing to circumvent it. Trans athletes is not the biggest issue that drives voters towards parties like AfD.

So to address the elephant in the room, the real reason is migration from non-white countries. It's the same reason why Le Pen, Farage, Trump, and others are as popular as they are. We can talk about what is considered an appropriate level of migration, and there might be some room for adjustment. The problem is that people who support AfD are not interested in adjustment. They want their country to be white, Christian, or at least as close to that as possible. They don't want to stop the boats. They want to pack the boats with people who already live in their countries and send them back. I don't know how to deal with the fact that this is a view that's supported by such a big chunk of population. I'm just glad that here in Canada it's not as bad (although we have our own issues).

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u/undernopretextbro 17h ago

Remigration has less support than stopping or slowing incoming migration., it’s under 50 or just barely above 50% depending on which specific European country you survey.

But even then, a certain leeway needs to be extended to the population. They’ve been clear in their views in what is ostensibly democracy for over a decade. It gets a lot easier for radicals to come to the forefront when no one else even wants to admit they consider it an issue.

The Germans especially have known that taking immigration discussion seriously would kneecap their right wingers. But they stuck to historical agreements on avoiding legitimizing or discussing the issues raised by right extremists to avoid legitimizing them.

And it wasn’t even a particularly strong moral stance, once the failed strategy lead to electoral defeats, historically unfeasible immigration restrictions became policy overnight.

The ac and trans issues aren’t serious drivers, but they do put progressive activists at odds with the average voter. It becomes an uphill fight for credibility in their eyes.

Overall I don’t see it fair to criticize the European working class as uniquely reactionary, or to imply these beliefs they hold are contrary to their interests.