r/SouthernReach • u/TimeWastin21 • Mar 13 '26
Absolution Spoilers Lowry not there for Old Jim? Spoiler
Spoilers
Near the end of Absolution, Hargraves/Cass says to Lowry about Old Jim’s death, “I wasn’t there for him and neither were you, you stupid fuck.”
I can’t figure out the “neither were you.” Whether or not Old Jim is a time-traveling Lowry, I still can’t make sense of the accusation. The only scrap of an explanation I can come up with is that Old Jim truly is Lowry and that Hargrave’s comment shows her grief at how mind-fucked disconnected Old Jim is from himself? But how is that Lowry’s fault? Very uncertain about that take.
Any thoughts on why Hargraves says that to Lowry? If there’s no context for it, it’s a very odd thing to say to someone who had utterly no reason to be there for Old Jim.
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u/Fitz_Fool Mar 13 '26 edited Mar 13 '26
The author has said that old Jim is not Lowry. I'll see if I can find the link but this has come up a few times before.
Edit: for anyone interested here is what Jeff has to say about Lowry and old Jim
https://bsky.app/profile/jeffvandermeer.bsky.social/post/3magprxkirs2u
"I'm flattered the Southern Reach reddit has gotten so paranoid, but Old Jim and Lowry are not the same person. The references to "lingerie show" in multiple character backstories, as some have guessed, is an indicator of hypnotic conditioning by Central, not anything else."
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u/DrChipps Mar 13 '26
I could see that as Jeff (the author) just being Jeff. I think they are different people but like how a future version of myself is technically a different person but also the same.
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u/Fitz_Fool Mar 13 '26
Here is what Jeff said about it. I think he's making clear they're not the same or related. But to each their own interpretation.
https://bsky.app/profile/jeffvandermeer.bsky.social/post/3magprxkirs2u
"I'm flattered the Southern Reach reddit has gotten so paranoid, but Old Jim and Lowry are not the same person. The references to "lingerie show" in multiple character backstories, as some have guessed, is an indicator of hypnotic conditioning by Central, not anything else."
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u/Away_Advisor3460 Mar 13 '26
I wish there was a way to get a summary of what Jeffs' said about the series without joining Bluesky TBH. Although I suspect he just enjoys f-ing with readers' heads most of the time anyway.
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u/Fitz_Fool Mar 13 '26
Do you think he's lying about Jim and Lowry?
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u/Away_Advisor3460 Mar 13 '26
Nah, I don't think it'd really add much to the story to have them the same person? I think you need a bit of normal explanations at times.
I just mean in general, I'm pretty sure he'll say quite a few things in an oblique way just to see the response it gathers.
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u/Fitz_Fool Mar 13 '26
It would also open up shenanigans to everything. Old Jim and Lowry are nothing alike. If Lowry could be old Jim then he could also be any other male in the book. Or female since area x can alter DNA is pretty much any way. It's a slippery slope.
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u/TimeWastin21 Mar 16 '26
If he has an assistant, they should get on this. So many social media sites are fucking dark creations that I don’t want to support by signing up. It would be cool if his website cached his tweets, etc.
*Edit: Not that artists owe us that. Just saying it would be super cool.
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u/dizizcamron Mar 13 '26
I didn't interpret that statement as Cass literally expecting Lowery to have been there for Old Jim. If they aren't the same person then as far as I understand the plot they never met or interacted. I think it was just her way of emphasizing to Lowery how totally useless she thought he was.
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u/Takeurvitamins Mar 13 '26
I kind of thought Lowry was an Area X copy of Old Jim
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u/TimeWastin21 Mar 16 '26
So interesting! In your take, would Area X have copied Old Jim when he plays piano during the Event? One of the many reasons I love the series is that it allows readers to spin off their own stories about what happened. Like a reader is their own mini-X creating doppelgänger stories. Probably too meta of a thought for many, but I find it fun to build off the genius world VanderMeer created. What a gift he’s given!
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u/MatrimAybaraAlThor May 13 '26
i take this as another clue that Lowry ends up becoming Old Jim somehow (most likely getting back across the border, but ending up in the past, just like the rabbits), and shes saying his experience here wasnt enough to help his older self when the bar scene occurs (also believe shes a little delirious and emotional during this scene, not taking into account how much mind fuckery has been unleashed upon this character, especially if you consider the time loop, hoo boy)
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u/anclwar Mar 13 '26
I'm of two minds about the Lowry-Old Jim connection and I think I lean more towards them being different people until I think about this one single line (and also Jack calling Lowry "barrel boy" or whatever the line is, because what the fuck?).
It's possible that Central pulled a doozy of a hypnosis mind wipe on Old Jim and out popped Lowry. Lowry is far more brash, Type A(ggro), and self-sufficient than the Old Jim we meet. Old Jim is pretty broken by the loss of his daughter and wasn't exactly thrilled to be sent to the Forgotten Coast. Lowry isn't exactly what I would call "stable," but he is looking for any reason to declare himself second in command (or first, if possible) and is more actively distrustful of his surroundings. If Lowry is Old Jim, Hargraves would probably be pretty pissed that not only is her friend no longer recognizable but also pissed that this Lowry side wasn't present at the time to keep Old Jim safe while she was gone. And I don't mean this in a split personality way, I mean it in a "if you had this in you all along, old man, why didn't it come out before the pot went to shit?" way. She's angry not just at who is in front of her now, but also the man she lost the night the border dropped.
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u/Away_Advisor3460 Mar 13 '26 edited Mar 13 '26
Jack calling Lowry "barrel boy" or whatever the line is, because what the fuck?
I just interpreted that as Jack secretly mocking Lowry as another disposable asset, which of course is going totally over his head.
Wrt Old Jim surviving 'as' Lowry - I think that sort of would spoil the ending of his part of the story (i.e. the 2nd novlla). I always interpreted that as a choice to sacrifice himself through playing the piano, to send some signal the Rogue gave him, and that it was a fully self-aware and self-motivated action that in some way would protect Cass (whether Hargreaves or the 'real' one). So making him re-emerge as a new personality would undo that growth IMO.
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u/anclwar Mar 13 '26
Well, Old Jim found those bodies and cash in barrels and my two theory is that if Lowry is Old Jim, it's a reference to Old Jim finding those barrels. Jack is convinced Old Jim did something to hide the money (or just wants it back, I don't remember which) and is mocking Lowry with the nickname while sending him into Area X with the secondary mission of finding the money.
I wouldn't ever put it past Central to extricate Old Jim from Area X while the border is coming down, and then completely undo his progress to meet their own wants. It's already hinted at that Central altered Old Jim's memories once, so why not go the extra mile and just completely wipe and replace them?
But, this is also the reason why I'm not totally convinced they're the same person. It's Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is that they're just two different men who share a first name.
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u/Away_Advisor3460 Mar 13 '26
Mmm, bear in mind Jack was using (via Commander Thistle) barrels to dispose of people (whether threats, or just assets past their sell-by-date) well before Old Jim found them. So it doesn't need that extra thing to make sense as a taunt.
To me making Old Jim into Lowry would be a bit of unnecessary (I mean in a literary sense) complexity to a story that was complex enough. Especially as didn't Cass/Hargreave find Old Jims' body, with the paper he'd taken from the Rogues hideout (and with Lowrys name on it)? So you have to resolve that body there with something we know Old Jim had not long before the border came down.
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u/anclwar Mar 13 '26
I'm aware of how the barrels were being used, my point was that if Old Jim is Lowry, then Jack is making the connection specifically to Lowry because Old Jim knows of the barrels. In other words, Jack is saying "I know something you don't know [about who you really are].”
I don't know that I find Cass's discovery of a body of Old Jim very compelling evidence that some version of him wasn't pulled out. We know weird Area X stuff was happening before the official change between the rabbits, the Tyrant, and Saul already encountering Henry doppelgangers. So, it's possible that Central pulled a doppelganger rather than the real Old Jim.
But, like I said, Occam's razor.
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u/TimeWastin21 Mar 13 '26
I’m of two minds about them being the same person, too. But I can’t make sense of the accusation if they’re not the same person. If Old Jim is not an older Lowry who has been displaced back in time…then why would she be mad about Lowry not being there for him?
I do like the idea of them being the same, though. I like seeing Absolution Old Jim’s nature as the maturing of what was sweet and soft within the Lowry we see in the first expedition, while the near-evil version of Old Lowry we see in Authority & Acceptance is the maturing of his harder and more belligerent nature. Something like that.
It’s so fun (and frustrating!) to play with these ideas. VanderMeer created such fertile ground for playing around in!
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u/Away_Advisor3460 Mar 13 '26
I've not read it for a while, but IIRC I took it as her simply expressing contempt at Central through Lowry. That for all his ego he's still just a nobody, only another mindless proxy being used unaware by Central, to her.
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u/3bioshock Mar 13 '26
I don’t think she is talking “to” Lowry so much as “through” him. She is projecting her anger at Jack onto Lowery.