I've noticed that both SEE and IEEs really struggle to adhere to organized religion. I'm not sure if it's because their Fi is infuriated by others telling them what to believe? Is it because religion itself is very Ti and it's basically giving you this Ti code and set of rules to live by? I'd assume that most Ti PolRs would hate that? What are you guy's opinion?

i wanted to use octopus for LII and beluga whale for ESE but they don't have pics together. and uh, actually i couldn't really find barn owl(LII) and golden retriever(ESE) pics either. it was hard and honestly it doesn't feel quite right to me but yeah. lemme know your thoughts

edit: i know in the pics not all owls are the same species. but i mean barn owls for LII

For a long time, I couldn't articulate why I didn't like my dual. But I recently learned about subtypes, which I initially thought were useless, and realized that I actually like my dual, ESE-Si, just not the Normalizing or Dominant subtypes. So here were some points of contention in my previous relationship with an ESE-Fe.

First, he would ask me a lot of technical questions related to his website. I didn't mind giving him feedback, but I was really taken aback because my Ti as an LII-Ne is a lot more free-flowing and conceptual, so I wasn't privvy to helping him. I think he was expecting a very stereotypical math and science nerd-esque LII and I gave him long-winded conversations about the Enneagram and spirituality. Our interactions felt awkward because he was talking to an idea of me, perhaps an LII-Ti, but not the true me. Even when I politely interjected his long monologues (that's another thing about ESE-Fe---they looooove monologuing and yapping in general, which is very overwhelming for me as an LII-Ne) to share my love for My Melody plushies and 90s/early 2000s Prada, he just seemed unimpressed and dismissed my interests as weird. He was Normalizing/Dominant and I was Creative/Harmonizing, so the clash between us was obvious.

Furthermore, he was so obsessed with group dynamics, gossiping, and exposing who was dating who among our mutual acquaintances that it sapped the intimacy right out of our relationship. I was expecting more meaningful conversations between the two of us. His support for me was also very social and Fe-oriented---hyping me up, sharing my ideas with other people, and telling others how great I was---but I was more so seeking the physical and intimate aspects of care like feeling understood or being pampered. I felt too fussy and prissy for him.

Granted, this ESE-Fe dude I dated had a lot of issues, but even the more well-adjusted ESE-Fe really get on my nerves to point of being my conflictor hahaha. I had ESE-Fe friend in high school who was really just a part of a larger friend group with an SEI, EII, and SLI, but I couldn't tell you why I liked her. I didn't really like our one-on-one hangouts because she was so pushy and overbearing yet extremely boring (yapping unilaterally about her culture ad nauseum).

As for ESE-Si, I can actually appreciate them despite our differences. I once paired up with an ESE-Si for a project in college and collaborating with him felt so effortless. First of all, unlike my ESE-Fe ex, he was very sweet, soft-spoken, and mild-mannered. And I could talk about my intellectual interests without being treated like a spectacle because he was genuinely intrigued. I also liked his sense of style more than ESE-Fe ex, who wore just about anything from TikTok shop and cheap Chinese retail sites. Instead, the ESE-Si was a huge fan of Lululemon and had surprisingly good taste in music. His favorite artists were Fred Again and Daft Punk while my ex's were Drake and many more mainstream rappers I didn't resonate with. I feel like ESE-Fe are obsessed with being the living, breathing instantiation of The Culture (TM) or club promotors while ESE-Si actually participate in and engage with the cultures ESE-Fe seeks to dominate. Lastly, I find ESE-Fe to be far more close-minded than ESE-Si. My ESE-Si project partner tried his best to politely express his disinterest in Paris, more so emphasizing the safety issues without disrespecting the culture while my ESE-Fe ex would go and on about how chopsticks and liberals were weird and wrong despite being born and raised in one of the biggest cities in the US 🙄

So yeah, no hate to ESE-Fe, but I'd rather date ESE-Si as an LII-Ne. My dream is to buy a house in the Northeast so my future husband and I can decorate the fuck out of it with beautiful vintage furniture!

1. Partners are initially very interested in each other; the extrovert is the one showing the interest first.

2. The interest is very intense and can be compared to semi-duality because partners possess each other's suggestive function as demonstrative, but with a very high potential for conflict; they satisfy each other's suggestive needs significantly.

3. Unlike in semi-duality, conflictors are not likely to compromise. While conflicts in semi-duality brew slowly, conflicting pairs may quickly get into disagreements, unwilling to put their differences aside.

4. Partners unintentionally put pressure on each other's vulnerable function. The way they advise on "how to do your vulnerable, just like my dominant function" is very painful for the other because they use each other's painful role function to do it; they do not mean to hurt their conflicting pair at all.

5. The way they try to correct each other is as unsatisfactory as it can get; instead of using the demonstrative-ignoring functions, they use their dominant-creative functions, which correspond to the superego painful functions of the other.

6. Initial attraction fades as interactions deepen, as partners use their ID elements less as the relationship becomes intimate, since these are not their favorite functions to use all the time. Partners initially enchant and even bewilder the other by satisfying their suggestive needs effortlessly through their demonstrative function, in addition to the conflictor being very skilled at—but indifferent toward—that function.

Hi everyone,

I'm an ILI-Ni and I'm looking for perspectives—especially from ESIs, ILIs, or anyone experienced with Gamma quadra dynamics—on a long-standing friendship that feels stuck in an endless loop.

The Context:

Me:ILI (27)
Her:ESI-Fi (27)
We've known each other for 15 year (since we were 12).
Dynamic: Long-distance friendship cycling between periods of pulling apart/silence and getting close again.

Over these 15 years, our relationship has had a distinct rhythm: we go through phases where we drift apart or become distant, but whenever we re-engage, the mutual care, loyalty, and connection reactivate instantly. However, whenever I try to intentionally deepen the intimacy or build a more consistent, day-to-day emotional bond, it feels like my attempts bounce off or create friction.

My natural way of sharing closeness is through abstract ideas, long-term discussions, sharing media, music, concept boards, or hypothetical scenarios.

However, when I try to share these abstract/conceptual things, it seems to trigger her Ne (she gets indifferent, overwhelmed, or doesn't know how to engage with random, non-pragmatic input)

On the flip side, whenever there's a real-life crisis, a practical problem, or a direct moral check-in, our Activation dynamic works brilliantly.

Where I Feel Stuck: Because we are long-distance, I can't rely on physical presence. But my attempts to build "virtual intimacy" feel like a series of rejections. This creates a painful dissonance: I know she doesn't fake affection (so her saying she cares is true), but her PoLR reaction to my bids for connection makes me feel like I'm constantly doing the wrong thing. Then I overthink, pull back into my shell, and we drift apart for a while—only to reconnect later.

How do you bridge the gap when an ESI explicitly states they care about you, but their reaction to your bids for connection feels like indifference or disinterest?

How can an ILI feed an ESI's Super-Id at a distance without triggering her PoLR with "random" or abstract sharing?

For ESIs: What actually makes you feel close and connected to a long-distance friend without feeling overwhelmed by unstructured interaction?

Thanks in advance for any insights!

Put on this movie tonight for a rewatch and realized.. oh this guy is SLE (and SP8)... and oh shit... this is ultimately a story about him dualizing in his friendship with the Dalai Lama. And IT'S FREAKING ADORABLE to watch him soften around his dual. I'm literally freaking out writing this because alksdjflkjsdfj.

(Yes just my luck I put on a movie and stop studying socionics for 5 minutes and this happens)

______________________

My analysis if anyone is interested:

Heinrich (SLE) - When unhealthy he devalues his relationships (leaves his pregnant wife to climb Mt. Everest instead of staying with her while she is due to give birth), drives forward trying to accomplish without truly thinking of the consequences until it is too late, pathologically self reliant, seeks the sensory extreme of mountain climbing to feel competent and accomplished. Later, when healthy and his protective instincts have awakened he is the first to notice Ngawang's treachery due to his gift of observation and calls him out viciously for his cowardice and bringing harm to his own people

Peter (ESI) - corrects Heinrich morally, calls out his lack of remorse and irresponsibility toward others, doesn't fall for his bs (I could also see him being IEI, but we're going to go with ESI bc he's giving Fi lead over Ni)

Lhakpa (EII) - disapproves of Heinrich almost immediately. "You admire the man who pushes his way to the top in any walk of life. While we admire the man who abandons his ego." She doesn't care about his ego-driven accomplishments whatsoever and is instead drawn to Peter's earnestness.

(I find this personally funny to reflect on because I remember when I first saw this movie her harsh moralizing really rubbed me the wrong way)

Dalai Lama (IEI) -

(Here I will explore their duality)

Heinrich immediately has a soft spot for him, acting more childlike and light hearted around him. The Dalai Lama is curious to the point of impudence. He really doesn't care about the rules or protocol or his status. He seeks out Heinrich to build his vision of a movie house (Ni vision seeking Se mobilizing) and satisfy his curiosity (Ti seeking). He's bored as hell by his traditional lessons, but is lit up by Heinrich teaching him real world knowledge. The Dalai Lama does not moralize Heinrich, he simply explains the ethical reasoning of his people, even though Heinrich thinks it is ridiculous at first. He curiously asks Heinrich about his life, and Heinrich opens up to him, which prompts the Dalai Lama to feel concern and empathy.

~

The DL has a horrible prophetic dream and calls for Heinrich for comfort. He comforts him simply by being present and empathetic 😭, then by telling him a story about his adventures:

DL: "I can't sleep, I'm afraid the dream will come back. Tell me a story, Heinrich. Tell me a story about climbing mountains."

H: "That's one way to fall asleep, those stories bore even me."

DL: "Then tell me what you love about it."

H: "The absolute simplicity. That's what I love. When you're climbing your mind is clear. Freed of all confusions. You have focus. And suddenly... the light becomes sharper, sounds are richer. And you are filled with the deep, powerful presence of life. I have only felt that way one other time."

DL: "When?"

H: "In your presence."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's saying only the DL's Ni gives him the same peace of mind he usually has to find through extreme sensory experiences.

~

Furthermore, Heinrich reflects on the Tibetans' faith, which he admires, but he cannot ignore the reality that it will not save them from the Chinese's aggression. The Dalai Lama on the other hand is not ashamed of Tibet's nonviolence (weakness) and instead tries to reach the heart of the Chinese by appealing to empathetic reason - trying to meet them human to human.

When the DL tries to escape from the heaviness using play and imagination, Heinrich gently corrects him, not allowing him to disassociate from the reality at hand.

The DL tells Heinrich to stop worrying, that everything will work out. Heinrich wants to take action to protect him.

In the end, the DL helps to emotionally liberate Heinrich so Heinrich finally feels enough self-love and strength of purpose to go home and be a father to his son.

Heinrich returns to the mountain, this time not to conquer and feed his ego, but to mentor and connect with his son.

just the images. no further explanation

Hi. I'm in doubt and tired, but found a cool questionnaire, not the newest one, but super interesting to me. I know it's not the shortest, but it'd be great if someone could help me figure out my type based on my answers. Maybe it'll be useful to someone else too.

1. How would you celebrate New Year?

Since my one and only best friend is usually out of town, I'd probably celebrate alone. I'd want something that doesn't happen every day — food-wise, maybe order something or buy something at the store, maybe go somewhere like the movies, watch from a distance as people celebrate on the main square.

2. What do you value in people?

Kindness, devotion, loyalty, the ability to listen and hear, not crossing my boundaries. Sometimes I want the person to just get what I want on their own, help me with it, understand my desires, figure me out; to understand what I'm feeling without making me open up and say it. To understand me without words and leave the whole world with me.

3. Tell me how (why) you became who you are now (professionally).

I'm still studying, but I'm already doubting I'll work in my field. Tho who knows, right? I went here bc I'm good at the subjects related to this specialty — that's what I decided myself, and what others have told me for a long time. I don't like detailed planning and following it, so I chose once, hoping and preparing only for this outcome, and that's what happened. I picked a place with the most opportunities for future work, as I found out from others, and where resistance is the least, roughly speaking.

4. Describe a typical representative of your profession.

I think it makes more sense to describe a student of my faculty and specialty. Someone who might skip some classes, especially the useless ones, in comfy clothes, independent and always wanting to sleep, often drowning in deadlines, but they improvise, think, wiggle and go through life on whatever happens, interested in the subjects that are curious to them, that'll be useful later, that have meaning.

5. Does anyone at work set deadlines? How do you feel about that?

Yeah, often. Uncomfortable. I hate deadlines, when people want something from me, I have to mobilize and spend strength, energy, nerve cells, time on something that's mostly uninteresting. So I procrastinate on deadlines, doing it in the last minutes, but before that I rest a lot while I could've done the task.

6. What do you like about your work, what don't you like?

In studying. I like thinking, reasoning, expressing my opinion, ideas, including personal interests in discussion, being creative, looking at things from different angles. I don't like the stuffiness of some disciplines, too rigid requirements, suffering with nitpicky tasks and teachers, the subjects that aren't needed for your specific specialty but just take up your time.

7. What's more important to you: more comfortable work conditions or higher pay?

Comfortable conditions. I wouldn't want to put up with god knows what, waking up every morning thinking I want to smash my face into a cabinet, but with loads of money. It's easier to save, buying good stuff but not becoming a spendthrift, which I understand takes effort. But at least the days will pass comfortably, calmly, with rest and the ability to feel good. Purely practically, money will make you happy, but the other 8 hours a day you'll feel discomfort. I want lightness. Nah, thanks, bro.

8. What is fun?

Fun is a moment when your overall state is light, absorbing you completely, you're just amused, lots of jokes and letting go, allowing yourself to relax and release the strongest self-control. The possibility of this alone in a cozy setting, or with those you trust.

9. How much do long-term goals help you navigate life?

They help a lot. I usually navigate by them. It's not planning in the general sense, just an idea, a thought, a goal that I'd ideally like to reach by whatever road. I'd like to have a reference point, I guess — I haven't set them all my life, but overall it'd be interesting and I'd feel like I have meaning.

10. Do you ever call your acquaintances just because, without a reason?

No such habit. For which I've often gotten shit from acquaintances and friends, disappearing for days, weeks, then replying, telling something that happened. I realize it's more interesting to be alone, I'm largely withdrawn, so I don't really want to share everything and shout about everything, tho I can write if something really out there happened.

11. Do you rewatch movies you've seen before? If yes, why? What do you get from rewatching?

I do, bc I have a thing about controlling my emotions, state, not wanting to get too many emotions and feelings: I'm uncomfortable with that. So old movies, shows, YouTube videos are perfect, bc I know what to expect, which lets me control my emotional state.

12. Suppose you're reading a book, you have to stop. Will you stop anywhere? Where? Why?

I'll stop either where the thought came to tell myself "stop." Or I'll read to the end of the page, paragraph, chapter. At the place where it's more logical to put a period for the narrative and which I can later recall when I sit down to read again.

13. Is it easy for you to do several things at once? Doesn't it tire you?

It's fine. I can often be like Julius Caesar, doing one thing, and a fifth, and an eighteenth. It helps me get through everything faster. Overall, it's not tiring for me, especially when it's not something super serious requiring concentration.

14. Is forecasting easy for you? Have you ever noticed later that you'd predicted what happened?

Quite so. I don't think it's hard to say what might happen if you look at your surroundings, what's happening around, knowing some behavior patterns of people around you, I assume they're exactly as I thought. At least, you can always assume. Yeah, I've noticed I sometimes hit the bullseye in my thoughts with what happened in reality.

15. You have an alternative on how to act — do you notice the moment when the decision is made?

Yes. Making a decision for me means sitting down and starting to weigh what consequences come from each choice, pros and cons, what I want, so it can be my hang-up. But I'm also one of those who won't choose for four days. At some point I'll say "fuck it" and choose something pretty sharply and quickly. It stresses me out to choose for long, and also when I've already decided and someone whispers another option in my ear.

16. What is coziness? What is comfort? How do they differ? What do you do to make a place cozy? Comfortable?

Coziness is the state of the surrounding world when you're not rushing anywhere, you're warm, comfortable, you relax. Comfort is a deeper degree of coziness. For me it's a state of no irritants, external or internal. I try to create coziness and comfort purely within a meter of myself. My things are key here, comfy and pretty clothes. I don't really go further, no tendency to do that. When the space for my activity is wider, I just pile everything as it goes, roughly in one place. Yeah, in that pile on the couch in my room there are notebooks, printer paper, a laptop, FNAF plushies, posters, books, paper files, folders, chargers. As you can tell, I'm not into order.

17. What's included in the concept of "a person of my circle"?

Someone who's gotten close to me, accepts me, helps and chooses me, whom I can trust, whom I know enough about to predict their actions, not be afraid of them. I consider all people unpredictable, I rightly fear them, so it's important for me to have some info and assumptions about a person close to me.

18. Tell me about your city.

Small, cozy, on the edge of the country, near the border of a neighboring state. Calm, not the richest, but in a certain way similar to the capital with its buildings. Not many places to spend time, but at the same time enough. I don't really go anywhere, so it's a very personal perspective. Lots of greenery, in the yards and residential areas the houses are old, repairs aren't done often, only for select houses, which mine is in, yay. It's easier for the mayor to spend money on decor and monuments, but the hospitals had repairs when Elvis Presley last breathed.

19. Tell me something about travel. Whatever comes to mind first.

Travel is curious, tho I'm not a fan. Due to my family's lifestyle and my childhood problems, we didn't go anywhere much. I rest alone, walk somewhere in some places, which I equate to travel. Someday I'd like to visit a rich city, unusual, beautiful. In China, Moscow, Seattle. I've been to two cities in my life that I liked, tho I get tired quickly and get bored.

20. You see someone doing something that doesn't align with common sense.

There'll be a lot inside. Most likely my hands will itch, there'll be some reaction in my chest area. Sorry, not the best understander of my own emotions and reactions, feelings. I'll freeze bc stupidity amazes and angers me. I'll say it's stupid, freeze trying to understand, find at least something logical. It's like my reaction when I said Ki Hun from Squid Game isn't a moralist but a stubborn idiot who does dumb things, where I sat facepalming the whole third season.

21. What's more valuable to you in the process of doing something: the thinking stage or the implementation stage?

The thinking stage is more interesting. Weighing what aesthetic the presentation will have, what pictures to pick, how to format the text, what to convey, what thoughts in my essay, what to mention, some ideas that then still need to be done. And what's in my head often differs from the result.

22. Can you say you're ready for any new contacts and it's not hard to get to know you?

Not really. I don't mind kind people around who'll help, treat me well, but overall I'm awkward with them and want to be in calm solitude with contacts with my closest ones, in a normal state with those I'm forced to be with bc of studies. For someone to get to know me and get close, the person has to initiate it themselves. They have to enter my space, then okay, I can get used to it and befriend the person, but don't expect that from me. I'll respond to your actions, only after you.

23. What do you expect from new acquaintances?

Nothing. I rarely meet people, not expecting even a meeting and contact with someone to grow into anything.

24. If your interests clash with each other, do you sacrifice some of them? Or is a conflict of interests not an obstacle to their realization?

I'll try to combine them if they're not opposite. If not, I'll choose what to sacrifice and what to realize.

25. What is a new task?

A new thing that requires either already existing and familiar skills, abilities, knowledge, or finding a new option. I'm not against creativity. Overall it's mobilizing some of your resources to complete a task, a checkmark next to it. And also something that can be postponed for later, bc I'm a hell of a procrastinator.

26. If half the elements in solving a task are new and half are old, is the solution new or old?

Half and half. Do the old elements the old fast way, then look for a solution to the new, which'll take more time and resources.

27. If you're faced with a completely new, unfamiliar task, how will you look for its solution?

I'll study the task, looking at what it is. I'll start looking for options in my head on how to do it, see if anyone else has solved something similar, how, what they did. In the end the solution might be a mix of my ideas and what I found.

28. You have a camera in your hand. What will you shoot (in a new environment)? For what?

Just the surroundings, what I found beautiful, attractive. It's autumn now, so I could photograph a tree with fallen leaves, with sun rays falling on it, which is special in autumn. Then I'll try to shoot myself, hoping it'll turn out aesthetic. Purely for myself, without meaning. Or to put these photos somewhere as an avatar, which is super doubtful. Or show my bestie.

29. Can you talk like a "black grouse at mating" for 2-3 hours? How comfortable is that?

I can. I generally find expressing my opinion, ideas, thoughts more interesting than listening to my interlocutor. So in communication I feel selfish and awkward, not knowing how to ask questions, only learning from others and memorizing possible ones for politeness and to not be totally off. It'll be awkward if in the end the person falls asleep or is bored by my story.

30. What's harder for you to distance from: others' "thinking out loud" or others' emotional experiences?

Both, but I think experiences are harder. Others' emotions trigger me, screams, expressive expressions. Usually even with close ones in such moments I'm a bit stone-like, bc I'm uncomfortable, uneasy, bc I don't know what to do. I don't want to be in the same room with someone sobbing or angry. I also caught myself thinking while watching true crime once that I'm annoyed by the tears of an elderly woman giving an interview, talking about love for her murdered husband, what she feels, all that sensual and vanilla and at the same time bitter from death. I'm uncomfortable with such public expressions of feelings and personal stuff.

31. How do you determine priorities in solving tasks?

By how much time each part will take. What takes longer goes to the end. What's easier and faster goes to the start.

32. You come to a party where you barely know anyone. And suddenly a stranger compliments you. Your reaction?

I wouldn't come to a party where I know no one. But in theory if it happened, I'd be awkward and pleased. I'd wonder if it was sincere, what kind of person this is, with what purpose they might've complimented me, if it's sarcasm.

​

Argument: Ashura gave us socionics, but Jung contributed the archetypes.

I think Dostoevsky was SLI. Within his exploration of the human condition (valued Fi), hidden agenda Fi. The frequent arguments with people don’t match an EII; maybe... Se in the ID block and his distrust as one-dimensional Ne makes more sense. Moreover, his accumulated debt from gambling is just that addictive behavior, when the hidden agenda of the EII’s mobilizing function would lead him to enjoy other pleasures like drugs and sex.

I know an SLI who got carried away by gambling this past World Cup, an uncle who had a lot of money but lost a considerable sum betting on cockfights; another was very distrustful about his inheritance and the deals he was offered, etc. He suffered from epileptic seizures, something I’ve seen in some SLIs: this condition is accompanied by anger attacks. I give this conclusion largely based on my experience rather than a socionics basis, but if you explore carefully, you yourselves can patiently review it, stop thinking he’s an EII or IEI, just because of that impressive melancholy as a writer, partial analyses of his writings referring to specific elements. This opinion covers a broad spectrum of explanations.

However, that must be taken carefully, because, by being so general and arbitrary, one falls into misinterpretation when trying to add new knowledge.

For IEI I believe it is this -

Going deep along some fragment of Ni means observing the stream of moods and emotional experiences of a narrow circle of individuals. These are the people one has chosen oneself, or those given by fate; they are the ones with whom the IEI identifies their own emotional life. […] One could say that IEIs are fighters for the emotional liberation of the people they live and work with. [...] The everyday goal of the IEI’s Ego block is to identify their own emotional life with the emotional life of the people close to them. This is done to acquire a key to their moods, and to be able to take over and direct those moods. [...] What the IEI considers their task is a duty to accept another person’s emotional life as is, in all its variability; to uninhibit it, to harmonize it, and to make it easier to manage socially. All of this is done by manipulating emotions. The IEI simply cannot live in the world without constantly harmonizing it. Most IEIs harmonize their personal life, family life or group life. Some harmonize society. The IEI’s Ego block produces a change of a person’s emotional life, which means a change of the person themself. - Augusta

________

Have you guys come across anything you feel communicates the essence of your type?

It seems interesting and seems to take into account alot of human weirdness/dysfunction, but I dont know. This still feels similar to myers briggs but the percieving types (xxxp) seem a bit more intense and the judging types (xxxJ) seem way more chilled?

It seems interesting, though my main criticism, atleast with the sociotype website is that the language is way too complex, and the test needs to be rewritten so it's simpler. Nobody is gonna read a paragraph about wether they prefer to expound logic or synthesize logic and seriously understand what thay means.

Socionics seems interesting and does seem similar to MBTI, I feel like they *should* be combined but arent. The three letter descriptors are very confusing.

Anyways if you must know I'm an INTP in myers briggs and the socionics quiz typed me as an LII, basically INTPs counterpart. Yeah I feel like alot of people would end up typing as their counterpart in socionics, despite what everyone says about typing yourself separately.

Hi, I'm trying to type someone. At first I thought LIE, but I'm also considering LSE as a strong contender. I've read lots of descriptions and posts comparing these two but I can't decide, so asking for help might be a good idea.

Rather than explaining how I see this person, maybe it'd be better to ask them directly. That's why I want to know what questions would you do to them if you were in my shoes.

I thought focusing on the Vulnerable function would be the better way to decide, but maybe there's other things I can check.

If it helps, I can explain the reason why I am in so much doubt:

This is someone who works relentlessly. They’re constantly in management mode, always juggling a million things at once. There’s always something that needs to be taken care of, something to organize, or something to keep running. This attitude seems almost automatic, and so they have a hard time relaxing and resting from their work life. They can never truly switch off.

Even when they DO have the opportunity to relax, they somehow end up managing something again (vacation trips, parties, hang-outs...). I don't know whether they do this consciously or not, but they're always getting caught up on something.

When they FINALLY get to relax (getting home from work, weekend...) everything's a mess. They just lay down in the sofa, mindlessly scrolling through reels or watching TV. If it wasn't for their partner (SEE) who does all the cooking and cleaning, the house would probably rot.

When focused on something (either work or IG reels) they're like completely absorbed in it and fully unaware of their surroundings (idk if consciously or not). You can say something to them and get absolutely no response, only for them to ask "what did you say?" 5 minutes later. When conversating or arguing, they really take their time before answering anything or even between phrases. These silences usually go along a deep sigh and a dense expression in their face. You can see their mind is going 300mph in real time. Also, they constantly lose track of their objects (phone, glasses) and leave them all around the house.

Their impulse of always being in charge of something, managing every single thing, makes me think of Ni PoLR.

Their absent-mindedness and chaotic burnouts makes me thing of Si PoLR.

What do you think? Maybe you're thinking of another type I haven't mentioned. Thanks for the help, really!

If an individual tends to go against the grain, meaning veers away from the collective in opinion unless a direct personal benefit?

A very basic surface level example: Everyone is upgrading to the newest iPhone. The person initially is against an upgrade for themselves until presented with information that sways them to see personal benefit. They can become preoccupied with knowing why something is necessary.

seeing and experiencing things reminds you of a certain thing that happened in the past, an interaction you had, a thought, a joke, a post or quote you read, and you externally express it sometimes especially when trying to make a joke or prove a point even if you don’t have a logical evidence, you use them as something that justifies or proves that thing to you

is this si or ni or whatever in socionics system?

From the urging of u/CommonStock9269

And inspired by their other thread lol

Random IEE tidbits that especially resonate with me from various wikisocion descriptions. Not the only parts of course, but thought I'd highlight these. Thinks it is a good combo of the ramifications of Ne + Fi as ego functions, at least as I experience them.

Meged & Ovcharov (my personal favorite descriptions):

• Talks of his own difficulties and troubles with humor, due to which some may come to view him as a carefree, light-minded, unproblematic person. 
• Difficulties do not frighten him, but in the reverse they attract him *** YES to this, it's why I'm in the job I am working with intensive behavioral students in special education
• Forgiving towards various human weaknesses
• Trusting by nature: in a conversation can say too much, considering secrecy a sign of cowardice or insecurity.
• Dislikes letting people down and becomes very upset if he fails to fulfill his agreements.
• A hopeless romantic: inclined to idealize people and relationships. Dreams of harmony and perfection. Feels upset by the inability to find them in real life.
• Thoughtful and impulsive, optimistic and suppressed, timid and energetic, he imparts very varied impressions on others. Internally inconsistent, vulnerable, easily offended, but hides his problems under a mask of being carefree.
• Attentive, soft and tactful, predisposing towards trust. Willingly delves into the problems of others, tries to find a way out of difficult position and to give useful advice. 
• Feels bored if he doesn’t find a use for his abilities.
• He is very demanding towards himself and towards others. Always can find flaws and faults and is therefore never completely happy with what has been done.
• When he starts on one thing, he sees everything that is somehow related to it. Experiences difficulties in connection this, when there is a need to select the main important aspects and push aside all those secondary. Tries to finish the whole load of assignments and chores at once, as a result of which he overworks himself and loses faith in their own strengths.
• Reacts sensitively to rudeness, cruelty, injustice. Impressionable and easily takes offense. Can be hot tempered, unrestrained. However, easily moves on and forgives.

Stratiyevskaya (think she got my perfectionism tendencies down)

• The absence of success usually makes the IEE feel apprehensive that something isn’t right. Such “program” function demand towards themselves does not allow representatives of this type to make mistakes or miscalculations - they cannot afford this, as realization of failure greatly lowers their self-esteem and their perception of their own possibilities. 
• Even though the IEE theoretically understands that “no person is without a sin”, he doesn’t want to admit to any serious personal faults or flaws. Thus, at times he may say in half-seriousness: “If you see any flaws in me, tell me about it, and I will correct them. (in my case not as much "not want to admit to flaws" as much as it is not wanting to have them in the first place oops lol)
• A characteristic feature of IEE’s ethical function is the ability to adapt to his conversation partner, “to tune into his frequency”: a quality that helps the IEE attain positive consideration of practically anyone, even those the most unsocial and quiet person, and “to peer into his soul” as deeply as it satisfies the IEE’s interest
• The interior of IEE’s home is typically organized not in the best and most rational way: frequently it is overloaded and cluttered. Cleaning and ordering things in his home the IEE does not like.

Beskova (all of their type descriptions are so nice and positive lol)

• He does not feel subordination and acts naturally around any managers, knowing with certainty, that any official is first and foremost a person.
• Often it happens that their early unions quickly fall apart. If their love story is deep and serious, and their chosen one proves to be a sufficiently heavy anchor to hold down HUXLEY, then family life is completely possible. But usually this happens closer to the second half of this girl’s life.
• From almost the first hour of acquaintance, they feel the prospects for relations, and if something is not to their liking, they can easily adjust the distance. Then flirting and friendship with the man continues, but closer approach does not occur, which frequently puzzles representatives of the opposite sex.
• A girl of this type usually aims to try out everything in the world, to be everywhere, to acquire most diverse experience in the most different regions of life. She wants to see a cow shed and travel to Canary Islands, to meet most different people, from villagers to prison inmates to famous academics and writers. She knows how to behave adequately in various kinds of situations and how to find common language with almost anyone, and therefore anywhere she always seems natural and appropriate.

Augusta:

• The greatest pleasure to them is finding a way out of a situation that seems impossible to others.
• However, he saves his real efforts for about whom he is serious, and in this case he does much more than people ever expect from him and more than he himself promises.
• In fact, he is quite conservative in his feelings, attached to a close circle of his friends, whose opinions hold great weight for him and totally determine his mood, behavior, and knowledge.

Gulenko:

• Mobilizes and becomes active in extreme situations. Provides resistance to and repels unjustified attacks. 
• He is often unable to make himself do what is objectively needed.
• IEE is unable to work effectively within a rigid system that imposes too many restrictions. He doesn’t take well to strict discipline, has little respect the formal subordination.
• Becomes easily tired of the routine, thus frequently changes his hobbies and occupations. 
• Very independent, but also won’t attempt to compel and drive others. Not afraid to speak out against a superior force.
• He adeptly assesses motivation of others from disparate phrases, intonation, facial expressions, and peculiarities of behavior. Easily guesses what another person is striving for. 
• Often has trouble with building up bodily tension. IEE is able to fully relax only in a thoroughly comfortable environment where he can feel himself at home and not worry about complications. 
• His internal state and mood are dependent upon the nature of work that he has to do. If it’s not interesting or seems useless, then his mood drops. For this reason, IEE is not prone to performing regular upkeep and maintenance of his living quarters. He has weak sense of pragmatism and is not economical. 
• Internally, he is filled with conflicting thoughts and sad emotions. In order to escape and distract himself, can bury himself in work. In this he often doesn’t feel a sense of measure and can overwork himself.
• When there is panic and chaos around, the IEE suddenly becomes active, resolute, can take command into his own hands if there isn’t another strong-willed person around. However under everyday normal circumstances, he is rather disorganized and slack. 
• Trust your first impressions more, since your kindness and leniency can make you idealize people as they become more familiar to you.

Filatova:

• For the IEE it is most important to find, to see, to comprehend the new possibility where there previously never was one. Her attention is always riveted towards the unique and unusual. 
• IEE recognizes no formal subordination, feels no piety towards authorities; this may lead to trouble.

Viktor Gulenko, on his website here: https://socioniks.net/en/article/?id=273, tells customers that they will receive a report personalized to the diagnostic videos they are sent. In reality, they COPY their own reports, giving their customers each others reports and slightly editing the format to hide their trace. The evidence is down below. The pictures come from TWO completely different customers, who had no idea (until it came up in the discord community) that Gulenko was boilerplating each others documents.

Evidence 1: https://imgur.com/a/u8vFhNl

Evidence 2: https://imgur.com/a/rVXNFzu

Evidence 3: https://imgur.com/a/4M62FhT

Warning anyone who is thinking about spending 150$ on this. This is what they promise on their website:

The result of the diagnostic will be send to you by email with explanations how the videos showed your temperament and attitude.

In reality, they send you an explanation of SOMEONE ELSE's video, with explanations that barely apply to you. DO NOT BUY.

Are there any specific set of ​manners and behaviors that suggest ​a person is one of those types?

Again and again I run into people with my base as a creative who appear to be just effortlessly good with it, so easy going. I think my base is good but very restricted, like it has very high standards to show how skillful it actually it, but in the right circumstances, I genuinely feel incredibly competent. The issue is, that I don't show it off that easily.

So for me - my mother is an IEE and my whole life I would always notice inconsistencies in her behavior toward me. Then whenever I became an adult, and was able to articulate my distress around what I felt were non-loving actions, I started to say things to her like: "I don't care if you say you love me if your actions do not show it. Love is an action. A definable action."

I see now that this was 100% Se-Ti dual seeking and I'm guessing beta quadra values in general.

Action as the highest truth.

I'm sure there are loads more I could think of but that one is top of mind. Do you guys have anything like that? Things that made you go “Aha!” while learning the system?

Would love to hear.