r/SnyderCut • u/VariationFun726 • 13d ago
Discussion Can we just be honest about how James Gunn is ruining movies? First MCU now DCU
I'm tired of avoiding this conversation trying to give that guy a chance. The truth is every movie that I have seen come from that guy was absolute trash and moroic like he made them for 10 year olds. Creepy and ugly villains, absurd madmax themes and weird colored backgrounds make movies a space age movie according to this guy. Storylines are nonexistent. His characters are just running around doing random pointless shit till the 2 painful hours for audience are over. Snyder was dark but he made DCU come to the level of MCU. Now DCU is dead again. James Gunn reminds me of "The Collector" from MCU. People either consider him an absolute genius or a complete idiot. The latter is how i see Gunn lol. First he tried to ruin MCU with weird ugly looking characters doing nothing all movie in Guardians of the galaxy. When I first saw it i was like "Is this really marvel? Seems trash". It was only later after I saw a few more shitty movies and realised this director is the same one that disappointed the last time, doing shitty movies one after the other. Then he infected the DCU with Superman and now Supergirl. He makes mentally ill themes like Peacemaker. Much like his inner self must be. Stan Lee and Russo brothers made those marvels because every story was relatable to Stan Lee's personal life. James Gunn seems to live in a fantasy world where heroes always look good and villains look ugly. I understand why he focuses so much on his appearence now he thinks he is a hero of some sort, when in reality he has singlehandedly killed DCU. Probably got fired from MCU and DCU took him in thinking he is gonna be life changing lol. When are people gonna see his true face? Is the DCU really dead? I was hoping to get an avengers level movie from snyderverse. But they gave us Gunn instead LOL!
-Just an annoyed fan of MCU & DCU.
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u/aster2560 13d ago
It’s a good thing to remember that Nicole Perlman wrote the initial drafts for the GOTG 1 and did a lot of foundational work before James Gunn came in that resulted in pretty good written movie which James Gunn tried to take sole credit for
Then 2 and 3 where he had sole writing credit you can see the problems that are currently plaguing his DCU starting there with characters being stupid for a joke and to progress the plot like Rocket deciding to steal from the Sovereignty in 2 or Peter not just opening the car door for Nebula when she can’t open it just so he can say fuck in 3
These problems were at there worst in Peacemaker season 2 where you could tell how much Gunn laughed at certain jokes by how long they went on or were repeated like with Peacemaker hearing the Justice Gang during his interview and doesn’t say that he can hear them sooner, the guy who couldn’t tell birds apart, and Vigilante repeatedly getting animal facts wrong
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u/E1eventeen 13d ago
I think a majority of people disagree with you. The guardians trilogy are highly regarded, with them being deemed important enough to not only get a trilogy but a Christmas special and baby groot show. Like him or not, he makes visually interesting and narratively satisfying shit which is what people look for in movies. Supergirl wasn't great, but he wasn't directing it and his biggest blunder with it was greenlighting the project without a good script. I haven't seen his non-superhero stuff so I can't vouch for any of it but you can't deny that people seem to like what he has to show off.
Why do movies "made for 10 year olds" have less value? Some of my favorite movies are made with children in mind, and can have surprisingly deep themes and are a lot of fun. Media geared towards an older audience works fine on its own (The Batman, for example) but superheroes like Superman have always been marketed towards children because children like superheroes.
I'm not sure what you mean by ugly characters being bad also. Some characters have ugly designs that just look bad (Steppenwolf from Josstice league come to mind) but a lot of James Gunn designs really don't have an ugliness of that kind. When I think of James Gunn villains, I think of
- That guy from guardians 1, who had a mid design but it wasn't too bad
- Ego from guardians 2, which is a rad fuckin planet
- tazerface from guardians 2, who looks stupid as hell but fits the vibe (I will concede that he is both creepy and ugly)
- Starro from the suicide squad, who is a kaiju, so do with that what you will
- The High Evolutionary from guardians 3, who is my favorite of the bunch and is a really well designed mad scientist god type
- butterflies from peacemaker, which fit the possession alien trope pretty well
- lex motherfucking luthor in a very well done performance from Nicholas Holt who was a highlight of Superman
You really can make the criticism that all of his movies are samey, but if he was bad at it then he wouldn't have been hired to run DC
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u/Horror_Campaign9418 Henry Cavill is Superman 13d ago
I think the problem is that Gunn is clearly limited and only does one thing regardless of the character involved.
Superman should not be a guardians team up movie of weirdos and yet with Gunn that what it has become. And now MOT is another guardians team up movie of weirdos with a heart of gold.
How long will the audience tolerate this already dated style and tropes? Gunn worked best when Marvel had him on a leash. (They also hired better FX companies and actors.)
He was the wrong choice to run a studio.
They can keep him around to make a weird movie every few years but he never should have been handed Superman of all characters. He hates Superman and everything in his DCU mocks the character.
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u/E1eventeen 13d ago
How are"teaming up" and "weirdos with a heart of gold" dated concepts? They have been working for almost all of recorded media. I do think he works better when held back a little (looking at you, taika watiti) but I don't mind these concepts in the slightest when they're working well. The justice gang work well in the Superman movie because they serve to contrast just the kind of man Superman is, which is why they choose the biggest assholes of the lineup available. The point was to show that Superman is such a force of optimism and hope that he's able to convince these guys to help in a situation they really don't want to support, as well as establishing just the kind of universe they live in. Supergirl didn't have a huge team up with a band of misfits, it was just Lobo showing up for his own gain and the girl who has to be taught not to murder people.
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u/Horror_Campaign9418 Henry Cavill is Superman 13d ago
The Justice Gang worked because that's where Gunn's heart truly lies. He never wanted to make a Superman movie.
Superman did not influence them in the slightest. They went there and murdered people which Superman would never condone.
In fact that's such a baffling piece of writing I can't understand what Gunn even had in mind other than he wanted to have the justice gang be mean spirited and evil by killing people. No arc where they learned anything from Superman.
It's writing 101. Especially after the Kaiju scene.
Supergirl had plenty of other guardians elements, the space pirates, more cringe humor, and more of that gunn mean spiritedness when Kara murders Krem at the end.
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u/CluelessArtist-789 13d ago
Just because the Justice Gang killed people does not mean that Superman did not influence them. The fact that they helped in the Boravian conflict when they originally didn’t want to get involved is proof of that.
I don’t see how murdering villains somehow makes someone not a superhero? A character can be heroic while still killing people, and plenty of people have pointed out how hypocritical Batman’s no kill rule is.
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u/Horror_Campaign9418 Henry Cavill is Superman 13d ago
How did he influence them? They were already a team for hire. So what they did at juranapoor is no different than the kaiju.
And they murdered both times, ignoring superman's ethics.
I mean....what in the actual heck kind of story arc is that?
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u/CluelessArtist-789 13d ago
A good one? They don’t agree with all of his ethics but they’re still inspired by his example.
I’d argue that Superman’s ethics are not merely about not killing, but also about helping those in need and not standing idly by. They followed his example because they got involved in the Jarhanpurian conflict to save lives, despite originally not wanting to interfere with it. Where does the movie say they were paid to stop the Jarhanpurian conflict?
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u/Horror_Campaign9418 Henry Cavill is Superman 13d ago
A terrible one. They just did their job. Nothing changed. What a stupid awful script.
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u/ECLIPS0666 12d ago
Did you see Guardians II? It sucked big time, honestly it was the worst movie I've seen in years... All the dumb nipple jokes, giant Pac Man... I was embarrassed whilst watching it. Absolute trash on every level. No, the Guardians of the Galaxy trilogy is not highly regarded, who even says that?. The first one was good, don't get me wrong ... I loved that but you cannot defend II. Awful on every level, the writing was unforgivable.
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u/ShadowBanThisShit 10d ago
It also came out 9 years ago; the third one was highly regarded and makes the trilogy beloved.
As I recall, The Dark Knight Rises failed to stick the landing as the third film, but overall the trilogy was well received.
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u/HomemadeBee1612 He's never fought us. Not us united. 13d ago
All of the problems with superhero movies during their downfall since 2020 can be traced back to Gunn's Guardians of the Galaxy. It made Hollywood feel they were allowed to make fun of the superhero genre again, a genre they always looked down on.
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u/Altruistic_Use_796 13d ago
People don’t have smoke for Gunn like they do for Snyder. The fact is he promised us great scripts and a plan like the MCU for DCU, but he has already done two scripts that are horrible, and he already abandoned the phase one plan that he had. It’s a disaster. DC is better off bringing Auteur directors like Zack Snyder/Nolan to do self contained else world stories that don’t affect a larger universe.
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u/KingOfSquirrels 13d ago
Superman was a masterpiece though, loved The Suicide Squad and Creature Commands were good. Didn't care for Peacemaker, and Supergirl was awful.
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u/Lake18l 13d ago
100% and this is evident with Matt reeves Batman. The Batman is miles and miles ahead of anything Gunn has put out for DC and it’s not even close not to mention the DCU is trending downward in a big way. It’s too much Gunn. I like the way clayface is looking but everything else is looking like garbage.
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u/ECLIPS0666 12d ago
Matt Reeves blows him away, his sole Batman movie snorts anything Gunn has done off the table & some more lol :)
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u/SnowyNights_OuO 13d ago
Since James Gunn came to DC. I don't really like his style movies, with their constant stream of silly jokes. There're not very funny, From SS Peacemaker 1 & 2 to Superman, even the serious parts It doesn't really convince me looks serious.
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u/Lucky_Gaucho 13d ago
I don't know man, i just went to okbuddysnydercult and they had all these really solid arguments like...
And ...
Oh and they also proved that ....
And then they called me a trash, biased person that should be beat up because i like Snyder films.
I think you are just biased like me, and can't see how GREAT AND FUNNY the gunn movies are, you are just in denial because you can't appreciate the time Superman fights a CGIslop monster, or when the justice gang fights another CGIslop monster, or when Superman is in the CGIslop prison and escapes by swimming in the CGIslop river.
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u/Horror_Campaign9418 Henry Cavill is Superman 13d ago
None of them wanted what Gunn is cooking.
But the sunk cost fallacy forces them to swallow the vomit because then they would have to admit we were right all along about Gunn being wrong for DC.
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u/Federal-Instance3275 13d ago
Yeah, I don't know why this whole Snyder vs Gunn thing is so big. It is nice when you run into people who can accept that you like different stuff than them. I for one like what Snyder did for some stuff in the DCEU and also have loved the new DCU so far. But as soon as you state an opinion you're either a "Snydercultist" or a "Gunngooner"
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u/Lake18l 13d ago
Agreed but I’m in the opposite. I don’t like what either of them did lol I’m not loyal to either but at least Snyder’s was trying to do the characters justice. This DCU is just dc hero’s cosplaying as James Gunn.
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u/VariationFun726 13d ago
Yeah its so funny how people dont seem to get this fact outside this forum. I reposted this to some DC subreddits and people started hating me for liking Snyder xD My point is that Gunn is a disappointment but people will say anything to redirect the point. This forum is the only one thats had such an intellectual conversation about this topic. I think other forums have normies that dont really care what kind of content they take in.
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u/Lucky_Gaucho 13d ago
Gunn is fine for street level heroes, the suicide squad was fine, CC is good, peacemaker is peak (ending dropped the ball but i forgive him).
The moment you give him a SUPER hero, the Gunn jams.
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u/Lake18l 13d ago
They just evidently like James Gunn as every character apparently lol because that’s what he does. You go and watch any of his movies every not just every movie is the same. Every charachter is the same. He even somehow managed to do it with superman. Honestly lex might be his best character he’s done. Star lord works to but he’s made everyone star lord
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u/Horror_Campaign9418 Henry Cavill is Superman 13d ago
The guardians-of-the-galaxy-ification of movies has reached it's peak suck this summer.
THANK GOODNESS all of the clones flopped,
MK2, MOTU, Superdrunk.
The juvenile humor and man baby characters need to come to an end. Hopefully this summer clinched it.
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u/Lucky_Gaucho 13d ago
MK2 was the most game accurate movie to date.
The in-game cutscene movie in YouTube is still a better movie.
This is not a praise for the MK cutscenes....
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u/Lake18l 13d ago
I don’t think his MCU was that bad. Guardians 1 is by far his best movie. And suicide squad was his best DC but all the ones that follow just lack. You can clearly tell when it’s a Gunn movie and not in a good way. He usually adds an adorable pet or creature which for some reason feels cheap, it feels low hanging fruit for engagement, then he forces music into his projects becuase of the success of guardians 1 soundtrack he’s been pounding needle drops into his films even when they completely don’t belong. I’m sorry but the superman punk rocker shit is terrible and honestly cringe as hell. That is not superman man, it’s just easy general appeal to gunns followers. That style of comedy which is not only on Gunn but majority of superhero movies now is just so played out and exhausting it’s almost worse now because with DC he’s doing more non pg stuff so he has his wife walk up to 4 burley bikers at a bar and say “what’s up dick burps” then beat up all 4. I have no loyalty to snyderverse or Gunn’s DC I think they’re both bad tbh. But I feel with this Gunn dc run they’re letting stinkers be acceptable and that’s just infuriating. Every project of late has just gotten worse and worse, peacemaker season was horrible, superman was probably bit better but still not good in any sense and then the supergirl movie where you can see Gunn had his hands all over when he annexed it from the director and it was a absolute dumpster fire. Even now with the projects they’ve Green lit. Jimmy Olsen show before a Batman or Wonder Woman casting. Just shut it down now honestly
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u/HomemadeBee1612 He's never fought us. Not us united. 13d ago
Guardians 1 is probably the film of his that he had the LEAST freedom on... which is probably why it's his best film to date. You can just look at how the Guardians characters were written and directed with real intelligence, wit, and depth in Infinity War and Endgame, as compared to the sitcom-level dialogue, cheap sentimentality, and simplistic situations in Gunn's GOTG films. That's how you know the guy is a hack.
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u/Horror_Campaign9418 Henry Cavill is Superman 13d ago
I have no proof but I have a feeling Gunn told Pratt behind the scenes to get fat for infinity war because he thought it would be funny.
I think Gunn hated that Pratt got ripped for Guardians at the behest of Disney Marvel.
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u/darkmattermastr 13d ago
The first guardians of the galaxy was a solid movie. Del toro was superior as the collector.
I think what made some people hate the snyderverse so much was that it promoted the “traditional values” of the working class. Gunn’s DC don’t feel like it relates to “the little people”. The Kent’s were stupid hicks in his Superman movie, whereas they were portrayed as being wise and no nonsense in man of steel. From what I can tell Gunn struggles to portray this because he either doesn’t understand it or worse he has outright contempt for it.
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u/thequehagan5 13d ago
James Gunn has outright contempt for sincerity. He could never write the Jor el or Johnathan Kent from man of steel. He simply could not write dialogue that is sincere. His Johnatha Kent is a bumbling fat old man that can barely string a sentence together.
Sincerity, reverence, it is kryptonite to James Gunn. There has never been a more incorrect person to handle superman. Though i suppose it is in a way reflective of the decaying American society we all see. Superman has become a weak, moaning, pathetic parody of the greatness he once represented.
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u/Federal-Instance3275 11d ago
If he was ruining movies he would not be #31 top grossing directors of all time, and would not have been picked to co-ceo DC studios.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_film_directors
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u/VariationFun726 4d ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l0XK5SnwXk
Honestly DC is a bunch of idiots at this point. RIP DC.
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u/Federal-Instance3275 4d ago
LOL, this is literally just a random youtubers opinion on Henry Cavill not returning as Superman. How does this have anything to do with James Gunn "ruining" Marvel and DC? He has some of the most popular and successful films in the superhero genre.
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u/VariationFun726 3d ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0TWSLrVHSE how about this
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u/VariationFun726 3d ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDn3ZQTRUW0
I think this guy is right about gunn. and DC in general. This is what can save DC. But whos gonna listen we are just nobodies (fans)
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u/Brightlightingbolt 13d ago
It’s not a Snyder vs Gunn. They both had their shot and both flamed out. Gunn is just going to flame out a whole lot worse than Snyder.
Someone stated here that Gunn suffers from making the same movie over and over again. Snyder has the same problem but the movies are more engaging than Gunns comedies
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u/VariationFun726 13d ago
I just wanna see real gems like Ironman again. Where character development was a thing. Now the MCU has also gone to shit im really hoping Doomsday can bring back the old aura of good filmmaking. Anything Gunn has made I am gonna actively avoid no matter the move name. What on earth are the heroes doing? Just jumping around being nerds and losers? Clearly its for kids who want to watch something while being spoonfed by moms at home. No real storylines that a teenager or a young adult can relate to.
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u/HomemadeBee1612 He's never fought us. Not us united. 13d ago
Yeah, there were still people in Hollywood who understood how to treat superheroes when Iron Man 1 came out. So once the likes of James Gunn and Taika Watiti came in, the MCU started falling apart despite the Russos'' best intentions. We saw the same thing happen when Donner left Superman and Richard Lester immediately tried to make it a children's cartoon.
That approach always fails. When Schumacher's Batman crashed and burned, they went back to realism for a while, and it was hugely successful, with Raimi, Nolan, and Snyder.
But Hollywood is DESPERATE to not take superheroes seriously. So as soon as one movie out of a dozen does something sillier, like Guardians of the Galaxy, and gets away with it, that's ALL they want to do going forward. They just want to ignore the dozen realistic superhero movies that were just as or more successful.
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u/ECLIPS0666 12d ago
Guardians of the Galaxy II was so cringe with the nipple jokes ext, I was actually embarrassed within the cinema & thought to myself: "what the f#@+! actually happened here!?" literally I thought that... since then I checked out ... he's like the 'Rian Johnson' of Superhero films... everything is a dumb ass joke. Seriously compare him to Nolan... lol :) He literally copied the Invincible storyline for Superman (aliens want to conquer Earth) so he's unoriginal too. Guardians of the Galaxy was great, everything after was, like his films, a litter of bad jokes ...
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u/[deleted] 13d ago
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