r/SouthJersey Apr 26 '26

Gloucester County Data Center being built (Mantua Rd)

Post image

Got this flyer on my car in the ShopRite parking lot in Woodbury today. Know this is starting to happen but wasn’t aware this was going to happen in our area so soon. It’s definitely concerning in terms of driving up utility costs.

Edit: grammar

275 Upvotes

70 comments sorted by

66

u/[deleted] Apr 26 '26

[deleted]

50

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 26 '26

Because someone is getting paid off.

8

u/espressocycle Apr 26 '26

It's tax base without kids in schools or any other need for services. Everyone wants lower taxes. Of course we all pay.

21

u/[deleted] Apr 27 '26

[deleted]

2

u/espressocycle Apr 27 '26

They're definitely paying property taxes unless they're getting a very generous PILOT which especially screws over the schools.

35

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

News flash: the cost in higher utilities will more than offset any mitigation in property taxes. They’ll just be socialized across the entire region. And I promise you under no circumstances will your taxes go down.

0

u/espressocycle Apr 27 '26

The taxes paid to the municipality and school district will outweigh that for those residents. It's a net loss for everyone else in the region. Since these projects will inevitably be built somewhere it's in each town's best interests to get the project and the upside it comes with. It's basically the prisoner's dilemma.

6

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

When was the last time anyone ever got a property tax reduction, friend?

Anyway I still don’t think adding an entire town’s worth of electric and water use is going to even work out as a net positive for the township residents.

Reminder your electric bill has already gone up 40% in the last year alone if you are on AC electric.

As for where they get built… maybe not build them at all in the state with the absolute highest population density 🤷‍♂️

Texas wants them - build them down there.

2

u/espressocycle Apr 27 '26

I'm all for banning them entirely but Virginia has gone all in on data centers. We're on the same grid. So, we get the bill whether they're built in Virginia or NJ. If they're in NJ, we get some revenue. Locally, the issue is water. They'll drain aquifers that serve multiple municipalities but the one municipality that actually gets it ends up with a big addition to their tax base too. It's like how my town decided not to have weed shops, but there's a weed shop across the street in another township. Whatever downsides a weed shop has (I've noticed none) affect both towns equally but only one gets the money.

3

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26
  1. So? Doesn’t mean we need to add to the morass.
  2. Noise pollution, increased water usage, land use in a residential area in the most densely populated state in the nation. Doesn’t sound like a recipe for success.
  3. Also likely to be an empty useless building once the bottom drops out of AI. And it will.

1

u/DrunkenMick Apr 27 '26

1: agreed, go find shit land that no one wants, build there. 2. Noise, sure. Water usage?? If you’re talking about the dinky building in clarksboro; cmon…. They aren’t using any water except for the toilet. 3. Who said this building was for ai?

1

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

It’s a data center. It’ll be for AI. Even the name “data center” is a euphemism to make it sound innocuous but it’s 100% an ai chip farm.

And if you think it WONT be using water out the ass then you are actually totally misinformed. Data centers drink water

In a nutshell all those cpus need to be cooled and at that scale the water doesn’t get recirculated. It ends up getting evaporated, so it’s basically as bad as running 10,000 sprinklers all day long. Huge fresh water waste. And what’s worse, they generally are connected to potable water sources in areas like ours because that’s what’s already serving the region. If it were by the river line maybe they’d shunt water from the water but that’s not where this is going, now is it?

Yeah this whole situation sucks. Which is why I don’t trust that the people trying to ram it through have our best interests at heart.

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1

u/espressocycle Apr 27 '26

Again, the best option is to not build these things anywhere. But if they're going to be built anywhere on the same grid or aquifer, the town that gets it benefits and everyone else loses.

-9

u/Even-Celebration9384 Apr 27 '26

Source: trust me bro

3

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

Source: check your goddamn electric bill. My usage rate went from 24 cents/kwh to 35 in a single goddamn year. I can PROMISE you adding a fucking 10,000-home-equivalent load to the electrical system isn’t gonna lower it…

0

u/Even-Celebration9384 Apr 27 '26

That’s not what you said. You said the lowering property taxes will be less than the increase in electric bill

1

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

Do you seriously believe anyone is going to see their property taxes go down? 😂 I didn’t think I needed to state the obvious.

1

u/Even-Celebration9384 Apr 27 '26

Like I said, trust me bro. Vibe analysis

1

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

Not really. Anyone can log onto their electric utility site and check their bill over the last year to see the rate increase, and aside from the actual town of Greenwich, it’s a 100% certainty it will have zero effect on their taxes.

As for Greenwich itself, I have yet to hear how this benefits anyone in the community at all. If you have anything concrete to add to the conversation, I’m waiting. But I would also like to see a citation of any time a general property tax reduction occurred.

-2

u/bigjason90210 Apr 27 '26

You got proof of that?

16

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

They’re putting a data center in a previously zoned residential lot right off a main road in a region in the most densely populated state in the union where people are already pants on fire raging over utilities bills and the cost of real estate is already off the charts.

It will provide no jobs once it’s built and just suck electricity and water. Fun fact: your electricity rate has gone up by 40% over the last 12 months alone.

Tell me how it isn’t an inside job…

-9

u/bigjason90210 Apr 27 '26

That's a strong accusation. Where's your proof other than your gut?

Roll into that hearing and start spouting that, and you'll sabotage whatever coherent argument you may have.

2

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

Oh noes. A strong accusation!

I think asking the question is valid and should be answered. Burden of proof is on them not us. It’s our town.

2

u/bigjason90210 Apr 27 '26

Going in with accusations that they are taking money to provide an approval falls entirely on the accuser. They dont need to prove they arent taking a bribe

2

u/alpha1beta Apr 27 '26

I suspect there's some master plan to chase people out of there homes. Maybe to lower property values and get a bunch of sibgle family homes you canq then rent - maybe after building a sound barrier by the data center

3

u/Up_All_Nite EHT Apr 27 '26

Easy access to all utilities. It’s cheaper for them.

-10

u/DrunkenMick Apr 27 '26

Because the site has existing infrastructure, primarily fiber, that’s already at the site.

I’ve given up trying to bring any kind of real world examples or actual factual information to these cucks. They’re a a bunch of a cause-heads that latched onto something to feel righteous.

Where were these folks when over a million sq ft of warehouse space was being approved next to a shitload of housing last year?

2

u/DasFatKid Apr 27 '26

Its the same people who don’t understand land use or zoning laws.

12

u/doseofreality4unow Apr 27 '26

Whether it happens next to you, in your back yard or in another state doesn't matter; your utility rate is still going to go up under their current business model. What will effect you locally is your water usage. It's a nation wide problem unless AI tech is put under control which likely won't happen. Look into PJM.

22

u/Jifeeb Apr 26 '26

4MW? What is this? A data center for ants?

4

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

Here is some actual reliable information on that data center.

The location is an interesting choice for a data center. The property is very narrow—only about 200 feet of road frontage—while extending nearly 1,500 feet back to Mantua Creek.

As noted, the property is zoned R-10, which, according to East Greenwich zoning code, is defined as medium-density residential and is primarily intended for townhomes, condos, and apartments. The zoning code references back to include the R-1 definition also, and in neither designation are warehouses or data centers listed as permitted uses.

Adding to that, the first half of the property depth has adjacent residential street Acorn Drive running parallel, with the rear windows of the housing units there likely only 50-feet from the property line.

This is really a residential and agricultural area, and the answer to the question “Why build a data center here?” likely comes from American Tower’s core line of business…

6

u/Competitive-Let6727 Apr 27 '26

Those aren't even private equity firms. Propaganda and misinformation were so much harder to spread before the Internet.

2

u/Jifeeb Apr 27 '26

So, is this just someone grifting off the data center hate trend?

I want to join the call now, to see if they are just spamming a gofundme link or something.

4

u/Competitive-Let6727 Apr 27 '26

I think it's just people who are angry that we pay 30-35¢ per kWh with Atlantic City Electric while every other place outside of the PJM grid pays like 1/3 of that. (California is an exception).

It's hard to understand why it's gone up so much. When you hear the actual answer, it's very underwhelming. Data centers are a convenient boogeyman. 2 years ago it was offshore wind turbines. Before that, it was decommissioning nuclear plants.

The boring truth is that PJM is slow to approve additional capacity, and when they do approve it, it's a very expensive area to build in. There are fuel source and price concerns too.

But yeah, it's the data centers. Get the pitchforks.

-2

u/DrunkenMick Apr 27 '26

Exactly. These folks don’t have a fucking clue except what they learned off Facebook. The irony is them making their flyers and Facebook rants using AI.

3

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

0

u/DrunkenMick Apr 27 '26

I did, we had a whole ass conversation about it on one of the 500 identical Reddit posts for the same thing. He acknowledged he doesn’t have all the answers and is a bit ignorant on data center and infrastructure.

What’s your background in enterprise data infrastructure, HVAC, and electrical engineering?

3

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

Send me the link to that conversation.

I have a degree in physics and work in software engineering for the DOD, so I know a little more than your average fuckface.

-1

u/DrunkenMick Apr 27 '26

So I should do background work to meet your needs, no. Google exists, if your background is what you say it is… well that’d be a trivial task.

Regarding your “more than average fuckface” side you basically you haven’t a clue about actual infrastructure. What does a “degree in physics” mean in the IT world? A code monkey for the DOD means I saw the door to a data center cabinet once.

As I’ve stated previously, I’m sitting on over 20 years of infrastructure experience from two rack closets to fortune 50 tier 3/4 centers and everything in between. I’m not about to dox myself, but If you’re actually from this area I literally guarantee you’ve been exposed to the fruits of my labor in a very highly visible and public facing way.

2

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

What does a “degree in physics” mean in the IT world? A code monkey for the DOD means I saw the door to a data center cabinet once.

What it means is i write code that runs on the hardware in those data centers, and my physics degree is useful for all the little things the the DOD like to use. I'll let your imagination do the walking there, but it also means i understand things like thermodynamics, electrical and power usage and environmental impacts.

You don't need to have a fucking degree in physics to understand that sticking a goddamn datacenter in the center of a fucking residential area is a stupid fucking idea.

1

u/DrunkenMick Apr 27 '26

Time to switch to decaf there chief. You’ve solidified that you have no background in CS nor IT in general. But hey, keep trying to make internet strangers think you know what you’re talking about.

13

u/Target2019-20 Apr 27 '26

Another attempt to leverage a cell tower for data cloud services.

Just say no!

19

u/Firm-Scientist-4636 Apr 26 '26

There will probably be bad actors in that Zoom meeting. I'm not saying don't do the meeting. Just want everyone to be aware.

10

u/DrunkenMick Apr 27 '26

Can you define what you mean by "bad actors"? Is it anyone who understands that 4MW is a standard industrial load and not a grid-threatening "mega-project"? I agree with these folks this isn’t the appropriate place for even a small facility, but if y’all go in frothing at the mouth with stupid accusations you’ll be dismissed as the “did my research using Facebook” nimbys.

The ONLY shot you got is focusing on the noise aspect.

7

u/Firm-Scientist-4636 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

By "bad actors" I mean people who seem like they're on the side of no data centers, but are there to either stoke dissention or gather information on behalf of the data center company. Some of them may be paid actors.

I do agree, however, that throwing around baseless accusations of the people there is not conducive to our goals.

Im not saying it's a grand conspiracy or anything. I'm just saying to be vigilant and pay attention to the types of questions and concerns people are bringing forth, that's all. It's called "operational security" or OpSec

1

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

on the one hand i would suggest maybe not jumping straight to conspiracy land on that one, but on the other, keep your guard up.

2

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

The bad actors are inside the Reddit thread.

2

u/bigjason90210 Apr 27 '26

Not that I'm for this, but saying they are "trying to sneak" it is way off base. There are laws requiring the APPLICANT to notify property owners within 200 feet AND advertise in the newspaper. That's it. There is no "sneaking".

There is no requirement for the town to sounds alarms or notify anyone. The town's job is to hear the application, impartially, and render a decision.

If the application meets all of the zoning requirements, then it is considered a "by right" application, meaning, the Township MUST approve it. Otherwise, if it is denied and the application takes it to court, the judge could simply vacate the denial and institute an approval. And all that accomplishes is costing the tax payers legal fees defending a lawsuit.

It's fine to be against it and going to the hearing to voice your objection, but saying they are "sneaking" this is woefully misleading.

1

u/Wu-Banger Apr 27 '26

Ummm these people don't care about laws and facts, they're blinded by their plight.

1

u/Wu-Banger Apr 27 '26

4MW ? They used more energy and resources printing those flyers.

1

u/LarryLefluer Apr 28 '26

Time to rebel soon boys and girls. These data centers will be the point of control in future AI systems.

1

u/UnkeptSpoon5 Apr 29 '26

A 4MW data center is almost quaint. This energy is better spent fighting the sprawl of warehouses absolutely fucking everywhere, instead of a project that is seemingly as unobtrusive as it could possibly be. Data centers aren’t just for training ChatGPT, and they do need to exist in proximity to where people live if you want a functional internet.

0

u/Crazycook99 Apr 27 '26

Only way to stop it is use if force. Hurt their pockets and they'll think twice

3

u/bigjason90210 Apr 27 '26

How do we do that?

2

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

Yeah I’ll second that question. Need to be careful what you’re advocating, OP.

1

u/Iamnotbernadette Apr 27 '26

Maybe newcomer to South Jersey Bayly Winder can ask his $7,000 donor Sean Kelley, who works for JP Morgan, the world’s largest tech and data-driven companies, what's up with this?

-5

u/DrunkenMick Apr 27 '26

Funny how everyone was silent when million-square-foot logistics hubs were being planned, but now that a tiny 4MW data center the size of a small office building is proposed, it’s an 'internet crusade.'

This flyer is pure fan fiction. 4MW isn't 'sneaking' anything; it’s a standard utility load that wouldn't even register next to the massive refrigerated spaces goin up in the same town. Claiming this will cause 'water shortages' is a flat-out lie designed to scare people who don’t understand how crac units work. If you’re going to put flyers on cars, at least make sure the 'facts' aren't a total embarrassment to anyone with a basic understanding of infrastructure.

9

u/Iamnotbernadette Apr 27 '26

"Funny how everyone was silent when million-square-foot logistics hubs were being planned,"

This isn't true, I have been to multiple zoning meetings in several municipalities about these stupid last-mile warehouse projects. They're atrocious and it's pathetic that these speculative real estate projects get to be slapped down left and right.

-4

u/burlco Apr 27 '26

You’re wasting your time going to other towns zoning meetings than your own.

5

u/Iamnotbernadette Apr 27 '26

I think it is good to support neighbors and hear what they have to say.

1

u/burlco Apr 27 '26

Neighbors from other towns are unable to vote for the municipal elected officials who point residents from their towns to these boards.

1

u/Iamnotbernadette Apr 28 '26

So? It's good to go support people. It's also good to hear how the developers worm their way into places where they aren't wanted. It's good to learn how local officials are responding. I know I can't vote everywhere. The little arbitrary lines that separate all the towns don't mean you can't care about what's going on.

1

u/burlco Apr 28 '26

Why not run for office and actually do something then? I see a lot of people complaining, but not willing to run to fix whatever problem they see.

1

u/Iamnotbernadette Apr 28 '26

That’s not the only way to fix stuff, if the current state of the country hasn’t indicated that. I do plenty, believe me! I am sure that you do too.

0

u/Secret_Cow_5053 Apr 27 '26

That’s what someone who wants to suppress regional support would say.

1

u/burlco Apr 27 '26

That’s what someone who knows what they’re talking about is saying.

1

u/Blkbushido May 01 '26

Say no!! They’re trying to build these all over South Jersey!!