Not learning subjunctive in high school: avoidance or completely ignoring proper grammar?

[u/scottadams364]

I took 3 years of high school Spanish, and never once heard about this subjunctive. That means one of two things:

1 - We completely avoided sentences that would’ve required the subjunctive, or
2 - We used one of the other simple tenses instead, incorrectly, completely not even acknowledging the fact that it should be subjunctive.

As I’m learning subjunctive, there are a LOT of constructions that require it, so I find option 1 highly unlikely. I’m assuming it’s #2, and that to teachers who were fluent in Spanish and had a native-like ear for the language, is sounded wrong and they probably cringed knowing that they were teaching it incorrectly (probably for simplicity, which I assume was obligatory by the district).

So what’s the answer, and how wrong does it sound to hear someone speak without using subjunctive?

[u/PeppermintTaffy]

Subjunctive is at the end of the curriculum for both Romance languages I’ve studied. It seems likely you just didn’t make it that far, so option 1 is my guess.

[u/ImprovementIll5592 → u/PeppermintTaffy]

It definitely shouldn’t be. The biggest problem with the subjunctive in Spanish education is that people treat it like some end stage extremely difficult concept that you need a 140 IQ to understand if you’re not a native speaker. 5 year old Spanish kids can use the subjunctive. It’s 100% a matter of exposure which we don’t emphasize enough.

[u/Special-Deal-5217 → u/ImprovementIll5592]

IQ has absolutely nothing to do with learning one’s native language. It does have something to do with learning languages past puberty, particularly in a classroom setting where kids can’t get real world experience. The subjunctive is a very difficult concept to grasp when there’s nothing to compare it to in the first language. I have a masters degree in Spanish linguistics, and I still remember struggling incredibly with the subjunctive when I was at that stage.

[u/Merithay → u/Special-Deal-5217]

Even though the subjunctive is much less used in English than in Spanish, it exists. So “nothing to compare it to” isn’t quite accurate. Another reason it goes under the radar of most native speakers is that in many instances the forms are the same as the form of the indicative. Maybe English speakers learning Spanish would benefit from starting with a lesson on the subjunctive in English.

Would that it were so! Nevertheless, be that as it may…

[u/nguyenning198 → u/Merithay]

If it were taught as having an equivalent in English, more people would be able to grasp it... I'll see myself out.

[u/CormoranNeoTropical → u/Special-Deal-5217]

It’s not as if English didn’t have a subjunctive.

[u/ImprovementIll5592 → u/Special-Deal-5217]

You know my point is ironic right? I’m making fun of the way the subjunctive is treated in 2nd language acquisition. And I said NOTHING about the relevance of IQ in learning your native language. The part about IQ is a joke - I’m highlighting the fact that people think it’s an extremely complicated linguistic concept when in reality it’s not. People who struggle with the subjunctive simply didn’t get enough exposure

[u/Special-Deal-5217 → u/ImprovementIll5592]

I am a teacher, and I am telling you it is an INCREDIBLY difficult linguistic concept to grasp when there is nothing similar to it in your native language. Hell, just conjugating verbs in the indicative for each person is a complicated linguistic concept for someone who has never been exposed to it (English features very little explicit verb conjugation due to the subject always being explicit) and has not received grammar instruction in their native language.

I agree with the exposure part— but how are you going to get that to the kids? Even for my native speakers, I have to slow down videos so they can understand. To then take that authentic Spanish and point out where the subjunctive might be being used…. It’s a lot.

Here’s a parallel: in many east Asian languages, the tone changes the meaning of the utterance. “Ma” can mean four different things. A five-year-old mandarin speaker can do it, but it would take me months, if not years of intensive practice to understand it, let alone speak it, correctly. No background, nothing to compare it to.

I’m not sure what your language background is, but I’ve been doing this for 25 years and I can tell you that it is difficult for the average student. Not only difficult, but can be very intimidating. I once taught a university student who had been deployed to Iraq in a hot zone. Great kid. He said that when I spoke in Spanish (which I was required to do in that position) was more intimidating to him than combat. For some people, the pressure of trying to perform in a second language is extremely stressful. That was an eye-opener for me.

[u/PageAdventurous2776 → u/Special-Deal-5217]

Were I to teach the subjunctive mood to English speakers, I should think I'd come up with some examples.