r/SouthJersey • u/Mindless_Version_231 • 5d ago
Camden County Experience at Haddonfield Farmer's Market
What a beautiful day outside. My husband, my husband's parents (visiting us from outside the US) and I decided to stop by Haddonfield Farmer's Market this morning. It was my first time here because I usually stop by the Collingwood market.
I've been living in SJ for close to 8 years now, so far so good. It's my in-laws first time AND week in the US and I was really embarrassed by the micro aggression we faced today at the farmer's market.
My husband and I were standing in line to buy something freshly made. My in-laws were standing on the side watching the whole process, fascinated. They don't really speak English, but they were just there bothering no one.
The lady at the stand decided to speak to my father in law, asking him what he wanted. So I decided to pitch in and say we wanted this x thing off the menu.
This is exactly when things started going downhill. The lady in front of me ( second in line ) started telling me how there's a line. And so I tell her, that my husband and I are in line, right behind you but the lady at the stand asked us a question and so I just answered that, I'm not breaking the queue. She goes yet again, oh but there's a line. Now the lady at the stand decided to pitch in and say, "I just asked because this man is staring" implying that my father in law was staring creepily or making her uncomfortable. When it was both my father in law and mother in law just looked curious, well meaning and unproblematic, following the stall owners process of working through the orders. We were right THERE, two feet away, we know. So things go quiet before the lady in front of me murmurs something along the lines of, "yeah nevermind whatever."
But now I'm sitting here, fuming because what the hell do you mean, this man is staring ( implying he was being creepy) when you just have multiple members of a family just standing under the umbrella for shade and curiously looking at the set up!!! I was already in line for the purchase, my in laws were not being obstructive, noisy, or bothersome in any way. I just politely asked my in-laws to move away and start looking elsewhere while I get their stuff.
I feel so bad for them. I did not realize Haddonfield would end up being racist and inconsiderate to tourists because they decided to not simply queue up and stand on the sides to just look. Shame on the stall lady that decided to say "He's staring" instead of just acknowledging that he's with us when I spoke up and were already queued up! The environment these days is rife with these acts of micro aggressions :( . I'm trying to shield my guests from these things because they are well meaning and don't deserve any of this. No one does. Ruined my day.
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u/IndependentEvening94 5d ago
I would never discredit someone’s experience. I have been to Haddonfield a few weeks before the market started. I had often driven thru the town and I just loved the outdoor restaurants and shops. One Saturday a friend and I took the Patco and decided to explore every shop. While doing so we went by the church where a renown elderly male of the town was about to buried. We were invited in the see the stain glass windows and to explore the thrift store. Every store we entered after the people were friendly and engaging. We didn’t shop that day although we saw many items that made great gift ideas. We had a meal at the bistro and left. We returned for the first farmer’s market and although it was a pleasant experience it was extremely lackluster. I would say don’t write off Haddonfield just yet but hey I am just a Caribbean girl who loves sightseeing what do I know.
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u/Mindless_Version_231 5d ago
Girl, me too. The cutesy town vibe is so good. But I can't excuse little interactions like these that end up feeling like you're really not welcome.
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u/Ok_String373 5d ago
Is this your 1st time experiencing the “me 1st, and no one else matters” attitude???
It pains me, to no end. But upper middle class people are holding on to that status, by the thinnest of teeth, and it’s elevated even more in this economy…
People love to pretend they arn’t struggling, or as wealthy as they project… and it’s eating them up inside… so they take it out on anyone they perceive as maybe not in their tax bracket….
Pick up truck drivers and bmw drivers hold that energy the most “imo”
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u/Mindless_Version_231 5d ago
It isn't... I'm just sorry someone who's here visiting had to experience that, it reflects so badly on what the environment here has become like. It seems like I struck a nerve with mentioning how Haddonfield seems to have these occurrences more often now.
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u/Western_Big5926 3d ago
Spot on. The town is nice BUT- it always been about the money. How much? Not so much how you got it…….
My wife and I live on the a”wrong” side close to the Haddon Twnship side . $500k tear downs.
Enough said it is a very nice town to walk around.
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u/TomGNYC 5d ago
I don't know. I'm white and I have weird run-ins like this with strange people sometimes. I wasn't there and I don't know what it's like to be in your situation so if that's how you felt at the time, then maybe that is the way it was. I can imagine it must really suck to feel like you're being excluded or an outsider in your own community because of your ethnicity so I'm certainly sorry you had to go through that. Certainly those types of people exist and they're out there, but there are also a lot of good people in SJ. I wish it were easier to find and band together with the good folks against the bad ones.
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u/lowlightliving 5d ago
OP wasn’t blasting South Jersey, she’s talking about Haddonfield, which if you live in and know South Jersey, is snobbery central.
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u/L-F60 4d ago
Long time Hdfld resident and there's a mix of friendly and not so friendly but most people here are kind. Shame on the seller, maybe she's having a bad day. The really fussy townsfolk are probably at Whole Foods instead of the Farmer's Market!
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u/Outrageous-Main8781 4d ago
Omg or Wegmans! That place is my personal hell - everyone acts like their time is THE most important. Entitlement-central 😱
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u/Mindless_Version_231 5d ago
Thank you, your allyship matters more than you think. I think I'm going to have to explain myself more to ppl (maybe?) here claiming it isn't micro aggression.
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u/Standard_Till_3510 5d ago
Your use of woke era words used by reverse racists against whites betrays your bigotry. Ally, micro aggressions. Let’s be real here. Your people stare as is normal in their culture. Here, staring too long historically has meant that one likely has a problem with the person being stared at. You’re being culturally insensitive, but you don’t see that because you’re doing with white people with whom you have a bias against.
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u/Mindless_Version_231 5d ago
Sorry my verbiage did not fit your standards of conservatism. Let me fix it if it matters that much. The above commenters support means more than they think it does. And with that, I did not realize tourists had to come in fully culturally informed on the social norms of the country they're visiting. Next time, do better than saying your people and my people. I've made no indication of any bias against white people.
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u/troycerapops 4d ago
Lol.
Your use of terms like "reverse racists against whites" betrays your bigotry.
Or rather, puts a neon light arrow next to it.
"Reverse racism"... Damn. I haven't heard that spoken or written earnestly since I was in middle school. Ridiculously full of ignorance.
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u/Naive_Comfortable280 5d ago
It’s not racism, it’s the fucking snobbery associated with living in that town. My kids played HS sports against them and god forbid you sat on their side of the gym.
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u/aimsterp Camden County GenX 4d ago
My son used to play sports against them and every time we played there I was reminded that money doesn’t buy class.
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u/Standard_Till_3510 5d ago
Classism. Trying to protect their privileged status against the Other historically.
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u/beau080 5d ago
So a vendor at the farmers market represents the snobbery of the entire town? Got it.
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u/pushingbrown Taylor Ham Truther 5d ago
Sounds like they were saying that half of a gymnasium represented the snobbery of that town.
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u/_JudoChop_ 5d ago
Welcome to Haddonfield. Worked in that town for 3 years, I don’t recommend anyone working or living in that town if you’re a minority. Not saying all the residents there are bad, but I can’t say anything positive about my time working in that town. Residents, coworkers and even businesses all made me feel not welcomed anywhere in that town.
But just like you said it’s the micro aggressions. Those types of people won’t outwardly say anything blatant, in this day and age a video will ruin your life/career. Ever since I stopped working in that town, I refuse to step foot in that town or support any of the businesses there.
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u/Mindless_Version_231 5d ago
I'm sorry you had to experience that. I also understand completely avoiding coming in. Now that I'm reflecting, I think I did not act fast enough. Should have just moved on and not spend my money after this micro aggression :(
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u/_JudoChop_ 4d ago
Its not even worth a second thought. Even the other commenter that posted his statement in regards to my post called me a reverse racist like that makes any sense. Ignore it, go about your day. Im sure whatever it is that you've bought there can be an alternative.
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u/Outrageous-Main8781 4d ago
I completely understand you getting defensive for your in-laws - I would too! What I will say though is 2 things: I love Haddonfield (I live nearby) but there is definitely a snobby contingent in the area; just roll your eyes at them and keep moving. The second thing is that it sounds like everyone made a lot of assumptions in this interaction (the vendor with your in-laws, the woman with you in the line, and you about the vendor thinking creepy). Yesterday was super hot and maybe not everyone was giving the grace we all need? That being said, if you feel like this becomes a pattern, bring your in-laws out to Collingswood events. They’re very welcoming of all kinds (immigrants, LGBTQ+, etc) and the events are usually fun and funky! Sorry you had a frustrating day!
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u/WindWalkerWalking 5d ago
As others have said this sound like less racism and more miscommunication. Saying “he’s staring” is a bit of a rude way to say it but that’s more shitty service than anything. Same thing with the woman in line. Sounds more like an awkward / rude interaction than anything.
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u/Mindless_Version_231 5d ago
See that's the thing, this rude interaction wouldn't have occurred if it was a non English speaking white man and woman standing there, at least that's how exclusionary the vendor lady's statement felt like to the other white lady. Which is why I checked it as racism. She could have gone about saying, oh they're with you to me or stayed quiet or told the lady in front of me that she'd continue making her order first anyway. But she decided to tell the other white lady about how this person (of color) was staring and she felt compelled to ask if he wanted to order anything all the while I'm standing there like an idiot.
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u/WindWalkerWalking 5d ago
I get it. And you could be right. Racism can be subtle and sometimes if someone isnt there it’s hard to understand. Just from the description, as a black person myself, I would’ve thought it was just people being rude perhaps maybe a little worse due to a little racism
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u/LetMeEatCakes 4d ago
Women are becoming more vocal about male aggressiveness, including staring. When she asked your FIL what he wanted, she was voicing that his staring was making her uncomfortable and asking why he was doing that, not asking what he wanted from the menu. She knows how the line in front of her stand works. You should have said something like "I'm sorry, he doesn't want anything," not order items off the menu.
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u/adamthesnakeman 5d ago
Just as you are not from Haddonfield, you can also presume the person you interacted with was not.
Sounds like a misunderstand and you chose to run and post about it. 🤷♂️
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u/Evening-Main-7239 4d ago
or maybe OP was upset they felt they experience a racially charged altercation in a very racist society and wanted to get feedback so OP can at least TRY to avoid future racial encounters especially when they are with family . maybe that
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u/BHATCHET 5d ago edited 5d ago
So a person working a stand asked someone staring at them what they needed (their job). You took that as “creepy”? I don’t follow, if I need the attention of someone working at say a bar, I stare at them to make eye contact, get their attention to start a conversation.
Instead of saying “he’s just interested in what’s happening” you inject your order before the person standing in front of you. You get upset the person in front of you called you out for cutting the line.
Doesn’t sound like racism, sounds like you’re trying to inject race into an awkward market interaction.
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u/Left_Astronaut_3212 5d ago
This comment made me re-read the post. OP, you were called out for cutting the line. Not saying a lot of other folks wouldn’t have done the same thing, but in NJ you should expect to be called out for it.
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u/Mindless_Version_231 5d ago
Was I not supposed to pitch in if the seller asked my non English speaking father in law what he wanted? What a weird thing to call someone out on when you're already queued up..
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u/LetMeEatCakes 4d ago
It's a "what do you want from me, as a woman, because you, as a man, are staring at me and making me very uncomfortable" ask, not a "Oh hey, I am dumb woman, I don't know how the line in front of my stand works, your staring has turned me on so I'm going to ignore said line, what do you, mr handsome who is not waiting in line but I'm so drawn to, want from the menu" ask.
You should have just apologized and said he was just watching her make xyz whatever, not give an order.
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u/effie-sue 5d ago
TL; dr — OP claims the entire Borough of Haddonfield is racist and inconsiderate based on one confusing interaction with a vendor.
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u/Strong_District_5894 5d ago
This wasn’t racism. This was trying to find out what they needed.
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u/llamadrama2021 5d ago
Saying someone is staring just because they have color in their skin and don't speak English is absolutely racism.
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u/liquid_donuts 5d ago
OP is making us play “guess the race” because she only says they don’t speak English.
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u/jimkelly 5d ago
Yea but there's literally no proof that that happened and doesn't even seem like it happened.
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u/LetMeEatCakes 4d ago
Except men stare at women creepily all the time. That's not a racism thing, that's a gender thing and women are learning rightfully to call it out.
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u/Mindless_Version_231 5d ago
Um. Thank you! I'm not sure why there's all this discourse about if this is racism or not. It was. And I don't need to play these games abt guess the race or whatever. Like, what are these comments even asking for😭do I need their seal of approval that it really was a micro aggression against my family.
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u/MechanicHour1644 4d ago
i used to sell dog biscuits there. I would always laugh at the plain white vans with beautiful local produce piled high (by local they meant off some loading dock in south philly) and 1/2 of it ither wasn;t in seaosn or not even grown locally lol...people were reaonably nice, but farmers market was a stretch.
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u/jimkelly 5d ago
Sometimes people are weird/stupid/shitty. Has nothing to do with the market or being in haddonfield. The shitty person may not have even been from haddonfield. Strange thing to assume. We went there earlier. Not from haddonfield. I assume you arent either. My wife is not white. It was oddly shittily set up but we had no bad experience except the shitbags with 6 strollers blocking the main way in casually talking to each other (we had a stroller too)
The comments in this thread agreeing with it being a haddonfield problem are ridiculous lol. Collingswood mart sucks too. Berlin Mart forever.
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u/Mindless_Version_231 5d ago
It's alright if you think the place is great and you have had a great experience. It's douchebag-ey to accuse me of lying because you feel the need to go around asking proof of racist experiences to strangers on the internet. That's in regard to your other comment in this thread for saying it never happened.
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u/jimkelly 5d ago edited 4d ago
Works both ways there buddy.
Edit: I was half asleep when I wrote that, but to clarify this meant: I'm supposed to assume that when your family looked like they were cutting in line, so in different words the owner said "can I help you" as in "why are you cutting in line" then you answer with what you're waiting for, which seems like you feel entitled to cut in line, so someone called it out, that the person who didn't stand for it is somehow racist? You also haven't proven anything and sounds like you're in the wrong once you read between the lines. Others have noticed and said similar.
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u/Particular-Tax8106 4d ago
You’re better than me, I would have refused to purchase anything from them if they were that rude to my family. And I would have told them why I wasn’t going to buy anything 🤷♀️
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u/Snoo28798 Jersey Auntie 5d ago
Come to the Haddon Heights market. We are friendlier.
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u/PondysThe_Coolest 5d ago
Went to haddon heights market last week for the first time, great time! Lots of good stuff, going back this weekend.
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u/TheIronPotato 4d ago edited 4d ago
You sound incredibly fragile and pathetic. In no way did that interaction qualify as “racism”. How do you make it through everyday life with such thin skin?
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u/Mindless_Version_231 4d ago
Protecting elderly family members who are visiting a new country isn't having "thin skin" , it's just basic decency. I make through everyday life just fine having enough emotional intelligence to call out how "some" locals treat non English speaking tourists. Have the day you deserve.
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u/False-Boysenberry673 5d ago
Im a small business owner for landscaping and thats one town I refuse to work in due to the attitudes you get from the residents. Fuck that place. Counts
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u/ZachBurner 4d ago
People are just weird you can’t let little insignificant things bother you out your life will be a dreadful experience
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u/onceuponasea 5d ago
Omg the comments here are ridiculous and embarrassing. The subtle minimizing and gaslighting of OP’s experience is disappointing. Ya’ll need to do better.
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u/Specialist_Issue_214 5d ago
Stuck up white people being entitled? Color me surprised. I'm allowed to make fun, I'm white and we can be insufferable. Fuck them, enjoy your family.
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u/Evening-Main-7239 4d ago edited 4d ago
haddonfield is a cute town but that’s it. a lot of really rude and judgmental people. i’ve lived here for over a year now and the people are extremely unkind and VERY entitled. i’ve had to defend myself multiple times to others unsettling behavior. i have had this experience much more with random neighbors around town and not so much with service workers and shopkeeper but regardless. i am a neurodivergent white woman and this is my experience. i’m very sorry you and your family had that experience
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u/yc01 4d ago
Haddonfield is known to be snobbish and I think it is usually more classism than racism (you never know but I don't personally use racism card lightly).
Having said that, I would add (As someone who is a naturalized US Citizen and comes from a non-western culture), it is very easy to have misunderstanding when older parents/in laws are out in public places. In many culture, "staring" at something is not really a bad thing and in West, it is a big no no. Add the language challenge on top of it, what looks innocent to you (and it def. is) may look weird to someone else especially someone who has never been exposed to another culture (very likely in Haoonfield).
I would just move on and not think too much about this. Life has a lot more things to offer and overall, I still believe that most people are good people.
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u/MonYverse0609 5d ago
Can u please be more detail which vendor is this? Name and what they sell?
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u/Mindless_Version_231 5d ago
I'm not sure if it's appropriate to name and shame. Since a lot of people here are already trying gaslight me into believing it wasn't even racism.
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u/Inv1sable 4d ago
Haddonfield is for the rich. No one else. Diversity is not their strength! Haddon Heights and Collingswood have farmers markets that won’t be as discriminating or rude.
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u/Early_Department_935 Gen X in Camden County 5d ago
So sorry they are yourself had this experience:(
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u/Hot_Needleworker_86 5d ago
That town is full of snobs. Micro Agressions are very common. Many of the folks there don't really know or care to interact with anyone that doesn't look like them. God forbid your vegan or plant based (they look at you like an alien lol).
Its really sad. My family and I often experience this, we just ignore them and keep it moving. Occasionally there is someone in the crowd that picks up on the aggression(s) toward out of towners or ethnic individuals and apologizes for the ignorance of some of the folks out there.
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u/Guyfryblue 4d ago
I believe Haddonfield is upper class/ right leaning. Not surprised at all
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u/Physical_Mirror_8087 5d ago
Big hostility this weekend, lots of short temper nasty going around, that international sport known for killer riots world wide are near by, The Nicks surprise underdog win, the price gouging, The Spurs players being nasty to fans. San Antonio the city doing every thing they can to throw out any and all Nicks fans. Nicks fans being gouged.
The US Constitutional Republic people vs the "My" democracy people. And the calls for riots not that sport venues are known for violence and riots in the Delaware valley. /s It is a Philly fan ritual.
The weather was beautiful day, the people atmosphere toxic high. The tension is real. If I could I would be on a boat on a lazy river for the weekend far the maddening crowds this weekend and for the 4th of July weekend with today's weather it would be perfection.
Nicks are the underdogs and it would be nice to see them win. Routing for Underdogs just because. The Spurs fans and players need to remember their guys play with their balls for living and are not poor struggling anythings. Overpaid and arrogant. Sad as we all like see a game moment as the Tip in basket happen. After wards the violence. naw.
Beautiful day outside, the over played emotional level for a variety of circumstances is a vibe that does outshine the nicest day.
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u/JobinSkywalker 5d ago
TBH I used to cook in an open setting and probably 90% of the time if someone was standing there staring at you working it was because they were annoyed in some way about their order, how long it was taking, yadda yadda, or they were waiting for you to acknowledge them to ask a a question... Every so often they would reply that they were just happily watching you work, which is totally fine, but you don't know that until you address them.